Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

[Guest guest]

re: Different Strokes

Why would people write on the list if they don't want suggestions? How can

someone give a suggestion that doesn't fit with their own viewpoint.

I don't understand your point. If you are referring to me, then be direct. All

comments are offers of help, not criticisms or attempts to convince.

Re Ron, I will continue to give him credit where he is due credit. I will not

act as if I have discovered things that he has engineered. So I don't get your

point here either. The closest to flaming was people saying that they didn't

want to hear about " Ron " . Well, who shall I say helped me when someone helped

me?

Does he really need to be " he whose name cannot be mentioned. "

Very puzzled re your message. Very diplomatic, but don't understand what you

mean precisely. Whoever is writing you private E-mails is already by-passing

the group and doing what we call " splitting " . How about asking them to share

their concerns in public, on-line.

I received a private E-mail from one of list members telling me that " my

emotions were clouding my thinking " . Well, da! That's a surprise. I simply

asked her not to write me privately anymore and to share her issues on the group

site.

This sounds too similar to the nonsense that was going on with the L-C diabetes

list.

Very scary.

Please don't get triangulated (put in the middle).

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-09 13:25:03 EST, you write:

<<

Actually insulin is a very short lived hormone. It's half life is about

9 minutes. Most mainstream docs in the diabetes field feel that low carb

diets are

a fad. Yes, you get lower sugars with them, but the long term results with

weight loss are disappointing. The cardiovascular safety of the diet is

questionable. >>

Well, as a non-insulin-resistant, not-overweight type 1 I'm not concerned

with weight loss...my whole focus is keeping BGs down. And low carbing does

it for me. The lower the carbs I eat, the less insulin I need. (sometimes as

liittle as 2 units per meal, but without it it'd be in trouble). My

cardiovascular system is Just Fine, thank you. My doc verified this at

yesterday's quarterly appointment. Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-09 13:40:14 EST, you write:

<< I really think it is all Dave's fault. Period.

>>

Please, let us Not Point Fingers. That is Nonproductive. :-) Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-09 13:48:45 EST, you write:

<< Hang in there Doc, as you know Adult Children always feel as if they are

at fault.

>>

another diabetes list I belong to got into a really silly thing about

broccoli. And another one got into a silly thing about whipped cream (that

was Really, Really Silly and also slightly lacivious, which was Fun).

interesting that the Silly Stuff had to do with food...

What we need here right now is something silly! :-) Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-09 14:00:55 EST, you write:

<<

She has no serious complications other than cold feet, and a heart

problem that she's had since her 40's. She was only diagnosed t2 when

she was 78.

Maybe that's where I picked up my compassion for quality of life.

>>

Well, good for her, Dave, that's wonderful. ...my mom is going to be 97 in

May...she doesn't have diabetes..outside of hearing and balance loss she's in

remarkable shape...she doesn't even wear glasses! (and I've been wearing

them since I was 5)...am I jealous? For sure. But the indicators are that

if she's 97 and doing fine, I've got another good 30 years ahead of me too.

And since I have diabetes, I want to make sure I get to 97 with all my parts

if at all possible. Vicki

[Guest guest]

One of the most painful lessons I ever learned was that you can't make

someone do the right thing.

How awful for you all.

Robin G.

>From: resmith315@...

>Reply-To: diabetes_int

>To: diabetes_int

>Subject: Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:40:05 EST

>

>I don't know how to wade into this but I think this story might help. My

>mother, a diabetic type 2 with blood pressure problems, arthritis, and

>heart

>disease took my dd to the movies on her 5th birthday. My mother died at

>the

>movies.....

>She lived with me and I am a RN. I know the diet....I know the meds...I

>know

>the exercise routine....but she was an adult. She put things in her mouth

>that I would not have let her have....but she was an adult. I would never

>belittle her for a moment about her choices although I did develop " the

>look "

>when it was really bad. I informed her of the need to check her blood

>sugar

>frequently...which she did not. I gave her information on her meds and how

>to take them properly...which she did. I talked about the value of

>exercise....which she failed to understand on any level.

>But she made her choices....the problem I have is that I suffer the

>consquences of those choices...and that makes me wish I could have her back

>again and be more forceful with my teaching....

>She was a wonderful woman....volunteer of the year at Salvation Army....she

>was 63.

>

>I don't look at the posts as being mean....just a bunch of people who care

>about others who have this disease. We can all respect the choices that

>each of us have made....and worry about the consquences at the same

>time....

>I appreciate my dh who has develped " the look " when I am straying from the

>right choce made for me. I am not offended by his concern. And at times I

>do explain to him that I am making this particular choice with full

>knowledge

>of the consquences and this is how I am going to remedy that. ( more

>treadmill time!! )

>I may be rambling here.....sorry in advance if I have the wrong idea or

>have

>offended anyone

>ressy

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

[Guest guest]

I have thought for a long time that the opinions expressed by the regular

posters on this list is like preaching to the choir. For the most part I would

guess that this group is probably one of the best controlled groups of diabetics

in the country no matter what method is used. I have no use for diets, much less

a low carb diet, and ever time someone new introduces him/her self and wants

advise, I hit the delete key because I can almost recite from memory what each

of the responses will be and who they are from. That doesn't mean I object to

the proselytizing. On the contrary it helps a number of people and they have a

right to preach.I just think it's the wrong audience and at times becomes a bit

of an overkill.

Respectfully,

O'Neil

RC Glaze wrote:

> One of the most painful lessons I ever learned was that you can't make

> someone do the right thing.

>

> How awful for you all.

>

> Robin G.

>

> >From: resmith315@...

> >Reply-To: diabetes_int

> >To: diabetes_int

> >Subject: Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

> >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 13:40:05 EST

> >

> >I don't know how to wade into this but I think this story might help. My

> >mother, a diabetic type 2 with blood pressure problems, arthritis, and

> >heart

> >disease took my dd to the movies on her 5th birthday. My mother died at

> >the

> >movies.....

> >She lived with me and I am a RN. I know the diet....I know the meds...I

> >know

> >the exercise routine....but she was an adult. She put things in her mouth

> >that I would not have let her have....but she was an adult. I would never

> >belittle her for a moment about her choices although I did develop " the

> >look "

> >when it was really bad. I informed her of the need to check her blood

> >sugar

> >frequently...which she did not. I gave her information on her meds and how

> >to take them properly...which she did. I talked about the value of

> >exercise....which she failed to understand on any level.

> >But she made her choices....the problem I have is that I suffer the

> >consquences of those choices...and that makes me wish I could have her back

> >again and be more forceful with my teaching....

> >She was a wonderful woman....volunteer of the year at Salvation Army....she

> >was 63.

> >

> >I don't look at the posts as being mean....just a bunch of people who care

> >about others who have this disease. We can all respect the choices that

> >each of us have made....and worry about the consquences at the same

> >time....

> >I appreciate my dh who has develped " the look " when I am straying from the

> >right choce made for me. I am not offended by his concern. And at times I

> >do explain to him that I am making this particular choice with full

> >knowledge

> >of the consquences and this is how I am going to remedy that. ( more

> >treadmill time!! )

> >I may be rambling here.....sorry in advance if I have the wrong idea or

> >have

> >offended anyone

> >ressy

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

>

>

> Public website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

> Post message: diabetes_integroups

> Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribeegroups

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> List owner: diabetes_int-owneregroups

>

> URL: /group/diabetes_int

[Guest guest]

resmith315@... wrote:

> I may be rambling here.....sorry in advance if I have the wrong idea or have

> offended anyone

> ressy

Ressy,

I'm real sorry about your Mom, but sometimes there is nothing we can do.

My Mom is 89 (90 in July). She's type 2, not " fat " , but overweight, and

her only medication is glipizide, no testing of any sort.

I take her shopping every Wed., and I see her sneaking the box of

doughnuts, the cornbread muffins that she loves, the box of cookies,

etc, and that's every week. So what should I do? She sure is not going

to listen to me as she lives by her self. Should I tell her not to take

a sulf, or to get a meter and test?

She can't even work an answering machine let alone a vcr.

She has no serious complications other than cold feet, and a heart

problem that she's had since her 40's. She was only diagnosed t2 when

she was 78.

Maybe that's where I picked up my compassion for quality of life.

--

Dave - 1:52:23 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.

--

Visit my HomePage:

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[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

In a message dated 01-02-09 13:48:45 EST, you write:

<< Hang in there Doc, as you know Adult Children always feel as if they are

at fault.

>>

another diabetes list I belong to got into a really silly thing about

broccoli. And another one got into a silly thing about whipped cream (that

was Really, Really Silly and also slightly lacivious, which was Fun).

interesting that the Silly Stuff had to do with food...

What we need here right now is something silly! :-) Vicki

I'm on that list too, the one about the broccoli. that was a little different,

one person was joking about not liking broccoli, and a couple stuffed shirts on

the lists, some new members didn't realize one can joke about things, they were

horrified a DR, would say bad things about broccoli not realizing it was just

humor, but it does show even with the smilies in the post, sometimes ones

intentions just don't come across in email.

carol

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Dave -

My grandma is 96, type 2, diagnosed at something like 85. She doesn't like

taking pills, would never consider insulin, and during her most recent

hospitalization for pneumonia her BGs were running between 200 and 400.

She's old. She knows it, and it is more important to her to enjoy the time

she has left than to diet to prevent complications. She's fully in touch

with reality, and it is her choice to indulge her sweet tooth. Should I

feel guilty about helping her do it?

I had to think about that, and my conclusion was that I should help her

enjoy the rest of her life. She's living in a nursing home now because she

needs care just from age-related problems and weakness. Her doctor abstains

from alcohol and thinks my grandmother should too. And of course they want

to feed her a proper diabetic diet. She got really depressed by all of it.

About the only enjoyment she has now is visits from family members and

eating things she likes. It may kill her faster, but it really is her

choice to make. Since she can't get around to get things, my sister and I

and other relatives do bring her treats. I do it out of respect for her

need to still be in control of some aspect of her life.

I have a much harder time thinking of it that way with younger people.

Anne

> Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

>

>

>

>

> resmith315@... wrote:

>

> > I may be rambling here.....sorry in advance if I have the wrong

> idea or have

> > offended anyone

> > ressy

>

> Ressy,

>

> I'm real sorry about your Mom, but sometimes there is nothing we can do.

> My Mom is 89 (90 in July). She's type 2, not " fat " , but overweight, and

> her only medication is glipizide, no testing of any sort.

>

> I take her shopping every Wed., and I see her sneaking the box of

> doughnuts, the cornbread muffins that she loves, the box of cookies,

> etc, and that's every week. So what should I do? She sure is not going

> to listen to me as she lives by her self. Should I tell her not to take

> a sulf, or to get a meter and test?

>

> She can't even work an answering machine let alone a vcr.

>

> She has no serious complications other than cold feet, and a heart

> problem that she's had since her 40's. She was only diagnosed t2 when

> she was 78.

>

> Maybe that's where I picked up my compassion for quality of life.

>

> --

> Dave - 1:52:23 PM

> T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

> -

> Davors Daily Aphorism:

> I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.

> --

> Visit my HomePage:

> http://dorcutt.homepage.com

>

>

> Public website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

> Post message: diabetes_integroups

> Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribeegroups

> Unsubscribe: diabetes_int-unsubscribeegroups

> List owner: diabetes_int-owneregroups

>

> URL: /group/diabetes_int

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 01-02-09 14:00:55 EST, you write:

>

> <<

> She has no serious complications other than cold feet, and a heart

> problem that she's had since her 40's. She was only diagnosed t2 when

> she was 78.

>

> Maybe that's where I picked up my compassion for quality of life.

> >>

>

> Well, good for her, Dave, that's wonderful. ...my mom is going to be 97 in

> May...she doesn't have diabetes..outside of hearing and balance loss she's in

> remarkable shape...she doesn't even wear glasses! (and I've been wearing

> them since I was 5)...am I jealous? For sure. But the indicators are that

> if she's 97 and doing fine, I've got another good 30 years ahead of me too.

> And since I have diabetes, I want to make sure I get to 97 with all my parts

> if at all possible. Vicki

That's great. 97 is good, and you're lucky to have the longevity genes.

--

Dave - 8:02:29 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

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--

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[Guest guest]

whimsy2@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 01-02-09 13:40:14 EST, you write:

>

> << I really think it is all Dave's fault. Period.

> >>

> Please, let us Not Point Fingers. That is Nonproductive. :-) Vicki

Hey, I admit it..

--

Dave - 8:07:29 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

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[Guest guest]

Anne wrote:

>

> Dave -

>

> My grandma is 96, type 2, diagnosed at something like 85. She doesn't like

> taking pills, would never consider insulin, and during her most recent

> hospitalization for pneumonia her BGs were running between 200 and 400.

> She's old. She knows it, and it is more important to her to enjoy the time

> she has left than to diet to prevent complications. She's fully in touch

> with reality, and it is her choice to indulge her sweet tooth. Should I

> feel guilty about helping her do it?

Not a bit.

>

> I had to think about that, and my conclusion was that I should help her

> enjoy the rest of her life. She's living in a nursing home now because she

> needs care just from age-related problems and weakness. Her doctor abstains

> from alcohol and thinks my grandmother should too. And of course they want

> to feed her a proper diabetic diet. She got really depressed by all of it.

I would also, a nursing home would be bad enough.

> About the only enjoyment she has now is visits from family members and

> eating things she likes. It may kill her faster, but it really is her

> choice to make. Since she can't get around to get things, my sister and I

> and other relatives do bring her treats. I do it out of respect for her

> need to still be in control of some aspect of her life.

That, along with your visits must make her feel quite special. I'm sure

she really appreciates her Grandaughters. So many get no visits at all.

>

> I have a much harder time thinking of it that way with younger people.

And rightfully so. They have a lifetime ahead.

>

> Anne

>

> > Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > resmith315@... wrote:

> >

> > > I may be rambling here.....sorry in advance if I have the wrong

> > idea or have

> > > offended anyone

> > > ressy

> >

> > Ressy,

> >

> > I'm real sorry about your Mom, but sometimes there is nothing we can do.

> > My Mom is 89 (90 in July). She's type 2, not " fat " , but overweight, and

> > her only medication is glipizide, no testing of any sort.

> >

> > I take her shopping every Wed., and I see her sneaking the box of

> > doughnuts, the cornbread muffins that she loves, the box of cookies,

> > etc, and that's every week. So what should I do? She sure is not going

> > to listen to me as she lives by her self. Should I tell her not to take

> > a sulf, or to get a meter and test?

> >

> > She can't even work an answering machine let alone a vcr.

> >

> > She has no serious complications other than cold feet, and a heart

> > problem that she's had since her 40's. She was only diagnosed t2 when

> > she was 78.

> >

> > Maybe that's where I picked up my compassion for quality of life.

> >

> > --

> > Dave - 1:52:23 PM

> > T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

> > -

> > Davors Daily Aphorism:

> > I do not fear computers. I fear the lack of them.

> > --

> > Visit my HomePage:

> > http://dorcutt.homepage.com

> >

> >

> > Public website for Diabetes International:

> > http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

> >

> > Post message: diabetes_integroups

> > Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribeegroups

> > Unsubscribe: diabetes_int-unsubscribeegroups

> > List owner: diabetes_int-owneregroups

> >

> > URL: /group/diabetes_int

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> Public website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

> Post message: diabetes_integroups

> Subscribe: diabetes_int-subscribeegroups

> Unsubscribe: diabetes_int-unsubscribeegroups

> List owner: diabetes_int-owneregroups

>

> URL: /group/diabetes_int

--

Dave - 8:42:30 PM

T2 - 8/98 Glucophage, NPH

-

Davors Daily Aphorism:

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--

Visit my HomePage:

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[Guest guest]

Life goes on?? <g>

Re: Different Strokes for Different Folks

Okay. Dave has admitted his guilt; the list is fixed and now what???

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/09/2001 6:37:47 PM Central Standard Time,

whimsy2@... writes:

<<

What we need here right now is something silly! :-) Vicki

>>

Ok can you all see me....I am doing the noodle dance....No look to your

right...oh wait I stepped on the dog....Ok see me dance......

ressy

who can be very silly

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/09/2001 11:38:40 PM Central Standard Time,

drmarion12@... writes:

<<

Okay. Dave has admitted his guilt; the list is fixed and now what???

>>

I am dancing...does this count as exercise....can I now go and eat the

chocolate chips in the pantry...BTW the dog is staying far away from me

ressy

[Guest guest]

Yes and remember some of those reading and writing ( I write for Gabe) have

NO BETA CELLS to smooth out the problems and add a little extra insulin. You

folks with beta cells simply have more choices.

No one will convince me that my son hasn't already been damaged by diabetes

as he cannot digest protein properly (the vagus nerve controls stomach and

etc) and he has diabete less than two years.

n

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/10/2001 7:21:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,

fencible@... writes:

>

> It's really not bad with a dollop of cool whip on it. I used to make the

> box kind up, but after finding some in the refrig after a period of

> time, I've changed over to the pre-made and they are pretty good. Good

> for a quick snack for me anyway.

>

Hey, sugar free jello is one of my favorite snacks :-)

Danna

[Guest guest]

RE: Type I and Type II

Yes, Susie. A quarter of unit of insulin is about 30-40 b.g. points for

Gabe. So I darn well better count every carb that the insulin is covering.

30-40 points is okay if your b.g. is ending up at 110 but if it is heading

down towards 75, it is major crisis time.

So count we do! I am about to teach Gabe about Ron's system of glucose gram

conversion and insulin dosing so that the DIABOLICAL brat can do some of the

work himself. He doesn't like when the calculations slow down his " service "

of his meals. So today I told him that it is his turn to learn to calculate

the grams glucose in the meal and the correct insulin dose (actually Ron gave

me a cheat sheet with the dose for each level of glucose, but I am not going

to tell Gabe that; I will use it to check his work. Kind of like the answers

in the back of the math book.)

n

[Guest guest]

Ressy...take some Ritalin, girl....you are crazy....look what a broken list

does to people.

n

[Guest guest]

Dave O. wrote:

<< Aside from your tris (which actually happened when you first went at this

btw), how does your regimen stack up against mine? >>

Dave, I agree that the way you're managing your diabetes is the only

sustainable method for *you.* I was only responding to Teri's post, which

used you as an example. My point was the Subject line: different strokes

for different folks. Others in the group, with a different mindset, will

point out that control could be even better, on fewer meds, with smaller

carbohydrate intake. Are they so wrong?

Just for the record, Dave, four years passed from the time of diagnosis

until my triglycerides reached 170. They were 274 in '98 and 259 in '99. (I

don't have my test results for '96 and '97.)

I think the complainer(s) are newly diagnosed and don't yet understand the

horrors awaiting some who don't take this disease seriously. We try to reach

out to them. The tragedy of diabetes is that at first, the deterioration is

invisible. One day we go in for an eye exam or for bloodwork and discover

something is amiss. Sometimes these problems resolve - but there's no

guarantee.

Teri tells me her carb intake is probably less than 100 grams, which to *me*

puts her in the low-carb category (since that's a third of U.S. average).

Yet she seems to regard herself as someone eating *high*-carb. She doesn't

count carbs, but uses an exchange system (15 grams carbs = 1 exchange) which

is still a way to count carbs.

Teri said one of the complaints she received was that in the breakfast

thread, all anyone talked about was carbs. If this were a recipe group,

Seasonal Affective Disorder group, etc., we'd probably be talking about

other things. But this is a diabetes group, the hallmark of which is

difficulty managing carbs. Some handle them by exercise; some with pills;

some focus on portion control and lose substantial weight. And all type 1's

use insulin. But how can we have a diabetes group that doesn't discuss

carbs?

Teri keeps saying there are people in the group who are doing just fine with

various approaches. admitted that he never could eat all the carbs he

strived for. He exercised 1-1/2 hours a day, still got 170-180 readings. He

found a German authority that said as long as his postprandial readings

didn't last for more than 5 hours, he was fine. The one person in our group

that I know of who eats high-carb and gets HbA1c's in the 4.7 range without

meds - just weight loss and regular walking - is Edwin. I haven't heard from

him in awhile. I hope he's still doing well and out there, lurking. If there

are other type 2's who are doing great on high-carb without meds, I'd love

for them to step forward. (I made this request a few weeks ago. So far, no

response.)

There are better methods of treating diabetes. That's not my opinion, but

comes from the experts. Diet, exercise and weight loss are supposed to be

our primary treatment methods, with pills and/or insulin resorted to only if

those fail. (Type 1's must of course use insulin.) To say that every

treatment method for diabetes is equally valid is to misrepresent the

recommendations of experts. Most of us don't have perfect control. Most of

us cheat some - and pay the price. That doesn't mean we should lose sight of

what optimal control consists of.

Susie (yeah - I ended it with a preposition)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 02/10/2001 1:55:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,

drmarion12@... writes:

> Ressy...take some Ritalin, girl....you are crazy..

I was under the assumption that Ritalin did not " work " on adults like it does

on children. Aren't the mechanics of Ritalin those of a stimulant when given

to adults? Ressy doesn't appear to need a stimulant! LOL

Pat

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 01-02-10 11:45:14 EST, you write:

<< .I am doing the noodle dance. >>

Thanks, Ressy! <g> V.

[Guest guest]

Teri wrote:

<< **I** was about the only one who complained about feeling outnumbered. I

began to realize that I was essentially achieving a low-carb nutrition

without COUNTING carbs, >>

And Vicki responded:

<< I sure wish I could get away with not counting ... that's the worst part

of diabetes for me, the amount of calculations necessary to gain control. >>

I'm always looking for reasons to be grateful. Watching the struggles of

Vicki and n truly makes me appreciate having some pancreas function.

Any damage we do by miscalculating or the occasional gastronomic excursion

has the potential to be as serious as for a type 1 - but we don't have to

deal with it as an immediate crisis, such as with a serious hypo.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Ressy wrote:

<<... I don't look at the posts as being mean... just a bunch of people who

care about others who have this disease. We can all respect the choices

that each of us have made... and worry about the consquences at the same

time... >>

Excellent post, Ressy!

Susie