Zyprexa Delima about withdrawing

[Guest guest]

My brother Todd is not able to use a computer or function properly so I am his

ears and eyes.

He was recently put on Zyprexa after a terrible experience of running out of

medications -

Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin all at the same time. He was put on 20mg of

Zyprexa by a

doctor who did not understand his history nor kno whim for more than 30 minutes.

Now he

is in the withdrawal process. He is now at the 2.5 mg level. Can anyone

provide suggestions

on how best to taper from the 2.5 mg tablets? He has a had a hard time getting

from 20 to

2.5 mg. I talked to his doctor and I can tell that the Doctor does not begin to

understand

withdrawal from Zyprexa. He told me yesterday that 2.5 is a very small dosage

and that he

can just quit taking it. I told the doc about the naseau, cramps, throwing up

and the doc

spoke as though it was impossible to have this problem from withdrawing from

Zyprexa. He

said it must be something else that is causing that. I have resigned myself

that these doctors

often have no understanding about Zyprexa withdrawal. I know this must go slow

from the

2.5 mg dose. Todd has been on 2.5 now for two weeks. The doc says that we can

go every

other day but am quite concerned with that schedule. Seems far to aggressive

even though

he strongly states there are no side affects from quitting Zyprexa. Sure could

use some good

ideas of how to best help my brother do this taper so he does not suffer too

much.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Rick

[Guest guest]

Hi Rick,

Welcome!

To taper from the drugs, the basic rule is to reduce by no more than

5-10% at a time, then when your brother is feeling OK, you make

another reduction of 5-10%.

DO NOT listen to the doctor, to say someone can take a drug one day

and not the next is completely ignorant. Any chance of getting a new

doctor?

Have you had a chance to read through the files, in there you will

find files on nutrition and supplements these are of vital

importance for your brother. If you have any questions on anything

in the files, just ask, we'll be happy to answer.

It would be helpful if you could give us more information on your

brother, is he on any other medication now apart from the Zyprexa?

How long has he been tapering off of the Zyprexa? It would also be

useful to us if you could post a 4 day food diary for him?

I felt so touched by your post, your brother is lucky to have you

help him through all this.

With Understanding

x

[Guest guest]

>

> My brother Todd is not able to use a computer or function properly

so I am his ears and eyes.

> He was recently put on Zyprexa after a terrible experience of

running out of medications -

> Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin all at the same time. He was put

on 20mg of Zyprexa by a

> doctor who did not understand his history nor kno whim for more

than 30 minutes. Now he

> is in the withdrawal process. He is now at the 2.5 mg level. Can

anyone provide suggestions

> on how best to taper from the 2.5 mg tablets? He has a had a hard

time getting from 20 to

> 2.5 mg. I talked to his doctor and I can tell that the Doctor

does not begin to understand

> withdrawal from Zyprexa. He told me yesterday that 2.5 is a very

small dosage and that he

> can just quit taking it. I told the doc about the naseau, cramps,

throwing up and the doc

> spoke as though it was impossible to have this problem from

withdrawing from Zyprexa. He

> said it must be something else that is causing that. I have

resigned myself that these doctors

> often have no understanding about Zyprexa withdrawal. I know this

must go slow from the

> 2.5 mg dose. Todd has been on 2.5 now for two weeks. The doc

says that we can go every

> other day but am quite concerned with that schedule. Seems far

to aggressive even though

> he strongly states there are no side affects from quitting

Zyprexa. Sure could use some good

> ideas of how to best help my brother do this taper so he does not

suffer too much.>>

** Rick, I think the problem here is we could tell you how to

continue this reducing of the Zyprexa but 99% of what your brother

is experiencing is due to abruptly coming off Ativan, Depakote and

Dilantin.

Please elaborate on this. Why did he do this? When did he do

this? How long has he been on Zyprexa? The ideal would be to

reinstate the other drugs (if he hasn't been off them too long). No

matter what we do with the Zyprexa, it won't take away what he is

experiencing.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

> >

> > My brother Todd is not able to use a computer or function properly

> so I am his ears and eyes.

> > He was recently put on Zyprexa after a terrible experience of

> running out of medications -

> > Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin all at the same time. He was put

> on 20mg of Zyprexa by a

> > doctor who did not understand his history nor kno whim for more

> than 30 minutes. Now he

> > is in the withdrawal process. He is now at the 2.5 mg level. Can

> anyone provide suggestions

> > on how best to taper from the 2.5 mg tablets? He has a had a hard

> time getting from 20 to

> > 2.5 mg. I talked to his doctor and I can tell that the Doctor

> does not begin to understand

> > withdrawal from Zyprexa. He told me yesterday that 2.5 is a very

> small dosage and that he

> > can just quit taking it. I told the doc about the naseau, cramps,

> throwing up and the doc

> > spoke as though it was impossible to have this problem from

> withdrawing from Zyprexa. He

> > said it must be something else that is causing that. I have

> resigned myself that these doctors

> > often have no understanding about Zyprexa withdrawal. I know this

> must go slow from the

> > 2.5 mg dose. Todd has been on 2.5 now for two weeks. The doc

> says that we can go every

> > other day but am quite concerned with that schedule. Seems far

> to aggressive even though

> > he strongly states there are no side affects from quitting

> Zyprexa. Sure could use some good

> > ideas of how to best help my brother do this taper so he does not

> suffer too much.>>

>

>

>

> ** Rick, I think the problem here is we could tell you how to

> continue this reducing of the Zyprexa but 99% of what your brother

> is experiencing is due to abruptly coming off Ativan, Depakote and

> Dilantin.

>

>

> Please elaborate on this. Why did he do this? When did he do

> this? How long has he been on Zyprexa? The ideal would be to

> reinstate the other drugs (if he hasn't been off them too long). No

> matter what we do with the Zyprexa, it won't take away what he is

> experiencing.

>

> Regards,

>

>

Hello :

Sorry, I failed to mention that while Todd was in the hospital and afterwards

they put him

back on Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin. Been on Ativan for 5 years. Depakote

for 8 years

and Dilantin for about 5 years. Todd is presently taking all of these plus

the Zyprexa.

Significant progress has been made in the past two months - from 20 to 2.5 mg.

It has

been very difficult at each stage of reduction as I stated. Not much chance of

changing

his doctor at the present time and I strongly feel his doctor does not

understand about

tapering off properly at a safe. Seems like a decent guy but not knowledgable

in this

area. The only thing he is coming off of at the present time is the Zyprexa.

Tomorrow we

are going to try from 2.5 tablet to 3/4 of the tablet. I live 600 miles from

my brother and

it would be most difficult for him to do liguid titration by himself. So, I

do not see much

choice but to attempt the pill splitter. I visit my brother every month for

about a week

adn try to help him throught the difficult times. I am presently with him in

New Jersey but

have to leave again this weekend. I sure apprecaite the answers I have

received. Some

very caring people on you site. After Zyprexa, Todd will be attempting to

start Ativan

withdrawal. Todd has high anxiety over everything. When he was in the

hospital in

February he was uncooperative and I believe this is why they put him on Zyprexa.

The

reason Todd ended up in the hospital is he ran out of all medications as he did

not know

how to go about getting the medications he needed. Thus, he went cold turkey,

ended up

in the ER and had a tonic cloic seizure while in the ER. We are not sure of

his previous

diagonis of epilepsy and bipolar. I believe he has been heavily medicated but

no one

knows for sure exactly what he has for sure. We are trying to determine this at

the

present time. I am working the situation on a daily basis. Unfortunally, my

brother does

not drive, is on welfare, and is struggling with a very difficult situation

trying to come out

of this ordeal. He is very dedicated and doing his best. NO ILLEGAL DRUGS, NO

ALCOHOL, NO SMOKING. Those were in his past, but he did a turn around about 11

years

ago. I believe he will never touch those again. Only major struggle is the

legal drugs he

is on which seems to severly limit him in life. I hope to set up an

appointment so he can

talk with you as soon as we make a little progress where he feels he can talk to

you. In the

meantime I am working with him a day to day basis as best as I can.

Thanks again for letting me state the story.

Rick Becka

[Guest guest]

Dear Rick,

Todd's story is very complicated and I was wondering if maybe you

could have a chat on the phone to on his behalf?

will be able to help your brother get off all these drugs,

he will be OK if you follow all she says.

Does Todd have help in the times you are not with him? I was just

thinking if he did maybe they could help him manage what

suggests?

People on this site really do care, it is criminal what has been

done to your brother, we know because most of us here have either

finally got off the drugs with s help or are in the process

of withdrawal.

My doctors are " nice " people to, but as you see from Todd's

own " nice " doctor they don't know how to get people off these drugs

and there lack of knowledege is putting lives at risk.

As much as you look after Todd , please also remember to look after

yourself to.

With Love

[Guest guest]

, , and  Upshur and others:Thank you for your answers.I agree with you that the percentages you recommend is the best way to do this taper.  My problem is that Todd is very fearful of doing it this way.  Years ago he was into drugs (prior to 1995).  He is on parole at the present time and is scared to have a syringe around in fears that someone would think that he is taking drugs.  He is clean of drugs and alcohol 100% for 11 years but at the same time has a high level of anxiety over having any type of equipment that could be misconstrued as related to drugs.  I tried very hard to convince him that liquid titration was the best way to go.  He agrees but the fears take over the logical approach.  Thus we are considering using a pill cutter which is quite difficult for a 2.5 mg tablet.  I am going to talk to him again today and try to convince him otherwise.I have been reading through the files and learning a lot but have a lot more to learn.  I am getting Todd to take a lot of the vitiamin and supplements that are being recommended.I did not tell in my initial e-mail that during the hospital visit in February that Todd was put back on Ativan, Depakote and Dylantin in addition to the Zyprexa.  This took place in February.  He has been on Ativan, Depakote and Dylantin for about 5 to 6 years.   I am not sure why they put him on Zyprexa except that when he went cold turkey and ended up in the ER in February he was uncooperative.  He actually had what they classified as a Tonic Clonic Seizure while in the hospital.  I feel the seizure might have been caused by the sudden withdrawal of all medication.  He ran out of medication and did not know how to go about getting new prescriptions.  Once on the Zyprexa he put on 50 pounds or more.He has been coming off of Zyprexa now several months. 1. 13 Feb    Started at 20 mg 2. 18 Mar Reduced to 15 mg 3. 20 Jun  Reduced to 10 mg 4. 27 Jun Reduced to 7.5 mg 5. 11 Jul  Reduced to 5.0 mg 6.  2 Aug Reduced to 2.5 mgHe has experienced a lot of problems in the process.  Nausea, cramping, throwing up, dry heaves and a lot of anxiety and fears.  He seems to be weak overall.  At the same time he wants to get off of this drug and seems to be determined.His diet is not great.  He lives alone and only has a microwave.  Cannot drive and is basically in a rural location.   Not good.  I am 600 miles away and make a visit for a week at a time to help him accomplish the things he must accomplish.   Puts a great strain on my family and finances but we are committed to helping him.   The weight gain is a major problem in his ability to function.  I can see how the weight has slowed him down and inhibits his ability to function.   The drugs he is on don't help the situation.   I feel he does not really need to be on them.   The problem is getting accurate diagnosis.  He wants to get off of them.   His present diagnose is bipolar and epileptic but I have reasons to doubt these.  He was incarcerated when these were diagnosed and I have no confidence in them.   Could drugs have been prescribed to keep the population quite?  Not sure so we are going through the process of trying to figure out exactly what the medical problems might be and how to best  handle them.I have had several responses to my initial e-mail.   I want to thank everyone for their wonderful inputs.  It is most helpful and reassuring to get your inputs and advice.  I would like to get Todd to the point where he can call for a counseling session eventually.Thanks again.Rick   Hi Rick,Welcome!To taper from the drugs, the basic rule is to reduce by no more than 5-10% at a time, then when your brother is feeling OK, you make another reduction of 5-10%.DO NOT listen to the doctor, to say someone can take a drug one day and not the next is completely ignorant. Any chance of getting a new doctor?Have you had a chance to read through the files, in there you will find files on nutrition and supplements these are of vital importance for your brother. If you have any questions on anything in the files, just ask, we'll be happy to answer.It would be helpful if you could give us more information on your brother, is he on any other medication now apart from the Zyprexa? How long has he been tapering off of the Zyprexa? It would also be useful to us if you could post a 4 day food diary for him?I felt so touched by your post, your brother is lucky to have you help him through all this.With Understandingx

[Guest guest]

Hello :Good suggestion on a consult with .  I could do that on his behalf as I interface with his doctors at the present time.  Last week I met with the psych for over an hour with Todd.  Not a problem as Todd prefers me to be there.No Todd has no help when I am not there.  I call him every day and try to provide the support that he seems to need.I agree with your assesment about the doctors lack of knowledge putting lives at risk.  I was present when the doctor told us that Zyprexa does not cause problems and that he could take it every other day.  We started today with liquid titration doing it in a much safer mode.  Todd agreed he would give that a try as it seems like a safer way.I also agree with your comments about my own health.  Just got back to my house after driving 600 miles all night.  Once again, thanks for the advice and concern.RickDear Rick,Todd's story is very complicated and I was wondering if maybe you could have a chat on the phone to on his behalf? will be able to help your brother get off all these drugs, he will be OK if you follow all she says.Does Todd have help in the times you are not with him? I was just thinking if he did maybe they could help him manage what suggests?People on this site really do care, it is criminal what has been done to your brother, we know because most of us here have either finally got off the drugs with s help or are in the process of withdrawal.My doctors are "nice" people to, but as you see from Todd's own "nice" doctor they don't know how to get people off these drugs and there lack of knowledege is putting lives at risk. As much as you look after Todd , please also remember to look after yourself to.With Love

[Guest guest]

Rick,

It would be great for you and great for your brother if you arranged

to do a consult with , not only will it help Todd, but it

will help you to, I know you will feel reassured if you discuss

Todd's situation with on the phone.

Are you in the US?

Is there anyway Todd could get help when you aren't there? Or is

this just impossible?

Keep us posted on how things are going, we really can help you and

Todd through this.

Do take a look at some of the member stories in the files if you

haven't already, I go there sometimes when I need an extra bit of

strength in my heart.

With love to you and Todd

x

[Guest guest]

:Thanks again for your insights.   Todd is in New Jersey and I am in Tennessee.  Got home this morning and will be going back to NJ Sunday the 27th for more support for Todd.  Very difficult for Todd to get help when I am not up there.  He is not allowed to drive presently and that in itself presents major hurdles.Todd started coming down from the 2.5 mg today by liquid titration = 90%.  He feels OK right now but we will be watching it closely.  I got him many of the vitamins and supplements recommended.  After Zyprexa he hopes to start Ativan withdrawal in the future.   It is a long road but Todd seems to be dedicated to continuing this process.Thanks .   Your words are a great help and I will continue reading all the files you mentioned.  You are a very kind person and I want you to find the strength that is needed for you to be successful.  Keep up the good work.  If there is anything I can do to ever help let me know.  I understand struggles and I know how important it is to have others support.  You got it from my corner. RickRick,It would be great for you and great for your brother if you arranged to do a consult with , not only will it help Todd, but it will help you to, I know you will feel reassured if you discuss Todd's situation with on the phone.Are you in the US?Is there anyway Todd could get help when you aren't there? Or is this just impossible?Keep us posted on how things are going, we really can help you and Todd through this.Do take a look at some of the member stories in the files if you haven't already, I go there sometimes when I need an extra bit of strength in my heart.With love to you and Toddx

[Guest guest]

Dear Rick,

At this point, there are too many unknowns for me to be of much

help. As is said, the devil is in the details.

As far as the decreases you have planned, taking a drug every

other day only yanks a person's chemistry all over the place. It's

not hwlpful. The 25% decrease is too large. Your brother is

suffering when there is no need to suffer like this. A five percent

decrease is enough with a drug like Zyprexa. The next decrease

should not be done until he is completely stable again. This can

sometimes be 6 weeks.

Have you considered having your brother move closer to you?

Regards,

> Sorry, I failed to mention that while Todd was in the hospital and

afterwards they put him

> back on Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin. Been on Ativan for 5

years. Depakote for 8 years

> and Dilantin for about 5 years. Todd is presently taking all of

these plus the Zyprexa.

> Significant progress has been made in the past two months - from

20 to 2.5 mg. It has

> been very difficult at each stage of reduction as I stated. Not

much chance of changing

> his doctor at the present time and I strongly feel his doctor does

not understand about

> tapering off properly at a safe. Seems like a decent guy but

not knowledgable in this

> area. The only thing he is coming off of at the present time is

the Zyprexa. Tomorrow we

> are going to try from 2.5 tablet to 3/4 of the tablet. I live

600 miles from my brother and

> it would be most difficult for him to do liguid titration by

himself. So, I do not see much

> choice but to attempt the pill splitter. I visit my brother

every month for about a week

> adn try to help him throught the difficult times. I am presently

with him in New Jersey but

> have to leave again this weekend. I sure apprecaite the answers I

have received. Some

> very caring people on you site. After Zyprexa, Todd will be

attempting to start Ativan

> withdrawal. Todd has high anxiety over everything. When he was

in the hospital in

> February he was uncooperative and I believe this is why they put

him on Zyprexa. The

> reason Todd ended up in the hospital is he ran out of all

medications as he did not know

> how to go about getting the medications he needed. Thus, he went

cold turkey, ended up

> in the ER and had a tonic cloic seizure while in the ER. We are

not sure of his previous

> diagonis of epilepsy and bipolar. I believe he has been heavily

medicated but no one

> knows for sure exactly what he has for sure. We are trying to

determine this at the

> present time. I am working the situation on a daily basis.

Unfortunally, my brother does

> not drive, is on welfare, and is struggling with a very difficult

situation trying to come out

> of this ordeal. He is very dedicated and doing his best. NO

ILLEGAL DRUGS, NO

> ALCOHOL, NO SMOKING. Those were in his past, but he did a turn

around about 11 years

> ago. I believe he will never touch those again. Only major

struggle is the legal drugs he

> is on which seems to severly limit him in life. I hope to set up

an appointment so he can

> talk with you as soon as we make a little progress where he feels

he can talk to you. In the

> meantime I am working with him a day to day basis as best as I can.

>

> Thanks again for letting me state the story.

>

> Rick Becka

>

[Guest guest]

Hello :Todd is trying liquid Tittation.  2nd day at 10%.  I think that might be too much due to him getting very sick again with all I mentioned before.  I think tomorrow we will go back up to 2.5, then get stable again, then a 5% reduction like you stated.  Hard to believe how difficult this can be.  I am trying to get Todd to move down here with me.  It would be much better.  We are in the process but it is going to take a few months to accomplish this task.  Thanks so much for your words of wisdom!!!Regards,RickDear Rick,At this point, there are too many unknowns for me to be of much help. As is said, the devil is in the details.As far as the decreases you have planned, taking a drug every other day only yanks a person's chemistry all over the place. It's not hwlpful. The 25% decrease is too large. Your brother is suffering when there is no need to suffer like this. A five percent decrease is enough with a drug like Zyprexa. The next decrease should not be done until he is completely stable again. This can sometimes be 6 weeks.Have you considered having your brother move closer to you?Regards,> Sorry, I failed to mention that while Todd was in the hospital and afterwards they put him > back on Ativan, Depakote and Dilantin. Been on Ativan for 5 years. Depakote for 8 years > and Dilantin for about 5 years. Todd is presently taking all of these plus the Zyprexa. > Significant progress has been made in the past two months - from 20 to 2.5 mg. It has > been very difficult at each stage of reduction as I stated. Not much chance of changing > his doctor at the present time and I strongly feel his doctor does not understand about > tapering off properly at a safe. Seems like a decent guy but not knowledgable in this > area. The only thing he is coming off of at the present time is the Zyprexa. Tomorrow we > are going to try from 2.5 tablet to 3/4 of the tablet. I live 600 miles from my brother and > it would be most difficult for him to do liguid titration by himself. So, I do not see much > choice but to attempt the pill splitter. I visit my brother every month for about a week > adn try to help him throught the difficult times. I am presently with him in New Jersey but > have to leave again this weekend. I sure apprecaite the answers I have received. Some > very caring people on you site. After Zyprexa, Todd will be attempting to start Ativan > withdrawal. Todd has high anxiety over everything. When he was in the hospital in > February he was uncooperative and I believe this is why they put him on Zyprexa. The > reason Todd ended up in the hospital is he ran out of all medications as he did not know > how to go about getting the medications he needed. Thus, he went cold turkey, ended up > in the ER and had a tonic cloic seizure while in the ER. We are not sure of his previous > diagonis of epilepsy and bipolar. I believe he has been heavily medicated but no one > knows for sure exactly what he has for sure. We are trying to determine this at the > present time. I am working the situation on a daily basis. Unfortunally, my brother does > not drive, is on welfare, and is struggling with a very difficult situation trying to come out > of this ordeal. He is very dedicated and doing his best. NO ILLEGAL DRUGS, NO > ALCOHOL, NO SMOKING. Those were in his past, but he did a turn around about 11 years > ago. I believe he will never touch those again. Only major struggle is the legal drugs he > is on which seems to severly limit him in life. I hope to set up an appointment so he can > talk with you as soon as we make a little progress where he feels he can talk to you. In the > meantime I am working with him a day to day basis as best as I can.> > Thanks again for letting me state the story.> > Rick Becka>