Update on Belle

September 22, 2001

,

I am certainly not an expert on meds (my just began again on

his second try after a 6 month layoff), but I do know that SSRIs work

slowly. Two months, especially when titrating up to a therapeutic

dose, may not be enough time to see full results. 's doc

suggested that it could be 12 weeks until we saw that relief we are

seeking because we started him low (prozac)and are just now beginning

to titrate up. I empathize with your impatience...we are in the same

boat here.

As far as the ADD diagnosis goes, has Belle exhibited new behaviors

that might lead to this diagnosis since starting on Zoloft? Some

contributors here have indicated that hyperactivity and impulsiveness

can be a BSE of meds. It also seems that some have indicated that if

their child is ADD that the SSRIs worsened the problem. I would ask

the doc from what behaviors does he/she now make that diagnosis. (I

don't understand the significance of playmates of various ages...this

would not seem terrible unusual in a very social child; and many kids

don't like to play by themselves). Before you decide to move on to

another doc, I would thoroughly question him/her on the diagnoses,

meds, plan of action and expected progress.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth. Tell Belle congratulations on 20

minutes! I know you will see more progress soon.

> Hi all,

> It's been a difficult 2 weeks to say the least.

> Anyway, I had been giving Belle 25 mg of zoloft and increased it

to

> 37.5 mg, even thought the doc said 50. We have been making some

> progress with the sleeping bag, but she only can get to 20 minutes

> and won't go to sleep in the bag. The doc said this weekend she

HAD

> TO sleep in the bag. Well tonite, she cried and cried. " I can't do

> it " . " Do you want to know why I'm scared daddy - everything, the

> dark, the spiders everything " Anyway I said you have to stay in for

> the 20 minutes anyway and we'll try tommorrow again.

> I'm starting to lose confidence in the doc. Maybe it's the 5 rule

in

> play. I didn't go Thursday, but in the discussion with the doc, my

> wife told her that Belle would go out of the house looking for a

> playmate and would just about play with anyone. 3 y/o or 15 y/o.

> Belle is 8. She has a lot of difficulty playing with herself.

> The doc said she had ADD. Now on top of the OCD, she has ADD. I

have

> read that many of the children have both on this thread. The doc

said

> she would like to give her meds for the ADD!

> I was hesitant to give her the zoloft, now this. I would like to

> know why after 4 visits, maybe 5, she just noticed she has ADD?

> I am losing confidence. SHOULD I BE?

> For the last week, Belle has been taking 50 mg. and I don't really

> see any improvement, or little. Am i being impatient? It's been

only

> about 2 months of zoloft.

> Well, do I switch docs already? HELP.

> Thanks

>

September 23, 2001

Dear ,

I can certainly sympathize with your agony. We are also trying to sort out Annie's alphabet soup, and I am feeling lost and confused as well. Also starting to question our psychiatrist's competence, which makes everything so hard. I would question the doctor carefully about why he thinks ADD now, and I would wait for a while before giving up on the Zoloft. It can take a long time, and sometimes it takes a high dosage. Annie's response to Luvox was to make her so completely spacey that everyone now thinks she has ADHD. This has been her worst school year ever. But I am convinced it is 75% a side effect of the meds, added to her own ADHD tendancies. So we are doing a washout this month - no SSRI for a month to get a baseline picture of her. Then we will have a better idea of whether her behavior is a result of the medication or not. So... all this is meant to suggest that you go slowly and carefully. If Zoloft is making Belle seem ADDish, it may get better gradually as she adjusts, or if she is like Annie, it won't. (Paxil didn't have this effect on Annie, but it also didn't help the OCD after a year). Doing the medication dance is frustrating and scary and confusing, but hang in there and don't get too discouraged. Talk with your doctor about your concerns. He/She should be able to give you a full and adequate explanations for all decisions being made about your daughter.

Good luck,

September 23, 2001

:

I guess I go on gut feelings -- if you're second guessing her, it wouldn't

hurt to call around to find another doc to interview. As for the Zoloft,

Belle can still go up quite a bit more on it. My son at 8-1/2 was taking

200 mg. (100 in am and 100 in pm). It wasn't " the " med for him, but I don't

think Belle has peaked out on this med to know whether or not it will work

for her or not. Granted, I'm not a dr. just a mom whose been through a lot

of med changes within 3 years. My son is ADHD -- it seems to be very common

with the OCD dx. Before putting her on an ADD med I would make sure she was

stable on her Zoloft first -- if you add an ADD med and you're still

increasing Zoloft you won't know which med is doing what.

I also wanted to let you know that I empathize with you on trying to get her

to sleep in the sleeping bag for 20 minutes. When we first found out

had OCD he was 6-1/2 and he would NOT sleep in his bed; especially under the

covers! After he was on a med dosage where he could do therapy, we started

by him going between the covers for as long as he could take it. Then the

next time we would try and increase the time; even if it was 30 seconds more

it was a victory and a big deal was made of it -- 20 minutes seems a long

time if it's early in the therapy process.

I hope this has helped or at least something to think about. Take care.

Tamra

Update on Belle

> Hi all,

> It's been a difficult 2 weeks to say the least.

> Anyway, I had been giving Belle 25 mg of zoloft and increased it to

> 37.5 mg, even thought the doc said 50. We have been making some

> progress with the sleeping bag, but she only can get to 20 minutes

> and won't go to sleep in the bag. The doc said this weekend she HAD

> TO sleep in the bag. Well tonite, she cried and cried. " I can't do

> it " . " Do you want to know why I'm scared daddy - everything, the

> dark, the spiders everything " Anyway I said you have to stay in for

> the 20 minutes anyway and we'll try tommorrow again.

> I'm starting to lose confidence in the doc. Maybe it's the 5 rule in

> play. I didn't go Thursday, but in the discussion with the doc, my

> wife told her that Belle would go out of the house looking for a

> playmate and would just about play with anyone. 3 y/o or 15 y/o.

> Belle is 8. She has a lot of difficulty playing with herself.

> The doc said she had ADD. Now on top of the OCD, she has ADD. I have

> read that many of the children have both on this thread. The doc said

> she would like to give her meds for the ADD!

> I was hesitant to give her the zoloft, now this. I would like to

> know why after 4 visits, maybe 5, she just noticed she has ADD?

> I am losing confidence. SHOULD I BE?

> For the last week, Belle has been taking 50 mg. and I don't really

> see any improvement, or little. Am i being impatient? It's been only

> about 2 months of zoloft.

> Well, do I switch docs already? HELP.

> Thanks

>

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September 23, 2001

Hi . I think Belle's done great to get up to the 20 minutes.

My son isn't on meds so I'm no help there, but maybe she's not up

high enough on her dosage yet for it to really help her (?) from what

I've read here and in other groups.

About her fears - well, we all know LOTS of kids have nighttime

fears. But since she mentioned she's scared of the dark - are you

leaving some kind of nightlight on in the room for her or even a

lamp? Or is she just being afraid because she know the light will go

out once she's asleep? Does she sleep with a favorite toy or

anything? I just mention this as I can remember I loved stuffed

animals and had to have most all of them in my bed with me. But I

guess nothing is quite as secure as mom and dad, huh? Does Belle

have ANY ideas about how to make her sleeping bag more secure-feeling

for her?

I was also wondering, and you probably mentioned this in another post

but I've forgotten - does she play in her room a lot? I was just

wondering if she is generally more comfortable in your bedroom than

hers, even when mom/dad aren't in the room.

So far as the playing with kids of all ages - well, that was my now

16 y/o. He never learned how to play by himself or entertain himself

very well. He'd be bored! I used to think it was because he grew up

in daycare. But anyway, when he was 4-5-6, etc., he didn't care if

the neighbor boy was 4, 10 or 14 just so long as he had someone to do

something with. I used to tell him not to make a pest of himself

with the older kids, they might not want to play with someone younger

all the time. Just so long as I knew where he was (in the yard or

across the street) and knew the kids, I didn't worry. Even one of my

twins can't entertain himself very well.

Belle isn't wandering too far from home to look for playmates is

she?

Sorry I don't have any GREAT advice!! Tell Belle we're all cheering

for her to pass the 20 minutes!! BTW, will she fall asleep while

someone reads to her?

> Hi all,

> It's been a difficult 2 weeks to say the least.

> Anyway, I had been giving Belle 25 mg of zoloft and increased it

to

> 37.5 mg, even thought the doc said 50. We have been making some

> progress with the sleeping bag, but she only can get to 20 minutes

> and won't go to sleep in the bag. The doc said this weekend she

HAD

> TO sleep in the bag. Well tonite, she cried and cried. " I can't do

> it " . " Do you want to know why I'm scared daddy - everything, the

> dark, the spiders everything " Anyway I said you have to stay in for

> the 20 minutes anyway and we'll try tommorrow again.

> I'm starting to lose confidence in the doc. Maybe it's the 5 rule

in

> play. I didn't go Thursday, but in the discussion with the doc, my

> wife told her that Belle would go out of the house looking for a

> playmate and would just about play with anyone. 3 y/o or 15 y/o.

> Belle is 8. She has a lot of difficulty playing with herself.

> The doc said she had ADD. Now on top of the OCD, she has ADD. I

have

> read that many of the children have both on this thread. The doc

said

> she would like to give her meds for the ADD!

> I was hesitant to give her the zoloft, now this. I would like to

> know why after 4 visits, maybe 5, she just noticed she has ADD?

> I am losing confidence. SHOULD I BE?

> For the last week, Belle has been taking 50 mg. and I don't really

> see any improvement, or little. Am i being impatient? It's been

only

> about 2 months of zoloft.

> Well, do I switch docs already? HELP.

> Thanks

>

September 23, 2001

HI :

Thanks for the update on Belle. As you know her Zoloft dosage is rather low

for making much impact on her OCD.

One of the things I have learned is to rely much more on my own intuition.

When our kids are ill we second guess ourselves so much. However we are the

ones who are with our kids 24/7 or thereabouts. So we can listen to

ourselves about whether to take the advice of the doc or whether we need to

suggest something different to them.

Steve's p-doc always encourages us to titrate up on a particular schedule

but to back off or down as we notice changes in Steve or his behavior.

When our beloved kids tell us they can't do an exposure, they are the

authority on this. It does only damage, in my experience, to " force' them

into doing an exposure they feel is too much. Encourage them to go further

than they might worry they can, but do not use parental power to insist. I

have made this mistake too many times, and I can only be tremendously

thankful for Steve's resilience in dealing with my errors.

As far as losing confidence, consider your own intuition. When our kids

are still pretty ill it is confusing for all of us, docs included.

Sometimes we have to be patient, other times we need to learn how to cut

our losses. Your best guide on this decision lies within. Good luck, take

care, I hope things become more manageable soon, aloha, Kathy (h)

kathyh@...

At 02:22 AM 09/23/2001 -0000, you wrote:

>Hi all,

>It's been a difficult 2 weeks to say the least.

>Anyway, I had been giving Belle 25 mg of zoloft and increased it to

>37.5 mg, even thought the doc said 50. We have been making some

>progress with the sleeping bag, but she only can get to 20 minutes

>and won't go to sleep in the bag. The doc said this weekend she HAD

>TO sleep in the bag. Well tonite, she cried and cried. " I can't do

>it " . " Do you want to know why I'm scared daddy - everything, the

>dark, the spiders everything " Anyway I said you have to stay in for

>the 20 minutes anyway and we'll try tommorrow again.

>I'm starting to lose confidence in the doc. Maybe it's the 5 rule in

>play. I didn't go Thursday, but in the discussion with the doc, my

>wife told her that Belle would go out of the house looking for a

>playmate and would just about play with anyone. 3 y/o or 15 y/o.

>Belle is 8. She has a lot of difficulty playing with herself.

>The doc said she had ADD. Now on top of the OCD, she has ADD. I have

>read that many of the children have both on this thread. The doc said

>she would like to give her meds for the ADD!

>I was hesitant to give her the zoloft, now this. I would like to

>know why after 4 visits, maybe 5, she just noticed she has ADD?

>I am losing confidence. SHOULD I BE?

>For the last week, Belle has been taking 50 mg. and I don't really

>see any improvement, or little. Am i being impatient? It's been only

>about 2 months of zoloft.

>Well, do I switch docs already? HELP.

>Thanks

>

October 31, 2001

Hi ...

Don't give up on her own bed--she will sleep there when she is ready. Just put

a bed in your room and let her sleep there until she is ready...then just

gradually move it further and further until she is in her own room (granted,

this might take years--a little comic relief).

Yes, protein snacks instead of carbohydrates and trying to take away the sugar

and white flour really makes a difference...it is a blood sugar thing.

in Nebraska

Update on Belle

Group

Been just reading the thread, not to much to tell. The " sleeping bag "

didn't work and the psychiatrist has abandoned trying to get her to

sleep in her own bed for now. We will try again at another time.

Belle, age 9, is now on 50mg of zoloft daily and it seems to be

working. I'm not quite sure if it's enough of a dose, because she

still has some symptoms. She still asks me and my wife everday

whether " she has new underwear on " and if " she brushed her teeth " .

This ritual is before she goes to school. I'm not sure if it's OCD or

habit??? I wonder. It seems to reassure her and she has no trouble

getting off to school after we answer.

I've been reading a bit about diet, sugar, protein, etc.

I try to get her to eat protein, but it's difficult.

Is there a connection between OCD and diet?

Are there any articles on such?

Regards and thanks

October 31, 2001

Hi ,

Glad to hear of the medication helping Belle.

Is her asking the same questions everyday something

that is impacting her life? or is it over and over

reasurrance questions? Just a suggestion: if it is a

bothersome OCD driven thing.....could you make a check

list for the things she asks about. When she has

brushed her teeth she can (or you can) check it off.

If she asks the question, you can help her check the

list. After a while she would go and check the list

on her own.

The times my son was driven by the OCD reassurance and

he needed to know the answer, I would have to answer

in THE RIGHT WAY. Some times there just was no right

way and he would have a fit. I learned to 'not play

that' with him.

I don't have anything to add about the food and look

forward to reading others posts about it. I would

always watch out for hunger driven anxiety and have a

good healthy snack available.

Good luck, it is good to hear from you.

Vivian in WA ST

--- buytick@... wrote:

> Group

> Been just reading the thread, not to much to tell.

> The " sleeping bag "

> didn't work and the psychiatrist has abandoned

> trying to get her to

> sleep in her own bed for now. We will try again at

> another time.

> Belle, age 9, is now on 50mg of zoloft daily and it

> seems to be

> working. I'm not quite sure if it's enough of a

> dose, because she

> still has some symptoms. She still asks me and my

> wife everday

> whether " she has new underwear on " and if " she

> brushed her teeth " .

> This ritual is before she goes to school. I'm not

> sure if it's OCD or

> habit??? I wonder. It seems to reassure her and she

> has no trouble

> getting off to school after we answer.

> I've been reading a bit about diet, sugar, protein,

> etc.

> I try to get her to eat protein, but it's difficult.

> Is there a connection between OCD and diet?

> Are there any articles on such?

> Regards and thanks

>

__________________________________________________

November 1, 2001

Hi , The nutrition question is one that is often asked by parent of kids

with AD/HD also. To tell you the truth, as with anything else, the effects of

foods on an individual vary from person to person, just like effects of

medications. If there was a fool proof fix for OCD, like eating more protein,

or not eating sugar, then I can assure you that those things would be the first

suggestion that physicians and mental health professionals would use, and there

would not be a need for as many meds as there are. It sounds like you are on

the right path with Belle. in Southeastern PA

buytick@... wrote: Group