Guest guest Posted August 23, 2002 Report Share Posted August 23, 2002 IgAN New York is right. As can be seen on my website, www.igan.ca, not all fish oil is the same in terms of the EPA/DHA concentration. I didn't look to see which member started the poll, but I thought I would just mention that while the system allows you to " edit " it, if you actually do change anything about the existing poll, you will *lose* all of the " votes " already cast. We just went through this with another recent poll (the one about ethnicity a couple of weeks ago). You might want to continue the poll to its conclusion, and then, if you want to refine it further, open another one. It can still give a general idea about fish oil quantities the way it is. Pierre P.S. For those who may not know, the poll function on our yahoo site is open to all members and unmoderated. Anyone can open a poll, and anyone can " vote " on it. Those of you who do not have a Yahoo ID associated with the group may not be able to get to it though - I'm not sure about that. Fish Oil Poll > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams of EPA and > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of fish oil > per day. > > -IgAN New York > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of innumerable minds. " > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2002 Report Share Posted August 24, 2002 IgAN New York and Pierre, I did think about adding that to the poll but decided not to because I thought the interest level of the poll would have been low. My reason for starting the poll was because I have read so many different articles pertaining to the use of fish oil and it's effects on IgAN Patients. I have yet to find conclusive studies that have isolated EPA and DHA. One study that I remember reading about was conducted in Japan (I tried to find the link and was unable) several years ago that studied the use of Flax Seed Oil instead of Fish Oil with renal patients. The study was unfounded meaning there was no apparent difference between the actual flax seed oil sample and the placebo sample. Flax seed oil has about 10 to 20 times the levels of EPA and DHA than does fish oil. The one key difference in the two products is that the EPA and DHA in flax seed oil are not from fish but rather from the flax plant itself. I am hoping that someone else has more information about the subject. I personally take 10 grams of fish oil (3 grams of EPA/DHA) a day. > IgAN New York is right. As can be seen on my website, www.igan.ca, not all > fish oil is the same in terms of the EPA/DHA concentration. I didn't look to > see which member started the poll, but I thought I would just mention that > while the system allows you to " edit " it, if you actually do change anything > about the existing poll, you will *lose* all of the " votes " already cast. We > just went through this with another recent poll (the one about ethnicity a > couple of weeks ago). You might want to continue the poll to its conclusion, > and then, if you want to refine it further, open another one. It can still > give a general idea about fish oil quantities the way it is. > > Pierre > P.S. For those who may not know, the poll function on our yahoo site is open > to all members and unmoderated. Anyone can open a poll, and anyone can > " vote " on it. Those of you who do not have a Yahoo ID associated with the > group may not be able to get to it though - I'm not sure about that. > > > Fish Oil Poll > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams of EPA > and > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of fish oil > > per day. > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of innumerable > minds. " > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2002 Report Share Posted August 24, 2002 , Have you read the fish oil page on my website, www.igan.ca ? That should clear up a lot of things, and it isn't just me writing that. It has been done in consultation with the advisory board nephrologists (some of whom are very interested in the benefits of fish oil). There is little if any actual EPA and DHA in flax oil. The building block fatty acids for it are there though, and then your body " manufactures " the EPA and DHA out of that. With fish oil, the fish has already done that for you. So, to get the same quantities of EPA/DHA from flax oil as you can from a few grams of fish oil, you would have to take almost impossibly large amounts of flax oil on a daily basis. Dr. Donadio's long-term clinical trial did use specific concentrations of EPA and DHA, depending on the formulation used. Anyway, if you haven't done so, read the site. I'm sure you will find it very helpful. There's a direct link to the fish oil page right in the main index. Pierre P.S. Nothing wrong with your poll though. It can give a general idea as to how much people are taking. I'm down for 0 myself. Fish Oil Poll > > > > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams > of EPA > > and > > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of > fish oil > > > per day. > > > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of > innumerable > > minds. " > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2002 Report Share Posted August 24, 2002 Ditto a '0' added from me too. Hateful stuff anyway, gave me fishy burps and terrible heartburn. Re: Fish Oil Poll , Have you read the fish oil page on my website, www.igan.ca ? That should clear up a lot of things, and it isn't just me writing that. It has been done in consultation with the advisory board nephrologists (some of whom are very interested in the benefits of fish oil). There is little if any actual EPA and DHA in flax oil. The building block fatty acids for it are there though, and then your body " manufactures " the EPA and DHA out of that. With fish oil, the fish has already done that for you. So, to get the same quantities of EPA/DHA from flax oil as you can from a few grams of fish oil, you would have to take almost impossibly large amounts of flax oil on a daily basis. Dr. Donadio's long-term clinical trial did use specific concentrations of EPA and DHA, depending on the formulation used. Anyway, if you haven't done so, read the site. I'm sure you will find it very helpful. There's a direct link to the fish oil page right in the main index. Pierre P.S. Nothing wrong with your poll though. It can give a general idea as to how much people are taking. I'm down for 0 myself. Fish Oil Poll > > > > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams > of EPA > > and > > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of > fish oil > > > per day. > > > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of > innumerable > > minds. " > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2002 Report Share Posted August 24, 2002 Re: Fish Oil Poll > IgAN New York and Pierre, >Flax seed oil has about 10 to 20 times the levels of > EPA and DHA than does fish oil. The one key difference in the two > products is that the EPA and DHA in flax seed oil are not from fish > but rather from the flax plant itself. I am hoping that someone else > has more information about the subject. I personally take 10 grams > of fish oil (3 grams of EPA/DHA) a day. : Flax oil does not have 10-20 times the level of EPA and DHA and, in fact, contains neither. It contains Alpha-Linolenic Acid which is metabolized, to an uncontrollable and unknowable degree, to EPA and DHA. My concerns for flax oil as a more " palatable " alternative to fish oil are several. First, many factors, particularly dietary, can impair the metabolism of ALA to EPA and DHA most notably intake of Omega-6 FA which are normally high in the American diet. Secondly, Flax oil also contains a cyanogenic glycoside called linamarin, which can release cyanide in low levels. Thirdly, I don't believe it is possible to take enough flax oil to metabolize the levels of DHA and EPA required by the IgAN regimen. In short, if you take 3 grams of EPA/DHA per day from fish oil, you may have to take your weight per day in flax oil. I don't believe flax oil is a good alternative to fish oil. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2002 Report Share Posted August 24, 2002 This hasn't been mentioned by anyone in a while, but for those who do take fish oil, one trick to minimize fishy burps and indigestion that many have reported success with in the past is to keep the capsules very cold in the refrigerator, in hopes that when you take them with water, before any food, they won't dissolve quite as high up in the digestive track. I don't know if this really works, but that's what many have tried. Pierre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 25, 2002 Report Share Posted August 25, 2002 I have the answer to the fish oil burps! It's " Fisol " . Thats a brand name for enteric-coated fish oil. The coating lets the softgel pass through the stomach and releases in the intestines. I have not had any fishy burps or bad breath in the time I have been taking them.(5 months) Also, they are half the size of the 1 gram pills.( alot easier to swallow) I take 5 of them a day. Margie > This hasn't been mentioned by anyone in a while, but for those who do take > fish oil, one trick to minimize fishy burps and indigestion that many have > reported success with in the past is to keep the capsules very cold in the > refrigerator, in hopes that when you take them with water, before any food, > they won't dissolve quite as high up in the digestive track. I don't know if > this really works, but that's what many have tried. > > Pierre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 Pierre, Thanks for the information. I am new at this disease and I am constantly trying to learn more. My assessment of EPA and DHA being high in flax seed oil was wrong and I apologize for referencing that in my previous e-mail. I was getting confused between EPA/DHA and Omega 3. The flax seed oil bottle that have has 7,700mg of Omega 3 per tablespoon serving and says nothing about EPA/DHA. Pierre, I would also like to thank you for the manner in which you informed me of my inaccuracy. You are very knowledgeable and personable person which makes a you a tremendous asset to this group. Yes I agree that the accuracy of the information expressed in this group needs to be accurate I also agree the friendships that we form in this group are priceless. Best Regards, Re: Fish Oil Poll , Have you read the fish oil page on my website, www.igan.ca ? That should clear up a lot of things, and it isn't just me writing that. It has been done in consultation with the advisory board nephrologists (some of whom are very interested in the benefits of fish oil). There is little if any actual EPA and DHA in flax oil. The building block fatty acids for it are there though, and then your body " manufactures " the EPA and DHA out of that. With fish oil, the fish has already done that for you. So, to get the same quantities of EPA/DHA from flax oil as you can from a few grams of fish oil, you would have to take almost impossibly large amounts of flax oil on a daily basis. Dr. Donadio's long-term clinical trial did use specific concentrations of EPA and DHA, depending on the formulation used. Anyway, if you haven't done so, read the site. I'm sure you will find it very helpful. There's a direct link to the fish oil page right in the main index. Pierre P.S. Nothing wrong with your poll though. It can give a general idea as to how much people are taking. I'm down for 0 myself. Fish Oil Poll > > > > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams > of EPA > > and > > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of > fish oil > > > per day. > > > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of > innumerable > > minds. " > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 , Thanks, and no apologies needed. We are all here to learn. A lot of people think of " omega-3 " when fish oil is mentioned (and why not, since that's how most of these pills are marketed). Pierre Fish Oil Poll > > > > > > > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams > > of EPA > > > and > > > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of > > fish oil > > > > per day. > > > > > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of > > innumerable > > > minds. " > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2002 Report Share Posted August 26, 2002 There was actually a time when I tried taking fish oil, together with the Prednisone. I was can't remember the EPA, but it worked out to 12g/day, i.e., 12 capsules. I used to take all 12 at one go, without any fishy burps. Could it have been because it was done on an empty stomach - if taken after meals maybe the oil " floats " on the stomach contents initially and burping brings a little aftertaste out? Also in my effort to reduce cost (I couldn't really afford the fish oil), I tried other (cheaper) brands, but they didn't go down as well, making me feel ill - I think it's something to do with the gelatin capsule or whatever, not sure. In the end I stopped taking the oil, after a year of it. I never noticed feeling better or worse while on it. I read somewhere that flaxseed oil contains the precursor of EPA, and that the body has the ability to convert that into EPA according to its needs (need to go look for the article but I don't know if anyone has read it?). It does contain omega-3 and EFAs which the body cannot manufacture on its own, and there are benefits to be had by eating it - the recommended dose being 14mg/day. Being vegan, naturally I'm keen to know if that's true, or if I'd have to consume a ridiculous quantity to get enough of that precursor. It'd be nice to have an alternative. ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: iga-nephropathy To: <iga-nephropathy > Subject: Re: Fish Oil Poll Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:08:32 -0400 , Thanks, and no apologies needed. We are all here to learn. A lot of people think of " omega-3 " when fish oil is mentioned (and why not, since that's how most of these pills are marketed). Pierre Fish Oil Poll > > > > > > > > > > Suggestion: within your poll, you may want to consider the grams > > of EPA > > > and > > > > of DHA from fish oil concentrate and not just the total grams of > > fish oil > > > > per day. > > > > > > > > -IgAN New York > > > > > > > > " Our knowledge is the amassed thought and experience of > > innumerable > > > minds. " > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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