Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 > > hi, i am feeling very down today, had a bad night due to many flashbacks from the past and bad dreams...my blood pressure is too high again today; it was normal yesterday and i hoped it would stay that way; not today; i woke up with a headache and only hope it will not develop into migraine; i need to be intelectually bright today; i have four important deadlines, one for 30th of june... > is it possible that unstable blood pressure is related to withdrawal? if yes- how to manage it? > i am aware that apart from reduction of meds a lot is going on in my life; i can't just get holidays from everything; i must carry on... > sorry for my english, if i am not precise with something tell me, it is not my mother tongue...>> ** You reduced too much of the drug too quickly. This is why you are feeling the way you are. If you were doing it the way we recommend, at this point you would have only reduced by about 30 or so milligrams. Is the Effexor an extended release formula or regular formula? If it is an extended release you will need to switch over to a regular formulation. Are you taking any other drugs? Any supplements? Please post a 4 day food and drink diary. This can be from the past 4 days. Did you read the article on Stimulation and Nervous System Overload from the files? What Flashbacks are these? Thanks. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Thank you , Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. There are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I was on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand now!), the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people were talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading book and the world flashing by outside the window... I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not looking forward to this! I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on... I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is going to be a long email because of this- sorry): Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 summer to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in the morning Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per day (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the tablet means: regular formula) 1. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 2. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 3. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 4. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 5. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 6. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 7. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 8. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 9.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 10. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 11. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 12.. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 13.. . am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 14.. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet Pm 75mg capsule 16.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 17. am 75mg capsule pm 75mg capsule 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet Pm 75mg capsule 19.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 20.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 21.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 22.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 23.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 24.. am 75mg capsule pm 2x37.5mg tablet 25..am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ¾ of tablet 26.. am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ¾ of tablet 27.. am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ¾ of tablet 28..am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ½ of tablet 29.. am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ½ of tablet 30.. am 75mg capsule pm 1+ ½ of tablet 31..am 75mg capsule pm 1 + ¼ of tablet 32. am 75mg capsule pm 1 + ¼ of tablet 33. am 75mg capsule pm 1 + ¼ of tablet 34..am 75mg capsule pm 37.5 tablet 35 am 75mg capsule pm 37.5 tablet Other medication: Atenolol for blood pressure- 50mg, at the moment increased of 25mg epam- 1mg, half a tablet in evening Omeprazole 40mg for stomach problems Painkillers for headaches- paracetamol or paracetamol with codeine or tension headache tablets Syndol Painkillers for joint paints- as above Naramig for migraines Magnesium Oxide250mg + calcium carbonate 500mg Vit D Hawthorn Sometimes- valerian root with hopes – herbal tincture I was trying to use benadryl for the vertigo, but it only increased my blood pressure, stopped it… I had to be on fluconazole due to the digestive system fungi infection (I get them when I am run down) My blood pressure and headaches were fine until about 25th day I had mostly vertigo problems than seem to be coming back now when I stopped benadryl. From the very first day I felt dizzy and vertigo like, but I was thinking I was exaggerating. Only because I started to read I realised I had what other people described. The flashbacks- as I have been in psychotherapy for more than 2 years some traumatic memories started to be more present. Some pictures are just so strong and I seem to have no control over them. Something is just triggered, stays with me for few days and goes away, then another memory comes… I have admitted to being abused just in the beginning of this year. I know what happened and that it happened to me. I no longer suppress it… Last night I had one of the difficult memories and then some significant dreams at night. Knowing something about the ptsd I understand that it causes an arousal. Some time ago I was just oversensitive, now I know the reasons and I work on them in therapy. I can’t stop the process. As I said I have individual therapy sessions with a very experienced psychotherapist. I am pleased with the changes although I go through pain very often… As to other things- I just moved house three weeks ago, still dealing with the mess…and trying to keep the deadlines I have to meet… The diet- last four days- I don’t have the greatest appetite at the moment: Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with honey + one or two apples with strong tea Afternoon- chicken soup, home prepared + tiramisu Evening –three slices of bread with ham + tomatoes + always camomile tea Day before Morning- same as above Did not eat anything afternoon Evening- same as above Day before: Morning- same as above Afternoon- dumplings with cheese + half of chocolate Evening: three slices of bread with jam (organic elderberry jam), chamomile tea Day before: Morning- same as above Afternoon- baked potato with cheese, fresh carrots and sweet corn Evening- three slices of bread with jam I tend to eat in the same times- breakfast around 8am, lunch around 12, and supper around 6pm In my country we eat the main meal during the day, so I always try to have something warm, usually buy in canteen, like fish, pork chops, some beef…depends on my taste I like eating good chocolate, try the organic one; like drinking fruit or vegetable juices; almost don’t drink alcohol, don’t smoke anymore (for 7 years)… Lately I have a lot of cravings for sweet things. Try to eat fruits, like raspberries or strawberries… I have problems with my stomach (hiatus hernia + GERD), so I need to be very careful what I eat. Anything that contains too much chemicals, even water (!) may upset my stomach. I try to drink lots of water during the day, always have water aside my bed at night… Don’t do any sports at the moment; or honestly for few years; used to ride bicycle, walk a lot…Was thinking about joing a gym but I am unsure about the moment; it would help my blood pressure and problems with arthrits; I was thinking as well about yoga classes… It is generally very difficult for me to relax, but as I learnt people traumatised in childhood have problem with it. I don’t even try to make myself relaxed anymore as no strategy work for me. My mind is still unsure about what might happen and is in a constant mobilisation for danger. Any CBT does not work on it. I know now that I was using medication to help to switch arousal off and let me to get on with life. I did not have other resources that time… But I feel as if I wasted my life- only because I did not know what it meant to live… Thank you ikam ccreel_04064 wrote: >> hi, i am feeling very down today, had a bad night due to many flashbacks from the past and bad dreams...my blood pressure is too high again today; it was normal yesterday and i hoped it would stay that way; not today; i woke up with a headache and only hope it will not develop into migraine; i need to be intelectually bright today; i have four important deadlines, one for 30th of june...> is it possible that unstable blood pressure is related to withdrawal? if yes- how to manage it?> i am aware that apart from reduction of meds a lot is going on in my life; i can't just get holidays from everything; i must carry on...> sorry for my english, if i am not precise with something tell me, it is not my mother tongue...>>** You reduced too much of the drug too quickly. This is why you are feeling the way you are. If you were doing it the way we recommend, at this point you would have only reduced by about 30 or so milligrams. Is the Effexor an extended release formula or regular formula? If it is an extended release you will need to switch over to a regular formulation.Are you taking any other drugs? Any supplements? Please post a 4 day food and drink diary. This can be from the past 4 days.Did you read the article on Stimulation and Nervous System Overload from the files?What Flashbacks are these?Thanks.Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 " I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on... " Why feel guilty about taking time off to get your health back?? Won't you be much more productive to your company if you are well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Dear Ikam, You said: << Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. There are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I was on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand now!), the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people were talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading book and the world flashing by outside the window... > I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not looking forward to this! > I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on...>> ** What you're not understanding is that you HAVE to reduce stimulation in order to get better. This is not about preferences or what suits your life more -- it's about necessity. If you've take the time to look in the message archives you'll notice that those who adapt get better; those who don't continue to suffer. Your autonomic nervous system (ANS) has no regard for your work or social needs. It may not be pleasing or even suitable to hear what is needed, but that doesn't alter the facts -- over-stimulation causes cortisol to be pumping almost constantly. Your concern about long term damage is applicable here. High cortisol damages the brain, the heart,glucose metabolism, and just about every other major organ in your body, your adrenal system which is already significantly drained from the use of these types of drugs. Finally, the ongoing over-production of cortisol is shortening your life. Looking at the list of drugs you are taking it is clear to see that you have already experienced significant harm from thesze drugs. Most people do not make the connection, thinking instead that these disorders are " normal " and happen to people as they age. This is not true. You said: > > I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is going to be a long email because of this- sorry): > > Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 summer to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in the morning > > > Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per day (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the tablet means: regular formula) > 1. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 2. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 3. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 4. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 5. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 6. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 7. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 8. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 9.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 10. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 11. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 12.. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 13.. . am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 14.. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet > Pm 75mg capsule > 16.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 17. am 75mg capsule > pm 75mg capsule > 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet > Pm 75mg capsule > 19.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 20.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 21.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 22.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 23.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 24.. am 75mg capsule > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > 25..am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > 26.. am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > 27.. am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > 28..am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > 29.. am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > 30.. am 75mg capsule > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > 31..am 75mg capsule > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > 32. am 75mg capsule > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > 33. am 75mg capsule > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > 34..am 75mg capsule > pm 37.5 tablet > 35 am 75mg capsule > pm 37.5 tablet>> ** OK, here's the problem. While we cannot ignore the toll taken by the 23 prior years taking what must have been a number of different drugs, right now we have an acute situation where the problem is clear. Switching from an extended release product to a regular formulation is tricky. This would have taken some adjustment time even if not reducing the dose. Reducing the dose at the same time was beyond what a person's chemistry can handle. While I understand that in many people's eyes the reduction was very slow, and I applaud your doctor for trying to do the right thing, the reduction was too aggressive even without the complicating factor of the switch between drugs. The bottom line -- a successful withdrawal from an antidepressant cannot be done in 46 days. I want to make sure a question you've asked a couple of times now about Prozac is goten out of the way. Prozac will not be helpful in this situation. Venlafaxine primary action is on both serotonin and norepinephrine, while Prozac exerts its primary influence on serotonin only. The way to fix this is to go back up to a dose where you would be stable. Then, from there you would concentrate on a successflu exchange of one drug fro the other. When that has been accomplished and you are physically stable, a reduction of 10% can be done. You would then wait until all the effects of this reduction were gone and you were feeling completely stable again before doing another 10% reduction basing it on the dose you are on at each given time. This method will help you successfully get off this drug. I also wanted to answer another concern you had from another email. You said: <<I really worry that effexor made some permanent changes in my brain>> ** It has. Every psychotropic drug you've ever taken has done this. It doesn't mean you can't function. It just means you'll notice a difference. However, give the number of the drugs you've taken and the period of time in which you've taken them (alcohol is included here), you may not notice a significant difference at all. You said: > Other medication: > Atenolol for blood pressure- 50mg, at the moment increased of 25mg > epam- 1mg, half a tablet in evening > Omeprazole 40mg for stomach problems > Painkillers for headaches- paracetamol or paracetamol with codeine or tension headache tablets Syndol > Painkillers for joint paints- as above > Naramig for migraines>> ** How long have you been taking these? The Naramig coupled with the venlafaxine puts you at grave risk for serotonin syndrome. Are you sure it is 1 mg of diazepam? That is a very low dose that is not even available in the US. You're scrambling your chemostry and harming yourself with all these drugs. You seem to be caufght in the trap of believing that drugs are the answer when, in reality, drugs are the problem. You said: << Magnesium Oxide250mg + calcium carbonate 500mg>> ** A number of concerns here: 1) These should not be taken together. They can be taken 2 or more hours apart. Chances are you don't need the calcium, though. Low calcium is seldom from lack of calcium. It is most often lack of magnesium. 2) Mag oxide is the poorest for of mag available. Taurate, malate, citrate -- any one of these is better. Also, the dose is much too low. You should be getting at least 800 mg of mag daily. I'd like to see you eventually take even more. Add zinc to this as well. There are other things I would initially recommend but before I spend more time than I already have on this I have to know you're interested in what we have to offer. I know the terms are not pleasant but the fact is -- what we do and how we do it works. You said: << Vit D > Hawthorn>> ** Why Hawthorn? You said: > > Sometimes- valerian root with hopes – herbal tincture>> ** Valerian should not be taken with drugs that are serotonin agonists (you are on two -- venlafaxine and Naramig). Again, the risk here is serotonin syndrome. You said: > I was trying to use benadryl for the vertigo, but it only increased my blood pressure, stopped it… > I had to be on fluconazole due to the digestive system fungi infection (I get them when I am run down)>> ** This yet another clear indicator that these drugs are slowly killing you. You said: > > My blood pressure and headaches were fine until about 25th day I had mostly vertigo problems than seem to be coming back now when I stopped benadryl. From the very first day I felt dizzy and vertigo like, but I was thinking I was exaggerating. Only because I started to read I realised I had what other people described.>> ** So given that you went into a strong withdrawal the first day, you would need to go back to your original dose in order to become stable. We would then do a switchover more slowly. You said: > > > The flashbacks- as I have been in psychotherapy for more than 2 years some traumatic memories started to be more present. Some pictures are just so strong and I seem to have no control over them. Something is just triggered, stays with me for few days and goes away, then another memory comes… > I have admitted to being abused just in the beginning of this year. I know what happened and that it happened to me. I no longer suppress it… > Last night I had one of the difficult memories and then some significant dreams at night. Knowing something about the ptsd I understand that it causes an arousal. Some time ago I was just oversensitive, now I know the reasons and I work on them in therapy. I can't stop the process. As I said I have individual therapy sessions with a very experienced psychotherapist. I am pleased with the changes although I go through pain very often…>> ** You would be better equipped to deal with these things were you not so compromised by the drugs. Humans were designed to handle all types of difficult situations. When properly nourished and given the right tools, these things experienced as traumas are easily mitigated. BTW, I completely agree with Glitter regarding most therapy. You said: > As to other things- I just moved house three weeks ago, still dealing with the mess…and trying to keep the deadlines I have to meet…>> ** This is a great strain under > > The diet- last four days- I don't have the greatest appetite at the moment: > Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with honey + one or two apples with strong tea ** This is a complete carbohydrate breakfast. You cannot be healthy on this. > Afternoon- chicken soup, home prepared + tiramisu>> ** Again, more sugar. << Evening –three slices of bread with ham + tomatoes + always camomile tea>> ** 6 slices of white bread in one day. Ham as a protein. No vegetable except what may have been in the chicken soup (tomatoes are fruits). I'm looking at the rest of the diet below. Anyone eating this way would be diagnosed as having a mental illness. This diet does not meret even minimal standards for survival and good health. Your body runs on nutrients and you get ver few of them. In four days the only protein I se is ham and the only veg I see is carrots. Are you aware of how bad your diet is? You are not going to be able to do anything well until you begin eating properly. > Day before > Morning- same as above > > Did not eat anything afternoon > > Evening- same as above > > Day before: > Morning- same as above > > Afternoon- dumplings with cheese + half of chocolate > > Evening: three slices of bread with jam (organic elderberry jam), chamomile tea > > Day before: > Morning- same as above > > Afternoon- baked potato with cheese, fresh carrots and sweet corn > > Evening- three slices of bread with jam > > > I tend to eat in the same times- breakfast around 8am, lunch around 12, and supper around 6pm > > In my country we eat the main meal during the day, so I always try to have something warm, usually buy in canteen, like fish, pork chops, some beef…depends on my taste > I like eating good chocolate, try the organic one; like drinking fruit or vegetable juices; almost don't drink alcohol, don't smoke anymore (for 7 years)… > Lately I have a lot of cravings for sweet things. > Try to eat fruits, like raspberries or strawberries…>> ** Fruit juices are not healthy -- too much sugar. You said: << I have problems with my stomach (hiatus hernia + GERD), so I need to be very careful what I eat. Anything that contains too much chemicals, even water (!) may upset my stomach.>> ** The GERD comes from a lack of food with enzymes -- vegetables. > > I try to drink lots of water during the day, always have water aside my bed at night… > > Don't do any sports at the moment; or honestly for few years; used to ride bicycle, walk a lot…Was thinking about joing a gym but I am unsure about the moment; it would help my blood pressure and problems with arthrits; I was thinking as well about yoga classes… > > It is generally very difficult for me to relax, but as I learnt people traumatised in childhood have problem with it. I don't even try to make myself relaxed anymore as no strategy work for me. My mind is still unsure about what might happen and is in a constant mobilisation for danger. Any CBT does not work on it.>> ** The mobilization for danger is caused by the drugs -- the constant pumping of cortisol. You said: << I know now that I was using medication to help to switch arousal off and let me to get on with life. I did not have other resources that time… > But I feel as if I wasted my life- only because I did not know what it meant to live…>> ** You can reclaim your life now. Are you ready? I mean no offense but I need to be honest here. Unless this email has significantly changed how you view things, you're not going to be one of those people who comes here and successfully reaches your goals. The reason for this is that so far, you have been resistant to what people have been telling you. Hopefully, this email gives you what you need to make the choice to get well. What you will have to do first is adopt a better diet (see our file on Eating for Recovery), and go back up to your regular dose of venlafaxine in irder to stablize. You may actually try doing the latter by using all regular formula venlafaxine. This may be enough now considering how far into withdrawal ansd crisis you are. If it doesn't stabilize you in 5 days or so, you can always go back to the XL formulation. I've spent significant time on this response. Now, it's up to you to make the next steps. Finally, I recommend that you read a book titled Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Breggin. Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Thanks. I am still at home, it is Monday. I guess I need to deal with the conflict. I always feel guilty when I am off sick. At the moment it is as if I was not ill. I feel I am responsible for my functioning, maybe exaggerating the symptoms. I know I will be better later on, but I feel that I am making people dissapointed that I am not there for them.sjerrom wrote: "I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on..."Why feel guilty about taking time off to get your health back?? Won't you be much more productive to your company if you are well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Dear Ikam, It sounds like public transit is part of the overstimulation in your life. I use earplugs constantly. They are cheap ones I buy at the drugstore and use for a week then discard. I wear them at work. As soon as someone walks up to my desk, I remove them. I put them back in when they leave. I can even conduct simple conversations while wearing them. People in the office thought it was strange at first, but they got used to it. Even if I can only wear them 15 minutes out of the hour, they help a lot! If I had to use public transit, I would go to work extra early or do something to avoid rush hour. I would wear the earplugs on the train, and possibly dark glasses. I would also cancel any plans for people to visit my house. It's just too much on top of what you're going through. Just a few thoughts, Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2006 Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 , I need to think some more about what you wrote. Thank you...I will come back... ikamccreel_04064 wrote: Dear Ikam,You said:<< Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. There are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I was on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand now!), the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people were talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading book and the world flashing by outside the window...> I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not looking forward to this! > I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on...>>** What you're not understanding is that you HAVE to reduce stimulation in order to get better. This is not about preferences or what suits your life more -- it's about necessity. If you've take the time to look in the message archives you'll notice that those who adapt get better; those who don't continue to suffer. Your autonomic nervous system (ANS) has no regard for your work or social needs. It may not be pleasing or even suitable to hear what is needed, but that doesn't alter the facts -- over-stimulation causes cortisol to be pumping almost constantly. Your concern about long term damage is applicable here. High cortisol damages the brain, the heart,glucose metabolism, and just about every other major organ in your body, your adrenal system which is already significantly drained from the use of these types of drugs. Finally, the ongoing over-production of cortisol is shortening your life. Looking at the list of drugs you are taking it is clear to see that you have already experienced significant harm from thesze drugs. Most people do not make the connection, thinking instead that these disorders are "normal" and happen to people as they age. This is not true.You said:> > I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is going to be a long email because of this- sorry):> > Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 summer to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in the morning> > > Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per day (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the tablet means: regular formula)> 1. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 2. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 3. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 4. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 5. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 6. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 7. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 8. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 9.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 10. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 11. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 12.. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 13.. . am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 14.. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet> Pm 75mg capsule> 16.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 17. am 75mg capsule> pm 75mg capsule> 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet> Pm 75mg capsule> 19.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 20.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 21.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 22.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 23.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 24.. am 75mg capsule> pm 2x37.5mg tablet> 25..am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ¾ of tablet> 26.. am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ¾ of tablet> 27.. am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ¾ of tablet> 28..am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ½ of tablet> 29.. am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ½ of tablet> 30.. am 75mg capsule> pm 1+ ½ of tablet> 31..am 75mg capsule> pm 1 + ¼ of tablet> 32. am 75mg capsule> pm 1 + ¼ of tablet> 33. am 75mg capsule> pm 1 + ¼ of tablet> 34..am 75mg capsule> pm 37.5 tablet> 35 am 75mg capsule> pm 37.5 tablet>>** OK, here's the problem. While we cannot ignore the toll taken by the 23 prior years taking what must have been a number of different drugs, right now we have an acute situation where the problem is clear. Switching from an extended release product to a regular formulation is tricky. This would have taken some adjustment time even if not reducing the dose. Reducing the dose at the same time was beyond what a person's chemistry can handle. While I understand that in many people's eyes the reduction was very slow, and I applaud your doctor for trying to do the right thing, the reduction was too aggressive even without the complicating factor of the switch between drugs. The bottom line -- a successful withdrawal from an antidepressant cannot be done in 46 days.I want to make sure a question you've asked a couple of times now about Prozac is goten out of the way. Prozac will not be helpful in this situation. Venlafaxine primary action is on both serotonin and norepinephrine, while Prozac exerts its primary influence on serotonin only.The way to fix this is to go back up to a dose where you would be stable. Then, from there you would concentrate on a successflu exchange of one drug fro the other. When that has been accomplished and you are physically stable, a reduction of 10% can be done. You would then wait until all the effects of this reduction were gone and you were feeling completely stable again before doing another 10% reduction basing it on the dose you are on at each given time. This method will help you successfully get off this drug. I also wanted to answer another concern you had from another email. You said:<<I really worry that effexor made some permanent changes in my brain>>** It has. Every psychotropic drug you've ever taken has done this. It doesn't mean you can't function. It just means you'll notice a difference. However, give the number of the drugs you've taken and the period of time in which you've taken them (alcohol is included here), you may not notice a significant difference at all.You said:> Other medication:> Atenolol for blood pressure- 50mg, at the moment increased of 25mg> epam- 1mg, half a tablet in evening> Omeprazole 40mg for stomach problems> Painkillers for headaches- paracetamol or paracetamol with codeine or tension headache tablets Syndol> Painkillers for joint paints- as above> Naramig for migraines>>** How long have you been taking these? The Naramig coupled with the venlafaxine puts you at grave risk for serotonin syndrome.Are you sure it is 1 mg of diazepam? That is a very low dose that is not even available in the US.You're scrambling your chemostry and harming yourself with all these drugs. You seem to be caufght in the trap of believing that drugs are the answer when, in reality, drugs are the problem.You said:<< Magnesium Oxide250mg + calcium carbonate 500mg>>** A number of concerns here:1) These should not be taken together. They can be taken 2 or more hours apart. Chances are you don't need the calcium, though. Low calcium is seldom from lack of calcium. It is most often lack of magnesium. 2) Mag oxide is the poorest for of mag available. Taurate, malate, citrate -- any one of these is better. Also, the dose is much too low. You should be getting at least 800 mg of mag daily. I'd like to see you eventually take even more. Add zinc to this as well.There are other things I would initially recommend but before I spend more time than I already have on this I have to know you're interested in what we have to offer. I know the terms are not pleasant but the fact is -- what we do and how we do it works. You said:<< Vit D> Hawthorn>>** Why Hawthorn?You said:> > Sometimes- valerian root with hopes – herbal tincture>>** Valerian should not be taken with drugs that are serotonin agonists (you are on two -- venlafaxine and Naramig). Again, the risk here is serotonin syndrome.You said:> I was trying to use benadryl for the vertigo, but it only increased my blood pressure, stopped it…> I had to be on fluconazole due to the digestive system fungi infection (I get them when I am run down)>>** This yet another clear indicator that these drugs are slowly killing you.You said:> > My blood pressure and headaches were fine until about 25th day I had mostly vertigo problems than seem to be coming back now when I stopped benadryl. From the very first day I felt dizzy and vertigo like, but I was thinking I was exaggerating. Only because I started to read I realised I had what other people described.>>** So given that you went into a strong withdrawal the first day, you would need to go back to your original dose in order to become stable. We would then do a switchover more slowly.You said:> > > The flashbacks- as I have been in psychotherapy for more than 2 years some traumatic memories started to be more present. Some pictures are just so strong and I seem to have no control over them. Something is just triggered, stays with me for few days and goes away, then another memory comes…> I have admitted to being abused just in the beginning of this year. I know what happened and that it happened to me. I no longer suppress it…> Last night I had one of the difficult memories and then some significant dreams at night. Knowing something about the ptsd I understand that it causes an arousal. Some time ago I was just oversensitive, now I know the reasons and I work on them in therapy. I can't stop the process. As I said I have individual therapy sessions with a very experienced psychotherapist. I am pleased with the changes although I go through pain very often…>>** You would be better equipped to deal with these things were you not so compromised by the drugs. Humans were designed to handle all types of difficult situations. When properly nourished and given the right tools, these things experienced as traumas are easily mitigated.BTW, I completely agree with Glitter regarding most therapy.You said:> As to other things- I just moved house three weeks ago, still dealing with the mess…and trying to keep the deadlines I have to meet…>>** This is a great strain under> > The diet- last four days- I don't have the greatest appetite at the moment:> Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with honey + one or two apples with strong tea ** This is a complete carbohydrate breakfast. You cannot be healthy on this.> Afternoon- chicken soup, home prepared + tiramisu>>** Again, more sugar. << Evening –three slices of bread with ham + tomatoes + always camomile tea>>** 6 slices of white bread in one day. Ham as a protein. No vegetable except what may have been in the chicken soup (tomatoes are fruits). I'm looking at the rest of the diet below. Anyone eating this way would be diagnosed as having a mental illness. This diet does not meret even minimal standards for survival and good health. Your body runs on nutrients and you get ver few of them. In four days the only protein I se is ham and the only veg I see is carrots.Are you aware of how bad your diet is? You are not going to be able to do anything welluntil you begin eating properly. > Day before> Morning- same as above> > Did not eat anything afternoon> > Evening- same as above> > Day before:> Morning- same as above> > Afternoon- dumplings with cheese + half of chocolate> > Evening: three slices of bread with jam (organic elderberry jam), chamomile tea> > Day before:> Morning- same as above> > Afternoon- baked potato with cheese, fresh carrots and sweet corn> > Evening- three slices of bread with jam> > > I tend to eat in the same times- breakfast around 8am, lunch around 12, and supper around 6pm> > In my country we eat the main meal during the day, so I always try to have something warm, usually buy in canteen, like fish, pork chops, some beef…depends on my taste> I like eating good chocolate, try the organic one; like drinking fruit or vegetable juices; almost don't drink alcohol, don't smoke anymore (for 7 years)…> Lately I have a lot of cravings for sweet things.> Try to eat fruits, like raspberries or strawberries…>>** Fruit juices are not healthy -- too much sugar.You said:<< I have problems with my stomach (hiatus hernia + GERD), so I need to be very careful what I eat. Anything that contains too much chemicals, even water (!) may upset my stomach.>>** The GERD comes from a lack of food with enzymes -- vegetables.> > I try to drink lots of water during the day, always have water aside my bed at night…> > Don't do any sports at the moment; or honestly for few years; used to ride bicycle, walk a lot…Was thinking about joing a gym but I am unsure about the moment; it would help my blood pressure and problems with arthrits; I was thinking as well about yoga classes…> > It is generally very difficult for me to relax, but as I learnt people traumatised in childhood have problem with it. I don't even try to make myself relaxed anymore as no strategy work for me. My mind is still unsure about what might happen and is in a constant mobilisation for danger. Any CBT does not work on it.>>** The mobilization for danger is caused by the drugs -- the constant pumping of cortisol.You said:<< I know now that I was using medication to help to switch arousal off and let me to get on with life. I did not have other resources that time…> But I feel as if I wasted my life- only because I did not know what it meant to live…>>** You can reclaim your life now. Are you ready? I mean no offense but I need to be honest here. Unless this email has significantly changed how you view things, you're not going to be one of those people who comes here and successfully reaches your goals. The reason for this is that so far, you have been resistant to what people have been telling you. Hopefully, this email gives you what you need to make the choice to get well. What you will have to do first is adopt a better diet (see our file on Eating for Recovery), and go back up to your regular dose of venlafaxine in irder to stablize. You may actually try doing the latter by using all regular formula venlafaxine. This may be enough now considering how far into withdrawal ansd crisis you are. If it doesn't stabilize you in 5 days or so, you can always go back to the XL formulation.I've spent significant time on this response. Now, it's up to you to make the next steps. Finally, I recommend that you read a book titled Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Breggin.Regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 , thank you for your advice. I have never thought about using earplugs outside my house. I sleep using them, can't stand any noise during the night. And, yes, the noise outside seems to annoy me and i react strongely to signals I should not do. At the moment I can't listen to my music, it is too much...I may try earplugs to get off the sound of traffic and people. As to work I have an office on my own, so I can have my silent time. Different when I am with the client, I need to listen for one hour... I decided to get back to my usual routine. Staying home is all right, I switch off everything, but as well any positive stimulation, which I need. I was out yesterday and I enjoyed being with people. When I am on my own things seem to grow bigger and I worry too much. So tomorrow I am going back to my normal work. For today "contracted" myself to write an essay. I will feel better afterwards... Thank you again Ikam Skoog wrote: Dear Ikam, It sounds like public transit is part of the overstimulation in your life. I use earplugs constantly. They are cheap ones I buy at the drugstore and use for a week then discard. I wear them at work. As soon as someone walks up to my desk, I remove them. I put them back in when they leave. I can even conduct simple conversations while wearing them. People in the office thought it was strange at first, but they got used to it. Even if I can only wear them 15 minutes out of the hour, they help a lot! If I had to use public transit, I would go to work extra early or do something to avoid rush hour. I would wear the earplugs on the train, and possibly dark glasses. I would also cancel any plans for people to visit my house. It's just too much on top of what you're going through. Just a few thoughts, Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Hi , I am still here. I have taken no decision as yet. I am struggling with the feeling of a failure. I am back on 150mg of Effexor...All my trying was worth nothing! At the moment I am taking 75mg capsule in the morning and 75mg tablet in evening. Should I go to the tablet form only? I need to get of it as I have treatment related high blood pressure. But today I feel like having no energy to do anything... I am back in work...I have to go to work. My situation is too complex and I can't lose this job...It is the best thing I have- my work... As to Diasepam- I take only half of 2mg tablet... I guess I am feeling sorry for myself today, I cried a lot- it never happened before I tried to decrease Effexor. I am full of pains and aches. My body condition is getting worse- I am really worried because in last 2 years the arthritis has got worse. I may have hip problem and my knee is just killing me... The best I will go to sleep, forget... You said that there is a need to make a liquid solution in order to tapper effexor. Is this something you consider to talk about over the phone? I will never eat anything else for breakfast, I have eaten like this for most of my life... As to medications- my father was a...psychiatrist...My first antibiotics were given to me when I was 0.5 year old. Then I had antibiotics about twice a year...I was hospitalised 8 times already...My father gave me some hormonal meds and as well diasepam and hydroxisine, when I was younger...I started to drink when I was 14, very heavily when I was 18...My father died when I was 16...Then when I was 23 I was put to psychiatry unit and they gave me Sinequan, Haloperidol and relised on Pernazine. Then I was on Amitryptiline for few years, taking sleeping pills (reladorm) and something to get me more active in the morning. Then signopam was introduced, then Anafranil...Sleeping pills in the meantime...Prozac in some point...And then Paroxetine and then Effexor... My body is old, older that me...I am constatly ill, different things all the time, every antibiotic treatment finishes with an east infection...My blood pressure does not get stabilised on any meds. I can't really take anything for arthritism because of my stomach, etc...Maybe I am already dead... I thought about starting to go to gym or at least riding my bike, but I feel...to weak... Me? Too weak? Is it me or my shadow??? ikam > > Dear Ikam, > > > > You said: > > > << Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree > with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too > much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. There > are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I was > on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand now!), > the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people were > talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very > strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many > impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading book > and the world flashing by outside the window... > > I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work > (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my > deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not > looking forward to this! > > I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two more- I > am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on...>> > > > > ** What you're not understanding is that you HAVE to reduce > stimulation in order to get better. This is not about preferences > or what suits your life more -- it's about necessity. If you've > take the time to look in the message archives you'll notice that > those who adapt get better; those who don't continue to suffer. Your > autonomic nervous system (ANS) has no regard for your work or social > needs. It may not be pleasing or even suitable to hear what is > needed, but that doesn't alter the facts -- over-stimulation causes > cortisol to be pumping almost constantly. Your concern about long > term damage is applicable here. High cortisol damages the brain, > the heart,glucose metabolism, and just about every other major organ > in your body, your adrenal system which is already significantly > drained from the use of these types of drugs. Finally, the ongoing > over-production of cortisol is shortening your life. > > > Looking at the list of drugs you are taking it is clear to see > that you have already experienced significant harm from thesze > drugs. Most people do not make the connection, thinking instead > that these disorders are " normal " and happen to people as they age. > This is not true. > > > You said: > > > > > I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is going > to be a long email because of this- sorry): > > > > Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 summer > to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in the > morning > > > > > > Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per day > (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the tablet > means: regular formula) > > 1. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 2. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 3. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 4. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 5. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 6. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 7. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 8. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 9.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 10. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 11. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 12.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 13.. . am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 14.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet > > Pm 75mg capsule > > 16.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 17. am 75mg capsule > > pm 75mg capsule > > 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet > > Pm 75mg capsule > > 19.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 20.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 21.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 22.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 23.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 24.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > 25..am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > > 26.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > > 27.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ¾ of tablet > > 28..am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > > 29.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > > 30.. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1+ ½ of tablet > > 31..am 75mg capsule > > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > > 32. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > > 33. am 75mg capsule > > pm 1 + ¼ of tablet > > 34..am 75mg capsule > > pm 37.5 tablet > > 35 am 75mg capsule > > pm 37.5 tablet>> > > > > ** OK, here's the problem. While we cannot ignore the toll > taken by the 23 prior years taking what must have been a number of > different drugs, right now we have an acute situation where the > problem is clear. > > > Switching from an extended release product to a regular > formulation is tricky. This would have taken some adjustment time > even if not reducing the dose. Reducing the dose at the same time > was beyond what a person's chemistry can handle. While I understand > that in many people's eyes the reduction was very slow, and I > applaud your doctor for trying to do the right thing, the reduction > was too aggressive even without the complicating factor of the > switch between drugs. The bottom line -- a successful withdrawal > from an antidepressant cannot be done in 46 days. > > > I want to make sure a question you've asked a couple of times > now about Prozac is goten out of the way. Prozac will not be > helpful in this situation. Venlafaxine primary action is on both > serotonin and norepinephrine, while Prozac exerts its primary > influence on serotonin only. > > > The way to fix this is to go back up to a dose where you would > be stable. Then, from there you would concentrate on a successflu > exchange of one drug fro the other. When that has been > accomplished and you are physically stable, a reduction of 10% can > be done. You would then wait until all the effects of this > reduction were gone and you were feeling completely stable again > before doing another 10% reduction basing it on the dose you are on > at each given time. This method will help you successfully get off > this drug. > > > > I also wanted to answer another concern you had from another > email. You said: > > <<I really worry that effexor made some permanent changes in my > brain>> > > > > ** It has. Every psychotropic drug you've ever taken has done > this. It doesn't mean you can't function. It just means you'll > notice a difference. However, give the number of the drugs you've > taken and the period of time in which you've taken them (alcohol is > included here), you may not notice a significant difference at all. > > > You said: > > > > Other medication: > > Atenolol for blood pressure- 50mg, at the moment increased of > 25mg > > epam- 1mg, half a tablet in evening > > Omeprazole 40mg for stomach problems > > Painkillers for headaches- paracetamol or paracetamol with > codeine or tension headache tablets Syndol > > Painkillers for joint paints- as above > > Naramig for migraines>> > > > ** How long have you been taking these? The Naramig coupled > with the venlafaxine puts you at grave risk for serotonin syndrome. > > > Are you sure it is 1 mg of diazepam? That is a very low dose that > is not even available in the US. > > > > You're scrambling your chemostry and harming yourself with all > these drugs. You seem to be caufght in the trap of believing that > drugs are the answer when, in reality, drugs are the problem. > > > You said: > > > > > << Magnesium Oxide250mg + calcium carbonate 500mg>> > > > ** A number of concerns here: > > 1) These should not be taken together. They can be taken 2 or more > hours apart. Chances are you don't need the calcium, though. Low > calcium is seldom from lack of calcium. It is most often lack of > magnesium. > > 2) Mag oxide is the poorest for of mag available. Taurate, malate, > citrate -- any one of these is better. Also, the dose is much too > low. You should be getting at least 800 mg of mag daily. I'd like > to see you eventually take even more. Add zinc to this as well. > > > > There are other things I would initially recommend but before I > spend more time than I already have on this I have to know you're > interested in what we have to offer. I know the terms are not > pleasant but the fact is -- what we do and how we do it works. > > > > You said: > > > << Vit D > > Hawthorn>> > > > > ** Why Hawthorn? > > > You said: > > > > Sometimes- valerian root with hopes – herbal tincture>> > > > > ** Valerian should not be taken with drugs that are serotonin > agonists (you are on two -- venlafaxine and Naramig). Again, the > risk here is serotonin syndrome. > > > You said: > > > > I was trying to use benadryl for the vertigo, but it only > increased my blood pressure, stopped it… > > I had to be on fluconazole due to the digestive system fungi > infection (I get them when I am run down)>> > > > > ** This yet another clear indicator that these drugs are > slowly killing you. > > > You said: > > > > My blood pressure and headaches were fine until about 25th day > I had mostly vertigo problems than seem to be coming back now when I > stopped benadryl. From the very first day I felt dizzy and vertigo > like, but I was thinking I was exaggerating. Only because I started > to read I realised I had what other people described.>> > > > ** So given that you went into a strong withdrawal the first > day, you would need to go back to your original dose in order to > become stable. We would then do a switchover more slowly. > > > You said: > > > > > > The flashbacks- as I have been in psychotherapy for more than 2 > years some traumatic memories started to be more present. Some > pictures are just so strong and I seem to have no control over them. > Something is just triggered, stays with me for few days and goes > away, then another memory comes… > > I have admitted to being abused just in the beginning of this > year. I know what happened and that it happened to me. I no longer > suppress it… > > Last night I had one of the difficult memories and then some > significant dreams at night. Knowing something about the ptsd I > understand that it causes an arousal. Some time ago I was just > oversensitive, now I know the reasons and I work on them in therapy. > I can't stop the process. As I said I have individual therapy > sessions with a very experienced psychotherapist. I am pleased with > the changes although I go through pain very often…>> > > > > ** You would be better equipped to deal with these things were > you not so compromised by the drugs. Humans were designed to handle > all types of difficult situations. When properly nourished and > given the right tools, these things experienced as traumas are > easily mitigated. > > > BTW, I completely agree with Glitter regarding most therapy. > > > You said: > > > > > As to other things- I just moved house three weeks ago, still > dealing with the mess…and trying to keep the deadlines I have to > meet…>> > > > > ** This is a great strain under > > > > The diet- last four days- I don't have the greatest appetite at > the moment: > > Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with > honey + one or two apples with strong tea > > > > ** This is a complete carbohydrate breakfast. You cannot be > healthy on this. > > > > Afternoon- chicken soup, home prepared + tiramisu>> > > > ** Again, more sugar. > > > > << Evening –three slices of bread with ham + tomatoes + always > camomile tea>> > > > > ** 6 slices of white bread in one day. Ham as a protein. No > vegetable except what may have been in the chicken soup (tomatoes > are fruits). I'm looking at the rest of the diet below. Anyone > eating this way would be diagnosed as having a mental illness. This > diet does not meret even minimal standards for survival and good > health. Your body runs on nutrients and you get ver few of them. > > In four days the only protein I se is ham and the only veg I see > is carrots. > > > Are you aware of how bad your diet is? You are not going to > be able to do anything well > > > until you begin eating properly. > > Day before > > Morning- same as above > > > > Did not eat anything afternoon > > > > Evening- same as above > > > > Day before: > > Morning- same as above > > > > Afternoon- dumplings with cheese + half of chocolate > > > > Evening: three slices of bread with jam (organic elderberry > jam), chamomile tea > > > > Day before: > > Morning- same as above > > > > Afternoon- baked potato with cheese, fresh carrots and sweet corn > > > > Evening- three slices of bread with jam > > > > > > I tend to eat in the same times- breakfast around 8am, lunch > around 12, and supper around 6pm > > > > In my country we eat the main meal during the day, so I always > try to have something warm, usually buy in canteen, like fish, pork > chops, some beef…depends on my taste > > I like eating good chocolate, try the organic one; like drinking > fruit or vegetable juices; almost don't drink alcohol, don't smoke > anymore (for 7 years)… > > Lately I have a lot of cravings for sweet things. > > Try to eat fruits, like raspberries or strawberries…>> > > > > ** Fruit juices are not healthy -- too much sugar. > > > > You said: > > << I have problems with my stomach (hiatus hernia + GERD), so I > need to be very careful what I eat. Anything that contains too much > chemicals, even water (!) may upset my stomach.>> > > > ** The GERD comes from a lack of food with enzymes -- vegetables. > > > > > > I try to drink lots of water during the day, always have water > aside my bed at night… > > > > Don't do any sports at the moment; or honestly for few years; > used to ride bicycle, walk a lot…Was thinking about joing a gym but > I am unsure about the moment; it would help my blood pressure and > problems with arthrits; I was thinking as well about yoga classes… > > > > It is generally very difficult for me to relax, but as I learnt > people traumatised in childhood have problem with it. I don't even > try to make myself relaxed anymore as no strategy work for me. My > mind is still unsure about what might happen and is in a constant > mobilisation for danger. Any CBT does not work on it.>> > > > > ** The mobilization for danger is caused by the drugs -- the > constant pumping of cortisol. > > > You said: > > > << I know now that I was using medication to help to switch > arousal off and let me to get on with life. I did not have other > resources that time… > > But I feel as if I wasted my life- only because I did not know > what it meant to live…>> > > > ** You can reclaim your life now. Are you ready? I mean no > offense but I need to be honest here. Unless this email has > significantly changed how you view things, you're not going to be > one of those people who comes here and successfully reaches your > goals. The reason for this is that so far, you have been resistant > to what people have been telling you. Hopefully, this email gives > you what you need to make the choice to get well. What you will > have to do first is adopt a better diet (see our file on Eating for > Recovery), and go back up to your regular dose of venlafaxine in > irder to stablize. You may actually try doing the latter by using > all regular formula venlafaxine. This may be enough now > considering how far into withdrawal ansd crisis you are. If it > doesn't stabilize you in 5 days or so, you can always go back to the > XL formulation. > > > I've spent significant time on this response. Now, it's up to you > to make the next steps. > > > Finally, I recommend that you read a book titled Your Drug May Be > Your Problem by Breggin. > > > Regards, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Dear Ikam - I wish you peace today and some wisdom that would come from listening to your body. It is what I wish for myself everyday. This is a hard process, all this change and adjustment. You are here for a reason, so am I. Each day my prayer is...find the reason. Be at peace. - kriss --- nemoikam wrote: > Hi , > > I am still here. I have taken no decision as yet. I am struggling > with the feeling of a failure. > I am back on 150mg of Effexor...All my trying was worth nothing! At > > the moment I am taking 75mg capsule in the morning and 75mg tablet > in evening. Should I go to the tablet form only? > > I need to get of it as I have treatment related high blood > pressure. > But today I feel like having no energy to do anything... > > I am back in work...I have to go to work. My situation is too > complex and I can't lose this job...It is the best thing I have- my > > work... > > As to Diasepam- I take only half of 2mg tablet... > > I guess I am feeling sorry for myself today, I cried a lot- it > never > happened before I tried to decrease Effexor. > I am full of pains and aches. My body condition is getting worse- I > > am really worried because in last 2 years the arthritis has got > worse. I may have hip problem and my knee is just killing me... > > The best I will go to sleep, forget... > > You said that there is a need to make a liquid solution in order to > > tapper effexor. Is this something you consider to talk about over > the phone? > > I will never eat anything else for breakfast, I have eaten like > this > for most of my life... > > As to medications- my father was a...psychiatrist...My first > antibiotics were given to me when I was 0.5 year old. Then I had > antibiotics about twice a year...I was hospitalised 8 times > already...My father gave me some hormonal meds and as well diasepam > > and hydroxisine, when I was younger...I started to drink when I was > > 14, very heavily when I was 18...My father died when I was > 16...Then > when I was 23 I was put to psychiatry unit and they gave me > Sinequan, Haloperidol and relised on Pernazine. Then I was on > Amitryptiline for few years, taking sleeping pills (reladorm) and > something to get me more active in the morning. Then signopam was > introduced, then Anafranil...Sleeping pills in the > meantime...Prozac > in some point...And then Paroxetine and then Effexor... > > My body is old, older that me...I am constatly ill, different > things > all the time, every antibiotic treatment finishes with an east > infection...My blood pressure does not get stabilised on any meds. > I > can't really take anything for arthritism because of my stomach, > etc...Maybe I am already dead... > > I thought about starting to go to gym or at least riding my bike, > but I feel...to weak... > Me? Too weak? Is it me or my shadow??? > > ikam > > > > > > > > Dear Ikam, > > > > > > > > You said: > > > > > > << Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree > > > with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too > > much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. > There > > are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I > was > > on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand > now!), > > the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people > were > > talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very > > > strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many > > impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading > book > > and the world flashing by outside the window... > > > I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work > > > (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my > > deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not > > > looking forward to this! > > > I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two > more- > I > > am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on...>> > > > > > > > > ** What you're not understanding is that you HAVE to reduce > > stimulation in order to get better. This is not about > preferences > > or what suits your life more -- it's about necessity. If you've > > > take the time to look in the message archives you'll notice that > > those who adapt get better; those who don't continue to suffer. > Your > > autonomic nervous system (ANS) has no regard for your work or > social > > needs. It may not be pleasing or even suitable to hear what is > > needed, but that doesn't alter the facts -- over-stimulation > causes > > cortisol to be pumping almost constantly. Your concern about > long > > term damage is applicable here. High cortisol damages the brain, > > > the heart,glucose metabolism, and just about every other major > organ > > in your body, your adrenal system which is already significantly > > drained from the use of these types of drugs. Finally, the > ongoing > > over-production of cortisol is shortening your life. > > > > > > Looking at the list of drugs you are taking it is clear to see > > > that you have already experienced significant harm from thesze > > drugs. Most people do not make the connection, thinking instead > > that these disorders are " normal " and happen to people as they > age. > > This is not true. > > > > > > You said: > > > > > > > > I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is > going > > to be a long email because of this- sorry): > > > > > > Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 > summer > > to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in > the > > morning > > > > > > > > > Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per > day > > (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the > tablet > > means: regular formula) > > > 1. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 2. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 3. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 4. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 5. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 6. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 7. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 8. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 9.. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 10. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 11. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 12.. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 13.. . am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 14.. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet > > > Pm 75mg capsule > > > 16.. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > 17. am 75mg capsule > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet > > > Pm 75mg capsule > === message truncated === it's okay to love your country right or wrong, but it's not right to be silent when your country is wrong - Bill Moyer's speech to graduating class of 2006 www.commondreams.org/views06/0522-35.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Ikam, You feel awful and you're having a hard time. I sympathise, and I think many members of this list know just what it's like to go through this. It is good that you have followed 's advice about going back to an Effexor dose at which you are stable. That isn't failure, it's you taking care of your needs. Other people here have been desperate to get off their drugs, have tapered too fast or not at all, and have either gone back to start over, or have suffered a long time from the damage that the fast withdrawal did to their bodies. I came off my drug too quickly and I wish I hadn't. You are doing the right thing. It will take time but it will be worth it. You do, however, need to continue to follow 's advice if you want to make progress. You said that you are unwilling to change your breakfast because you've eaten like this all your life. Your breakfast is, I quote: " Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with honey + one or two apples with strong tea " Eating like this is a big reason why you got ill in the first place, and it will continue to make you ill. told you it was unhealthy. You are giving yourself simple-carbohydrate overload and are not taking in the essential nutrients your body needs like protein, fats, and complex carbohydrates. Much of your eating throughout the day is similar to this. You are starving yourself of nutrition, Ikam, and nutrition is the very thing that's going to save you from the problems you're experiencing. Please look again at the files you were sent when you joined the list, particularly the ones about what to eat. What changes do you think you could start to make straight away? Maybe we can help if you've got questions or concerns. If you want to start feeling better straight away then this is how you can do it. Getting some good food into you, some nutrition and some vitamins, will do just that, and you'll be glad you did. Best, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 , thank you...I am better today. Woke up with the decision to contact personally. I realised by reading e-mails that I need to change a lot...I will stay for some time on a dose of effexor i had. I agree with that I am not strong enough to do anything more. I feel I need to balance myself emotionally, but I agree I need to do something with other things... As to food I have a big problem, because I react strongely to changes in diet. I have problems with my stomach. I usually say I like eating everything, but my stomach does not. So I avoid anything that can irritate me and make me feeling sick. I can't take any milk products, can't eat anything with onions, garlic, cucumber, radish, cabbage...It seems that just carrot suits me...I sometimes would eat some veg from soup. I cook often soups; boiled things don't irritate me, so if I eat meat it is mostly boiled one...Beef, I may react to it...I eat white bread, because I react to any rye bread...I am talking mostly about indigestion, but if I make mistake I may have bad nausea and eventually pain during the night... I am waiting now for some assessment, scared of it, it will be 24 hours monitoring, I will have something installed, inserted to my stomach...None of medication really work, so they think I will maybe need operation... So if I object to changing diet, it is because I am scared of the symptoms I may get, but I am willing to try... I am tired of my recent illnesses...My health has deterirated rapidly. I am constatly on some medication that eventually stops working and I have to change again...I had very bad anemia last year, bleeding from my nose, that needed a little operation, etc. It must finish, or I will die... Strangely, I wanted to die all my life, but now I want to stay alive, but my body is dying... ikam > > Ikam, > > You feel awful and you're having a hard time. I sympathise, and I > think many members of this list know just what it's like to go > through this. > > It is good that you have followed 's advice about going > back to an Effexor dose at which you are stable. That isn't failure, > it's you taking care of your needs. Other people here have been > desperate to get off their drugs, have tapered too fast or not at > all, and have either gone back to start over, or have suffered a > long time from the damage that the fast withdrawal did to their > bodies. I came off my drug too quickly and I wish I hadn't. You are > doing the right thing. It will take time but it will be worth it. > > You do, however, need to continue to follow 's advice if > you want to make progress. > > You said that you are unwilling to change your breakfast because > you've eaten like this all your life. Your breakfast is, I quote: > > " Morning it is always two or three slices of white bread with honey > + one or two apples with strong tea " > > Eating like this is a big reason why you got ill in the first place, > and it will continue to make you ill. told you it was > unhealthy. You are giving yourself simple-carbohydrate overload and > are not taking in the essential nutrients your body needs like > protein, fats, and complex carbohydrates. Much of your eating > throughout the day is similar to this. You are starving yourself of > nutrition, Ikam, and nutrition is the very thing that's going to > save you from the problems you're experiencing. > > Please look again at the files you were sent when you joined the > list, particularly the ones about what to eat. What changes do you > think you could start to make straight away? Maybe we can help if > you've got questions or concerns. If you want to start feeling > better straight away then this is how you can do it. Getting some > good food into you, some nutrition and some vitamins, will do just > that, and you'll be glad you did. > > Best, > . > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Kriss- thank you- ikam > > > > > > Dear Ikam, > > > > > > > > > > > > You said: > > > > > > > > > << Yes, I read the info about overstimulation and I would agree > > > > > with it as it descibes the way I feel, as if I was reacting too > > > much, but as well as if I had to learn things I knew before. > > There > > > are times when I feel like I am faced with too many impulses. I > > was > > > on a crowded bus once, sitting backwards (that I can't stand > > now!), > > > the world was moving, somebody was listening to music, people > > were > > > talking...I thought it was a normal sitaution, but I reacted very > > > > > strongely and as if I had to learn how to experience so many > > > impulses...Another problem I had when I was on train, reading > > book > > > and the world flashing by outside the window... > > > > I can't remove some things from my life, I have to go to work > > > > > (working with people; responsible position), I have to meet my > > > deadlines...My friens are coming over for two weeks- and I am not > > > > > looking forward to this! > > > > I have taken two days off sick, but consider to take two > > more- > > I > > > am feeling very guilty about this, I feel I should carry on...>> > > > > > > > > > > > > ** What you're not understanding is that you HAVE to reduce > > > stimulation in order to get better. This is not about > > preferences > > > or what suits your life more -- it's about necessity. If you've > > > > > take the time to look in the message archives you'll notice that > > > those who adapt get better; those who don't continue to suffer. > > Your > > > autonomic nervous system (ANS) has no regard for your work or > > social > > > needs. It may not be pleasing or even suitable to hear what is > > > needed, but that doesn't alter the facts -- over-stimulation > > causes > > > cortisol to be pumping almost constantly. Your concern about > > long > > > term damage is applicable here. High cortisol damages the brain, > > > > > the heart,glucose metabolism, and just about every other major > > organ > > > in your body, your adrenal system which is already significantly > > > drained from the use of these types of drugs. Finally, the > > ongoing > > > over-production of cortisol is shortening your life. > > > > > > > > > Looking at the list of drugs you are taking it is clear to see > > > > > that you have already experienced significant harm from thesze > > > drugs. Most people do not make the connection, thinking instead > > > that these disorders are " normal " and happen to people as they > > age. > > > This is not true. > > > > > > > > > You said: > > > > > > > > > > > I am sending my schedule- the way of my reduction (it is > > going > > > to be a long email because of this- sorry): > > > > > > > > Prior to the reduction I was firstly on Paxil from 2001 > > summer > > > to 2002 spring. The was swapped to the Effexor 150mg capsule in > > the > > > morning > > > > > > > > > > > > Reduction of venlafaxine from 2x 75 mg to 1x75mg capsule per > > day > > > (when I say capsule- it means: extended release formula, the > > tablet > > > means: regular formula) > > > > 1. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 2. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 3. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 4. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 5. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 6. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 7. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 8. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 9.. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 10. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 11. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 12.. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 13.. . am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 14.. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 15..am 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > Pm 75mg capsule > > > > 16.. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > 17. am 75mg capsule > > > > pm 75mg capsule > > > > 18.. am 2x37.5mg tablet > > > > Pm 75mg capsule > > > === message truncated === > > > it's okay to love your country right or wrong, > but it's not right to be silent when your country is wrong > - Bill Moyer's speech to graduating class of 2006 > www.commondreams.org/views06/0522-35.htm > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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