Re: Newbie Questions

[Guest guest]

I agree with Francesca. Though I am very careful to give advice because even

though I can think logically through the different issues I don't know

enough about the science behind CR and how the different nutrients work

within the body.

However, less calories but nutrient dense food seems to be the key to making

CR work in animals, and I hope in humans.

3 years ago I tried doing CR and failed miserably, I ate far too little fat.

Following a more Zone type of diet has really helped. I get more calories

from fat. My wife is pleased that I'm not cranky, or in a bad mood. It's

important that the calories come from healthy fat sources, like fish or flax

seed and to a lesser extent cold pressed Virgin Oil.

fskelton@... wrote:

> Francesca wrote:

>

> First newbie's questions:

> I am very new to the practice of CR, although I read Dr. Walford's

> books 2

> years ago. As a matter of fact, I haven't begun in full because I

> am

> confused about how to maintain adequate nutrition while reducing

> caloric

> intake. I am 46, 5'2 " and haven't weighed more than 105 lbs since I

> was 21.

> Right now I weigh about 100 and I'm not dieting, although I have

> always

> been

> concerned about what I eat. At any rate I have been following the

> crsociety

> mailings and have been put off by a considerable amount of it. Lots

> of

> egos.

> I like the idea of support with lifestyle, exercise, etc. Please

> keep

> me

> informed. Thanks.

>

> 2nd newbies's questions:

>

> As a new subscriber I have a hard time understanding these points:

>

> How do we keep our muscle mass & strength? ie. anytime I eat less I

> loose muscle FIRST. And seemingly mostly Only muscle... ALWAYS.

> And sad to say this wasting of lean tissue seems to progress faster

> if

> I do any labour or exercise. Weight workouts, jogging, yoga, doesn't

> seem to matter. More protein doesn't seem to help much... Muscles

> just

> go...

>

> With this lowered testosterone (and IGF-1) that males can get if

> their

> 'systems' get jolted by semi-starvation -how do guys keep themselves

> from growing breasts and losing resonant adult voices (and Muscle?)

> as

> the amounts and relative influence of testosterone diminishes? Do

> similar nasties occur with women with respect to less estrogen etc.?

> ie. men reverting to 'boys', and women, turning back into 'girls',

> losing their 'adultness' despite being the age of adults?

>

> ...and keep our bones from showing and all those other nasty effects

> associated with anorexia/P.O.W. camps...

>

> Eating less seems to lead me to headaches, bodyaches, lethargy,

> confusion, weakness, concentration problems, <yik> as muscle gets

> burned in preference to fatty tissue. Do most people experience

> this,

> and continue to experience this as time goes on?

>

> Might not a combination of liposuction etc. accomplish many of the

> same

> proposed results of CR? Has anyone asked or debated this?

>

> Here is what I e-mailed these two newbies:

>

> Response to newbie #1: It seems to me you're quite slim (100 pds you

> said?). I guess

> you're aware that if you're slim to begin with CR, should not be as

> drastic.

> Also since you're over 40, according to Walford, CR should not be too

> drastic. Have you looked at the menus and meals suggested in

> Walford's

> books? Do you know your ad lib calorie intake? Those are good

> starting

> points. If you know your ad lib ci, then you can reduce it slowly

> from

> there.

>

> Response to newbie #2: How extreme is your CR

> regimin? (From your questions, it sounds very). The other thing to

> ponder

> is that nobody really knows the answers to some of the questions. We

> are

> all in one gigantic experiment with regard to human CR. The closest

> thing

> to us are the CR monkey experiments and the monkeys also have only

> been

> on

> CR for a short time. Nobody knows for 100% sure even if it will work.

>

> It's

> all extrapolation.

>

> I can tell you that all the experts do NOT believe that liposuction

> or

> even

> thinness will achieve the same anticipated result. It's actual

> nutrient

> rich calories ingested that count.

>

> How about some other responses to help these two newbies? Perhaps a

> more zone like approach to newbie #2?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dawn wrote:

>I am 43 yo female, now 125lbs., 5'6 " , BMI about 20. I am planning to

>make December my first month of practicing CR. I would like to ask

>advice of the more experienced CRONers:

>

>1. Determining " set point " and calorie intake. Most of my adult life

>has been 120-135 lbs., closer to 120 lb.; so 10% lower than 120 would

>put my target at 108, does that sound right? Walford mentions losing

>the weight over several months (or years); is 4 months too short for

>me to lose the 17 lbs? Is 1200-1300 calories per day reasonable?

Hi Dawn: You answered your own question: Walford mentions losing that the

weight loss must be s-l-o-w-ly. You might find that you lose a lot at the

beginning but if you're doing this correctly, the weight loss will slow down

so much so that at this point for myself, after 7 menths on CRON, I'm losing

1/2 to 1 pound a month (and as I've said before, if I don't lose another

pound it doesn't matter!). This is not a weight loss diet. Weight loss is

a SIDE EFFECT, which USUALLY happens on CRON. IMHO 1200-1300 calories is

too low and dangerous; 1700-1800 nutrient packed calories would be more like

it especially since Walford recommends those higher numbers (1800 I believe

for women) . I'm sure some others will have comments on this.

[Guest guest]

> Dear All,

> I have read posts from this and the crsociety egroups for about

> 6 weeks and have finished Walford's 120 Year Diet, 2nd ed.

Dawn and other newbies: Please do read the posts and the archives of

the groups, easily accessible from the home pages. If you do this and

you read " 120 year diet " CAREFULLY, many of these questions are

answered again and again. You CANNOT take short cuts or you will

accomplish the opposite of the program and ruin your health. When you

ask if 1200-1300 calories is what you should be on (and you're a

newbie, in your 40's) then you can't be reading the same information

that says NOT to try to attempt such a strict reduction in calories

when starting out and if you're middle aged. Nowhere does it say that-

it says NOT to do that! This is not something you should try to guess

at. Walford make this very clear.

[Guest guest]

Thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions. I'll definitely go

back and review some of the archives, etc. I realize now that the

calorie reduction was too large. However, my " normal " calorie intake

is about 1800 per day. So maybe start there, but replace with

nutrient rich food?

As for the caffeine -- only one espresso today! And I feel fine.

Dawn

>

> Dawn and other newbies: Please do read the posts and the archives

of

> the groups, easily accessible from the home pages. If you do this

and

> you read " 120 year diet " CAREFULLY, many of these questions are

> answered again and again. You CANNOT take short cuts or you will

> accomplish the opposite of the program and ruin your health. When

you

> ask if 1200-1300 calories is what you should be on (and you're a

> newbie, in your 40's) then you can't be reading the same information

> that says NOT to try to attempt such a strict reduction in calories

> when starting out and if you're middle aged. Nowhere does it say

that-

> it says NOT to do that! This is not something you should try to

guess

> at. Walford make this very clear.

[Guest guest]

--- In egroups, " Dawn " <upchurch@u...>

wrote:

> Thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions. I'll definitely go

> back and review some of the archives, etc. I realize now that the

> calorie reduction was too large. However, my " normal " calorie intake

> is about 1800 per day. So maybe start there, but replace with

> nutrient rich food?

>

> As for the caffeine -- only one espresso today! And I feel fine.

>

> Dawn

>

Try 1500 - 1600. See how that goes. You can always adjust later.

[Guest guest]

I'm hypoglyemic and I was ok...not diabetic, tho.

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[Guest guest]

Has anyone out there heard of weight gain after having the gallbladder removed?

Randi

-----Original Message-----

From: Roseanna Conlon [mailto:roastzanna@...]

Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 1:18 PM

gallstones

Subject: Re: Newbie Questions

I'm hypoglyemic and I was ok...not diabetic, tho.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Debbie, I`m Diann I`m new to the group as well. I have type 2

diabetes and I`ve done one flush . You didn`t say if you control your

sugar with diet or medication. I control mine with diet. Because of

that I am very limited in the amount of fruit I eat. So having apple

product fasting prior to the cleanse was not an option.

I did have apple juice with parasite cleanse

a few days before. I wasn`t able to follow all of the things recommended

before hand because my gallbladder was totally none functioning

evidenced by my stool being whiteish (sorry).

The emergency room Dr. and My Dr. said that

my gallbladder needed to be removed immediately . They are pretty quick

on the draw with diabetics in this situation. Because of complications

with emergency surgery. I have other problems making

surgery risky so I jumped on the net looking for options.

I found Dr. s formula read the testimonials on the site gathered

up the stuff and did it. It worked beautifully! I `m not sure if the

large stones in the liver duct were passed or just got out of the way

but I did pass a couple of hundred stones smaller than what I saw in the

sonogram. I also have had chronic acid reflux for years and that is

gone with the stones as well! I plan to do an other flush soon I`m

working on the other flushes now (kidney Parasite etc) I hope

you found something useful in all this . You probably are well aware of

how your sugar levels are effected by various things. I monitored my

sugar closely the day of the cleanse . It bounced around a bit and

had one odd low. I drank a bit of grapefruit juice to nudge it up and

had no ill effect.

I would recommend anyone try this before going under the knife. Please

don`t hesitate to get in touch with me if you like.

Many blessings, Diann

[Guest guest]

<< Has anyone out there heard of weight gain after having the gallbladder

removed?

Randi >>

**************************

Hi, Randi,

If you'll order Dr. Cabot's book entitled " The Healthy Liver & Bowel

Book, " you'll see that this is normal. It's because once the GB is removed,

it's much easier to get a fatty liver so you must stay within a certain diet.

I would totally recommend a healthy diet if you've had GB removal. However,

I suppose everyone should be having a healthy diet, too, or else you'll end

up with Gb disease or something worse. GB disease is bad enough, believe me!

Susie

[Guest guest]

Gallstones are mainly caused by:

Consuming heat treated oils and fats like those found in most foods. A gallstone avoider should only consume cold pressed oils. (You may safely cook with cold pressed monounsaturated oils at medium temperatures, such as olive, macadamia and sesame).

AND

Consuming dairy products which have had their natural digestive enzymes removed; ie anything pasteurised.

----- Original Message -----

From: Debbie

gallstones

Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2001 2:52 AM

Subject: Newbie Questions

Hi everyone ~I'm Debbie and I'm new to your list. Last week, I went to my doctor to see what the results of my blood test were. I have Diabetes Type II, and my hemoglobin needs to be monitored every 3 months. She had a regular blood panel performed as well.She asked if I had any stomach trouble. I told her no, I have not recently had experienced anything. However, later that day, I remembered that last year, on occassion, I would experience what I thought was AWFUL indigestion. This indigestion would permeate in my upper stomach and hurt so bad that the pain would penetrate my back. It would take several hours for me to get rid of it.Apparently, some enzyme count from my liver is a bit elevated. It was 53 and the normal count is 48. She said it might be gallstones or a heavy gallbladder sitting on top of the duct that goes into my stomach. She has ordered an ultrasound to see what's going on.Can anyone tell me if liver flushes are safe for diabetics? Also, what causes gallstones and the attacks? Any info is appreciated.Debbie :)Collected testimonials:http:///messages/gallstones-testimonialsYou are receiving this email because you elected to subscribe to the Gallstones group on 's groups. Post message: gallstones Subscribe: gallstones-subscribe Unsubscribe: gallstones-unsubscribe URL to this page: gallstones By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself!List Archives: http:///messages/gallstonesWeb Site for more information: http://home.online.no/~dusan/gallstones/http://www.liverdoctor.com/ http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Have a nice day !

[Guest guest]

>>Has anyone out there heard of weight gain after having the gallbladder

removed?<<

I had my gallbladder out in December. I think it is totally normal to put

on weight afterward, because you can eat absolutely anything, with no pain.

There is a great temptation to eat everything you couldn't eat for months or

years before. I put on a few pounds at first, especially since it was right

around Christmas. And I renewed my love-affair with cheese! After I

finished going nuts, I lost the weight I had put on. Now I eat whatever I

want, I just don't go nuts.

Debra

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[Guest guest]

> Hey... I am new to this group...practicing CR for about 3 weeks

>now. Does anyone ever go into the chat room to talk about CR?

>And...can we post messages about anything here...share our

>experiences, or is this primarily scientific? Jan

Hi Jan: Please put an appropriate subject heading into your posts, so that

the archives can easily be accessed. This IS the chat room; there's no

other. Messages do not have to be strictly scientific but we prefer they

relate somewhat to CR. Anybody trying to sell anything, or any SPAMMERS

will be banned from the list.

[Guest guest]

Yes there is another chat room.

This is the " Messages " section of egroups.

Look at the left hand side for " Chat " .

> > Hey... I am new to this group...practicing CR for about 3 weeks

> >now. Does anyone ever go into the chat room to talk about CR?

> >And...can we post messages about anything here...share our

> >experiences, or is this primarily scientific? Jan

>

> Hi Jan: Please put an appropriate subject heading into your posts,

so that

> the archives can easily be accessed. This IS the chat room;

there's no

> other. Messages do not have to be strictly scientific but we

prefer they

> relate somewhat to CR. Anybody trying to sell anything, or any

SPAMMERS

> will be banned from the list.

[Guest guest]

There may be a chat room that exists, but I am unaware of anyone ever

using it. OTOH, sometimes members e-mail each other off list and

" chat " that way.

> > > Hey... I am new to this group...practicing CR for about 3 weeks

> > >now. Does anyone ever go into the chat room to talk about CR?

> > >And...can we post messages about anything here...share our

> > >experiences, or is this primarily scientific? Jan

> >

> > Hi Jan: Please put an appropriate subject heading into your posts,

> so that

> > the archives can easily be accessed. This IS the chat room;

> there's no

> > other. Messages do not have to be strictly scientific but we

> prefer they

> > relate somewhat to CR. Anybody trying to sell anything, or any

> SPAMMERS

> > will be banned from the list.

[Guest guest]

Darrell-

>Butter Oil, aka Ghee, is super clarified butter. Dairy butter

>is cooked without stirring in a saucepan at a low boil for 30

>minutes to 2 hrs, depending on your recipe, to evaporate

>the water content and precipitate out the milk solids.

Actually, butter oil in the WAP sense is not the same thing as

ghee. WAP-style butter oil is butter that has been centrifuged to remove

the water and milk solids, not heated, though unfortunately the terms are

often used interchangably, and sometimes even nonsensically, as in " raw

ghee " , which is an oxymoron.

I'm not sure, but I believe WAP's butter oil was only a fraction of the

overall fat content of butter -- it supposedly concentrated some important

nutrients, such as activator X. How the only current butter oil I know of

(Green Pastures) compares to WAP's... who knows.

-

[Guest guest]

a-

>If you wouldn't mind sharing, I would love to hear how this

>combination suits you. I am curious as to what kind of benefits you

>notice from having the CLO and BO together.

Well, since I just started last night, the jury's still out, but at least

half a teaspoon of each didn't render me comatose today the way CLO by

itself has in the past, but then I'm pretty sure I took a good deal more

than half a teaspoon then. So I'll try gradually upping my dose to a

teaspoon or so of each, and I'll report back.

-

[Guest guest]

Aven-

>I've purchased only one bottle of GP butter oil, and

>I find it really hard to take. I wonder if it's supposed

>to taste as nasty as it does. Did I get a bad bottle or

>does it all taste like that? I expected an intense but

>pleasant butter taste. I was happy to learn that it

>doesn't need refrigeration, because it's easier to

>get down in liquid form.

Hmm, perhaps it's a matter of personal taste? I found it surprisingly

tolerable, just like their CLO, which seems to have the same vitamin

content as Radiant Life's. I wouldn't say I enjoy it or anything, and I

have only taken it at room temperature in liquid form (a teaspoon of each

last night) but so far so good. It doesn't taste good like actual butter,

though -- I'll give you that. <g>

-