tardive akathisia, zyprexa withdrawal, and vitamins

[Guest guest]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I have tardive akathisia. (I had tardive dyskinesia as

well, but it has

pretty much resolved itself.) The akathisia started in mid-February, has

improved some,

but continues to be hellish.

I also forgot to mention I am taking:

1000mg C

1mg Klonopin

I'm not happy about the Klonopin, but at this point I don't need to add benzo

withdrawal

to my list of problems. It was given to me for the akathisia, but it doesn't do

crap. I think

I would have to take about 6mg to get real relief and I'm not willing to go that

high. Oh

well.

-eliz.

[Guest guest]

Sally,

What do you mean by this? The only doc that has ever prescribed

drugs (although once I got a Voltaren cream)is the psychiatrist.

This is here in Switzerland. 30 years ago in the U.S., I once got

some antibiotics (that's the last time) when I had a very bad cold

or virus, I don't remember, and after an operation I did get some

pain pills.

Kendra

>

I'm a nurse (retired) and this I know -- medical doctors (M.D.'s)

HAVE to

> give pharmaceuticals to keep their licenses. (They can practice

no other

> form of medicine.) They have to give out the drugs to make a

living.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kendra!

Thanks for your question! I got the information you ask about directly from my own physician! He is an M.D. in the United States (allopathic medicine). He was an Ayurvedic doctor in India, but he cannot practice Ayurveda in America (under his licensure as a medical doctor). The AMA (American Medical Association) will not permit it. Under the licensure terms as an M.D. (medical doctor) in the United States, he can only prescribe allopathic medications (prescription medicines, not herbs or the like), and do things like "cut, burn or poison", i.e., surgery, chemotherapy, etc. Medical doctors here cannot practice alternative or complementary medicine. He told me this, openly and honestly, because I am also a nurse and a paralegal (and my late husband was an attorney). From the legal community also, (it goes without saying), I know this to be true.

My personal physician was honest enough to tell me that he is not fond of pharmaceuticals, and well knows their side effects. I think, too often people do not stop to think what "side effects" or "adverse effects" mean. It means that your symptoms are caused by the prescription medicine (pharmaceuticals), not by the ailment (condition) you went to see the doctor about. Many lawsuits (I personally know) are based upon the dangers of pharmaceuticals, both in their application (dosage) and their structure. Caveat emptor!

You mention antibiotics, and that is another subject of interest to me. My husband was a biochemist in the 1940s with Lederle Labs (a division of American Cynamid), where he worked to develop (invent) antibiotics. In the very beginning, all researchers saw clearly that antibiotics would take out the digestive system. None of the chemists would take them. He still won't, nor will I.

How about in Switzerland? I understand that Europe is much more open to Alternative Medicine. However, I am very well aware of the passing of the CODEX there, and how use of herbal and vitamin supplements are being greatly curtailed. There is a Dutch physician who writes much of this. I believe his name is Mathias, M.D. (or something like that). (Just google "CODEX"...)

Blessings to you, Sally

Re: tardive akathisia, zyprexa withdrawal, and vitamins

Sally,What do you mean by this? The only doc that has ever prescribed drugs (although once I got a Voltaren cream)is the psychiatrist. This is here in Switzerland. 30 years ago in the U.S., I once got some antibiotics (that's the last time) when I had a very bad cold or virus, I don't remember, and after an operation I did get some pain pills.Kendra> I'm a nurse (retired) and this I know -- medical doctors (M.D.'s) HAVE to> give pharmaceuticals to keep their licenses. (They can practice no other> form of medicine.) They have to give out the drugs to make a living. >

[Guest guest]

Also, doctors are required to offer the " accepted treatment " (there

is an exact technical term for this) for particular diagnoses--which

in nearly all cases, is a pharmaceutical. If they deviate from this

and get called on it, they can be sued for malpractice and/or lose

their license to practice!

--

KIM DENISE FINE ART

www.Kim.com

Fine Art Gifts

www.CafePress.com/Kim

[Guest guest]

<<Also, doctors are required to offer the " accepted treatment " (there

is an exact technical term for this) for particular diagnoses--which

in nearly all cases, is a pharmaceutical. If they deviate from this

and get called on it, they can be sued for malpractice and/or lose

their license to practice!>>

** Kind of. If you go to a doctor for something other than conventional

treatment, you can get it (from those who provide it). Thry can't bill

insurance, though.

I am in regular contact with a number of MDs who rarely write

prescriptions and do use alternative treatment. But most people don't want

this because they want whatever their insurance will cover.

In most cases, unless the doctor is known for practicing outside the con

med norm, unless you ask for something other than con med, it won't be

offered.

As far as practicing to the " standard of the day " -- this is true but with

the caveats mentioned above.

C

[Guest guest]

This is exactly right, Kim... sadly so! Thank you for commenting...

I checked CafePress and I love your t-shirts, mugs, and everything! Do you ever put your paintings on a mousepad???? When I get more $$$, I plan to buy one of your exquisite pastels. Blessings, Sally

Re: Re: tardive akathisia, zyprexa withdrawal, and vitamins

Also, doctors are required to offer the "accepted treatment" (thereis an exact technical term for this) for particular diagnoses--whichin nearly all cases, is a pharmaceutical. If they deviate from thisand get called on it, they can be sued for malpractice and/or losetheir license to practice!-- KIM DENISE FINE ARTwww.Kim.comFine Art Giftswww.CafePress.com/Kim

[Guest guest]

Thanks, ... very informative! Sally

Re: Re: tardive akathisia, zyprexa withdrawal, and vitamins

<<Also, doctors are required to offer the "accepted treatment" (thereis an exact technical term for this) for particular diagnoses--whichin nearly all cases, is a pharmaceutical. If they deviate from thisand get called on it, they can be sued for malpractice and/or losetheir license to practice!>>** Kind of. If you go to a doctor for something other than conventional treatment, you can get it (from those who provide it). Thry can't bill insurance, though.I am in regular contact with a number of MDs who rarely write prescriptions and do use alternative treatment. But most people don't want this because they want whatever their insurance will cover.In most cases, unless the doctor is known for practicing outside the con med norm, unless you ask for something other than con med, it won't be offered.As far as practicing to the "standard of the day" -- this is true but with the caveats mentioned above.C

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sally! There are mousepads on the Cafepress site. Each of the designs on there is available on a mousepad. I can also make one up for you if you'd like one featuring a different painting.

-- KIM DENISE FINE ARTwww.Kim.comFine Art Giftswww.CafePress.com/Kim

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

You said:

<<I have been working with my acupuncturist and psychiatrist to

work on finding alternative treatments to tardive akathisia as we all

find the usual treatment, clozaril, to be unacceptable. So far, we

have found information on vitamins that help to prevent akathisia as

well as vitamin E, B6, and manganese to reverse the effects.

I have been trying to take the following:

1000mg Calcium

500mg Magnesium

200mg B3

600mg B6

40mg Manganese

800mg E B complex

I know these are a lot of vitamins, so I am looking for the best way

to get them so they can be easily absorbed. My ability to eat is

still extremely bad due to the zyprexa withdrawal, but at this point

I am managing three meals a day. >>

** This is really not a lot of supplements at all.

Is Zyprexa the only psychotropic drug you have ever taken?

Where did you get this protocol (the psychiatrist)? I would

reverse the calcium and magnesium doses and not take the calcium with

the manganese.

What is the 800mg E B complex? How much E and in what form?

You said:

<<The neurologist told me that such high levels of B6 can cause

neuropathy, but my psychiatrist was a little skeptical as he claims

drug companies propagate such rumors to sell their drugs.

Nonetheless, he wasn't sure if it would be reversible if it started

to occur. I have been advised that if I can divide up the doses as

much as possible and get more natural forms of B6, the chances of

neuropathy should go down. Bee pollen was advised, but on further

investigation, it didn't appear to have enough B6 >>

** B6 causes neurotoxicity at 2g daily and above.

If I was addressing this I would add fish oil, inositol, Vit

E at 1200 mg with the predominant type being gamma (but containing

other forms as well delivered in a vehicle designed to enhance

uptake), an amino acid blend specifically targeting dopamine,as well

as a number of other nutrients and herbs that address dopamine.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry I wasn't clear. I have tardive akathisia. (I had tardive

dyskinesia as well, but it has

> pretty much resolved itself.) The akathisia started in mid-

February, has improved some,

> but continues to be hellish.

>

> I also forgot to mention I am taking:

>

> 1000mg C

>

> 1mg Klonopin

>

> I'm not happy about the Klonopin, but at this point I don't need to

add benzo withdrawal

> to my list of problems. It was given to me for the akathisia, but

it doesn't do crap. I think

> I would have to take about 6mg to get real relief and I'm not

willing to go that high. Oh

> well.>>

** , diazepam would be the preferred benzodiazepine for

tardive akathisia.

C