Re: Forced displays of affection

[Guest guest]

Yes! I tend to pick the greeting card with the fewest words or a

joke one. I can gladly pick a sincere one for anyone else, but she

gets the one that just says " Happy Mother's Day " in it and nothing

else. I assume there are people out there who can read the sappy mom

cards and think, " Yes! That's just exactly how I feel about my

wonderful mother! " I am definitely not one of them. I always thought

it was weird that I dreaded buying my mother card, but now it makes

sense. I just go in, pick the first plain, least sappy one I can

find and I'm out. The faster, the less trauma. Lately with the

addition of my two little ones, I just get a grandma one that they

pick out and I don't have to get her one at all. That's even better!

>

> " I wrestle with the same fake " I love you " with my mother. I used

to

> stand in front of the greeting card section and gag at some of the

> sentiments expressed to mothers, because I felt none of that for

> mine. "

>

> " I'm a bit worried because my friend said to simply write " I love

you

> too " and leave it at that. Problem is that I don't feel I love her

> anymore. I feel nothing. Numb. "

>

> These sentiments really struck a chord with me so I thought I'd

start

> a new thread. One of my nada's guaranteed rages was when we kids

> didn't return her feelings of affection. If she wanted a hug, by

> golly, you better give her a hug. She is a very " touchy feely "

kind

> of person and so was always trying to hug and kiss us kids. Which

> sounds okay, in theory, except for the fact that if you didn't

> particularly feel like hugging or kissing, and then she'd explode.

I

> remember distinctly once when I was a child that I naively tried to

> tell her that I didn't like her always trying to touch/grab/hug

me.

> She had a complete meltdown. As you might imagine, I had huge

> boundary issues when it came time for me to start dating.

>

> I, too, want to vomit at the sappy greeting card section,

especially

> on Mother's Day. I don't think I've ever gotten her a sincere

> Mother's Day card, it's always been one of those goofy, semi-

> sarcastic ones. I'd say " I love you too " , knowing it was the only

> acceptable response to her " I love you " , but I've never initiated

> an " I love you " . Because frankly, I don't feel that emotion

towards

> her. Maybe, occasionally, an affectionate bemusement, a knowing

> chuckle about some of her more benign antics, but not love. Yet

> another thing I can't tell her.

>

> Anyway, anyone else out there with similar experiences?

>

[Guest guest]

I can't stand that forced display of affection, either! It's

creepy -- almost like a molester scenario, really, if you think

about it. You're being made to do something with your body that

you're not feeling. I'm sure this manifests itself when we're

growing more independent.

I can recall not feeling like I could speak up when I was in the

dating years, and I still bear the shame of being with men I didn't

want to be with. It just never occurred to me that I had the right

to call an end to it or say " no " . My voice had been shut off as

unimportant. I had bosses that dominated me, terrified me -- I went

to work scared. Now, what kind of life is that? What kind of

parent doesn't let their kid speak up that they don't want to do

something? You're just teaching them that the world is a place

where they can't defend themselves.

I posted on another thread about how my mother does little to

nurture a relationship, abandons me without warning, yet expects me

to feel some sort of affection for her -- automatically due to her

status as birth-giver, I guess. I feel this strange mix of pity,

disgust, anger for her selfishness and cold-hearted silent treatment

manipulations, etc. It's no mystery that any " love " is going to be

strangled by all of those emotional weeds.

But, for the longest time I couldn't put my finger on what about

this relationship feels wrong. After all, there was no big blow-up

initially -- as my dad loves to point out ( " Don't know what could

have happened to sever our relationship... " ) in his amiable, Andy

Griffith way. It's engineered to make me feel guilty, at fault and

bad. And it used to work quite effectively! Now, it just makes me

feel odd and a little guilty, but I've stuck to my guns this time.

But I think all of that boils down to this: We're tired of having

to go through the motions of relationships that hold no feeling for

us. Forced displays of affection, as you put it. Once you realize

this relationship doesn't work like it used to in your life, what do

you do with it?

It's hard to feel affection for someone who's raged at you,

manipulated you, overpowered you with their absolute authority,

didn't care much for nurturing joy in your childhood, your

adolescence, your wedding, your college graduation (she skipped

town), your plans to have a big family birthday celebration (helped

plan it then skipped town again), etc.

Like Celani pointed out in his book " Leaving Home " , I had

this " Wounded Self " inside me, but I pushed it down when things were

going well with my mother. And we had long periods of that, in

fact. Then, when she has a crisis and goes into her BPD mode, she

ditches me without warning and without regard. At some point, this

type of erratic behavior is going to take its toll on a person. But

it built so slowly, so imperceptibly, that once I decided I'd had

enough, it felt wierd. Like I was over-correcting, overdoing it.

Like I was annihilating them for such a slight snub! And my dad is

only too happy to paint it just that way: " We haven't heard from

you..... " We need to solve these problems " ..... " Call us or don't call

us, it's up to you, just know that we love you and our hearts are

hurting, etc. " But, boy, if I bring up that it might be due to her

dysfunction and that she needs help, he gives me a nuclear blast --

" HOW DARE YOU! You're ungrateful and uncaring!! " ....

So, it's just a mystery as to why my affection for them would be

affected, isn't it? (Sarcasm) I think I was getting very hung up on

the fact that there wasn't a big blowup, yet this longstanding

relationship suffered a major change. Like when a couple endures

years of fighting but always makes up, but the woman sees a scene in

a movie that causes her to have a paradigm shift and she suddenly

knows she's tired of all the fighting and goes to a divorce lawyer.

Sometimes it's the " slightest " thing that finally removes the

blinders from our eyes -- it makes sense that the BPD would go " What

happened? You've always put up with my crap, but you've changed!!

What's wrong with you?!! " Their bewilderment seems understandable,

but, it's not our primary concern, and we must soldier on.

Good thread! " Forced affection " is Good food for thought -- sorry

to ramble, but it helped me to pour that out in writing! I think a

lot of this boils down to throwing off the mantle of forced

affection, a forced fake relationship, and finally getting REAL!

Happy New Year, my KO friends!

{big hugs]

Kyla

[Guest guest]

I feel really strongly about this.

I've blamed myself so much for wanting to shrink from my mom's hugs,

and wipe off her kisses. In a way I think it's physical abuse,

ironically. I felt it was just another symptom of my evil inhumanness,

to not want her " love " .

I've since realized that those gestures weren't for my comfort, but

for hers. She wanted to show herself that she loved me *so much*, even

after I'd just " forced her to lose patience with me " . She wanted

almost to physically bully me into thinking the conflicts came from

me. After all, look how loving she obviously was! I'd ache from

forcing myself to not stiffen when she put her arms around me, and

from waiting until her back was turned to wipe off the spit from her

cheek-kisses. It did feel like a violation. But I knew what a vicious,

suicidal meltdown she'd have if I even had the wrong expression in

response to her " love " .

My mom's touch has always felt gross to me, and I felt ashamed of

that, like how horrible a person I was to compare my nada's

expressions of love to real molestation.

But physical boundary violations are just that, no matter where on the

body they occur. No parent should teach their kids to accept, against

their own comfort, whatever physical touches an adult wants to give

them, for the sake of the adult's need for emotional intimacy.

I've still struggled with these expressions of her love as an adult.

It still feels clammy and bad.

Hope always,

Vi

>

> Kyla.

> I can relate to most of what you said. I agree with likening it to a

> child molester in a way that is right being its still your body being

> violated even with a hug. Might not be your sexual parts but it still

> has that same feel of disgust with it.

> My mom was NEVER huggy when I was a kid I dont even recall one

> instance of it.

> Then when we were getting alongfor the 2 years she came for a 2 month

> visit where we got along good she wanted hugs all the time. I told her

> I just wasnt huggie : [ which is strange as I love hugs from certain

> people] She stopped but told me she was a touchy feely person. Im

> thinking to myself since when? certainly wasnt when I was living with

> her only touch from her I got was a spanking!

>

>

>

> > I can't stand that forced display of affection, either! It's

> > creepy -- almost like a molester scenario, really, if you think

> > about it. You're being made to do something with your body that

> > you're not feeling. I'm sure this manifests itself when we're

> > growing more independent.

> >

> > I can recall not feeling like I could speak up when I was in the

> > dating years, and I still bear the shame of being with men I didn't

> > want to be with. It just never occurred to me that I had the right

> > to call an end to it or say " no " . My voice had been shut off as

> > unimportant. I had bosses that dominated me, terrified me -- I went

> > to work scared. Now, what kind of life is that? What kind of

> > parent doesn't let their kid speak up that they don't want to do

> > something? You're just teaching them that the world is a place

> > where they can't defend themselves.

> >

> > I posted on another thread about how my mother does little to

> > nurture a relationship, abandons me without warning, yet expects me

> > to feel some sort of affection for her -- automatically due to her

> > status as birth-giver, I guess. I feel this strange mix of pity,

> > disgust, anger for her selfishness and cold-hearted silent treatment

> > manipulations, etc. It's no mystery that any " love " is going to be

> > strangled by all of those emotional weeds.

> >

> >

> >

> > It's hard to feel affection for someone who's raged at you,

> > manipulated you, overpowered you with their absolute authority,

> > didn't care much for nurturing joy in your childhood, your

> > adolescence, your wedding, your college graduation (she skipped

> > town), your plans to have a big family birthday celebration (helped

> > plan it then skipped town again), etc.

> >

> > Like Celani pointed out in his book " Leaving Home " , I had

> > this " Wounded Self " inside me, but I pushed it down when things were

> > going well with my mother. And we had long periods of that, in

> > fact. Then, when she has a crisis and goes into her BPD mode, she

> > ditches me without warning and without regard. At some point, this

> > type of erratic behavior is going to take its toll on a person. But

> > it built so slowly, so imperceptibly, that once I decided I'd had

> > enough, it felt wierd. Like I was over-correcting, overdoing it.

> > Like I was annihilating them for such a slight snub! And my dad is

> > only too happy to paint it just that way: " We haven't heard from

> > you..... " We need to solve these problems " ..... " Call us or don't call

> > us, it's up to you, just know that we love you and our hearts are

> > hurting, etc. " But, boy, if I bring up that it might be due to her

> > dysfunction and that she needs help, he gives me a nuclear blast --

> > " HOW DARE YOU! You're ungrateful and uncaring!! " ....

> >

> > So, it's just a mystery as to why my affection for them would be

> > affected, isn't it? (Sarcasm) I think I was getting very hung up on

> > the fact that there wasn't a big blowup, yet this longstanding

> > relationship suffered a major change. Like when a couple endures

> > years of fighting but always makes up, but the woman sees a scene in

> > a movie that causes her to have a paradigm shift and she suddenly

> > knows she's tired of all the fighting and goes to a divorce lawyer.

> > Sometimes it's the " slightest " thing that finally removes the

> > blinders from our eyes -- it makes sense that the BPD would go " What

> > happened? You've always put up with my crap, but you've changed!!

> > What's wrong with you?!! " Their bewilderment seems understandable,

> > but, it's not our primary concern, and we must soldier on.

> >

> > Good thread! " Forced affection " is Good food for thought -- sorry

> > to ramble, but it helped me to pour that out in writing! I think a

> > lot of this boils down to throwing off the mantle of forced

> > affection, a forced fake relationship, and finally getting REAL!

> >

> > Happy New Year, my KO friends!

> >

> > {big hugs]

> > Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vi

You stated " My mom's touch has always felt gross to me, and I felt

ashamed of

> that, like how horrible a person I was to compare my nada's

> expressions of love to real molestation. " end quote

Wow I just had a light bulb moment Molesters tell their victims that

that is how they show love. So in essence how is it different? A touch

you dont want is still the same feeling of disgust. Still a violation

of your body when its something you dont want and makes you feel yucky.

Food for thought