RE: Re: Always checking for deeper meaning to her words

[Guest guest]

Thanks Elle! I thought that it was manipulation. I remember sensing a pain from

her words when she said them. At the time I just pushed it aside but now I am

thankful that my body did sense the emotion and I responded to it.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: robinson4963@...: Sun, 30

Dec 2007 21:32:57 +0000Subject: Re: Always checking for

deeper meaning to her words

You are not reading into something that is not there; you are right on target

thinking your mother is giving you a stab. She IS trying to manipulate you

through guilt. Somehow our BPD parents know how powerful OUR compassion is,

despite being completely devoid of compassion themselves. It's like they are

aliens who understand us and use it to their advantage. I was faced with the

same dilemna this summer: my husband and I had gone LC and were on our way to

NC, finally, after many years of abuse from his BPD father. I decided to be

detached from this man who had personally injured me time and time again for

many years. Things got worse for everyone as he raged out of control when my H

and I were struggling in our marriage. We separated and H ended up living with

BPD Dad and Nada for a few months. While there, the true selfish, uncaring

personality came out and H left feeling " kicked out " and once again, unloved and

ignored by his parents. Everyone in the family was stunned by the coldness of

these parents and LC or NC seemed our only solution.H and I entered counseling

we started to talk about reconciliation when we suddenly got the news that his

father was diagnosed with cancer. Suddenly, family members were swarming us to

forgive and forget since the man might be dying. They believed we should just

ignore the real relationship and pretend nothing ever happened. The truth is,

the simple existence of mortality is not enough to change who these people are

and who they've been TO us and we shouldn't forget this. LC was the only thing

giving us the relief we needed to survive his cycle of abuse and attempt to

rebuild our lives. His behaviors had basically been one of the biggest factors

in tearing my family apart and my marriage as well. Getting out from under this

man's black cloud enabled us to buckle down and live right, including being

honest, alcohol-free, and devoid of negativity. After he went through surgery

and seemed on the road to recovery, we decided to see him at our child's

sporting event--just to test the waters in the hopes that his brush with death

might have changed him profoundly. This was our hope. No such luck. We

immediately saw that he assumed we were all back to where we were before and

ignored all the hurt that had gone between us. He just expected us to be doting

children, as he always had and to be accepting of his unacceptable acting out.

This did not sit well with me or my H and we decided to continue LC. H sent

letters to his father explaining this and asked him to respect our wishes.

Unfortunately, BPD Dad still tries to get to us through emails to our children

which are laced with subtle sarcasm and pleas for attention in his dying

years... We don't feel it's at all appropriate to send such letters to a child!

So now, we must monitor and often delete these notes before our children see

them. Passive agressive to the letter; he seems like the loving grandfather who

is ill and longs to hear from his grandchildren. Meanwhile he has 7 other

grandchildren whose parents are still struggling under his reign of ugly grip.

We won't let him control our children and if we need to seem cruel and unloving

to others, so be it. Those who know us know how he's hurt us and our children

for many years, under the guise of a big, sensitive, soft-hearted grandpa.

People know how he endangered our children and tried to drive them while drunk,

how he encourages his children to bully their spouses, how he turns his back on

people who come to him for help... and he uses everyone and everything to

satisfy his need for self-fulfillment. We know the truth. All of you know the

truth too and you should not feel the least bit guilty when you think you might

be losing your BP parent. Keep in mind that parents who love their children

don't require this much stress or thought at the end of their lives because our

love for them comes naturally, as they have loved us throughout their life.

Trust your gut. Elle.>> Hi! I just remembered a comment my Nada made last week

when we were > together. She was talking on and on about a friend of hers whose

> father had just died (one I didn't even know or care to hear about) > and she

said, " His daughter came to the hospital and rushed to his > side to whisper in

his ear how wonderful of a father he was. " My mom > said she did this because he

had always thought he did a horrible job > with his kids and she wanted to tell

him one last time that he was > wonderful. Am I reading into this too much by

believing this was > another stab from her in her passive aggressive way to tell

me how I > better see the wonderful things she did before she dies or she won't

> be able to go out in peace (like this man was able to do after he > heard her

words). Any thoughts on this or am I just being > hypervigilant?> > Kelley>

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[Guest guest]

Kelley and Elle,

Like the saying, “You’re not paranoid if they’re

after you,” with a BP it’s not unreasonable to be

“Always checking for deeper meaning to her

words.” I agree with Elle and Sylvia. BPs don’t

tell stories without hidden meanings, and those

meanings are usually meant to put us down for

doing or not doing something that may or may not

have been pleasant or unpleasant, or right or

wrong, for which we may be split black or white,

depending upon the time of day, the weather and

how they’re feeling, which might or might not be

consistent or inconsistent. Get it?

Elle, your words, “parents who love their

children don't require this much stress or

thought at the end of their lives because our

love for them comes naturally, as they have loved

us throughout their life” are some of the most

eloquent I’ve seen about this. What a beautiful

way to put it. Thanks.

One Non-BP Recovering Man

--- robinson4963 wrote:

> You are not reading into something that is not

> there; you are right on

> target thinking your mother is giving you a

> stab. She IS trying to

> manipulate you through guilt. Somehow our BPD

> parents know how

> powerful OUR compassion is, despite being

> completely devoid of

> compassion themselves. It's like they are

> aliens who understand us and

> use it to their advantage.

>

> I was faced with the same dilemna this summer:

> my husband and I had

> gone LC and were on our way to NC, finally,

> after many years of abuse

> from his BPD father. I decided to be detached

> from this man who had

> personally injured me time and time again for

> many years. Things got

> worse for everyone as he raged out of control

> when my H and I were

> struggling in our marriage. We separated and H

> ended up living with

> BPD Dad and Nada for a few months. While

> there, the true selfish,

> uncaring personality came out and H left

> feeling " kicked out " and once

> again, unloved and ignored by his parents.

> Everyone in the family was

> stunned by the coldness of these parents and LC

> or NC seemed our only

> solution.

>

> H and I entered counseling we started to talk

> about reconciliation when

> we suddenly got the news that his father was

> diagnosed with cancer.

> Suddenly, family members were swarming us to

> forgive and forget since

> the man might be dying. They believed we

> should just ignore the real

> relationship and pretend nothing ever happened.

> The truth is, the

> simple existence of mortality is not enough to

> change who these people

> are and who they've been TO us and we shouldn't

> forget this. LC was

> the only thing giving us the relief we needed

> to survive his cycle of

> abuse and attempt to rebuild our lives. His

> behaviors had basically

> been one of the biggest factors in tearing my

> family apart and my

> marriage as well. Getting out from under this

> man's black cloud

> enabled us to buckle down and live right,

> including being honest,

> alcohol-free, and devoid of negativity.

>

> After he went through surgery and seemed on the

> road to recovery, we

> decided to see him at our child's sporting

> event--just to test the

> waters in the hopes that his brush with death

> might have changed him

> profoundly. This was our hope. No such luck.

> We immediately saw that

> he assumed we were all back to where we were

> before and ignored all the

> hurt that had gone between us. He just

> expected us to be doting

> children, as he always had and to be accepting

> of his unacceptable

> acting out. This did not sit well with me or

> my H and we decided to

> continue LC. H sent letters to his father

> explaining this and asked

> him to respect our wishes. Unfortunately, BPD

> Dad still tries to get

> to us through emails to our children which are

> laced with subtle

> sarcasm and pleas for attention in his dying

> years... We don't feel

> it's at all appropriate to send such letters to

> a child! So now, we

> must monitor and often delete these notes

> before our children see

> them. Passive agressive to the letter; he

> seems like the loving

> grandfather who is ill and longs to hear from

> his grandchildren.

> Meanwhile he has 7 other grandchildren whose

> parents are still

> struggling under his reign of ugly grip. We

> won't let him control our

> children and if we need to seem cruel and

> unloving to others, so be

> it. Those who know us know how he's hurt us

> and our children for many

> years, under the guise of a big, sensitive,

> soft-hearted grandpa.

> People know how he endangered our children and

> tried to drive them

> while drunk, how he encourages his children to

> bully their spouses, how

> he turns his back on people who come to him for

> help... and he uses

> everyone and everything to satisfy his need for

> self-fulfillment. We

> know the truth. All of you know the truth too

> and you should not feel

> the least bit guilty when you think you might

> be losing your BP

> parent. Keep in mind that parents who love

> their children don't

> require this much stress or thought at the end

> of their lives because

> our love for them comes naturally, as they have

> loved us throughout

> their life. Trust your gut. Elle.

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi! I just remembered a comment my Nada made

> last week when we were

> > together. She was talking on and on about a

> friend of hers whose

> > father had just died (one I didn't even know

> or care to hear about)

> > and she said, " His daughter came to the

> hospital and rushed to his

> > side to whisper in his ear how wonderful of a

> father he was. " My mom

> > said she did this because he had always

> thought he did a horrible job

> > with his kids and she wanted to tell him one

> last time that he was

> > wonderful. Am I reading into this too much by

> believing this was

> > another stab from her in her passive

> aggressive way to tell me how I

> > better see the wonderful things she did

> before she dies or she won't

> > be able to go out in peace (like this man was

> able to do after he

> > heard her words). Any thoughts on this or am

> I just being

> > hypervigilant?

> >

> > Kelley

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