Re: Hi Everyone

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome. One thing I know for sure is that you should never say

anything even remotely bad about your bf or his children to your

mother. Don't tell her if you're arguing. Give her nothing, because

she will use it against you.

-Deanna

>

> I just found this site via the book " Stop Walking on Eggshells. " I'm

> the 20 year old only child of a divorced BP. She has never been

> diagnosed because she refuses to get hel, but the description fits her

> to a T. I finally moved out for good this summer, but I'm dreading

> the holidays because they always seem to be such a nightmare with her.

> I'm engaged to a guy with kids, and not only does she refuse to meet

> him, but she loves to interfere and put him down endlessly. Of

> course, when I call her out on what she says about him, she denies it

> all. I know I can't change her; I'm just looking for some guidance on

> how to deal with her because it has put a big strain on my

> relationship with him and I know I can't allow it to continue.

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, tigress!

I'm afraid that you're going to have to choose -- and your mother is

pushing you toward forcing you to make a choice: HER or him.

You're an adult old enough to be out in the world and get engaged --

and here is a wonderful opportunity for you to be a loving,

wonderful stepmother to those kids. I see so much potential for

love and happiness. Imagine those kids when they're grown and asked

about you and them saying " You know what -- she was the best. "

Anyway -- your mother is disrespecting your choice of husband -- a

BIG no-no in the world. If I were you, I'd tell her if she says ONE

MORE WORD like that against the man you're going to marry and make a

family with, then you will not come around her to hear it again.

You are not obligated to be in the presence of those who mistreat

you. " Mother " is not a title giving someone a free " mistreat

tigress " card. YOU can put a stop to it. SHE can choose to either

abide by your minimal rules of respect, or SHE can choose the

behavior that sends you away. After you draw the boundary, it's up

to her.

If my mother were to treat my fiance that way, I'd be out the door

and walk toward my own life, free of the strife she chooses to

create. Who needs it? Who wants to line up for another helping of

it? Once you know what hurts she's capable of dishing out, (will

she be abusive to your stepchildren? -- you can't subject them to

that. They don't deserve it.) you get to decide if you want to

continue lining up for the abuse.

-Kyla

> >

> > I just found this site via the book " Stop Walking on

Eggshells. " I'm

> > the 20 year old only child of a divorced BP. She has never been

> > diagnosed because she refuses to get hel, but the description

fits her

> > to a T. I finally moved out for good this summer, but I'm

dreading

> > the holidays because they always seem to be such a nightmare

with her.

> > I'm engaged to a guy with kids, and not only does she refuse to

meet

> > him, but she loves to interfere and put him down endlessly. Of

> > course, when I call her out on what she says about him, she

denies it

> > all. I know I can't change her; I'm just looking for some

guidance on

> > how to deal with her because it has put a big strain on my

> > relationship with him and I know I can't allow it to continue.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" ...so I feel guilty because she doesn't have anyone

else. "

Stop right there! It's not your situation to feel guilty over! She

doesn't have anyone else because she's constructed it that way. If

she wanted to, she'd make new relationships. That's not your

responsibility, it's hers.

" I'm going to have to go NC with her in order to save my sanity and

my relationship with my fiance'. She has called him screaming and

calling him names, stalked his old apartment, etc. It is

ridiculous. I love his girls, and there's no way I want them to be

subjected to the hateful words I grew up with. "

Now, you're starting to think clearly. Stalking your fiance should

be a dealbreaker. That's insanity, and you shouldn't accept it.

Thank you for protecting your fiance's girls from this. They're

helpless -- it's up to you to protect them. They will be your

family when you're married. Your PRIMARY allegiance is to them --

your mom goes down in the pecking order.

" It is just really difficult because my mom has turned the few people

in my family who do know about my fiance' away from me, so I feel

like I have no support. "

If they're that easily turned against you, then they weren't close

to you to begin with. You can form your own support system --

there's no magic pixie dust just because they're " family " . Define a

new family for yourself -- made up of loyal friends and any family

members who realize she's cuckoo and reach out to you outside of

your mother. It's not as dark as you're making it in your mind.

Relationships are what count, not necessarily blood.

" It's taking me a lot to come to terms with the fact that I'll never

have a relationship with my mom unless a) she gets help or I

don't have a life of my own. And I'm not willing to go for option B.

Good job! You sound more in control -- now go design and live the

life you WANT. Any insane people try to muck it up, YOU are the

gatekeeper and have the power to keep them out. You're in charge,

now. Not only for yourself, but you're now a role model for your

stepdaughters.

And please don't think I say this lightly, tigress -- I know it

hurts to let your " family " go. I'm in the midst of it myself, and

Christmas is just around the corner. Last night I had a great

session in group therapy, and it came up about how my parents are

such pitiful figures, especially now that my brother moved out of

town a few weeks ago, and I'm not speaking to mom & dad.

My therapist answered " THEY are responsible for whether or not

they're pitiful figures -- not you. From the time you were a little

girl, you were taught that you were to serve them emotionally. You

now are grown (I'm 45!!) and don't need to fulfill that role

anymore. "

Tigress, you can save yourself a LOT of heartache if you start

detaching now -- and just concentrate on building a great life for

your new husband and children. I wish you the very best.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

I have found forgiveness to be something I do between myself and God and not

much to do with the person I am forgiving. In other words, I forgive because God

commands it and because it is the only way I have found to release myself from

the anger, bitterness, hatred, and negativity that comes from a unhealthy

relationship like the one I can easily have with my BPD mother. Maybe if you

change your outlook on forgiveness and understand it is something you are doing

for yourself then you can receive it. Also just because you forgive doesn't mean

you let her call the shots and enter back into a relationship with her that is

unhealthy. SInce she is extremely imbalanced you will need to set up strict

boundaries with her and possibly after working through forgiveness and healing

yourself loving her in a special way from a distance. My friends also told me to

just love my mother and basically put up with her but it was very unhealthy for

me and besides at that point in my life I was so filled with bitterness I

couldn't stand her. Every time I thought of her I thought of the evil hurtful

things she had said and done to me. I filled up pages and pages of childhood

memories that were all awful. Then once I worked through this I began to soften.

I began to feel some empathy toward her. I am a believer of the Bible and I

turned to it's truths and prayer and through the Word was lead through the steps

of forgiveness. I have something I found on the internet written on forgiveness

and how it differs from reconcilation and how forgiveness is a process that

needs to be handled with care and include ways to establish clear boundaries so

we don't fall into the same old patterns of unhealthy behavior. LEt me know if

you want to read this and I'll send it to you.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: femspirit@...: Thu, 27 Dec

2007 08:14:43 +0000Subject: Hi Everyone

Hi everyone I havent written in quite some time. Have been reading thelast

couple days. Want to say Happy holidays to all of you. Im havinga dilemma inside

myself right now. I only figured out my nada was BPDmaybe 6 -8 months ago.

Explains alot! For those of you who never heard my recent story my adopted dad

diedin March. Before that for the previous 2 years I had gotten along withmy

nada famously, she had apologized to me for not being a mom when Iwas young etc.

I forgave her and finally felt I had a mom for thefirst time in my life. It wa

really nice. It is all but a memory now:( After Harvey died I went to the

funeral all was fine. I got homeand about a week later my nada started having a

meltdown. She has hada couple of psychotic breaks in the past seem to be

triggered when sheis alone. I live out of state from her and have since age 14

when shechecked herself into the hospital and I was told she wasnt coming

hometill I was gone. Was told at age 16 in a letter that I was the causeof her

so called agoraphobia. and the cause of all her problems. Wellthat same thought

pattern on her part resurfaced when she was having abreakdown in March. She

wrote me a nasty email telling me almost wordfor word the same things she told

me when I was 16! This was out of nowhere one day we got along next day I got

the nastygram! Almost likeshe was regressing. She was checked into the hospital

and had to beput on meds I know she is mentally ill. As was her mother. My mom

notonly has PBD but has psychotic episodes now and again. A couple yearsback she

was hospitalized for 3 months while trying to get her medsunder control. She

didn't even know who people were was sad. the problem for me is I realize

logically she is sick in the head butmy trust of her was totally shattered

beyond repair this last timeshe blasted me as I wasn't expecting it. I had

finally thought she hadchanged and grew up. We talked daily and got along. I

confided thingsto her I never had before. Now I dont trust anyone. And I wont

evertrust her again. Dr Phil said something the other day which resonated with

me he saidhow can you forgive someone who is stepping on your foot if they

arestill doing it? Sooo true! All of a sudden I had a light bulb moment and

realized why I didntfeel forgiveness. Then I told a close friend about that, she

thinksdiff then I do and thinks I should love my mother no matter what

andforgive her and put up with it because she is mentally ill just likeif she

was physically ill the difference being if physically ill shewouldn't be

emotionally hurting me. She has hurt me to the very coreof my being. I'm 44 and

have no desire to be with anyone in arelationship even because of her. I have

picked people just like herand no longer trust anyone I wish I didn't feel

this way as I feel so sad to think I am going tobe alone the rest of my life. I

have no kids never wanted them. Im notclose with any of my family and over the

holidays felt quite alone.Sad there is no one that loves me unconditionally. Im

at war inside ontalking with my nada I have talked to her since about 1-2 times

amonth is all its brief and nothing in depth, I find I get irritatedjust hearing

her voice now. I wish I could have back the relationshipI thought we had built,

but basically it was a lie Well am just rambling now. thanks for listening

any insight isappreciated R

_________________________________________________________________

Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!

http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlhmtextlink1_dec

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am glad you are posting again, and so sorry this had to happen to

you, especially at this time of year. We often hear how BPs don't

change, just pretend to do so. You have unfortunately been a

recipient of this. As with all of us, even BPs regress under

stress. But they don't even realize what they are doing, and they

sure don't realize how their actions and words are affecting others.

You were mistaken in trusting your mother, but that does not mean

there are not trustworthy people out there. Give yourself a break

here, as it is very, very natural to want to have a good

relationship after years of not having one. As for your friend, it

sounds like she doesn't understand how our childhood experiences

with a BPD parent require therapy, self-parenting, and lots of

healing to get to a point where we can trust ourselves, trust

others, and get to the point of forgiveness.

Finally, please start loving yourself unconditionally. That can be

part of your self parenting. Have you read the book, and done the

exercises, in Surviving the Borderline Parent? I found that to be

very helpful in working through many issues.

Take care,

sylvia

>

> Hi everyone I havent written in quite some time. Have been reading

the

> last couple days. Want to say Happy holidays to all of you. Im

having

> a dilemma inside myself right now. I only figured out my nada was

BPD

> maybe 6 -8 months ago. Explains alot!

> For those of you who never heard my recent story my adopted dad

died

> in March. Before that for the previous 2 years I had gotten along

with

> my nada famously, she had apologized to me for not being a mom

when I

> was young etc. I forgave her and finally felt I had a mom for the

> first time in my life. It wa really nice. It is all but a memory

now

> After Harvey died I went to the funeral all was fine. I got home

> and about a week later my nada started having a meltdown. She has

had

> a couple of psychotic breaks in the past seem to be triggered when

she

> is alone. I live out of state from her and have since age 14 when

she

> checked herself into the hospital and I was told she wasnt coming

home

> till I was gone. Was told at age 16 in a letter that I was the

cause

> of her so called agoraphobia. and the cause of all her problems.

Well

> that same thought pattern on her part resurfaced when she was

having a

> breakdown in March. She wrote me a nasty email telling me almost

word

> for word the same things she told me when I was 16! This was out

of no

> where one day we got along next day I got the nastygram! Almost

like

> she was regressing. She was checked into the hospital and had to be

> put on meds I know she is mentally ill. As was her mother. My mom

not

> only has PBD but has psychotic episodes now and again. A couple

years

> back she was hospitalized for 3 months while trying to get her meds

> under control. She didn't even know who people were was sad.

> the problem for me is I realize logically she is sick in the head

but

> my trust of her was totally shattered beyond repair this last time

> she blasted me as I wasn't expecting it. I had finally thought she

had

> changed and grew up. We talked daily and got along. I confided

things

> to her I never had before. Now I dont trust anyone. And I wont ever

> trust her again.

> Dr Phil said something the other day which resonated with me he

said

> how can you forgive someone who is stepping on your foot if they

are

> still doing it? Sooo true!

> All of a sudden I had a light bulb moment and realized why I didnt

> feel forgiveness. Then I told a close friend about that, she thinks

> diff then I do and thinks I should love my mother no matter what

and

> forgive her and put up with it because she is mentally ill just

like

> if she was physically ill the difference being if physically ill

she

> wouldn't be emotionally hurting me. She has hurt me to the very

core

> of my being. I'm 44 and have no desire to be with anyone in a

> relationship even because of her. I have picked people just like

her

> and no longer trust anyone

> I wish I didn't feel this way as I feel so sad to think I am going

to

> be alone the rest of my life. I have no kids never wanted them. Im

not

> close with any of my family and over the holidays felt quite alone.

> Sad there is no one that loves me unconditionally. Im at war

inside on

> talking with my nada I have talked to her since about 1-2 times a

> month is all its brief and nothing in depth, I find I get irritated

> just hearing her voice now. I wish I could have back the

relationship

> I thought we had built, but basically it was a lie

> Well am just rambling now. thanks for listening any insight is

> appreciated

> R

>

[Guest guest]

Hey, -- I'm so sorry you were going along so well. I would

have felt the same way -- and in fact my mother has apologized to my

brother in the past, saying " Well, I guess I didn't do that well as

a mother. " But, her old ways always pop back up. It's like someone

in a coma who briefly gains full cognizance and everyone is amazed,

then the person lapses back into the coma and " leaves " them again....

I think that's the root of the residual guilt I feel from going NC,

despite my father's desperation to get me over there to placate and

comfort my nada. The guilt comes from those happy times nada and I

have had in the past -- just like you have had recently with your

mother. I think all relationships that end badly must have had

their good times, or they wouldn't produce so much hurt in the

breakdown.

I know that a death in the BPDs life can trigger a BPD meltdown, so

your mother could, in fact, have meant everything she said when she

was loving and kind to you -- it's just that the " beast " of BPD is

too strong when something that is emotionally trying comes along

(especially a death). My own mother is in her deepest, darkest

depression yet, and her mother died last February. My mother's

reaction seems to be a little over the top, considering that her

mother was 90 years old and had been in badly declining health for

years -- constant battles to get her in the hospital, into rehab,

back home, back to the hospital, etc....Her quality of life was down

to nothing, etc.....My point of saying all that is that my mom's

reaction seems out of measure to the actual circumstances -- a sick,

90 year old woman's passing is sad, but hardly a tragedy. The

extremity of her reaction is probably due to her BPD, as is your

mother's.

And YOU seem to be the target she focuses on when she has a

breakdown. You don't deserve to be treated that way.

Please don't lump all humans into the " can't trust 'em " category --

sounds like you're reacting in anger to your mother's turnabout, and

that's completely understandable. Go ahead and be angry at your

mother and her BPD -- learn not to trust HER, but believe me, I have

a GREAT husband who has helped me navigate the minefield of my

parents, and I met him when I was young and had no clue what BPD was

or how terribly manipulative my parents were. It took another 20

years for me to see it, and my patient, wise, trustworthy husband

has been there every step of the way. He saw it almost immediately

in our courtship.

Once your anger has abated, with time, you'll come to some

understandings and, if anything, you'll learn to trust the " red

flags " when you see them in others, and take care of yourself

accordingly.

I'm not saying place blind trust in everyone, but at some point,

you're going to have to trust some people along the

way.....Otherwise, your mother's BPD will have claimed another

casualty. If I were you, I'd refuse to give up on people. Have the

confidence that, along with the bad, there's good out there, too,

and that you can handle what comes along.

I'm sorry you're going through this now -- I can feel empathy pains

along with you. I know these " turnabouts " are hurtful. My mother's

famous for them -- and I finally declared enough is enough and don't

come around for more. For that, I've been declared the bad child by

both parents, but so be it. The truth is the truth.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sylvia!

I dont have the book Surv the BPD parent. I have walking on eggshells

and understanding the borderline mother. Does that book have any diff

info in it. ?

Yes my friend thinks people shouldnt need therapy more then a month

either. Thinks we need to let the past go and move on. My aunt who I

lived with for a few years was like that too. Just doesnt happen so

easy when your extremely wounded.

> >

> > Hi everyone I havent written in quite some time. Have been reading

> the

> > last couple days. Want to say Happy holidays to all of you. Im

> having

> > a dilemma inside myself right now. I only figured out my nada was

> BPD

> > maybe 6 -8 months ago. Explains alot!

> > For those of you who never heard my recent story my adopted dad

> died

> > in March. Before that for the previous 2 years I had gotten along

> with

> > my nada famously, she had apologized to me for not being a mom

> when I

> > was young etc. I forgave her and finally felt I had a mom for the

> > first time in my life. It wa really nice. It is all but a memory

> now

> > After Harvey died I went to the funeral all was fine. I got home

> > and about a week later my nada started having a meltdown. She has

> had

> > a couple of psychotic breaks in the past seem to be triggered when

> she

> > is alone. I live out of state from her and have since age 14 when

> she

> > checked herself into the hospital and I was told she wasnt coming

> home

> > till I was gone. Was told at age 16 in a letter that I was the

> cause

> > of her so called agoraphobia. and the cause of all her problems.

> Well

> > that same thought pattern on her part resurfaced when she was

> having a

> > breakdown in March. She wrote me a nasty email telling me almost

> word

> > for word the same things she told me when I was 16! This was out

> of no

> > where one day we got along next day I got the nastygram! Almost

> like

> > she was regressing. She was checked into the hospital and had to be

> > put on meds I know she is mentally ill. As was her mother. My mom

> not

> > only has PBD but has psychotic episodes now and again. A couple

> years

> > back she was hospitalized for 3 months while trying to get her meds

> > under control. She didn't even know who people were was sad.

> > the problem for me is I realize logically she is sick in the head

> but

> > my trust of her was totally shattered beyond repair this last time

> > she blasted me as I wasn't expecting it. I had finally thought she

> had

> > changed and grew up. We talked daily and got along. I confided

> things

> > to her I never had before. Now I dont trust anyone. And I wont ever

> > trust her again.

> > Dr Phil said something the other day which resonated with me he

> said

> > how can you forgive someone who is stepping on your foot if they

> are

> > still doing it? Sooo true!

> > All of a sudden I had a light bulb moment and realized why I didnt

> > feel forgiveness. Then I told a close friend about that, she thinks

> > diff then I do and thinks I should love my mother no matter what

> and

> > forgive her and put up with it because she is mentally ill just

> like

> > if she was physically ill the difference being if physically ill

> she

> > wouldn't be emotionally hurting me. She has hurt me to the very

> core

> > of my being. I'm 44 and have no desire to be with anyone in a

> > relationship even because of her. I have picked people just like

> her

> > and no longer trust anyone

> > I wish I didn't feel this way as I feel so sad to think I am going

> to

> > be alone the rest of my life. I have no kids never wanted them. Im

> not

> > close with any of my family and over the holidays felt quite alone.

> > Sad there is no one that loves me unconditionally. Im at war

> inside on

> > talking with my nada I have talked to her since about 1-2 times a

> > month is all its brief and nothing in depth, I find I get irritated

> > just hearing her voice now. I wish I could have back the

> relationship

> > I thought we had built, but basically it was a lie

> > Well am just rambling now. thanks for listening any insight is

> > appreciated

> > R

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mother in law recommended the book to me and never

had time to read it. She has mentioned some really

good points in it. Her mother also is a BP. I don't

think that what we have gone through can be fixed in a

month. What we feel and been through can't just be

earased from our memories. The past, we can never let

go of them. That is all we know and have. We can only

expect the best for our future. Wounded-that is what

we are. No matter what people say our past will never

escape us no matter how hard we try.

--- wrote:

> Thanks Sylvia!

> I dont have the book Surv the BPD parent. I have

> walking on eggshells

> and understanding the borderline mother. Does that

> book have any diff

> info in it. ?

> Yes my friend thinks people shouldnt need therapy

> more then a month

> either. Thinks we need to let the past go and move

> on. My aunt who I

> lived with for a few years was like that too. Just

> doesnt happen so

> easy when your extremely wounded.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi everyone I havent written in quite some time.

> Have been reading

> > the

> > > last couple days. Want to say Happy holidays to

> all of you. Im

> > having

> > > a dilemma inside myself right now. I only

> figured out my nada was

> > BPD

> > > maybe 6 -8 months ago. Explains alot!

> > > For those of you who never heard my recent story

> my adopted dad

> > died

> > > in March. Before that for the previous 2 years I

> had gotten along

> > with

> > > my nada famously, she had apologized to me for

> not being a mom

> > when I

> > > was young etc. I forgave her and finally felt I

> had a mom for the

> > > first time in my life. It wa really nice. It is

> all but a memory

> > now

> > > After Harvey died I went to the funeral all

> was fine. I got home

> > > and about a week later my nada started having a

> meltdown. She has

> > had

> > > a couple of psychotic breaks in the past seem to

> be triggered when

> > she

> > > is alone. I live out of state from her and have

> since age 14 when

> > she

> > > checked herself into the hospital and I was told

> she wasnt coming

> > home

> > > till I was gone. Was told at age 16 in a letter

> that I was the

> > cause

> > > of her so called agoraphobia. and the cause of

> all her problems.

> > Well

> > > that same thought pattern on her part resurfaced

> when she was

> > having a

> > > breakdown in March. She wrote me a nasty email

> telling me almost

> > word

> > > for word the same things she told me when I was

> 16! This was out

> > of no

> > > where one day we got along next day I got the

> nastygram! Almost

> > like

> > > she was regressing. She was checked into the

> hospital and had to be

> > > put on meds I know she is mentally ill. As was

> her mother. My mom

> > not

> > > only has PBD but has psychotic episodes now and

> again. A couple

> > years

> > > back she was hospitalized for 3 months while

> trying to get her meds

> > > under control. She didn't even know who people

> were was sad.

> > > the problem for me is I realize logically she is

> sick in the head

> > but

> > > my trust of her was totally shattered beyond

> repair this last time

> > > she blasted me as I wasn't expecting it. I had

> finally thought she

> > had

> > > changed and grew up. We talked daily and got

> along. I confided

> > things

> > > to her I never had before. Now I dont trust

> anyone. And I wont ever

> > > trust her again.

> > > Dr Phil said something the other day which

> resonated with me he

> > said

> > > how can you forgive someone who is stepping on

> your foot if they

> > are

> > > still doing it? Sooo true!

> > > All of a sudden I had a light bulb moment and

> realized why I didnt

> > > feel forgiveness. Then I told a close friend

> about that, she thinks

> > > diff then I do and thinks I should love my

> mother no matter what

> > and

> > > forgive her and put up with it because she is

> mentally ill just

> > like

> > > if she was physically ill the difference being

> if physically ill

> > she

> > > wouldn't be emotionally hurting me. She has hurt

> me to the very

> > core

> > > of my being. I'm 44 and have no desire to be

> with anyone in a

> > > relationship even because of her. I have picked

> people just like

> > her

> > > and no longer trust anyone

> > > I wish I didn't feel this way as I feel so sad

> to think I am going

> > to

> > > be alone the rest of my life. I have no kids

> never wanted them. Im

> > not

> > > close with any of my family and over the

> holidays felt quite alone.

> > > Sad there is no one that loves me

> unconditionally. Im at war

> > inside on

> > > talking with my nada I have talked to her since

> about 1-2 times a

> > > month is all its brief and nothing in depth, I

> find I get irritated

> > > just hearing her voice now. I wish I could have

> back the

> > relationship

> > > I thought we had built, but basically it was a

> lie

> > > Well am just rambling now. thanks for listening

> any insight is

> > > appreciated

> > > R

>

=== message truncated ===

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Kyla and Everybody,

My husband has also been with me every step of the way in this process with my

BPD mom. He also said he knew she was " crazy " the day he met her. I have one

friend whom I've known all my life (since 1 year old) and she also told me she

knew my mom had a very unhealthy relationship with me (didn't let me separate

from her). I wonder how all these people can see the truth but I couldn't? I

guess it is because they had someone healthy in their life, family, friends so

they could now recognize unhealthy behavior. I didn't. I just had my mother and

father who both have narcissistic and borderline tendencies along with OCD and a

host of other things. I didn't have Grandparents, cousins, friends, church

friends or any other adult I could reach out to. I believe because of this I

suffered more from my childhood situation than my sister, she had older women to

look up to and talk with (because my mother saw her as the bad child and had

little to do with her growing up). Has anyone had a similar situation?

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: femspirit@...: Fri, 28 Dec

2007 07:17:41 +0000Subject: Re: Hi Everyone

Hi Kyla,As usual you have very good insight. Ive always been the " bad " childtoo

even if I didnt do anything bad. My brother is the all good one. Ialways thought

of him as mommas boy. He has tried to distance himselffrom her too but he has

always jumped to the forefront if she needsanything. Like this last time she had

to go into the hospital she toldeverybody she didnt want to talk to me and I

hadnt said anything! Icould not believe it. even thinking back right now it

brings tears tomy eyes it was so hurtful. She is like jekyl and hyde. hate it. I

havedistanced myself now 1-2 times a month is way more then enough. And Ikeep

myself guarded the whole time, so far so good. She hasnt saidanything bad. Its

like after she got out of the hospital and a couplemonths later she talked to me

again like nothing had happened and atthis point it wouldnt even be worth

discussing as she just doesnt hearwhat I say, and twists things I say around to

mean something else.Ihate that all of you went through similar things but also

am glad tohave people that understand. I went so many years with no

oneunderstanding like my friend. I even gave her walking on eggshells toread

which she did. But still doesnt get the concept of severe mentalabuse. So just

choose to not talk to her about my mom for the most part. Interesting about your

mom after her moms death. My mom wasnt eventhis depressed after her own mom died

but then she didnt like her. Shewas totally dependent on Harvey she bossed him

around and he put upwith it. And obviouvsly it has had an extreme effect sad to

say. I wasnt that close with him but was very sad as he was a nice guy. Ilost

him and felt I lost my mom too at the same time:( Thanks again>> Hey,

-- I'm so sorry you were going along so well. I would > have felt the

same way -- and in fact my mother has apologized to my > brother in the past,

saying " Well, I guess I didn't do that well as > a mother. " But, her old ways

always pop back up. It's like someone > in a coma who briefly gains full

cognizance and everyone is amazed, > then the person lapses back into the coma

and " leaves " them again....> > I think that's the root of the residual guilt I

feel from going NC, > despite my father's desperation to get me over there to

placate and > comfort my nada. The guilt comes from those happy times nada and I

> have had in the past -- just like you have had recently with your > mother. I

think all relationships that end badly must have had > their good times, or they

wouldn't produce so much hurt in the > breakdown.> > I know that a death in the

BPDs life can trigger a BPD meltdown, so > your mother could, in fact, have

meant everything she said when she > was loving and kind to you -- it's just

that the " beast " of BPD is > too strong when something that is emotionally

trying comes along > (especially a death). My own mother is in her deepest,

darkest > depression yet, and her mother died last February. My mother's >

reaction seems to be a little over the top, considering that her > mother was 90

years old and had been in badly declining health for > years -- constant battles

to get her in the hospital, into rehab, > back home, back to the hospital,

etc....Her quality of life was down > to nothing, etc.....My point of saying all

that is that my mom's > reaction seems out of measure to the actual

circumstances -- a sick, > 90 year old woman's passing is sad, but hardly a

tragedy. The > extremity of her reaction is probably due to her BPD, as is your

> mother's.> > And YOU seem to be the target she focuses on when she has a >

breakdown. You don't deserve to be treated that way.> > Please don't lump all

humans into the " can't trust 'em " category -- > sounds like you're reacting in

anger to your mother's turnabout, and > that's completely understandable. Go

ahead and be angry at your > mother and her BPD -- learn not to trust HER, but

believe me, I have > a GREAT husband who has helped me navigate the minefield of

my > parents, and I met him when I was young and had no clue what BPD was > or

how terribly manipulative my parents were. It took another 20 > years for me to

see it, and my patient, wise, trustworthy husband > has been there every step of

the way. He saw it almost immediately > in our courtship.> > Once your anger has

abated, with time, you'll come to some > understandings and, if anything, you'll

learn to trust the " red > flags " when you see them in others, and take care of

yourself > accordingly.> > I'm not saying place blind trust in everyone, but at

some point, > you're going to have to trust some people along the >

way.....Otherwise, your mother's BPD will have claimed another > casualty. If I

were you, I'd refuse to give up on people. Have the > confidence that, along

with the bad, there's good out there, too, > and that you can handle what comes

along.> > I'm sorry you're going through this now -- I can feel empathy pains >

along with you. I know these " turnabouts " are hurtful. My mother's > famous for

them -- and I finally declared enough is enough and don't > come around for

more. For that, I've been declared the bad child by > both parents, but so be

it. The truth is the truth. > > -Kyla>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

,

The complete title of this book is " Surviving a Borderline Parent -

How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and

Self-Esteem " . It has a forward by Randi Kreeger, who is our list

owner and the author of 'Stop Walking on Eggshells'. Here is some

of what Randi wrote in the forward:

" If 'Stop Walking on Eggshells' has become the bible for people with

a borderline family member, I predict that 'Surviving a Borderline

Parent' will become the 'must have' book for people who have a

parent with borderline traits. Authors Kimberlee Roth and Freda

Friedman have done a stunning job of validating the isolating

experience of these'adult children,' and more importantly, shown

them how to overcome the constant feelings of guilt, abnormality,

and self-doubt. This book belongs on the shelf of every clinician

and adult child with a borderline parent. "

Lawson, author of " Understanding the Borderline Mother "

wrote this: ' (Authors) provide comprehensive guidelines for adult

children with borderline parents that help create balance and

boundaries in these tumultuous relationships. The authors point to

the need to break the 'silent treatment' around Borderline

Personality Disorder and encourage clinicians to educate patients

and family members about this diagnosis. This book is well worth the

investment for any adult child with a borderline parent.'

This is really a workbook, and there are many exercises that you can

do to help with your healing. (I think it is time for me to do the

exercises again!)

As far as your friend's and aunt's attitude to forgiveness and

healing - I will try to state my views in a way that are not

insulting or condesending to them. My personal experience is that

there are many people who do not have emotional depth. They are

often very fact oriented, requiring 'proof' before accepting

thoughts, ideas, etc. (The converse is not necessarily true,

however.) They also have not suffered severe abuse of any kind. So

their world has been pretty stable, constant, even predictable.

Then there is us. We have emotional depth - and have been hurt at

every level of our emotions. (In fact, I think that one of the

reasons this affects us so much is because of our emotional depth.)

These friends cannot even comprehend life as we have known it.

There are also people who make these statements because they are

using them as coping mechanisms. They don't want to look at their

own dysfunctional families, and so use these statements to avoid

doing so.

The cookie cutter approach - the same treatment/approach for all -

does not work. I had to teach myself not to expect or solicit

support from such people, as they cannot provide the type of support

and understanding that I need. At the same time, I have found

friends in this category to be helpful when I needed immediate

grounding - something to focus on when my emotions were getting away

from me. These are the friends who taught me how to manage many of

my necessary skills for meeting adult responsibilities - budget,

purchasing, housekeeping, etc.

We KOs are trying to let the past go and move on....but just saying

the words doesn't do it - nor does forcing the issue. There are

parts of our development that were seriously injured, and that has

to be healed before we can let go and move on.

I hope this helps,

Sylvia

>

> Thanks Sylvia!

> I dont have the book Surv the BPD parent. I have walking on

eggshells

> and understanding the borderline mother. Does that book have any

diff

> info in it. ?

> Yes my friend thinks people shouldnt need therapy more then a month

> either. Thinks we need to let the past go and move on. My aunt who

I

> lived with for a few years was like that too. Just doesnt happen so

> easy when your extremely wounded.

>

>

>.......

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sylvia for saying what you did here. I needed to hear that it

is ok for me to feel what I do , Its frustrating only hearing I

shouldnt feel certain ways....

Im going to go get that book and get rolling in it!

> >

> > Thanks Sylvia!

> > I dont have the book Surv the BPD parent. I have walking on

> eggshells

> > and understanding the borderline mother. Does that book have any

> diff

> > info in it. ?

> > Yes my friend thinks people shouldnt need therapy more then a month

> > either. Thinks we need to let the past go and move on. My aunt who

> I

> > lived with for a few years was like that too. Just doesnt happen so

> > easy when your extremely wounded.

> >

> >

> >.......

>

[Guest guest]

,

I was so sad for you when I read your post. My stepfather just passed last

month and I

knew my nada would be difficult to deal with. I found this website just before

he passed. I

I was lucky in that I always knew that my nada would only behave some of the

time and

was never lulled into thinking I could trust her. I always wondered why I guard

myself so

much but after reading on this post for a few weeks I can see why I am the way I

am.

Please don't be so hard on yourself. We all want a loving and trustworthy mother

that

nurtures us and allows us to grow. The fact that you had a good relationship

for a while is

a testament to your adoptive father. He must have really been a buffer for her

to the

world. I like to think of the times of peace and stable relations as the

potential. It is

heartbreaking and cruel when the BP regresses into past behaviors. It is what

they are

capable of in those stable times that makes it so hard.

If you can get in with a therapist or support group for adult children of a BP I

think you

can start to lay claim to the healing that you deserve. You can figure out how

to stop

attracting people that betray you in the way your mother has. As for your

friend...she has

no reference to what it is actually like to deal with this illness. My best

friend growing up

just recently poopooed me when I said that my mom has BPD. She has known my mom

for over thirty years and knows how bad she was. Her own mother is an

unbelievable

narcissist. Has absolutely no social graces and is only outshone by my own

mother in the

dysfunctional category. When I called her on it she admitted that she just had

a

conversation with her brother that thinks he is BPD. She was not in a place

where she

wanted to hear about that. Sometimes you have to be selective in who you talk

to about

this stuff. Most people don't want to believe it. Even the ones that do

believe you don't

always want to hear about it.

Find a good therapist . You seem like a nice lady. You deserve to find

love for

yourself and healing. You can tell all of us about your struggles and triumphs.

We are a

safe place to speak your truth.

I am forty years old and just getting started too. Hang in there. You are

going to get past

this.

xoxo and a BIIIIGGG cyber {{{{hug}}}} to you

Carla

>

> Hi everyone I havent written in quite some time. Have been reading the

> last couple days. Want to say Happy holidays to all of you. Im having

> a dilemma inside myself right now. I only figured out my nada was BPD

> maybe 6 -8 months ago. Explains alot!

> For those of you who never heard my recent story my adopted dad died

> in March. Before that for the previous 2 years I had gotten along with

> my nada famously, she had apologized to me for not being a mom when I

> was young etc. I forgave her and finally felt I had a mom for the

> first time in my life. It wa really nice. It is all but a memory now

> After Harvey died I went to the funeral all was fine. I got home

> and about a week later my nada started having a meltdown. She has had

> a couple of psychotic breaks in the past seem to be triggered when she

> is alone. I live out of state from her and have since age 14 when she

> checked herself into the hospital and I was told she wasnt coming home

> till I was gone. Was told at age 16 in a letter that I was the cause

> of her so called agoraphobia. and the cause of all her problems. Well

> that same thought pattern on her part resurfaced when she was having a

> breakdown in March. She wrote me a nasty email telling me almost word

> for word the same things she told me when I was 16! This was out of no

> where one day we got along next day I got the nastygram! Almost like

> she was regressing. She was checked into the hospital and had to be

> put on meds I know she is mentally ill. As was her mother. My mom not

> only has PBD but has psychotic episodes now and again. A couple years

> back she was hospitalized for 3 months while trying to get her meds

> under control. She didn't even know who people were was sad.

> the problem for me is I realize logically she is sick in the head but

> my trust of her was totally shattered beyond repair this last time

> she blasted me as I wasn't expecting it. I had finally thought she had

> changed and grew up. We talked daily and got along. I confided things

> to her I never had before. Now I dont trust anyone. And I wont ever

> trust her again.

> Dr Phil said something the other day which resonated with me he said

> how can you forgive someone who is stepping on your foot if they are

> still doing it? Sooo true!

> All of a sudden I had a light bulb moment and realized why I didnt

> feel forgiveness. Then I told a close friend about that, she thinks

> diff then I do and thinks I should love my mother no matter what and

> forgive her and put up with it because she is mentally ill just like

> if she was physically ill the difference being if physically ill she

> wouldn't be emotionally hurting me. She has hurt me to the very core

> of my being. I'm 44 and have no desire to be with anyone in a

> relationship even because of her. I have picked people just like her

> and no longer trust anyone

> I wish I didn't feel this way as I feel so sad to think I am going to

> be alone the rest of my life. I have no kids never wanted them. Im not

> close with any of my family and over the holidays felt quite alone.

> Sad there is no one that loves me unconditionally. Im at war inside on

> talking with my nada I have talked to her since about 1-2 times a

> month is all its brief and nothing in depth, I find I get irritated

> just hearing her voice now. I wish I could have back the relationship

> I thought we had built, but basically it was a lie

> Well am just rambling now. thanks for listening any insight is

> appreciated

> R

>