Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 , Thank you for your very insightful reply. Particularly helpful is the explaination of what you experienced because of the sympathy of others. Sylvia > > Sylvia: > Something we often post about, but don't hear much about, is how we > will feel after our parents are dead. In talking about this with my > former therapist, we agreed that I have already mourned the loss of > my parents - not through a physical death, but through the knowledge > that they never were true parents, and through the death of my > fantasies of having a loving family. > > If you could, would you share with us your experiences regarding the > difference between experiencing the physical deaths of your parents > and the death of your dreams of a happy family. > > > Sylvia, > > > > Thanks for asking this question. I have also wondered how the > > grieving process will be different when they physically pass away. > > I'm also interested in hearing from or anyone else whose > > BP parent has died about their experience with different kinds > > of grief. > > > > I likewise ditto 's eloquent thanks to everyone on the board. > > See y'all around =) > > > > > > > Thanks to Sylvia and for bringing up questions about grief > in the borderline family. I thought this should be its own thread. > > When my nada died, I knew nothing about BPD, that was still to be > a few years away. I don't think that I can answer quite the question > that Sylvia poses, because there was no validation for me that my > mother had a mental illness. I was questioning all that on my own, > but the family usually blamed me for problems, not her. There was > tons of denial. She was bedridden in the hospital for a year before > finally succumbing to terminal stomach cancer. She claimed that she > had a hiatal hernia, and never mentioned to us that she was dying. > > I didn't have a WTO group back then. If I had, then everything > would have been different and better. I hope that others here can > share their experiences of losing their BP parents. > > I highly recommend having someone with you who understands what you > have lived through. If you have a sympathetic sibling or partner, > then that is a good thing. Also, just being on this group is great > support and will help you through your grieving process(es). If/when > these events happen to you, please write to the group and talk about > what you are going through -- even you folks who never posted before. > > The funeral was particularly hard on me, for reasons that won't > be immediately obvious, put you will relate as soon as I start > describing what happened ... > > The neighbors, relatives and church members show up at the funeral > home. Then they start saying what everyone says at funerals ... > > 'Your nada, she was such a lovely, loving soul. So kind, and she > worked so hard for you kids. We will all miss her, just like you > will miss her. I know that she is watching you from heaven, and > that she is very proud of you. You are so much like her' ... > > I'm trying to smile at the well-intentioned neighbors, wishing that > I could stick my finger down my throat. This scene is so alienating, > very disruptive to what should have been my own grieving process. > > The problem was that the roles were all screwed up, again. Here, > the neighbors were supposed to be there to comfort ME, but instead, > I end up faking along, so that THEY will feel welcome and comfortable > at the funeral. They weren't doing anything wrong, of course, but > MY grieving process was being postponed. You will do better if you > know this in advance and have someone (real) to help you through it. > > It's also important to see in nada that she is a spiritual being who > gave us life, crazy as it may have been. So the duality of grieving > that Sylvia is mentioning above played out a little differently in > my experience. On one hand I would get some permanent relief from > nada's raging and surrealism, but it/she was still my mother. The > struggles to resolve this desire for meaning and intimacy -- the > mysteries of life -- are further complicated for us KOs, and can > last with us for many years. > > Thanks, and I'll try to share some more later. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2007 Report Share Posted December 16, 2007 Thanks for bringing up this topic. , thanks for sharing your experience. I'd be very interested in hearing from others who have gone through this or who may be going through it soon. I can SO imagine this scene, ! My mother is aging, and aging very badly with a lot of pain and health issues, so this has been on my mind somehow. A few weeks ago I went to the service for an aunt, a much loved and nurturing relative. My 2 sisters also went though it was thousands of miles for all of us. Anyway one sis brought up the topic of what kind of service we'd like for our mother. She's very agenda oriented and wants things planned in advance so this may come up again and again though the rest of us are a bit more spontaneous in decision making.. anyway the problem is I can either imagine the scene you described-- listening to all those wonderful comments from people-- or even worse. Sis was saying how the aunt's service was not so good because the pastor mainly went on about the life of Jesus as opposed to making personal touches. Sis likes the personal touches. The only thing I could imagine worse than listening to others comments about how wonderful she is, would be to try to have to speak publically in a way that eulogizes her in a really positive way. What can I say? She fed and clothed me and drove me to chorus once a week. Not very inspirational at all. The other thing is, my spiritual outlook is very different from the rest of my family so I am sure that this question of what I would like is irrelevant. To me scattering ashes over a waterfall or some scenic, beautiful place and some moments of silence might be the most ideal service if it were up to me and I didn't need to consider others. It is enough. Besides which the BPD in our mother has been coming out stronger and stronger and she has alienated almost everyone outside the family and I wonder who would even come. I have the vague feeling sis is going to keep bringing this subject up (planning), and I am not sure how to handle it because though she says she wants our ideas I am pretty sure she wouldn't be at all interested in my actual feelings because they don't conform to her own reality. > > Thanks to Sylvia and for bringing up questions about grief > in the borderline family. I thought this should be its own thread. > > When my nada died, I knew nothing about BPD, that was still to be > a few years away. I don't think that I can answer quite the question > that Sylvia poses, because there was no validation for me that my > mother had a mental illness. I was questioning all that on my own, > but the family usually blamed me for problems, not her. There was > tons of denial. She was bedridden in the hospital for a year before > finally succumbing to terminal stomach cancer. She claimed that she > had a hiatal hernia, and never mentioned to us that she was dying. > > I didn't have a WTO group back then. If I had, then everything > would have been different and better. I hope that others here can > share their experiences of losing their BP parents. > > I highly recommend having someone with you who understands what you > have lived through. If you have a sympathetic sibling or partner, > then that is a good thing. Also, just being on this group is great > support and will help you through your grieving process(es). If/when > these events happen to you, please write to the group and talk about > what you are going through -- even you folks who never posted before. > > The funeral was particularly hard on me, for reasons that won't > be immediately obvious, put you will relate as soon as I start > describing what happened ... > > The neighbors, relatives and church members show up at the funeral > home. Then they start saying what everyone says at funerals ... > > 'Your nada, she was such a lovely, loving soul. So kind, and she > worked so hard for you kids. We will all miss her, just like you > will miss her. I know that she is watching you from heaven, and > that she is very proud of you. You are so much like her' ... > > I'm trying to smile at the well-intentioned neighbors, wishing that > I could stick my finger down my throat. This scene is so alienating, > very disruptive to what should have been my own grieving process. > > The problem was that the roles were all screwed up, again. Here, > the neighbors were supposed to be there to comfort ME, but instead, > I end up faking along, so that THEY will feel welcome and comfortable > at the funeral. They weren't doing anything wrong, of course, but > MY grieving process was being postponed. You will do better if you > know this in advance and have someone (real) to help you through it. > > It's also important to see in nada that she is a spiritual being who > gave us life, crazy as it may have been. So the duality of grieving > that Sylvia is mentioning above played out a little differently in > my experience. On one hand I would get some permanent relief from > nada's raging and surrealism, but it/she was still my mother. The > struggles to resolve this desire for meaning and intimacy -- the > mysteries of life -- are further complicated for us KOs, and can > last with us for many years. > > Thanks, and I'll try to share some more later. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 17, 2007 Report Share Posted December 17, 2007 > I can SO imagine this scene, ! My mother is aging, and aging > very badly with a lot of pain and health issues, so this has been > on my mind somehow. A few weeks ago I went to the service for an > aunt, a much loved and nurturing relative. My 2 sisters also went > though it was thousands of miles for all of us. Anyway one sis > brought up the topic of what kind of service we'd like for our > mother ... I mentioned in my post how important it is to have some genuine support, in the form of sympathetic sibs, friends, spouse, therapist and the folks here on the WTO boards. Just as living with a BP parent is not a 'normal' experience, losing them is not normal either. There is a lot of questioning as to what exactly it is that we are losing? You are entitled to grieve in a way that is appropriate for you -- whatever it is. But your church, community, and the funeral industry (the newspapers, etc) are not designed for this kind of spiritual and psychological processing. It is hard enough to discuss a mentally ill parent with your priest or rabbi, for example, while they are still living. But during the rituals of mourning it gets all the more complicated. Under ideal circumstances this would be talked about and worked through in advance. In my own family, it wasn't talked about at all -- ever. More separation of myself from my own perceptions. Don't think. Don't be sensitive. Be a good kid. Be a good caregiver. (Thinking is not good) ... This sense of having kindred and nurturing souls around -- empathizers or mirrorors -- is important in childhood too, I think. How isolated (controlled) were you in growing up? agreed with me on how her parents had 'strangely superficial' relationships. No reliable outside, adult inputs, or 'rapport'. This sense of isolation is likely to revisit you during the stress of a parent's funeral, unless you have good back-up. Get some good help now. > The other thing is, my spiritual outlook is very different from the > rest of my family so I am sure that this question of what I would like > is irrelevant. To me scattering ashes over a waterfall or some scenic, > beautiful place and some moments of silence might be the most ideal > service if it were up to me and I didn't need to consider others. It > is enough ... Exactly, icebergs03. We KOs have a LOT of peace to make with our BP parents. There may be NO WAY to work out burial plans that can meet the needs of our families and ourselves. Just as LC and NC are necessary practices in working on our own individual growth, you may need to tend to some of your own grief/work in your own time, and in your own meaningful, spiritual way. I definitely want for you to go visit that waterfall, and have that dialog with your nada or fada that could never happen in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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