Re: Please Help me by giving your opinion of an Email recieved from my mom.

December 17, 2007

OH MY!!!! WOW! WHere do you start? How do you begin to process something that

convoluted, scheming, mean, and controlling. Wow! Many of the things she said

have been things my mother has said to me (you owe us your life, we gave you

everything, we paid for everything etc.). My pastor says, " if you listen close

enough to people they will confess their own sins. " I believe your mother is

confessing or better yet projecting her own sins (issues) onto you and your

wife. She has no boundaries not even between her friends. Basically she is

saying to you because you called a " friend " of hers you are a controlling,

disobedient, son not even worthy of talking to those whom she knows personally.

Wow she has a god complex. I think this is BPD in its truest form. In fact, I'm

keeping this letter just to remind myself of the true character of BPD. Don't

fall into her trap. She is shooting on all cylinders trying to use a last ditch

effort to reel you back into her cocoon. Stay strong. I'm sorry about that, that

had to hurt coming from your own mother.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: tmess9@...: Mon, 17 Dec

2007 19:56:11 +0000Subject: Please Help me by giving your

opinion of an Email recieved from my mom.

My parents and I have been arguing since summer now, and nothing we do helps

things. I question whether my mom has a BPD, or some other mental illness. I

ackknowledge I have probably made mistakes, as has my wife, but i am just

wondering what people's opinion is on the email i recieved after a fight i had

with her. I am at a loss and any insights or advice would be greatly

appreciated, sorry this email is really long....You have some nerve using YOUR

parent's friend to still do your job on your apartment! What a hypocrite you

are. If you truly wanted to distance yourself from us and be your own man, you

certainly wouldn't be calling our friends to help you out. Sure, get your

discount rate but ignore your parent's who were the one's who enabled you to get

it!!. It'd be like us calling one of your friends to do us a favor now, how

would that feel Tony? I'm sure you wouldn't be at all pleased with that scenario

and that you'd actually be angry that your friend even obliged you. However, our

friend Homer is too nice of a guy not to work something out for you simply

because YOU ARE OUR CHILD!!!! Why not tell Homer about what you think of your

mom and dad? Why not tell Homer how you wouldn't let us in the apartment, how

you threatened to call the police on your mom and then called your mother a

f'ing bitch! Why not tell him that it's been 5 days since and you still have no

remorse?Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's do

and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your still continue

using us to your advantage now don't you?What have your wife's parent's friends

done for you? Or for that matter what has you wife done for you except leave you

in anguish because she can't be satisfied. What a cop out your phony complaint

list was, and I knew the minute you got to the part about how we didn't " include

Becca in our conversation " , what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd

grade mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a general

conversation? How old is she? When she is with your friends does she need to

have everyone doting on her (well that's probably a silly question now, isn't

it?)There is no end to you and your wife's hypocrisy. You want to do your

apartment and be free and clear of us then you find someone else to do it other

then our friends. I think Homer will enjoy hearing what you said to us and how

you've kicked your parent's around and treated us like the morning trash. Homer

is very loyal so I know this will be a conflict for him if I decide to tell

him.You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too? No, we

didn't do anything for you in your life did we? Who gave you the fling flying

loan? Who gave you the wedding loan? Who put you through an $80,000 college and

paid for all your expenses? Who held a rehearsal dinner at her soon to be

daughter in laws request? Who paid over $2,000 dollars for open bar and

appetizers when we didn't want an open bar! Who gave you a big check when you

got married? Who dropped people form the wedding list to make you happy so you

could some bartenders from Rock Bottom? Who didn't get to pick out the

invitations to the rehearsal dinner we sponsored because your wife did it on the

sly?!!!! What issues were made of that Tony? Wasn't it us once again who gave in

to keep the peace? Who gave you a car to use through high school and part of

college? Who paid for you to play soccer for how many years AFTER college, with

no recognition from you? Who put's nothing but sincere thought into my gift

giving for both you and your wife despite our differences, Huh, Ton, who is it?

Who invited you guys to go to Hawaii with us at a cost of $6,000? Do you think

we did that because we wanted to have nothing to do with your wife?!!! We did it

to help us bond more, however we couldn't have dreamed that she would behave the

way she did and that the two of you would ignore our wish to spend most of our

time together. And yes, you are accountable because YOU heard it first hand from

me what we wanted, but you continued to chip away at what I requested because

your wife put you up to it or perhaps because you knew Becca was incapable of

spending time with us pleasantly. And, if it was you who didn't want to spend

time with us then you should have been the way you used to be, honest, and told

us so. Perhaps we wouldn't have had you come and we would have saved a ton of

money. As far as validated goes, you've got to be kidding? Let's see if I

remember right. You initially told me Becca was one day late, you weren't trying

for a baby, she had no reason to believe she was pregnant yet she thought she

saw something when she got her heavier then usual period. Gee, didn't she just

switch pills (or at least you told me she did.) Changing the pill would account

for a different flow. IF she thought she was pregnant and miscarried it would

have been easy enough to find out with a simple 3 minute home pregnancy kit

right then. Since even if you miscarry you still have the elevated levels of

hormone in your blood that would indicate you were indeed pregnant. Let's see

that means she could have put her worries to rest the 1st day of the trip, and

she is validated for her mood for the entire trip to Hawaii? Let me ask you

something, how was her mood alone with you? She certainly seemed to be having a

good time then!!!!! How could you dismiss her actions with us so easily and then

turn them around to blame us? No, we're not understanding because she didn't

want to be pregnant, and you guys weren't trying. I could see a day or two max

at being down about possibly miscarrying but when there were so many avenues

that could have been taken to alleviate her worries there is no excuse! If you

don't like to hear this too bad. Why don't you call her ob/gyn and ask the nurse

if she would have seen tissue at two weeks pregnant as she claims? What ever she

saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for her behavior on the

trip. But there is no excusing her behavior because there were hospitals, drs.,

pregnancy tests, nurses in her ob office, or even your idiot mom that she could

have contacted or talked to. But see, I would have known it was ruse so she

couldn't talk to me. It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you

face that the sooner you can manage your wife. Who wouldn't do this in order to

ease their mind and have a good time in a place like Hawaii? Do you think you'll

ever go there again? You won't be able to afford it, face it. If it weren't for

us you would have never gone there, and she was determined to be alone with you

because SHE DOESN'T " T LIKE US, not the other way around. Dad buys her a lei and

she claims she's allergic to flowers!!! I know you have bought her flowers many

times and I've never heard that excuse before. Every time she comes to our house

now she says she has allergies to my cats. Is this a recent phenomena? Maybe one

that will build the excuse for her not being able to come over here eventually?

Wake up! This little blip of a vacation was the dream trip that any other child

or person for that matter would have given their left arm for, and yet who ends

up trying to make amends but us?!!!! You've got to be kidding right? We're

supposed to be understanding of a miscarriage she didn't have and didn't find

out until she got home from the trip, coincidentally? Even with all the avenues

she had? And why didn't you get her to act sooner to find out it wasn't a

pregnancy so that she could enjoy herself? Is it perhaps because she didn't tell

you this excuse until she was cornered into why her mood was the way it was the

2nd night before we came home? Isn't it weird that that is when you would find

out? You said you noticed her mood so certainly you would have inquired sooner?

Certainly you would have said " Bec, my parent's paid ALL this money to bring us

with them, we can't ruin the trip because of this, so why don't we go to a dr,

hospital, or you at least call home to find out if you should they think you

actually miscarried. " Or at least that's what the old Tony would have cared

enough to do.We have made nothing but continuous effort to disregard her

thoughtless comments since you met her, including her thoughtless display at

's wedding where she humiliated the entire family! Do you think the

family has forgotten her little indiscretion? You asked me the day after that

embarrassing 'little' display if you should break up with her and do you

remember what I said?!!!! I told you that that was your decision to make but

that everyone is entitled to make one mistake! That is some selfish, loveless

mother you've got, isn't it!!!! There was my chance to say dump her and I didn't

do that because I knew it wasn't my place, and how much you loved her. NOW you

will never be asked on another trip and dad and I are your best resource for

doing so. Where will little Becca's parent's take you Tony, except crazy?I've

reached the end of my rope with you and your ingratitude towards us. YOU once

showed us love and affection and gratitude, as well as we reciprocated. I don't

know where you went, or your wonderful personality. Now all I see is anger. Is

it the meds? The therapist? Does Becca go to a therapist? Has she ever gone with

you? Shouldn't you both be in therapy if your unhappy since perhaps it's your

marriage that is causing it, or has she convinced you it's " you Tony, and your

controlling, suffocating parents! " I can't believe you wouldn't insist on her

going, and if she refuses go then there is something wrong with her and your

marriage. Any other wife would have called your parent's anything they wanted in

order to EASE YOUR ANGUISH, but not Becca. Oh, I forgot, we're your peers, you

guys are adults now so you should have the same respect as your

parents.....NOT!!!! We deserve respect because we are your parents, we brought

you into this world, raised you with nothing but love and kindness, and have

done nothing but try to get along with your wife. ARE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN " T

SEE THAT IT IS YOUR WIFE WHO HAS CONVINCED YOU OF THE TERRIBLE PEOPLE WE ARE,

AND THAT WE HAVE WRONGED YOU & HER!! WE'VE WRONGED YOU SO MUCH THEN YOU MAY AS

WELL CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK BECAUSE YOU CERTIANLY AREN'T A MESSINA OR A

BALDOCCHI! PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK!!!! She's in complete control of

you Tony, you don't speak for yourself anymore. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear

it, but your pussy whipped. Oh, what, are you going to call the police tony? Are

you going to tell them that I'm threatening you? Maybe you could lie to them

like you lied to someone else that I said F'ing Bitch, and not just Bitch?

Perhaps your confused...you said F'ing bitch to your mother, the person who gave

birth to you, who devoted her entire life to you without needing a career since

my boys were my life.I can't wait to hear how she twists this little tidbit

around in your brain. She's like those psychiatrists in the 1980's who destroyed

umpteen families by telling their young patients that they had repressed

memories, that under hypnosis the young man or woman would tell them that they

were sexually abused by their parents. It all came out years later that it was

one big scam, but how many families did it destroy in the process? Is that how

easy we are to write off Tony? Is that how we've raised you, to be me, me, me,

my, my, my, just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you know

that's what you sound like? You want to be treated like an adult, then ACT LIKE

ONE!! Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a controlling wife. Both dad

and I knew that after our get together she would twist what happened to being

'oh woe is me, your parent's wrong me again. " " Tony, what are you going to do

about it. I'm your wife, you must defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying,

trash bags of parent! " Why do you think she won't change her email name to

Messina? ARE YOU THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change

their name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca because it's

too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman manipulate but it's time you

find out before you lose your f'ing lose your mind. Trying to make us the

scapegoat for your marital woes won't work anymore since we don't want you in

our life they way your mind is currently working. We don't know or recognize you

anymore as our son Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy

that grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could see you

tony??!!!!! Do you think he'd have a smidgen of respect left in his body for

you? If he can see down from heaven (if there is one,) what do you think he

feels? What does Poppy feel? These are peope you used to want to emulate. The

shame tony and humiliation you must feel for treating the person who once was

your best friend the way you did the other night, and then not owning up to it!

You sure showed me didn't you ton? Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a

macho man!!!Get off your entitlement high horse and realize that your not

entitled to anything, that one has to earn it in life and you have fallen far

short of that in the last 3.5 years! It has been a downward spiral for you tony

and I guess you won't get it until you hit rock bottom and no kid born to you

will change the marriage you have. No one as selfish as you and becca are should

be having children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part. " Oh look,

the baby is just like me...beautfiul, now all my friends will envy me for what a

beautifuil baby I created " . Oh, and another laugh is that you guys take the high

road? Just what high road is that Ton? You weren't able to start fresh realizing

that it would take time to re-establish our relationship with both you and your

wife, instead you let her talk you into writing a letter about how we've wronged

you, and then just slipping into the letter a little blurb about the Saturday

get together so that we wouldn't think that the letter you were insisting on

reading from was all about Saturday, when in reality we ALL know it was, or at

least three of us.What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of

advice your getting? Or is all your advice coming from becca? Perhaps your not

being honest with the therapist, twisting things so that the therapist does

think it's our fault. I know when I've gone I want to tell it exactly like it is

so I know if I'm wrong or not. I want to know so that I can right any wrongs

I've done. But, then again if your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may

believe that you are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's

truth.Believe it or not I still love you, and I always will. But I can't accept

your current behavior, rationale, moods, anger, blame, whining.When your ready

to act like an adult, own up to your wrongs, then call us. We'll always be here

for you, but we are done fawning over your wife trying to make her like us. We

are done feeling guilty for crimes we didn't commit. There was time tony that I

respected you enough to have you give me advice that would end the life of my

father. What happened to that tony? I know he must still be in there, and is

dying to get out, so why don't you? The only decision problems you've ever had

are over minute things like where to eat? When it came to tough decisions you

were competent, and IF anyone has convinced you otherwise then that is sad. You

think I would have had you help me make such a decision with grandpa if I

thought you weren't level headed, rational, mature, loving, and wise?Bye Tony. I

hope it does't take long for you to break out of your cocoon your trapped in and

let the real tony who everyone loved emerge. Just think also who you have

alienated in the past 3.5 years. Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother

is getting worried. If you think we don't rely on family to help us through this

crisis with our son then you are sadly mistaken. We may not tell them every

detail but we lean on them for advice, something you could certainly use to

do!!!!!!!!! Why not listen to the sage wisdom of your grandmother? Why not call

an aunt you can trust? Why is it just your peers you listen to? Could it be that

its because you'll get the answer that will support your cause? Think about it.

I won't be condemned from using family as it was meant to be. If your embarassed

by it, then you better think about your actions that would cause such

embarassment.Love,Mom

_________________________________________________________________

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December 17, 2007

Nada:

> ... Is that how easy we are to write off Tony? Is that how we've

> raised you, to be me, me, me, my, my, my, just like a little namby

> pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you know that's what you sound

> like? You want to be treated like an adult, then ACT LIKE ONE!!

> Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a controlling wife. Both

> dad and I knew that after our get together she would twist what

> happened to being 'oh woe is me, your parent's wrong me again. "

> " Tony, what are you going to do about it. I'm your wife, you must

> defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying, trash bags of

> parent! "

>

> Why do you think she won't change her email name to [deleted]? ARE

> YOU THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change

> their name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca

> because it's too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman

> manipulate but it's time you find out before you lose your f'ing

> lose your mind.

>

> Trying to make us the scapegoat for your marital woes won't work

> anymore since we don't want you in our life they way your mind is

> currently working. We don't know or recognize you anymore as our

> son Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could

> see you tony??!!!!! ...

Jeezie Peezie, tmess9,

That lady sounds like a real basket case. Sorry you've had to

live with that. I'm also sorry to say this, but welcome to the

club, fellow KO (kid-of). It all sounds really weird -- the

'me,me,me,my,my,my' stuff, the 'ARE YOU THAT NAIVE', the 'we don't

want you in our life' -- and the women changing their email name

part is just flat-out unreal. Women commonly use all kinds of

variations on emails -- just look at the posters on this group.

Has she raged at you (cyclically?) like this all your life? Has

there been any kind of recent changes to her meds, or anything else?

Thanks for writing and please hang out here for awhile.

Good luck to you,

December 17, 2007

This opinion is really short, especially compared to the e-

mail " screamer " your mother sent: IGNORE IT. She can write

whomever she wants and say anything she wants -- you are not

obligated to do a thing about it. The vitriol (and the length! my

goodness! What an ego!) will be in stark contrast to the absolute

silence coming from you. She means to get you to react -- to

interact -- to feel bad, etc., etc...... Give her NONE of that.

Give her silence. If you're in her presence -- keep your look and

countenance as blank and detached as possible.

If you try to argue with a BPD point by point, you'll get mired in

argumentative quicksand. They'll never hear your side because they

don't want to -- so, you are free to ignore the rantings. You have

every right to interact with whoever you want -- they don't have to

be involved just because they introduced you to someone. Whatever

deal you struck with your parents' friend was your business. Not

theirs.

Ignore it. She sounds mentally ill. I don't blame you for

detaching from her. Go out and live your life and don't worry about

apologizing or explaining yourself to people who are just out for

themselves. Unfortunately, on this board, our parents are included

in that group.

Doing absolutely nothing will ensure SHE looks like the crazy one.

If you jump in and argue with her, you'll look as bad as her.

And forgive yourself and your wife any mistakes you've made. You're

as human as the rest of us on this earth. You are still allowed to

assess what you're dealing with (in people) and if it enriches or

detracts from your quality of life. You're allowed to detach from

those things that you deem unhealthy for you and your wife.

After reading that voluminous tirade, I see your point! I love how

she signed it " Love, Mom " ! She's trying to play you -- don't take

the bait. Can you name ANY other situation in your life, public or

private, where you'd put up with someone yelling at you like that?

(More than once, anyway?)

She's definitely emotional dynamite -- I'd quit the arguing with

them and just start politely detaching. Refuse to get into any

discussion -- politely deflect attempts, either by silence or

oblique, non-engaging answers. Always polite -- detached and never

engaging.

-Kyla

December 17, 2007

Holy Cow I couldn't even read it all. She's nuts. What's your dad

say? If you were to talk to him w/o her around what's he say? Does he

feel the same way? Had he seen the email before it went to you?

Really I would ignore her and talk to your dad alone. That's what I

finally did. I figured he'd just defend my nada, but after my sister

also called my dad to basically back me up and tell my dad about

stuff that nada had done to my sister, he finally understood and

started backing me up. I don't even know if I could have any

relationship w/her after all that.

>

> My parents and I have been arguing since summer now, and nothing we

> do helps things. I question whether my mom has a BPD, or some

other

> mental illness. I ackknowledge I have probably made mistakes, as

has

> my wife, but i am just wondering what people's opinion is on the

> email i recieved after a fight i had with her. I am at a loss and

> any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry this

email

> is really long....

>

> You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your job

> on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are. If you truly wanted to

> distance yourself from us and be your own man, you certainly

wouldn't

> be calling our friends to help you out. Sure, get your discount

rate

> but ignore your parent's who were the one's who enabled you to get

> it!!. It'd be like us calling one of your friends to do us a favor

> now, how would that feel Tony? I'm sure you wouldn't be at all

> pleased with that scenario and that you'd actually be angry that

your

> friend even obliged you. However, our friend Homer is too nice of a

> guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

> CHILD!!!!

>

> Why not tell Homer about what you think of your mom and dad? Why

not

> tell Homer how you wouldn't let us in the apartment, how you

> threatened to call the police on your mom and then called your

mother

> a f'ing bitch! Why not tell him that it's been 5 days since and you

> still have no remorse?

>

> Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's

do

> and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your

> still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

>

> What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

> matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in anguish

> because she can't be satisfied.

>

> What a cop out your phony complaint list was, and I knew the minute

> you got to the part about how we didn't " include Becca in our

> conversation " , what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd

grade

> mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

> general conversation? How old is she? When she is with your friends

> does she need to have everyone doting on her (well that's probably

a

> silly question now, isn't it?)

>

> There is no end to you and your wife's hypocrisy. You want to do

your

> apartment and be free and clear of us then you find someone else to

> do it other then our friends. I think Homer will enjoy hearing what

> you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and

treated

> us like the morning trash. Homer is very loyal so I know this will

be

> a conflict for him if I decide to tell him.

>

> You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too? No,

> we didn't do anything for you in your life did we? Who gave you the

> fling flying loan? Who gave you the wedding loan? Who put you

through

> an $80,000 college and paid for all your expenses? Who held a

> rehearsal dinner at her soon to be daughter in laws request? Who

paid

> over $2,000 dollars for open bar and appetizers when we didn't want

> an open bar! Who gave you a big check when you got married? Who

> dropped people form the wedding list to make you happy so you could

> some bartenders from Rock Bottom? Who didn't get to pick out the

> invitations to the rehearsal dinner we sponsored because your wife

> did it on the sly?!!!! What issues were made of that Tony? Wasn't

it

> us once again who gave in to keep the peace?

> Who gave you a car to use through high school and part of college?

> Who paid for you to play soccer for how many years AFTER college,

> with no recognition from you? Who put's nothing but sincere thought

> into my gift giving for both you and your wife despite our

> differences, Huh, Ton, who is it? Who invited you guys to go to

> Hawaii with us at a cost of $6,000? Do you think we did that

because

> we wanted to have nothing to do with your wife?!!! We did it to

help

> us bond more, however we couldn't have dreamed that she would

behave

> the way she did and that the two of you would ignore our wish to

> spend most of our time together. And yes, you are accountable

because

> YOU heard it first hand from me what we wanted, but you continued

to

> chip away at what I requested because your wife put you up to it or

> perhaps because you knew Becca was incapable of spending time with

us

> pleasantly. And, if it was you who didn't want to spend time with

us

> then you should have been the way you used to be, honest, and told

us

> so. Perhaps we wouldn't have had you come and we would have saved a

> ton of money. As far as validated goes, you've got to be kidding?

> Let's see if I remember right. You initially told me Becca was one

> day late, you weren't trying for a baby, she had no reason to

believe

> she was pregnant yet she thought she saw something when she got her

> heavier then usual period. Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or at

> least you told me she did.) Changing the pill would account for a

> different flow. IF she thought she was pregnant and miscarried it

> would have been easy enough to find out with a simple 3 minute home

> pregnancy kit right then. Since even if you miscarry you still have

> the elevated levels of hormone in your blood that would indicate

you

> were indeed pregnant. Let's see that means she could have put her

> worries to rest the 1st day of the trip, and she is validated for

her

> mood for the entire trip to Hawaii? Let me ask you something, how

was

> her mood alone with you? She certainly seemed to be having a good

> time then!!!!! How could you dismiss her actions with us so easily

> and then turn them around to blame us? No, we're not understanding

> because she didn't want to be pregnant, and you guys weren't

trying.

> I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly

miscarrying

> but when there were so many avenues that could have been taken to

> alleviate her worries there is no excuse! If you don't like to hear

> this too bad. Why don't you call her ob/gyn and ask the nurse if

she

> would have seen tissue at two weeks pregnant as she claims? What

ever

> she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for

her

> behavior on the trip. But there is no excusing her behavior because

> there were hospitals, drs., pregnancy tests, nurses in her ob

office,

> or even your idiot mom that she could have contacted or talked to.

> But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to me.

> It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face that

the

> sooner you can manage your wife. Who wouldn't do this in order to

> ease their mind and have a good time in a place like Hawaii? Do you

> think you'll ever go there again? You won't be able to afford it,

> face it.

>

> If it weren't for us you would have never gone there, and she was

> determined to be alone with you because SHE DOESN'T " T LIKE US, not

> the other way around. Dad buys her a lei and she claims she's

> allergic to flowers!!! I know you have bought her flowers many

times

> and I've never heard that excuse before. Every time she comes to

our

> house now she says she has allergies to my cats. Is this a recent

> phenomena? Maybe one that will build the excuse for her not being

> able to come over here eventually? Wake up! This little blip of a

> vacation was the dream trip that any other child or person for that

> matter would have given their left arm for, and yet who ends up

> trying to make amends but us?!!!! You've got to be kidding right?

> We're supposed to be understanding of a miscarriage she didn't have

> and didn't find out until she got home from the trip,

coincidentally?

> Even with all the avenues she had? And why didn't you get her to

act

> sooner to find out it wasn't a pregnancy so that she could enjoy

> herself? Is it perhaps because she didn't tell you this excuse

until

> she was cornered into why her mood was the way it was the 2nd night

> before we came home? Isn't it weird that that is when you would

find

> out? You said you noticed her mood so certainly you would have

> inquired sooner? Certainly you would have said " Bec, my parent's

> paid ALL this money to bring us with them, we can't ruin the trip

> because of this, so why don't we go to a dr, hospital, or you at

> least call home to find out if you should they think you actually

> miscarried. " Or at least that's what the old Tony would have cared

> enough to do.

>

> We have made nothing but continuous effort to disregard her

> thoughtless comments since you met her, including her thoughtless

> display at 's wedding where she humiliated the entire

family!

> Do you think the family has forgotten her little indiscretion? You

> asked me the day after that embarrassing 'little' display if you

> should break up with her and do you remember what I said?!!!! I

told

> you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is

entitled

> to make one mistake! That is some selfish, loveless mother you've

> got, isn't it!!!! There was my chance to say dump her and I didn't

do

> that because I knew it wasn't my place, and how much you loved her.

> NOW you will never be asked on another trip and dad and I are your

> best resource for doing so. Where will little Becca's parent's take

> you Tony, except crazy?

>

> I've reached the end of my rope with you and your ingratitude

towards

> us. YOU once showed us love and affection and gratitude, as well as

> we reciprocated. I don't know where you went, or your wonderful

> personality. Now all I see is anger. Is it the meds? The therapist?

> Does Becca go to a therapist? Has she ever gone with you? Shouldn't

> you both be in therapy if your unhappy since perhaps it's your

> marriage that is causing it, or has she convinced you it's " you

Tony,

> and your controlling, suffocating parents! " I can't believe you

> wouldn't insist on her going, and if she refuses go then there is

> something wrong with her and your marriage. Any other wife would

> have called your parent's anything they wanted in order to EASE

YOUR

> ANGUISH, but not Becca. Oh, I forgot, we're your peers, you guys

are

> adults now so you should have the same respect as your

> parents.....NOT!!!! We deserve respect because we are your

parents,

> we brought you into this world, raised you with nothing but love

and

> kindness, and have done nothing but try to get along with your

wife.

> ARE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN " T SEE THAT IT IS YOUR WIFE WHO HAS

> CONVINCED YOU OF THE TERRIBLE PEOPLE WE ARE, AND THAT WE HAVE

WRONGED

> YOU & HER!! WE'VE WRONGED YOU SO MUCH THEN YOU MAY AS WELL CHANGE

> YOUR NAME TO SARWARK BECAUSE YOU CERTIANLY AREN'T A MESSINA OR A

> BALDOCCHI! PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK!!!!

>

> She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for yourself

> anymore. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear it, but your pussy whipped.

> Oh, what, are you going to call the police tony? Are you going to

> tell them that I'm threatening you? Maybe you could lie to them

like

> you lied to someone else that I said F'ing Bitch, and not just

Bitch?

> Perhaps your confused...you said F'ing bitch to your mother, the

> person who gave birth to you, who devoted her entire life to you

> without needing a career since my boys were my life.

>

> I can't wait to hear how she twists this little tidbit around in

your

> brain. She's like those psychiatrists in the 1980's who destroyed

> umpteen families by telling their young patients that they had

> repressed memories, that under hypnosis the young man or woman

would

> tell them that they were sexually abused by their parents. It all

> came out years later that it was one big scam, but how many

families

> did it destroy in the process? Is that how easy we are to write off

> Tony? Is that how we've raised you, to be me, me, me, my, my, my,

> just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you

know

> that's what you sound like? You want to be treated like an adult,

> then ACT LIKE ONE!! Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a

> controlling wife. Both dad and I knew that after our get together

she

> would twist what happened to being 'oh woe is me, your parent's

wrong

> me again. " " Tony, what are you going to do about it. I'm your wife,

> you must defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying, trash bags

of

> parent! "

>

> Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE

YOU

> THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change

their

> name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca because

> it's too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman manipulate

> but it's time you find out before you lose your f'ing lose your

mind.

>

> Trying to make us the scapegoat for your marital woes won't work

> anymore since we don't want you in our life they way your mind is

> currently working. We don't know or recognize you anymore as our

son

> Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could

see

> you tony??!!!!! Do you think he'd have a smidgen of respect left in

> his body for you? If he can see down from heaven (if there is one,)

> what do you think he feels? What does Poppy feel? These are peope

you

> used to want to emulate. The shame tony and humiliation you must

feel

> for treating the person who once was your best friend the way you

did

> the other night, and then not owning up to it! You sure showed me

> didn't you ton? Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho

man!!!

>

> Get off your entitlement high horse and realize that your not

> entitled to anything, that one has to earn it in life and you have

> fallen far short of that in the last 3.5 years! It has been a

> downward spiral for you tony and I guess you won't get it until you

> hit rock bottom and no kid born to you will change the marriage you

> have. No one as selfish as you and becca are should be having

> children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part. " Oh

> look, the baby is just like me...beautfiul, now all my friends will

> envy me for what a beautifuil baby I created " . Oh, and another

laugh

> is that you guys take the high road? Just what high road is that

Ton?

> You weren't able to start fresh realizing that it would take time

to

> re-establish our relationship with both you and your wife, instead

> you let her talk you into writing a letter about how we've wronged

> you, and then just slipping into the letter a little blurb about

the

> Saturday get together so that we wouldn't think that the letter you

> were insisting on reading from was all about Saturday, when in

> reality we ALL know it was, or at least three of us.

>

> What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of

advice

> your getting? Or is all your advice coming from becca? Perhaps your

> not being honest with the therapist, twisting things so that the

> therapist does think it's our fault. I know when I've gone I want

to

> tell it exactly like it is so I know if I'm wrong or not. I want to

> know so that I can right any wrongs I've done. But, then again if

> your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that you

> are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

>

> Believe it or not I still love you, and I always will. But I can't

> accept your current behavior, rationale, moods, anger, blame,

whining.

>

> When your ready to act like an adult, own up to your wrongs, then

> call us. We'll always be here for you, but we are done fawning over

> your wife trying to make her like us. We are done feeling guilty

for

> crimes we didn't commit.

>

> There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give me

> advice that would end the life of my father. What happened to that

> tony? I know he must still be in there, and is dying to get out, so

> why don't you?

>

> The only decision problems you've ever had are over minute things

> like where to eat? When it came to tough decisions you were

> competent, and IF anyone has convinced you otherwise then that is

> sad. You think I would have had you help me make such a decision

with

> grandpa if I thought you weren't level headed, rational, mature,

> loving, and wise?

>

> Bye Tony. I hope it does't take long for you to break out of your

> cocoon your trapped in and let the real tony who everyone loved

> emerge. Just think also who you have alienated in the past 3.5

years.

> Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting worried.

If

> you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis

with

> our son then you are sadly mistaken. We may not tell them every

> detail but we lean on them for advice, something you could

certainly

> use to do!!!!!!!!! Why not listen to the sage wisdom of your

> grandmother? Why not call an aunt you can trust? Why is it just

your

> peers you listen to? Could it be that its because you'll get the

> answer that will support your cause? Think about it. I won't be

> condemned from using family as it was meant to be. If your

embarassed

> by it, then you better think about your actions that would cause

such

> embarassment.

>

> Love,

>

> Mom

>

December 17, 2007

My mother has consistently been jealous and angry about any person

or situation that comes before her in my life. Never mind that I'm

married, have had a career, ministry, and other things going on. It

is all about her and her situation, it would seem. Jealousy is huge

in her situation, and quite possibly in your mother's as well.

Sounds almost like she is expressing anger at their not being first

in your life. Hey, you're married. They aren't supposed to be numero

uno.

Kyla's advice sounds pretty wise.

>

> My parents and I have been arguing since summer now, and nothing

we

> do helps things. I question whether my mom has a BPD, or some

other

> mental illness. I ackknowledge I have probably made mistakes, as

has

> my wife, but i am just wondering what people's opinion is on the

> email i recieved after a fight i had with her. I am at a loss and

> any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry this

email

> is really long....

>

> You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your

job

> on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are. If you truly wanted

to

> distance yourself from us and be your own man, you certainly

wouldn't

> be calling our friends to help you out. Sure, get your discount

rate

> but ignore your parent's who were the one's who enabled you to get

> it!!. It'd be like us calling one of your friends to do us a favor

> now, how would that feel Tony? I'm sure you wouldn't be at all

> pleased with that scenario and that you'd actually be angry that

your

> friend even obliged you. However, our friend Homer is too nice of

a

> guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

> CHILD!!!!

>

> Why not tell Homer about what you think of your mom and dad? Why

not

> tell Homer how you wouldn't let us in the apartment, how you

> threatened to call the police on your mom and then called your

mother

> a f'ing bitch! Why not tell him that it's been 5 days since and

you

> still have no remorse?

>

> Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's

do

> and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your

> still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

>

> What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

> matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in anguish

> because she can't be satisfied.

>

> What a cop out your phony complaint list was, and I knew the

minute

> you got to the part about how we didn't " include Becca in our

> conversation " , what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd

grade

> mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

> general conversation? How old is she? When she is with your

friends

> does she need to have everyone doting on her (well that's probably

a

> silly question now, isn't it?)

>

> There is no end to you and your wife's hypocrisy. You want to do

your

> apartment and be free and clear of us then you find someone else

to

> do it other then our friends. I think Homer will enjoy hearing

what

> you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and

treated

> us like the morning trash. Homer is very loyal so I know this will

be

> a conflict for him if I decide to tell him.

>

> You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too?

No,

> we didn't do anything for you in your life did we? Who gave you

the

> fling flying loan? Who gave you the wedding loan? Who put you

through

> an $80,000 college and paid for all your expenses? Who held a

> rehearsal dinner at her soon to be daughter in laws request? Who

paid

> over $2,000 dollars for open bar and appetizers when we didn't

want

> an open bar! Who gave you a big check when you got married? Who

> dropped people form the wedding list to make you happy so you

could

> some bartenders from Rock Bottom? Who didn't get to pick out the

> invitations to the rehearsal dinner we sponsored because your wife

> did it on the sly?!!!! What issues were made of that Tony? Wasn't

it

> us once again who gave in to keep the peace?

> Who gave you a car to use through high school and part of college?

> Who paid for you to play soccer for how many years AFTER college,

> with no recognition from you? Who put's nothing but sincere

thought

> into my gift giving for both you and your wife despite our

> differences, Huh, Ton, who is it? Who invited you guys to go to

> Hawaii with us at a cost of $6,000? Do you think we did that

because

> we wanted to have nothing to do with your wife?!!! We did it to

help

> us bond more, however we couldn't have dreamed that she would

behave

> the way she did and that the two of you would ignore our wish to

> spend most of our time together. And yes, you are accountable

because

> YOU heard it first hand from me what we wanted, but you continued

to

> chip away at what I requested because your wife put you up to it

or

> perhaps because you knew Becca was incapable of spending time with

us

> pleasantly. And, if it was you who didn't want to spend time with

us

> then you should have been the way you used to be, honest, and told

us

> so. Perhaps we wouldn't have had you come and we would have saved

a

> ton of money. As far as validated goes, you've got to be kidding?

> Let's see if I remember right. You initially told me Becca was one

> day late, you weren't trying for a baby, she had no reason to

believe

> she was pregnant yet she thought she saw something when she got

her

> heavier then usual period. Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or

at

> least you told me she did.) Changing the pill would account for a

> different flow. IF she thought she was pregnant and miscarried it

> would have been easy enough to find out with a simple 3 minute

home

> pregnancy kit right then. Since even if you miscarry you still

have

> the elevated levels of hormone in your blood that would indicate

you

> were indeed pregnant. Let's see that means she could have put her

> worries to rest the 1st day of the trip, and she is validated for

her

> mood for the entire trip to Hawaii? Let me ask you something, how

was

> her mood alone with you? She certainly seemed to be having a good

> time then!!!!! How could you dismiss her actions with us so easily

> and then turn them around to blame us? No, we're not understanding

> because she didn't want to be pregnant, and you guys weren't

trying.

> I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly

miscarrying

> but when there were so many avenues that could have been taken to

> alleviate her worries there is no excuse! If you don't like to

hear

> this too bad. Why don't you call her ob/gyn and ask the nurse if

she

> would have seen tissue at two weeks pregnant as she claims? What

ever

> she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for

her

> behavior on the trip. But there is no excusing her behavior

because

> there were hospitals, drs., pregnancy tests, nurses in her ob

office,

> or even your idiot mom that she could have contacted or talked to.

> But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to

me.

> It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face that

the

> sooner you can manage your wife. Who wouldn't do this in order to

> ease their mind and have a good time in a place like Hawaii? Do

you

> think you'll ever go there again? You won't be able to afford it,

> face it.

>

> If it weren't for us you would have never gone there, and she was

> determined to be alone with you because SHE DOESN'T " T LIKE US, not

> the other way around. Dad buys her a lei and she claims she's

> allergic to flowers!!! I know you have bought her flowers many

times

> and I've never heard that excuse before. Every time she comes to

our

> house now she says she has allergies to my cats. Is this a recent

> phenomena? Maybe one that will build the excuse for her not being

> able to come over here eventually? Wake up! This little blip of a

> vacation was the dream trip that any other child or person for

that

> matter would have given their left arm for, and yet who ends up

> trying to make amends but us?!!!! You've got to be kidding right?

> We're supposed to be understanding of a miscarriage she didn't

have

> and didn't find out until she got home from the trip,

coincidentally?

> Even with all the avenues she had? And why didn't you get her to

act

> sooner to find out it wasn't a pregnancy so that she could enjoy

> herself? Is it perhaps because she didn't tell you this excuse

until

> she was cornered into why her mood was the way it was the 2nd

night

> before we came home? Isn't it weird that that is when you would

find

> out? You said you noticed her mood so certainly you would have

> inquired sooner? Certainly you would have said " Bec, my parent's

> paid ALL this money to bring us with them, we can't ruin the trip

> because of this, so why don't we go to a dr, hospital, or you at

> least call home to find out if you should they think you actually

> miscarried. " Or at least that's what the old Tony would have cared

> enough to do.

>

> We have made nothing but continuous effort to disregard her

> thoughtless comments since you met her, including her thoughtless

> display at 's wedding where she humiliated the entire

family!

> Do you think the family has forgotten her little indiscretion? You

> asked me the day after that embarrassing 'little' display if you

> should break up with her and do you remember what I said?!!!! I

told

> you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is

entitled

> to make one mistake! That is some selfish, loveless mother you've

> got, isn't it!!!! There was my chance to say dump her and I didn't

do

> that because I knew it wasn't my place, and how much you loved

her.

> NOW you will never be asked on another trip and dad and I are your

> best resource for doing so. Where will little Becca's parent's

take

> you Tony, except crazy?

>

> I've reached the end of my rope with you and your ingratitude

towards

> us. YOU once showed us love and affection and gratitude, as well

as

> we reciprocated. I don't know where you went, or your wonderful

> personality. Now all I see is anger. Is it the meds? The

therapist?

> Does Becca go to a therapist? Has she ever gone with you?

Shouldn't

> you both be in therapy if your unhappy since perhaps it's your

> marriage that is causing it, or has she convinced you it's " you

Tony,

> and your controlling, suffocating parents! " I can't believe you

> wouldn't insist on her going, and if she refuses go then there is

> something wrong with her and your marriage. Any other wife would

> have called your parent's anything they wanted in order to EASE

YOUR

> ANGUISH, but not Becca. Oh, I forgot, we're your peers, you guys

are

> adults now so you should have the same respect as your

> parents.....NOT!!!! We deserve respect because we are your

parents,

> we brought you into this world, raised you with nothing but love

and

> kindness, and have done nothing but try to get along with your

wife.

> ARE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN " T SEE THAT IT IS YOUR WIFE WHO HAS

> CONVINCED YOU OF THE TERRIBLE PEOPLE WE ARE, AND THAT WE HAVE

WRONGED

> YOU & HER!! WE'VE WRONGED YOU SO MUCH THEN YOU MAY AS WELL CHANGE

> YOUR NAME TO SARWARK BECAUSE YOU CERTIANLY AREN'T A MESSINA OR A

> BALDOCCHI! PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK!!!!

>

> She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for

yourself

> anymore. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear it, but your pussy whipped.

> Oh, what, are you going to call the police tony? Are you going to

> tell them that I'm threatening you? Maybe you could lie to them

like

> you lied to someone else that I said F'ing Bitch, and not just

Bitch?

> Perhaps your confused...you said F'ing bitch to your mother, the

> person who gave birth to you, who devoted her entire life to you

> without needing a career since my boys were my life.

>

> I can't wait to hear how she twists this little tidbit around in

your

> brain. She's like those psychiatrists in the 1980's who destroyed

> umpteen families by telling their young patients that they had

> repressed memories, that under hypnosis the young man or woman

would

> tell them that they were sexually abused by their parents. It all

> came out years later that it was one big scam, but how many

families

> did it destroy in the process? Is that how easy we are to write

off

> Tony? Is that how we've raised you, to be me, me, me, my, my, my,

> just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you

know

> that's what you sound like? You want to be treated like an adult,

> then ACT LIKE ONE!! Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a

> controlling wife. Both dad and I knew that after our get together

she

> would twist what happened to being 'oh woe is me, your parent's

wrong

> me again. " " Tony, what are you going to do about it. I'm your

wife,

> you must defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying, trash bags

of

> parent! "

>

> Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE

YOU

> THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change

their

> name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca because

> it's too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman

manipulate

> but it's time you find out before you lose your f'ing lose your

mind.

>

> Trying to make us the scapegoat for your marital woes won't work

> anymore since we don't want you in our life they way your mind is

> currently working. We don't know or recognize you anymore as our

son

> Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could

see

> you tony??!!!!! Do you think he'd have a smidgen of respect left

in

> his body for you? If he can see down from heaven (if there is

one,)

> what do you think he feels? What does Poppy feel? These are peope

you

> used to want to emulate. The shame tony and humiliation you must

feel

> for treating the person who once was your best friend the way you

did

> the other night, and then not owning up to it! You sure showed me

> didn't you ton? Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho

man!!!

>

> Get off your entitlement high horse and realize that your not

> entitled to anything, that one has to earn it in life and you have

> fallen far short of that in the last 3.5 years! It has been a

> downward spiral for you tony and I guess you won't get it until

you

> hit rock bottom and no kid born to you will change the marriage

you

> have. No one as selfish as you and becca are should be having

> children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part. " Oh

> look, the baby is just like me...beautfiul, now all my friends

will

> envy me for what a beautifuil baby I created " . Oh, and another

laugh

> is that you guys take the high road? Just what high road is that

Ton?

> You weren't able to start fresh realizing that it would take time

to

> re-establish our relationship with both you and your wife, instead

> you let her talk you into writing a letter about how we've wronged

> you, and then just slipping into the letter a little blurb about

the

> Saturday get together so that we wouldn't think that the letter

you

> were insisting on reading from was all about Saturday, when in

> reality we ALL know it was, or at least three of us.

>

> What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of

advice

> your getting? Or is all your advice coming from becca? Perhaps

your

> not being honest with the therapist, twisting things so that the

> therapist does think it's our fault. I know when I've gone I want

to

> tell it exactly like it is so I know if I'm wrong or not. I want

to

> know so that I can right any wrongs I've done. But, then again if

> your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that you

> are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

>

> Believe it or not I still love you, and I always will. But I can't

> accept your current behavior, rationale, moods, anger, blame,

whining.

>

> When your ready to act like an adult, own up to your wrongs, then

> call us. We'll always be here for you, but we are done fawning

over

> your wife trying to make her like us. We are done feeling guilty

for

> crimes we didn't commit.

>

> There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give

me

> advice that would end the life of my father. What happened to that

> tony? I know he must still be in there, and is dying to get out,

so

> why don't you?

>

> The only decision problems you've ever had are over minute things

> like where to eat? When it came to tough decisions you were

> competent, and IF anyone has convinced you otherwise then that is

> sad. You think I would have had you help me make such a decision

with

> grandpa if I thought you weren't level headed, rational, mature,

> loving, and wise?

>

> Bye Tony. I hope it does't take long for you to break out of your

> cocoon your trapped in and let the real tony who everyone loved

> emerge. Just think also who you have alienated in the past 3.5

years.

> Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting worried.

If

> you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis

with

> our son then you are sadly mistaken. We may not tell them every

> detail but we lean on them for advice, something you could

certainly

> use to do!!!!!!!!! Why not listen to the sage wisdom of your

> grandmother? Why not call an aunt you can trust? Why is it just

your

> peers you listen to? Could it be that its because you'll get the

> answer that will support your cause? Think about it. I won't be

> condemned from using family as it was meant to be. If your

embarassed

> by it, then you better think about your actions that would cause

such

> embarassment.

>

> Love,

>

> Mom

>

December 17, 2007

“Why not tell Homer about what you think of your mom and dad?”

Holy cow, that’d be good! Tickets, anyone?

I agree with most everyone else, she’s nuts. Makes me glad I’m NC with my

little treasure.

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of tmess9

Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2007 6:26 AM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Please Help me by giving your opinion of an

Email recieved from my mom.

My parents and I have been arguing since summer now, and nothing we

do helps things. I question whether my mom has a BPD, or some other

mental illness. I ackknowledge I have probably made mistakes, as has

my wife, but i am just wondering what people's opinion is on the

email i recieved after a fight i had with her. I am at a loss and

any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry this email

is really long....

You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your job

on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are. If you truly wanted to

distance yourself from us and be your own man, you certainly wouldn't

be calling our friends to help you out. Sure, get your discount rate

but ignore your parent's who were the one's who enabled you to get

it!!. It'd be like us calling one of your friends to do us a favor

now, how would that feel Tony? I'm sure you wouldn't be at all

pleased with that scenario and that you'd actually be angry that your

friend even obliged you. However, our friend Homer is too nice of a

guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

CHILD!!!!

Why not tell Homer about what you think of your mom and dad? Why not

tell Homer how you wouldn't let us in the apartment, how you

threatened to call the police on your mom and then called your mother

a f'ing bitch! Why not tell him that it's been 5 days since and you

still have no remorse?

Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's do

and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your

still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in anguish

because she can't be satisfied.

What a cop out your phony complaint list was, and I knew the minute

you got to the part about how we didn't " include Becca in our

conversation " -, what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd grade

mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

general conversation? How old is she? When she is with your friends

does she need to have everyone doting on her (well that's probably a

silly question now, isn't it?)

There is no end to you and your wife's hypocrisy. You want to do your

apartment and be free and clear of us then you find someone else to

do it other then our friends. I think Homer will enjoy hearing what

you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and treated

us like the morning trash. Homer is very loyal so I know this will be

a conflict for him if I decide to tell him.

You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too? No,

we didn't do anything for you in your life did we? Who gave you the

fling flying loan? Who gave you the wedding loan? Who put you through

an $80,000 college and paid for all your expenses? Who held a

rehearsal dinner at her soon to be daughter in laws request? Who paid

over $2,000 dollars for open bar and appetizers when we didn't want

an open bar! Who gave you a big check when you got married? Who

dropped people form the wedding list to make you happy so you could

some bartenders from Rock Bottom? Who didn't get to pick out the

invitations to the rehearsal dinner we sponsored because your wife

did it on the sly?!!!! What issues were made of that Tony? Wasn't it

us once again who gave in to keep the peace?

Who gave you a car to use through high school and part of college?

Who paid for you to play soccer for how many years AFTER college,

with no recognition from you? Who put's nothing but sincere thought

into my gift giving for both you and your wife despite our

differences, Huh, Ton, who is it? Who invited you guys to go to

Hawaii with us at a cost of $6,000? Do you think we did that because

we wanted to have nothing to do with your wife?!!! We did it to help

us bond more, however we couldn't have dreamed that she would behave

the way she did and that the two of you would ignore our wish to

spend most of our time together. And yes, you are accountable because

YOU heard it first hand from me what we wanted, but you continued to

chip away at what I requested because your wife put you up to it or

perhaps because you knew Becca was incapable of spending time with us

pleasantly. And, if it was you who didn't want to spend time with us

then you should have been the way you used to be, honest, and told us

so. Perhaps we wouldn't have had you come and we would have saved a

ton of money. As far as validated goes, you've got to be kidding?

Let's see if I remember right. You initially told me Becca was one

day late, you weren't trying for a baby, she had no reason to believe

she was pregnant yet she thought she saw something when she got her

heavier then usual period. Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or at

least you told me she did.) Changing the pill would account for a

different flow. IF she thought she was pregnant and miscarried it

would have been easy enough to find out with a simple 3 minute home

pregnancy kit right then. Since even if you miscarry you still have

the elevated levels of hormone in your blood that would indicate you

were indeed pregnant. Let's see that means she could have put her

worries to rest the 1st day of the trip, and she is validated for her

mood for the entire trip to Hawaii? Let me ask you something, how was

her mood alone with you? She certainly seemed to be having a good

time then!!!!! How could you dismiss her actions with us so easily

and then turn them around to blame us? No, we're not understanding

because she didn't want to be pregnant, and you guys weren't trying.

I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly miscarrying

but when there were so many avenues that could have been taken to

alleviate her worries there is no excuse! If you don't like to hear

this too bad. Why don't you call her ob/gyn and ask the nurse if she

would have seen tissue at two weeks pregnant as she claims? What ever

she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for her

behavior on the trip. But there is no excusing her behavior because

there were hospitals, drs., pregnancy tests, nurses in her ob office,

or even your idiot mom that she could have contacted or talked to.

But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to me.

It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face that the

sooner you can manage your wife. Who wouldn't do this in order to

ease their mind and have a good time in a place like Hawaii? Do you

think you'll ever go there again? You won't be able to afford it,

face it.

If it weren't for us you would have never gone there, and she was

determined to be alone with you because SHE DOESN'T " T LIKE US, not

the other way around. Dad buys her a lei and she claims she's

allergic to flowers!!! I know you have bought her flowers many times

and I've never heard that excuse before. Every time she comes to our

house now she says she has allergies to my cats. Is this a recent

phenomena? Maybe one that will build the excuse for her not being

able to come over here eventually? Wake up! This little blip of a

vacation was the dream trip that any other child or person for that

matter would have given their left arm for, and yet who ends up

trying to make amends but us?!!!! You've got to be kidding right?

We're supposed to be understanding of a miscarriage she didn't have

and didn't find out until she got home from the trip, coincidentally?

Even with all the avenues she had? And why didn't you get her to act

sooner to find out it wasn't a pregnancy so that she could enjoy

herself? Is it perhaps because she didn't tell you this excuse until

she was cornered into why her mood was the way it was the 2nd night

before we came home? Isn't it weird that that is when you would find

out? You said you noticed her mood so certainly you would have

inquired sooner? Certainly you would have said " Bec, my parent's

paid ALL this money to bring us with them, we can't ruin the trip

because of this, so why don't we go to a dr, hospital, or you at

least call home to find out if you should they think you actually

miscarried. " Or at least that's what the old Tony would have cared

enough to do.

We have made nothing but continuous effort to disregard her

thoughtless comments since you met her, including her thoughtless

display at 's wedding where she humiliated the entire family!

Do you think the family has forgotten her little indiscretion? You

asked me the day after that embarrassing 'little' display if you

should break up with her and do you remember what I said?!!!! I told

you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is entitled

to make one mistake! That is some selfish, loveless mother you've

got, isn't it!!!! There was my chance to say dump her and I didn't do

that because I knew it wasn't my place, and how much you loved her.

NOW you will never be asked on another trip and dad and I are your

best resource for doing so. Where will little Becca's parent's take

you Tony, except crazy?

I've reached the end of my rope with you and your ingratitude towards

us. YOU once showed us love and affection and gratitude, as well as

we reciprocated. I don't know where you went, or your wonderful

personality. Now all I see is anger. Is it the meds? The therapist?

Does Becca go to a therapist? Has she ever gone with you? Shouldn't

you both be in therapy if your unhappy since perhaps it's your

marriage that is causing it, or has she convinced you it's " you Tony,

and your controlling, suffocating parents! " I can't believe you

wouldn't insist on her going, and if she refuses go then there is

something wrong with her and your marriage. Any other wife would

have called your parent's anything they wanted in order to EASE YOUR

ANGUISH, but not Becca. Oh, I forgot, we're your peers, you guys are

adults now so you should have the same respect as your

parents.....-NOT!!!! We deserve respect because we are your parents,

we brought you into this world, raised you with nothing but love and

kindness, and have done nothing but try to get along with your wife.

ARE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN " T SEE THAT IT IS YOUR WIFE WHO HAS

CONVINCED YOU OF THE TERRIBLE PEOPLE WE ARE, AND THAT WE HAVE WRONGED

YOU & HER!! WE'VE WRONGED YOU SO MUCH THEN YOU MAY AS WELL CHANGE

YOUR NAME TO SARWARK BECAUSE YOU CERTIANLY AREN'T A MESSINA OR A

BALDOCCHI! PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK!!!!

She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for yourself

anymore. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear it, but your pussy whipped.

Oh, what, are you going to call the police tony? Are you going to

tell them that I'm threatening you? Maybe you could lie to them like

you lied to someone else that I said F'ing Bitch, and not just Bitch?

Perhaps your confused...you said F'ing bitch to your mother, the

person who gave birth to you, who devoted her entire life to you

without needing a career since my boys were my life.

I can't wait to hear how she twists this little tidbit around in your

brain. She's like those psychiatrists in the 1980's who destroyed

umpteen families by telling their young patients that they had

repressed memories, that under hypnosis the young man or woman would

tell them that they were sexually abused by their parents. It all

came out years later that it was one big scam, but how many families

did it destroy in the process? Is that how easy we are to write off

Tony? Is that how we've raised you, to be me, me, me, my, my, my,

just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you know

that's what you sound like? You want to be treated like an adult,

then ACT LIKE ONE!! Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a

controlling wife. Both dad and I knew that after our get together she

would twist what happened to being 'oh woe is me, your parent's wrong

me again. " " Tony, what are you going to do about it. I'm your wife,

you must defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying, trash bags of

parent! "

Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE YOU

THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change their

name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca because

it's too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman manipulate

but it's time you find out before you lose your f'ing lose your mind.

Trying to make us the scapegoat for your marital woes won't work

anymore since we don't want you in our life they way your mind is

currently working. We don't know or recognize you anymore as our son

Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could see

you tony??!!!!! Do you think he'd have a smidgen of respect left in

his body for you? If he can see down from heaven (if there is one,)

what do you think he feels? What does Poppy feel? These are peope you

used to want to emulate. The shame tony and humiliation you must feel

for treating the person who once was your best friend the way you did

the other night, and then not owning up to it! You sure showed me

didn't you ton? Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho man!!!

Get off your entitlement high horse and realize that your not

entitled to anything, that one has to earn it in life and you have

fallen far short of that in the last 3.5 years! It has been a

downward spiral for you tony and I guess you won't get it until you

hit rock bottom and no kid born to you will change the marriage you

have. No one as selfish as you and becca are should be having

children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part. " Oh

look, the baby is just like me...beautfiul, now all my friends will

envy me for what a beautifuil baby I created " . Oh, and another laugh

is that you guys take the high road? Just what high road is that Ton?

You weren't able to start fresh realizing that it would take time to

re-establish our relationship with both you and your wife, instead

you let her talk you into writing a letter about how we've wronged

you, and then just slipping into the letter a little blurb about the

Saturday get together so that we wouldn't think that the letter you

were insisting on reading from was all about Saturday, when in

reality we ALL know it was, or at least three of us.

What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of advice

your getting? Or is all your advice coming from becca? Perhaps your

not being honest with the therapist, twisting things so that the

therapist does think it's our fault. I know when I've gone I want to

tell it exactly like it is so I know if I'm wrong or not. I want to

know so that I can right any wrongs I've done. But, then again if

your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that you

are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

Believe it or not I still love you, and I always will. But I can't

accept your current behavior, rationale, moods, anger, blame, whining.

When your ready to act like an adult, own up to your wrongs, then

call us. We'll always be here for you, but we are done fawning over

your wife trying to make her like us. We are done feeling guilty for

crimes we didn't commit.

There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give me

advice that would end the life of my father. What happened to that

tony? I know he must still be in there, and is dying to get out, so

why don't you?

The only decision problems you've ever had are over minute things

like where to eat? When it came to tough decisions you were

competent, and IF anyone has convinced you otherwise then that is

sad. You think I would have had you help me make such a decision with

grandpa if I thought you weren't level headed, rational, mature,

loving, and wise?

Bye Tony. I hope it does't take long for you to break out of your

cocoon your trapped in and let the real tony who everyone loved

emerge. Just think also who you have alienated in the past 3.5 years.

Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting worried. If

you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis with

our son then you are sadly mistaken. We may not tell them every

detail but we lean on them for advice, something you could certainly

use to do!!!!!!!!! Why not listen to the sage wisdom of your

grandmother? Why not call an aunt you can trust? Why is it just your

peers you listen to? Could it be that its because you'll get the

answer that will support your cause? Think about it. I won't be

condemned from using family as it was meant to be. If your embarassed

by it, then you better think about your actions that would cause such

embarassment.

Love,

Mom

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2:13 PM

December 17, 2007

Tony, you've been split black. This letter is way too long, so I've

condensed it and translated it for you.

>

> You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your job

> on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are.

***When mama's mad, everyone's gotta be mad.***

However, our friend Homer is too nice of a

> guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

> CHILD!!!!

***I own you***

>

> Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's do

> and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your

> still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

***You are a bad little boy.***

>

> What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

> matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in anguish

> because she can't be satisfied.

***We like it when we buy you stuff, because then you owe us. We buy

not out of love, but a need to control.***

>

> What a cop out your phony complaint list was

***Your feelings are irrelevant to me. Plus, you're stupid.***

what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd grade

> mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

> general conversation?

***I can't accept responsibility and apologize when I've hurt someone,

so I project.***

>

I think Homer will enjoy hearing what

> you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and treated

> us like the morning trash.

***I will use all the people in my life to control you, cut you off,

and make you feel like a bad little boy.***

>

> You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too?

***You have always been a burden to us.***

> your wife put you up to it

***I am so jealous that you married another woman and left me all

alone. I hate her for taking you away from me.***

Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or at

> least you told me she did.)

***I feel I have the right to know every detail of your life, no

matter how personal. And I will use those details against you later.***

> I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly miscarrying

***She should get over it. I have determined that 2 days is maximum

grieving time and any more than that just makes you weak.***

What ever

> she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for her

> behavior on the trip.

***I am calling your wife a liar.***

> But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to me.

***I have very low self esteem.***

> It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face that the

> sooner you can manage your wife.

***I don't like your growing independence.***

I told

> you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is entitled

> to make one mistake!

***This is the one time I tried to let you make your own decisions.***

> She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for yourself

> anymore.

***I've lost control of you, and it is very frightening.***

but your pussy whipped.

***I talk like a 14 year old boy.*** (sorry, couldn't resist that one)

> just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you know

> that's what you sound like?

***Your pain both disgusts and amuses me, because it is only my own

pain that I care about.***

>

> Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE YOU

> THAT NAIVE?

***Everyone lies to you except me. I am the only one you can trust.***

We don't know or recognize you anymore as our son

> Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> grandpa doted over.

***If you don't do as we wish, we will not love you anymore.****

How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could see

> you tony??!!!!!

***Here is my attempt to control you with shame.***

Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho man!!!

***I like to hurt you.***

> no kid born to you will change the marriage you

> have.

***I want you to be as unhappy as I am.***

> children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part.

***If you have children, I will be even less of a priority and may be

pushed further from your life. This terrifies me. Maybe I can shame

you and cut you down enough to stop you.***

>

> What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of advice

> your getting?

***Your therapist is also stupid and out to hurt you. Only your

mother can be trusted.***

But, then again if

> your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that you

> are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

***I am a gifted spinmeister.***

>

> There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give me

> advice that would end the life of my father.

***Remember your grandpa? He is gone. I hope you feel bad about that

too.***

>

the real tony who everyone loved

***You have become a bad little boy, and now I don't love you anymore.***

> Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting worried. If

> you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis with

> our son then you are sadly mistaken.

***I will turn the whole family against you.***

Why is it just your

> peers you listen to?

***It's easier for a family to be dysfunctional when everyone agrees

to hide the truth.***

then you better think about your actions that would cause such

> embarassment.

***You are a bad little boy.***

>

> Love,

***Family means you love me no matter how I treat you.***

>

> Mom

>

December 17, 2007

Nothing short of brilliant, Deanna -- I loved it! So true -- so

funny!

-Kyla

>

> Tony, you've been split black. This letter is way too long, so

I've

> condensed it and translated it for you.

> >

> > You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your

job

> > on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are.

>

> ***When mama's mad, everyone's gotta be mad.***

>

> However, our friend Homer is too nice of a

> > guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

> > CHILD!!!!

>

> ***I own you***

> >

>

> > Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish

parent's do

> > and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but

your

> > still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

>

> ***You are a bad little boy.***

> >

> > What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

> > matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in

anguish

> > because she can't be satisfied.

>

> ***We like it when we buy you stuff, because then you owe us. We

buy

> not out of love, but a need to control.***

>

> >

> > What a cop out your phony complaint list was

>

> ***Your feelings are irrelevant to me. Plus, you're stupid.***

>

> what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd grade

> > mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

> > general conversation?

>

> ***I can't accept responsibility and apologize when I've hurt

someone,

> so I project.***

>

> >

> I think Homer will enjoy hearing what

> > you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and

treated

> > us like the morning trash.

>

> ***I will use all the people in my life to control you, cut you

off,

> and make you feel like a bad little boy.***

>

> >

> > You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too?

>

> ***You have always been a burden to us.***

>

> > your wife put you up to it

>

> ***I am so jealous that you married another woman and left me all

> alone. I hate her for taking you away from me.***

>

> Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or at

> > least you told me she did.)

>

> ***I feel I have the right to know every detail of your life, no

> matter how personal. And I will use those details against you

later.***

>

> > I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly

miscarrying

>

> ***She should get over it. I have determined that 2 days is

maximum

> grieving time and any more than that just makes you weak.***

>

> What ever

> > she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for

her

> > behavior on the trip.

>

> ***I am calling your wife a liar.***

>

> > But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to

me.

>

> ***I have very low self esteem.***

>

> > It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face

that the

> > sooner you can manage your wife.

>

> ***I don't like your growing independence.***

>

> I told

> > you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is

entitled

> > to make one mistake!

>

> ***This is the one time I tried to let you make your own

decisions.***

>

> > She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for

yourself

> > anymore.

>

> ***I've lost control of you, and it is very frightening.***

>

> but your pussy whipped.

>

> ***I talk like a 14 year old boy.*** (sorry, couldn't resist that

one)

>

> > just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you

know

> > that's what you sound like?

>

> ***Your pain both disgusts and amuses me, because it is only my own

> pain that I care about.***

>

> >

> > Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE

YOU

> > THAT NAIVE?

>

> ***Everyone lies to you except me. I am the only one you can

trust.***

>

> We don't know or recognize you anymore as our son

> > Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> > grandpa doted over.

>

> ***If you don't do as we wish, we will not love you anymore.****

>

> How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could see

> > you tony??!!!!!

>

> ***Here is my attempt to control you with shame.***

>

> Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho man!!!

>

> ***I like to hurt you.***

> > no kid born to you will change the marriage you

> > have.

>

> ***I want you to be as unhappy as I am.***

>

> > children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part.

>

> ***If you have children, I will be even less of a priority and may

be

> pushed further from your life. This terrifies me. Maybe I can

shame

> you and cut you down enough to stop you.***

>

> >

> > What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of

advice

> > your getting?

>

> ***Your therapist is also stupid and out to hurt you. Only your

> mother can be trusted.***

>

> But, then again if

> > your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that

you

> > are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

>

> ***I am a gifted spinmeister.***

>

> >

> > There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give

me

> > advice that would end the life of my father.

>

> ***Remember your grandpa? He is gone. I hope you feel bad about

that

> too.***

>

> >

> the real tony who everyone loved

>

> ***You have become a bad little boy, and now I don't love you

anymore.***

>

> > Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting

worried. If

> > you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis

with

> > our son then you are sadly mistaken.

>

> ***I will turn the whole family against you.***

>

> Why is it just your

> > peers you listen to?

>

> ***It's easier for a family to be dysfunctional when everyone

agrees

> to hide the truth.***

>

> then you better think about your actions that would cause such

> > embarassment.

>

> ***You are a bad little boy.***

> >

> > Love,

>

> ***Family means you love me no matter how I treat you.***

> >

> > Mom

> >

>

December 17, 2007

Wow Tony,

Your mom is a psycho.....

Not knowing you or your wife personally......and even if your wife

was half as horrible as your mother spewed in this nasty

email.....that doesn't give her a right to talk to you, about her,

this way, she is your wife!!!

This just makes me so sad. I am a mother to 3 boys, and I would

hope I never feel so compelled to write such venom. Your mother is

just plain wrong, and I see a million reasons, in that one email, to

tell you to RUN, TONY, RUN!!!

I can't believe she would dare talk about respect....when she is the

one being so disrespectful.........and use the money that she spent

on you, the vacations, etc.....as a weapon to hurt you. I will

never have that kind of money to spend on my childrens

education,cars, vacations etc......and if I did, I certainly

wouldn't bring it up in an argument, and beat them over the head

with it.

I have had a miscarriage as well, at 20 weeks.....they figured the

baby died at 18......I have to admit, I was a raging b-tch a week

before I started to show signs of a loss....not knowing that my baby

had died, I was out of my head, scared my poor husband. Those rages

were from a total hormonal upheaval. I had never acted that way

before or since. I feel your pain....and it is sure shitty of her

to bring that up.

I was very close to my grandpa's.......was even there while one died

at home with Hospice. This is crushing to hear her bring that point

up as well.

The future grand babies....she is down right nasty what she says

about this......who thinks this shit up??? " look at my baby isn't

it so cute " , blah,blah,blah......a real, loving grandma, would love

a baby....wether it came from you, the stork, or china.....that is

if she truly loved you, unconditionally, like real moms do. KEEP

HER AWAY FROM ANY FUTURE CHILDREN.....she is likely to harm them

because they will be half of your wife's.

Therapists.........she needs a whole team of them, in a padded room,

with a white suit that ties in the back!!!

And finally......for her to bring up your family....and to use them

to make you feel worse......is just like a good old fashioned

BULLY!!! And what is soooooo wrong with calling a family friend for

some help on your house??? Doesn't sound like a crime to me???

She sounds like an ugly, ugly, woman!!! Take the good advise Kyla

gave you, and just ignore this email......and take the advice that I

gave to a certain KO (she knows who she is;0) print this sucker off,

and frame it!!! Laminate it, and make place matts for your table,

for 8, 10, or even 12 people. Hell.......make and extra copy to

burn, just for fun....but be sure to keep one as a reminder, collect

her crazy, it helps to pull it out when you are feeling like being

sucked back in.

Sorry I kind of went " off " .....stirred up something in me......and

sorry this is your mother....mine sucks too!!! Keep posting, we

are all here for you....

drlingirl

>

> My parents and I have been arguing since summer now, and nothing

we

> do helps things. I question whether my mom has a BPD, or some

other

> mental illness. I ackknowledge I have probably made mistakes, as

has

> my wife, but i am just wondering what people's opinion is on the

> email i recieved after a fight i had with her. I am at a loss and

> any insights or advice would be greatly appreciated, sorry this

email

> is really long....

>

> You have some nerve using YOUR parent's friend to still do your

job

> on your apartment! What a hypocrite you are. If you truly wanted

to

> distance yourself from us and be your own man, you certainly

wouldn't

> be calling our friends to help you out. Sure, get your discount

rate

> but ignore your parent's who were the one's who enabled you to get

> it!!. It'd be like us calling one of your friends to do us a favor

> now, how would that feel Tony? I'm sure you wouldn't be at all

> pleased with that scenario and that you'd actually be angry that

your

> friend even obliged you. However, our friend Homer is too nice of

a

> guy not to work something out for you simply because YOU ARE OUR

> CHILD!!!!

>

> Why not tell Homer about what you think of your mom and dad? Why

not

> tell Homer how you wouldn't let us in the apartment, how you

> threatened to call the police on your mom and then called your

mother

> a f'ing bitch! Why not tell him that it's been 5 days since and

you

> still have no remorse?

>

> Hypocrite of the year award is granted Tony. YOUR selfish parent's

do

> and have done nothing for you in all area's of your life but your

> still continue using us to your advantage now don't you?

>

> What have your wife's parent's friends done for you? Or for that

> matter what has you wife done for you except leave you in anguish

> because she can't be satisfied.

>

> What a cop out your phony complaint list was, and I knew the

minute

> you got to the part about how we didn't " include Becca in our

> conversation " , what it was all really about! What is she a 3rd

grade

> mentality now, and we have to spoon feed her to take part in a

> general conversation? How old is she? When she is with your

friends

> does she need to have everyone doting on her (well that's probably

a

> silly question now, isn't it?)

>

> There is no end to you and your wife's hypocrisy. You want to do

your

> apartment and be free and clear of us then you find someone else

to

> do it other then our friends. I think Homer will enjoy hearing

what

> you said to us and how you've kicked your parent's around and

treated

> us like the morning trash. Homer is very loyal so I know this will

be

> a conflict for him if I decide to tell him.

>

> You think that paying us off means your not indebted to us too?

No,

> we didn't do anything for you in your life did we? Who gave you

the

> fling flying loan? Who gave you the wedding loan? Who put you

through

> an $80,000 college and paid for all your expenses? Who held a

> rehearsal dinner at her soon to be daughter in laws request? Who

paid

> over $2,000 dollars for open bar and appetizers when we didn't

want

> an open bar! Who gave you a big check when you got married? Who

> dropped people form the wedding list to make you happy so you

could

> some bartenders from Rock Bottom? Who didn't get to pick out the

> invitations to the rehearsal dinner we sponsored because your wife

> did it on the sly?!!!! What issues were made of that Tony? Wasn't

it

> us once again who gave in to keep the peace?

> Who gave you a car to use through high school and part of college?

> Who paid for you to play soccer for how many years AFTER college,

> with no recognition from you? Who put's nothing but sincere

thought

> into my gift giving for both you and your wife despite our

> differences, Huh, Ton, who is it? Who invited you guys to go to

> Hawaii with us at a cost of $6,000? Do you think we did that

because

> we wanted to have nothing to do with your wife?!!! We did it to

help

> us bond more, however we couldn't have dreamed that she would

behave

> the way she did and that the two of you would ignore our wish to

> spend most of our time together. And yes, you are accountable

because

> YOU heard it first hand from me what we wanted, but you continued

to

> chip away at what I requested because your wife put you up to it

or

> perhaps because you knew Becca was incapable of spending time with

us

> pleasantly. And, if it was you who didn't want to spend time with

us

> then you should have been the way you used to be, honest, and told

us

> so. Perhaps we wouldn't have had you come and we would have saved

a

> ton of money. As far as validated goes, you've got to be kidding?

> Let's see if I remember right. You initially told me Becca was one

> day late, you weren't trying for a baby, she had no reason to

believe

> she was pregnant yet she thought she saw something when she got

her

> heavier then usual period. Gee, didn't she just switch pills (or

at

> least you told me she did.) Changing the pill would account for a

> different flow. IF she thought she was pregnant and miscarried it

> would have been easy enough to find out with a simple 3 minute

home

> pregnancy kit right then. Since even if you miscarry you still

have

> the elevated levels of hormone in your blood that would indicate

you

> were indeed pregnant. Let's see that means she could have put her

> worries to rest the 1st day of the trip, and she is validated for

her

> mood for the entire trip to Hawaii? Let me ask you something, how

was

> her mood alone with you? She certainly seemed to be having a good

> time then!!!!! How could you dismiss her actions with us so easily

> and then turn them around to blame us? No, we're not understanding

> because she didn't want to be pregnant, and you guys weren't

trying.

> I could see a day or two max at being down about possibly

miscarrying

> but when there were so many avenues that could have been taken to

> alleviate her worries there is no excuse! If you don't like to

hear

> this too bad. Why don't you call her ob/gyn and ask the nurse if

she

> would have seen tissue at two weeks pregnant as she claims? What

ever

> she saw was a figment of her imagination, or worse an excuse for

her

> behavior on the trip. But there is no excusing her behavior

because

> there were hospitals, drs., pregnancy tests, nurses in her ob

office,

> or even your idiot mom that she could have contacted or talked to.

> But see, I would have known it was ruse so she couldn't talk to

me.

> It was all about defending her moods and the sooner you face that

the

> sooner you can manage your wife. Who wouldn't do this in order to

> ease their mind and have a good time in a place like Hawaii? Do

you

> think you'll ever go there again? You won't be able to afford it,

> face it.

>

> If it weren't for us you would have never gone there, and she was

> determined to be alone with you because SHE DOESN'T " T LIKE US, not

> the other way around. Dad buys her a lei and she claims she's

> allergic to flowers!!! I know you have bought her flowers many

times

> and I've never heard that excuse before. Every time she comes to

our

> house now she says she has allergies to my cats. Is this a recent

> phenomena? Maybe one that will build the excuse for her not being

> able to come over here eventually? Wake up! This little blip of a

> vacation was the dream trip that any other child or person for

that

> matter would have given their left arm for, and yet who ends up

> trying to make amends but us?!!!! You've got to be kidding right?

> We're supposed to be understanding of a miscarriage she didn't

have

> and didn't find out until she got home from the trip,

coincidentally?

> Even with all the avenues she had? And why didn't you get her to

act

> sooner to find out it wasn't a pregnancy so that she could enjoy

> herself? Is it perhaps because she didn't tell you this excuse

until

> she was cornered into why her mood was the way it was the 2nd

night

> before we came home? Isn't it weird that that is when you would

find

> out? You said you noticed her mood so certainly you would have

> inquired sooner? Certainly you would have said " Bec, my parent's

> paid ALL this money to bring us with them, we can't ruin the trip

> because of this, so why don't we go to a dr, hospital, or you at

> least call home to find out if you should they think you actually

> miscarried. " Or at least that's what the old Tony would have cared

> enough to do.

>

> We have made nothing but continuous effort to disregard her

> thoughtless comments since you met her, including her thoughtless

> display at 's wedding where she humiliated the entire

family!

> Do you think the family has forgotten her little indiscretion? You

> asked me the day after that embarrassing 'little' display if you

> should break up with her and do you remember what I said?!!!! I

told

> you that that was your decision to make but that everyone is

entitled

> to make one mistake! That is some selfish, loveless mother you've

> got, isn't it!!!! There was my chance to say dump her and I didn't

do

> that because I knew it wasn't my place, and how much you loved

her.

> NOW you will never be asked on another trip and dad and I are your

> best resource for doing so. Where will little Becca's parent's

take

> you Tony, except crazy?

>

> I've reached the end of my rope with you and your ingratitude

towards

> us. YOU once showed us love and affection and gratitude, as well

as

> we reciprocated. I don't know where you went, or your wonderful

> personality. Now all I see is anger. Is it the meds? The

therapist?

> Does Becca go to a therapist? Has she ever gone with you?

Shouldn't

> you both be in therapy if your unhappy since perhaps it's your

> marriage that is causing it, or has she convinced you it's " you

Tony,

> and your controlling, suffocating parents! " I can't believe you

> wouldn't insist on her going, and if she refuses go then there is

> something wrong with her and your marriage. Any other wife would

> have called your parent's anything they wanted in order to EASE

YOUR

> ANGUISH, but not Becca. Oh, I forgot, we're your peers, you guys

are

> adults now so you should have the same respect as your

> parents.....NOT!!!! We deserve respect because we are your

parents,

> we brought you into this world, raised you with nothing but love

and

> kindness, and have done nothing but try to get along with your

wife.

> ARE SO BLIND THAT YOU CAN " T SEE THAT IT IS YOUR WIFE WHO HAS

> CONVINCED YOU OF THE TERRIBLE PEOPLE WE ARE, AND THAT WE HAVE

WRONGED

> YOU & HER!! WE'VE WRONGED YOU SO MUCH THEN YOU MAY AS WELL CHANGE

> YOUR NAME TO SARWARK BECAUSE YOU CERTIANLY AREN'T A MESSINA OR A

> BALDOCCHI! PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME TO SARWARK!!!!

>

> She's in complete control of you Tony, you don't speak for

yourself

> anymore. I'm sorry if it hurts to hear it, but your pussy whipped.

> Oh, what, are you going to call the police tony? Are you going to

> tell them that I'm threatening you? Maybe you could lie to them

like

> you lied to someone else that I said F'ing Bitch, and not just

Bitch?

> Perhaps your confused...you said F'ing bitch to your mother, the

> person who gave birth to you, who devoted her entire life to you

> without needing a career since my boys were my life.

>

> I can't wait to hear how she twists this little tidbit around in

your

> brain. She's like those psychiatrists in the 1980's who destroyed

> umpteen families by telling their young patients that they had

> repressed memories, that under hypnosis the young man or woman

would

> tell them that they were sexually abused by their parents. It all

> came out years later that it was one big scam, but how many

families

> did it destroy in the process? Is that how easy we are to write

off

> Tony? Is that how we've raised you, to be me, me, me, my, my, my,

> just like a little namby pamby teen age girl would cry. Did you

know

> that's what you sound like? You want to be treated like an adult,

> then ACT LIKE ONE!! Grow up, and face the music Tony, you have a

> controlling wife. Both dad and I knew that after our get together

she

> would twist what happened to being 'oh woe is me, your parent's

wrong

> me again. " " Tony, what are you going to do about it. I'm your

wife,

> you must defend me against you awful, deceiving, lying, trash bags

of

> parent! "

>

> Why do you think she won't change her email name to Messina? ARE

YOU

> THAT NAIVE? Any woman who get's married is so excited to change

their

> name over in every area to the married name, but not Becca because

> it's too much trouble? You just don't get how some woman

manipulate

> but it's time you find out before you lose your f'ing lose your

mind.

>

> Trying to make us the scapegoat for your marital woes won't work

> anymore since we don't want you in our life they way your mind is

> currently working. We don't know or recognize you anymore as our

son

> Tony, the loving, generous, honest boy we raised. The boy that

> grandpa doted over. How ashamed would grandpa be now if he could

see

> you tony??!!!!! Do you think he'd have a smidgen of respect left

in

> his body for you? If he can see down from heaven (if there is

one,)

> what do you think he feels? What does Poppy feel? These are peope

you

> used to want to emulate. The shame tony and humiliation you must

feel

> for treating the person who once was your best friend the way you

did

> the other night, and then not owning up to it! You sure showed me

> didn't you ton? Macho, macho man....I just want to be.. a macho

man!!!

>

> Get off your entitlement high horse and realize that your not

> entitled to anything, that one has to earn it in life and you have

> fallen far short of that in the last 3.5 years! It has been a

> downward spiral for you tony and I guess you won't get it until

you

> hit rock bottom and no kid born to you will change the marriage

you

> have. No one as selfish as you and becca are should be having

> children and if you do it is purely narcissism on your part. " Oh

> look, the baby is just like me...beautfiul, now all my friends

will

> envy me for what a beautifuil baby I created " . Oh, and another

laugh

> is that you guys take the high road? Just what high road is that

Ton?

> You weren't able to start fresh realizing that it would take time

to

> re-establish our relationship with both you and your wife, instead

> you let her talk you into writing a letter about how we've wronged

> you, and then just slipping into the letter a little blurb about

the

> Saturday get together so that we wouldn't think that the letter

you

> were insisting on reading from was all about Saturday, when in

> reality we ALL know it was, or at least three of us.

>

> What type of therapist do you have that gives you the type of

advice

> your getting? Or is all your advice coming from becca? Perhaps

your

> not being honest with the therapist, twisting things so that the

> therapist does think it's our fault. I know when I've gone I want

to

> tell it exactly like it is so I know if I'm wrong or not. I want

to

> know so that I can right any wrongs I've done. But, then again if

> your mind is as twisted as it appears now you may believe that you

> are telling the truth when in reality it's becca's truth.

>

> Believe it or not I still love you, and I always will. But I can't

> accept your current behavior, rationale, moods, anger, blame,

whining.

>

> When your ready to act like an adult, own up to your wrongs, then

> call us. We'll always be here for you, but we are done fawning

over

> your wife trying to make her like us. We are done feeling guilty

for

> crimes we didn't commit.

>

> There was time tony that I respected you enough to have you give

me

> advice that would end the life of my father. What happened to that

> tony? I know he must still be in there, and is dying to get out,

so

> why don't you?

>

> The only decision problems you've ever had are over minute things

> like where to eat? When it came to tough decisions you were

> competent, and IF anyone has convinced you otherwise then that is

> sad. You think I would have had you help me make such a decision

with

> grandpa if I thought you weren't level headed, rational, mature,

> loving, and wise?

>

> Bye Tony. I hope it does't take long for you to break out of your

> cocoon your trapped in and let the real tony who everyone loved

> emerge. Just think also who you have alienated in the past 3.5

years.

> Tyler, Danny, me, dad and now your grandmother is getting worried.

If

> you think we don't rely on family to help us through this crisis

with

> our son then you are sadly mistaken. We may not tell them every

> detail but we lean on them for advice, something you could

certainly

> use to do!!!!!!!!! Why not listen to the sage wisdom of your

> grandmother? Why not call an aunt you can trust? Why is it just

your

> peers you listen to? Could it be that its because you'll get the

> answer that will support your cause? Think about it. I won't be

> condemned from using family as it was meant to be. If your

embarassed

> by it, then you better think about your actions that would cause

such

> embarassment.

>

> Love,

>

> Mom

>

December 17, 2007

Hey Tony,

How nice. She sounds just like my NADA. Perhaps they should exchange

phone numbers and be friends. they can whine and be miserable

together. My mom loves company when she is miserable.

Your NADA really does say a lot of the same stuff mine does. My NADA

always likes to send it in an email too. NADA always likes to tell me

that my fiancee has me brainwashed. That I do everything because he

tells me to, including feeling the way i do about her. NADA's don't

like significant others, they are a threat to their relationship with

you. its like their worst enemy.

And how disgustingly insenstive can she be about the possibility of a

miscarriage? No one knows their own body better than a woman. if she

felt something wasn't right then something must not have been right.

And to try to let it go just for the sake of the freaking trip? What

is more important than your wife's health? Some stupid allergic

flowers on a lei?

I have receieved SEVERAL emails just like the one you got. MY best

advice is DONT respond to it. dont give her the satisfaction. she

wants the confrontation with you. she wants you to come pleading

back, saying how sorry you are and what a bad son you are. you are

married. your wife, becca should be your main focus. try to find

happiness in each other. your crazy mom isn't worth your lifetime of

happiness.

I'm so sick of playing games with my NADA. i think we all are. don't

give her the time of day. just let it all go. you have your own life,

your own family now.dont let her devaluate you anymore.

I liked when she typed out the lyrics to " Macho Man " . what a weirdo.

For Christmas you should send her a copy of the " best of the village

people " .

hang in there.