Re: BPD w/o rage?

[Guest guest]

> can someone have bpd and not be violent or go into rages?

I don't know the " real " answer to this but -

My husband has (very high functioning) Asperger's Syndrome. My mom is

BPD (unofficial diagnosis). I am constantly amazed at how SIMILAR

they are, in manifestation of behavior, EXCEPT for the anger and

rage. The big difference is that my husband acts from a place of

cluelessness, and my mom is - well, evil. Brain writing vs

personality disorder.

It's marginally easier to live with than BPD. Aspies can learn and be

taught, if you're willing to put in tons and tons of effort.

**********

carelia ~ C. Norton

carelia@...

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think it is possible for a BPD person to not show rage as

frequently as most here on this group seem to experience. My mother

only explodes with it rarely - she is primarily a Waif(from

the " Understanding the Borderline Mother " book) whereas most people

driven to seek help or talk about it seem to have mothers with a much

higher Witch component. With my mother the problems are much more

about her being childlike and manipulative putting me and sometimes

others in no-win situations of " save " her or be impacted by the

greater crisis that would come if we don't. Tending to use others

love and humanity to force caring actions rather than take care of

herself. So it's not violent, there's not screaming, but over time it

is very destructive.

>

> can someone have bpd and not be violent or go into rages? i've been

> reading a lot of messages. a psychiatrist friend of mine thinks

(after

> hearing my stories of my mom) that my mom has a borderline

personality

> disorder. anyways the show on dr. phil w/the mom, son and daughter

in

> law reminded me of my mom. but i didn't make the connection, but

then i

> read on here that others had made the connection betw. the mom and

bpd.

> any insight would be great.

>

[Guest guest]

I'd be interested here more about the ways BPD and Aspie's are

alike...could you tell more?

>

> > can someone have bpd and not be violent or go into rages?

>

> I don't know the " real " answer to this but -

>

> My husband has (very high functioning) Asperger's Syndrome. My mom

is

> BPD (unofficial diagnosis). I am constantly amazed at how SIMILAR

> they are, in manifestation of behavior, EXCEPT for the anger and

> rage. The big difference is that my husband acts from a place of

> cluelessness, and my mom is - well, evil. Brain writing vs

> personality disorder.

>

> It's marginally easier to live with than BPD. Aspies can learn and

be

> taught, if you're willing to put in tons and tons of effort.

>

> **********

> carelia ~ C. Norton

> carelia@...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think it's entirely possible to be bpd w/o the violent rages. My fada is

a prime example -- he's a game-player and manipulator extra-ordinaire.. His

devious behavior - for which he takes no responsibility -- has others pulling

their hair out, while he sits by gloating and enjoying the show.

I've only been aware of bpd for about 3 months. During that time I've realized

that he derives some sort of perverse pleasure from causing pain to people he is

supposedly loving. His insensitivity to other's feelings is sociopathic.

Really scarey stuff....

AZClown

BPD w/o rage?

can someone have bpd and not be violent or go into rages? i've been

reading a lot of messages. a psychiatrist friend of mine thinks (after

hearing my stories of my mom) that my mom has a borderline personality

disorder. anyways the show on dr. phil w/the mom, son and daughter in

law reminded me of my mom. but i didn't make the connection, but then i

read on here that others had made the connection betw. the mom and bpd.

any insight would be great.

________________________________________________________________________________\

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[Guest guest]

Actually Yeti is most terrifying when she doesn’t rage, she simmers. Then,

you *know* it’s not going to be in your face (nothing like a good ol’ rage),

it’s going to be in your back…

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[Guest guest]

my mother does the same thing. SHe use to go into rages when I was little up to

the time I was a teen. When I went off to college her choice of manipulation

changed. She became more passive aggressive.

http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect

[Guest guest]

Gosh, thanks everyone for all the responses. I thought I was doing ok

w/my mom but I'm right back to where I was more than a month ago when I

first found this group. I've got another big question to ask but let me

give you some examples. The most hurtful ones revolve about me being a

mom myself....

She literally forgot (not jokingly) that her and my dad were taking my

older 2 kids when I was going to the hospital to have my 3rd baby. Then

when I told her how we'd planned on them taking them, for months,

several conversations, she back tracked and was like " oh yeah right "

This comment was made 2x in reference to me having my 3rd (very much

planned and wanted baby)

" you really shot yourself in the foot " meaning I really hurt myself by

having my baby, because it makes my life so difficult.

I'll be talking to her on the phone and the kids will be fooling

around, doing things they're not supposed to, to get my attention and

get off the phone. She said something to the effect like " aren't they

being little snots " I said " well they want me off the phone "

The other day I was telling her this story and she asked me if I felt

like a " heathen " I said no

She told my son for 2 years that he was going to come to her house for

a sleep over, it finally happened. I had to tell her to stop saying it

unless it was going to happen.

We had this huge blow up, spoke w/a councelor and I thought she was

doing ok, but I was wrong....

My sister has much worse stories from when we were young but I don't

remember it happening. My sister and I just started talking about this

stuff in depth, before it was more of just complaining and calling her

crazy. Like my sister remembers a time where we had to sit at the

dinner table until we finished. She threw up in her food and my mom

made her eat it. My sister always seemed to aggagerate stuff but now

I'm starting to wonder....

Anyways my major cause of concern these days is, Christmas is coming

and my sister warned me that my mom is going to get worse, to expect

it. Well I just found out that I'm pregnant w/baby #4. My husband and I

are so excited. We haven't told any friends yet. I'm scared to hear the

response from my parents. Becuase the other times I announced I was

pregnant this is what I got:

Baby #1 " Already?!? "

Baby #2 " Again?!? "

Baby #3 " Guess you're not stopping at 2 "

She is never happy, excited. I don't want to hear it but I want to tell

my friends and others who will be excited for us. My inlaws will be

here for x-mas and my mother in law will be so happy. I'm thinking I

want to tell the inlaws first, send my parents an online card, that way

I don't have to hear their immediate comments, they can think about

it.What do you think? How do I deal with her during the holidays, how

can I prepare myself w/responses to her stupid comments?

>

>

> my mother does the same thing. SHe use to go into rages when I was

little up to the time I was a teen. When I went off to college her

choice of manipulation changed. She became more passive aggressive.

>

> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect

>

>

[Guest guest]

What you wrote really spoke to me in so many ways. I am like your sensitive

sister who remembers a lot more than my own sister remembers. My sister is also

starting to finally see things and understand that I was labeled this way by my

parents who love to label people. The one thing that helps me in situations like

this is to contemplate how they will react and what they will say so your

expectations will meet them where they are. You have done that which to me is

the toughest part. You know how she will react so now you just have to decide

how to deliver the exciting news!!! and then how to respond. I think your idea

of sending an email is great. She has demonstrated that grandchildren are not

that important to her so that would probably be her preferred method. THis will

also allow you to tell others and receive positive comments about this exciting

time. Basically you will be taking all her perceived power over you in this

situation to allow yourself, family, and friends to really enjoy sharing the

good news. Isn't it so sad at the most important wonderful parts of life we have

to deal with how we can protect ourselves from the dysfunctional parents we

have? Good luck!

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: jb2w@...: Sat, 15 Dec 2007

12:29:48 +0000Subject: Re: BPD w/o rage?

Gosh, thanks everyone for all the responses. I thought I was doing ok w/my mom

but I'm right back to where I was more than a month ago when I first found this

group. I've got another big question to ask but let me give you some examples.

The most hurtful ones revolve about me being a mom myself....She literally

forgot (not jokingly) that her and my dad were taking my older 2 kids when I was

going to the hospital to have my 3rd baby. Then when I told her how we'd planned

on them taking them, for months, several conversations, she back tracked and was

like " oh yeah right " This comment was made 2x in reference to me having my 3rd

(very much planned and wanted baby) " you really shot yourself in the foot "

meaning I really hurt myself by having my baby, because it makes my life so

difficult.I'll be talking to her on the phone and the kids will be fooling

around, doing things they're not supposed to, to get my attention and get off

the phone. She said something to the effect like " aren't they being little

snots " I said " well they want me off the phone " The other day I was telling her

this story and she asked me if I felt like a " heathen " I said noShe told my son

for 2 years that he was going to come to her house for a sleep over, it finally

happened. I had to tell her to stop saying it unless it was going to happen. We

had this huge blow up, spoke w/a councelor and I thought she was doing ok, but I

was wrong....My sister has much worse stories from when we were young but I

don't remember it happening. My sister and I just started talking about this

stuff in depth, before it was more of just complaining and calling her crazy.

Like my sister remembers a time where we had to sit at the dinner table until we

finished. She threw up in her food and my mom made her eat it. My sister always

seemed to aggagerate stuff but now I'm starting to wonder....Anyways my major

cause of concern these days is, Christmas is coming and my sister warned me that

my mom is going to get worse, to expect it. Well I just found out that I'm

pregnant w/baby #4. My husband and I are so excited. We haven't told any friends

yet. I'm scared to hear the response from my parents. Becuase the other times I

announced I was pregnant this is what I got:Baby #1 " Already?!? " Baby #2

" Again?!? " Baby #3 " Guess you're not stopping at 2 " She is never happy, excited. I

don't want to hear it but I want to tell my friends and others who will be

excited for us. My inlaws will be here for x-mas and my mother in law will be so

happy. I'm thinking I want to tell the inlaws first, send my parents an online

card, that way I don't have to hear their immediate comments, they can think

about it.What do you think? How do I deal with her during the holidays, how can

I prepare myself w/responses to her stupid comments?>> > my

mother does the same thing. SHe use to go into rages when I was little up to the

time I was a teen. When I went off to college her choice of manipulation

changed. She became more passive aggressive. > >

http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect> > [Non-text

portions of this message have been removed]>

_________________________________________________________________

Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.

http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007

[Guest guest]

I think the online card idea sounds good. Let her spew her sarcastic

comments at the computer screen. Congratulations! I'm happy for you!

As an aside, your sister's story reminded me of one of mine. When I

was about seven or eight I woke up not feeling well. I told nada,

who told me to eat my breakfast, I'd probably feel better. I sat

down and ate (pancakes) and promptly threw up at the table (mostly on

the floor, a little on the table itself). I then got a spanking for

throwing up at the table.

> >

> >

> > my mother does the same thing. SHe use to go into rages when I

was

> little up to the time I was a teen. When I went off to college her

> choice of manipulation changed. She became more passive aggressive.

> >

> > http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_Cause_Effect

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes -- my mother did that, too. (She did rage, too) The silent

treatment, or the slow seethe.......It was an effective tool,

really. The fear in the child is " how deep does that anger go? "

Like watching a newly-active volcano start to belch steam......I

can't possibly count how many times she used this against me and my

brother.

I think when we call their bluff, stand our ground and say to

ourselves " Let's see what she's got under the hood! " , her power to

scare us is defused and powerless. We're finally facing that

mysterious thing we were afraid of as children.

I'm doing that with my own nada now, and it's been interesting. Her

silent treatment stretches on (MAN, she's got stamina!!), and she's

delegated the job of " Being Angry with Kyla " to my dad, who is a

decorated veteran of Nada's army.

Thanksgiving caused a small eruption -- fada wrote a hate-filled e-

mail to me for DARING to make plans with my husband's family. I

knew it was brewing because I felt tension between us, and it was

kind of a relief when it came. I didn't answer, and now it's back

to the cold war. Christmas will give them another opportunity --

I'm sure they'll play the " we're going to be lonely over Christmas "

to the hilt. And my husband and I have already made plans to be out

of town. If they want to play the parts of two lonely people at

Christmas, it's their choice. They've laid the groundwork for it,

and they're reaping what they've sown. I finally realize it's not

my fault.

I finally stood up to the slow seething, the silent treatment, the

simmering rage, and the angry blast. ALL things I was terrified of

as a kid and an adult in my 20's and 30's.

Instead of running from the boogeyman, I'm standing my ground and

staring him down. I think he's blinking!

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Yes! I think the non-ragers are the ones who are passive-aggressive

and manipulative. That's how they offload their stored anger.....

In the book " Leaving Home " , there was a kid of a domineering BPD

mother (or some other such malady). He got his revenge on his mother

by quietly stealing from authority figures in his life. He'd slip

something off the teacher's desk and enjoy watching her look for it.

When he got into therapy, he stole from the therapist.

Or how about those sick people who go into nursing so they can be in

control of people, and withhold relief from them if they want....

Passive aggressive or manipulative are just anger in another form.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Congratulations! I agree it would be good to first tell your

inlaws, and all those who will be happy for you.

Here is what I have done when my nada makes her critical or

sarcastic remarks. I pretend to not know she is criticizing or

being sarcastic. (Think, acting dumb and very, very cheerful.) For

example - to the 'already?' response - 'Yes! Isn't it wonderful? We

are so happy we didn't have to wait a long time for this to

happen!' Again? 'Yes Mom, we are so happy to share this good news

with you!' Not stopping at just two? 'Oh no! We have found so much

joy in our family, and want to share that with another child!'

Aren't they being little snots? " Aww, Mom, you know your

grandchildren could never be that. They are so wonderful and I love

them so much. " (Notice, the focus on 'your grandchildren'.)

You may also do a bit of manipulation (oh my, did I say that?) When

I found out my son and his girlfriend were going to have a baby, I

knew I didn't want to deal with all of nada's snide remarks. So, I

played to her need to be special and in the spotlight. I brought a

take out dinner, and a bottle of wine to their house, and after we

each had a glass, I told them we had something to celebrate. That

(son) was going to have a baby, and that she was going to be the

first one in her family to be a great-grandmother! Don'tcha know,

when she called each of her sisters, she told them all that she was

the first to have a great-grandchild.

Until I went no contact, I used the dumb and cheerful act a great

deal. Nada didn't know what to say to me! I am sure she said alot

behind my back (like I am too dumb and cheerful! lol!), but I didn't

care about that!

Don't let her spoil the joy you are feeling. Send the news in the

email card and avoid the negative response. Practice being dumb and

cheerful (it is one little pleasure we can have when dealing with

our nadas.)

Happy Holidays,

Sylvia

>

> Gosh, thanks everyone for all the responses. I thought I was doing

ok

> w/my mom but I'm right back to where I was more than a month ago

when I

> first found this group. I've got another big question to ask but

let me

> give you some examples. The most hurtful ones revolve about me

being a

> mom myself....

> She literally forgot (not jokingly) that her and my dad were

taking my

> older 2 kids when I was going to the hospital to have my 3rd baby.

Then

> when I told her how we'd planned on them taking them, for months,

> several conversations, she back tracked and was like " oh yeah

right "

> This comment was made 2x in reference to me having my 3rd (very

much

> planned and wanted baby)

> " you really shot yourself in the foot " meaning I really hurt

myself by

> having my baby, because it makes my life so difficult.

> I'll be talking to her on the phone and the kids will be fooling

> around, doing things they're not supposed to, to get my attention

and

> get off the phone. She said something to the effect like " aren't

they

> being little snots " I said " well they want me off the phone "

> The other day I was telling her this story and she asked me if I

felt

> like a " heathen " I said no

> She told my son for 2 years that he was going to come to her house

for

> a sleep over, it finally happened. I had to tell her to stop

saying it

> unless it was going to happen.

> We had this huge blow up, spoke w/a councelor and I thought she

was

> doing ok, but I was wrong....

> My sister has much worse stories from when we were young but I

don't

> remember it happening. My sister and I just started talking about

this

> stuff in depth, before it was more of just complaining and calling

her

> crazy. Like my sister remembers a time where we had to sit at the

> dinner table until we finished. She threw up in her food and my

mom

> made her eat it. My sister always seemed to aggagerate stuff but

now

> I'm starting to wonder....

> Anyways my major cause of concern these days is, Christmas is

coming

> and my sister warned me that my mom is going to get worse, to

expect

> it. Well I just found out that I'm pregnant w/baby #4. My husband

and I

> are so excited. We haven't told any friends yet. I'm scared to

hear the

> response from my parents. Becuase the other times I announced I

was

> pregnant this is what I got:

> Baby #1 " Already?!? "

> Baby #2 " Again?!? "

> Baby #3 " Guess you're not stopping at 2 "

> She is never happy, excited. I don't want to hear it but I want to

tell

> my friends and others who will be excited for us. My inlaws will

be

> here for x-mas and my mother in law will be so happy. I'm thinking

I

> want to tell the inlaws first, send my parents an online card,

that way

> I don't have to hear their immediate comments, they can think

about

> it.What do you think? How do I deal with her during the holidays,

how

> can I prepare myself w/responses to her stupid comments.......

[Guest guest]

> My mother's rages largely cooled for a couple years after my dad died.

> Now in retrospect I think it was more than likely depression clouding

> over things. Just my observations, your mileage may vary. But perhaps

> they go through " seasons " sometimes depending on life circumstances???

That makes sense to me! I think my mother was a more higher

functioning (waif is it?) BPD during some periods, and other periods

of time were just over the top vicious full on raging, reality

skewing, scapegoating, information distortion campaigns-- usually

after or in connection with pivotal events-- dealing with death,

illness or cancer. I think because the full on over-the-top weirdness

was connected to those kinds of events everyone got sucked into the

idea that the whole family was required to rescue poor mother, poor

thing we have to fill her up. No individual needs of ours is ever

valid, and any trouble with her was because " we didn't understand what

she was going through " . Now as a parent myself I realise how nuts it

would be to expect my kids to drop their lives for me and fill in my

pain if my spouse died-- they'd have their own struggles too! I guess

ANY person, however " normal; " (or not) goes through seasons in their

life-- pain, loss, illness-- but we have the responsibility to handle

it, not suck everyone else around us into a black hole.

I just realized how screwed up this scenario was-- in my early to mid

20s when my father was dying of cancer my mother was a total and

complete basket case and all us kids were running around trying to

help run around fill up her emotional black hole. Never mind we were

also losing a father, it was all about her. I was the scapegoat,

nothing I could do was right, I was flaky irresponsible and evil (not

sure what I did? Forgot to put clothes in the dryer once or twice and

a bit slow with my job search and had the audacity to cook a kosher

meal whena friend came over at ehr request?). At the time I went

through major trauma of my own-- a friend died in a parachuting

accident and a co-worker was raped and a roommate who was visiting a

friend was stabbed while her friend was raped when some whacko broke

into their apartment and held them hostage-- and I was in a panic

because said wacko might be looking for the roommate (where *I*

lived!). I was a basket case myself but never said a word about it-- I

think I knew instinctively that even if I mentioned any of these

things it would somehow be even worse-- she'd appropriate and

internalise my pain and then I would not only have to deal with my

pain but I'd probably get sucked into the added burden of calming her

down, it would become somehow about her and not me. How weird is that.

Anyway I got sidetracked again... yeah I think there are seasons.