Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's inappropriate sexualizing

[Guest guest]

We weren't allowed to lock doors either. Is that BPD thing? I can see how a

normal parent wouldn't want bedroom doors locked when the kid's

girlfriends/boyfriends were over, but other than that?

Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's

inappropriate sexualizing

My nada is one of those puritan prigs, as I've mentioned briefly in

the clothes shopping thread. The " sex talk " consisted of her scowling

at me and tossing a book from Planned Parenthood at me when I was like

16. She seemed frightened by the idea of sexuality, telling me when i

was 19 that women who were promiscuous had a higher chance of

developing cervical cancer (I had done it with 1 guy). The fact that I

had already had cancer as a child didn't seem to phase her when she

made this statement. She freaked out when I stayed at my then

boyfriend's place (now husband) for a month when I was apartment

hunting. She was like " How do you have any privacy? " I lied and said I

slept on the couch. I was 21 at the time.

When I was 20, she threatened to stop giving me what little money she

did when I wanted to move into a shared apartment with my female

friend and her male friend. She freaked out and started shouting about

the dangers of living with a man in the same apartment, and then

started making racist remarks about my friend's male friend. Instead,

I moved into a small room in the home of a family. Apparently that was

OK with her, even though the father turned out to be a verbally

abusive rageaholic. He would scowl at me and make nasty remarks.

Finally, one day he blew up at me, bursting into my room and shouting

at me. I moved out soon after that (back to the dorms). My nada really

enjoyed swooping in and " saving " me from that situation. Of course,

she didn't bother saying anything to the guy about his behavior

towards me, nor did she accept any responsibility for not allowing me

to live with my friend. She much preferred playing psychologist to the

guy's wife and trying to understand his feelings. It was like great!

thanks for supporting me in a situation which you basically caused!

Anyway, back to the point... my nada used to walk around naked in

front of me before or after a shower for as long as I can remember.

She'd expect me to sit there and have a conversation with her with her

slack belly fat hanging over her hairy pubic area. It was completely

repulsive. I was also expected to have conversations with her while

she was using the restroom undressed with the door open. She would

insist that my brother and I not lock the bathroom door or bedroom

door because " we don't lock doors in this house. " I guess she expected

me to put my hygienic activities on display like she did. I would lock

the bathroom door anyway, and tried to use the bathroom quickly so she

wouldn't notice that the door was locked.

Oh, and of course, no privacy in the dressing room when shopping. If I

tried to cover myself while changing, she'd tell me to stop being so

ashamed of my body or that I shouldn't be embarrassed in front of her.

Of course, then she'd start with the remarks about my body. It's

amazing that she never made the connection.

qwerty

>

> I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

complete puritan prigs.

> There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this topic

so far. Any puritan

> nadas out there?

>

> xoxo Carla

>

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[Guest guest]

Oh yes, If we locked a door in our house there was trouble. nada

would bang on it and tell for us to " open the damned door! " . She

also got angry if we even SHUT the door at night when we went to

bed. " why do you have to shut the door? " . Privacy was unheard of.

> >

> > I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

> complete puritan prigs.

> > There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this

topic

> so far. Any puritan

> > nadas out there?

> >

> > xoxo Carla

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> Be a better friend, newshound, and

> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey,--what a coincidence--my nada made me wear one of those

elastic belts,too.You wrote:

" Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads & tampons, I

was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those elastic

belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early 80s. "

I had to laugh when I read this.Here I was thinking I must have been

the only girl in the United States who was wearing one of those

things.I got my first period in '79,in sixth grade.Even though nada

never used it herself,she must have saved her old elastic belt from

circa 1959 or something and was adamant that I wear it along with

those huge pads,god knows where she got them.I never thought that

they must have been " postpartum pads " ! It was like she couldn't move

with the times or adjust herself or she didn't have the imagination

to do things any way other than how it had been decades earlier when

SHE had had her first period.

Those pads were so bulky,I couldn't forget for one moment that I had

my period.And I was always afraid that if I stretched too high or

jumped too high,the clips would snap off and I'd have a disaster on

my hands.I was also sure that the outline of the pad could be seen

through my pants or jeans and that EVERYBODY knew I had my

period.Even more self-consciousness to add to my pretty typical pre-

teen body insecurity.I no longer wore skirts at all,which would have

been the only way to somewhat disguise the bulk of the pads because

my sixth grade (male) teacher was a pervert who was molesting

me.That's such a long,convoluted story--if I start writing that

down,my post is going to be tooo looong...Nada had given me a note to

give to this " teacher " when I first got my period and I gave it to

him,having no idea that nada had actually written him a letter saying

basically, " I think I know why is giving you so much

trouble.She's just had her first period and I think it must be

affecting her moods " ...I was giving him " so much trouble " because he

was an effing pervert and I didn't want to put up with his

shit.Nobody believed my allegations--neither nada nor fada nor the

principal.I was being blamed for it by everyone I went to for help

and at this point in the school year (the winter) the teacher was

having a field day with me.He read that letter from nada ALOUD to the

entire class and all the boys laughed.He was a sadist.I really wanted

to believe that once I told nada and fada that he had READ that

letter out loud,that they would finally understand that I was telling

the truth and they would react like any " normal " parent would: 'He

did WHAT!!!! " The only reason why a grown man would read such a

letter aloud to the entire class would be to humiliate the female

student,right?

Unfortunately,I got NO reaction from either of them.I really felt

like I just couldn't face going back to school the next day and being

12 years old,I though that I just " wanted to die " .I found some Valium

in my mother's medicine cabinet and took three before I changed my

mind and panicked.I tried to throw the Valium back up to no

avail.So,I went to nada and told her that I had taken three of her

Valium because I had wanted to die rather than go back to school and

face " the pervert " again (thinking in vain that if I continued using

the strongest possible terms to describe him that eventually they'd

listen to me).She had no reaction.

I tried again.I tried abasing myself since she usually liked that.I

told her that I had done something " really stupid " and now I was

scared--what were we going to do? Would the Valium make me really

sick? Was I going to pass out? Did we need to go to the Emergency

Room at the hospital?

She said,and I quote, " Good.Go ahead and take the rest of the

bottle.We'll drop your body off at the morgue in the morning. "

I did go to school the next day.After stuffing down lots of bread

and milk the night before like you're supposed to do if you've been

poisoned! Or so I thought I'd read somewhere.And forcing myself to

stay awake by listening to the radio in my room.That night,I heard

Gil Heron's song " The Revolution Will Not Be Televised " for the

first time and I had a revelation.That song is all about taking back

your power and getting serious about fighting for your rights.I

thought,That's it! He declared war on me by reading that letter.This

is war! This is revolution!...The next day,I started to fight back

and that is what I did for the rest of that school year,not learning

and studying,but making his life a living hell.The most important

lesson I learned that year is that revenge in NEVER enough.One act of

revenge created its own impetus for wanting more-and more-and I

realized that even if I killed him,I'd never be satisfied.I stole his

big stapler one day and whizzed it past his head in the middle of a

lesson when he was least expecting it,carefully aiming it to go past

him but not hit him.The look of fear in his eyes only enraged me even

more--it made me really want to kill him;it was horrible to know that

I had it in me to actually feel that way towards another human

being,even him.The stapler put a long crack and a hole in the

chalkboard behind him.I reminded him that it could have been his

skull (seeing my OWN life sort of flash before me-how close had I

truly come to killing him?!).He told me that he was going to

call " the police " and I told him to go right ahead: I WANTED VERY

MUCH to tell the police ALL about him.He backed down.As far as I

could tell,he never mentioned the damage to the chalkboard to

anyone.I have no idea what he told the principal,if anything.I felt

like I had lowered myself to his level and by the end of that school

year,I felt like I had plumbed the depths of my own capacity for

baseness and resolved to never sink that low ever again because it

only blackened my character as much as the person who was doing me

wrong.Revenge doesn't right a wrong--only justice can do that.And

when there is no justice to be had,the existential choice is yours:

rise above it and live through your own integrity,making the

conscious choice to be better than what you have endured--or let the

swine pull you down into their swill with them and stay there with

mud in your eyes.

As for the elastic belt and the huge pads--I had so much of another

battle going on,I let that one go. Given the " choice " between wearing

pants with the pads and feeling exposed and wearing a skirt with the

pads and feeling even more exposed,I wore pants.

That summer I went to a church camp with my best friend and got my

period while I was there.I hadn't packed the belt.The nurse at the

church summer camp only had tampons! And they worked just fine-nada

was full of shit that I was " too young " to use tampons.When I got

home,I discarded that awful belt and just used nada's tampons and

ignored her dire warnings that I " shouldn't " be doing that.She whined

that I didn't " listen " to her and that I acted like I didn't " need "

her,but after all the crap I'd gone through that year with NO help

from her,I no longer cared one bit what she thought about the subject

of " periods " .She told me I'd get " sick " from the tampons and I told

her that was fine,I'd just have to drop dead,then.Hadn't she said

that to me herself,that I should kill myself and she'd drop my body

off at the morgue?

Oh,no,no,she said,I NEVER said anything like that.You're crazy.I'd

NEVER say anything like that.

One of the most horrifying,traumatic moments of my life so far and

she claimed to not even remember it.If she was going to play that

game,hell,I'd use whatever I damned well wanted to use.

[Guest guest]

Wow christine. you and I have something in common. Both of us were

victims of molestation, told our NADA's, and niether of our NADA's

did ANYTHING about it. By their lack of concern of the situation,

they allowed it to happen.

It seems like you rebeled against your abusers behavior. This is

something I wasn't able to do. I wish I had the courage to do that

back then, maybe things would have turned out different. or maybe

worse, i don't know. The sexual abuse I experienced is only

something I am processing now. I hadn't thought about it for years,

now it seems it is all I can think about. I am angry about it, and

angry at NADA for allowing it to happen. Last night I asked my

self " why am i thinking about it now? Years went by and it didn't

bother me " . The difference for me now is I have finally allowed

myself to be angry at my NADA with no excuses, no taking up for her

anymore. So Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a

lot of old feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has

anyone else had an experience like this?

>

> " Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads &

tampons, I

> was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those

elastic

> belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early

80s. "

>

> I had to laugh when I read this.Here I was thinking I must have

been

> the only girl in the United States who was wearing one of those

> things.I got my first period in '79,in sixth grade.Even though

nada

> never used it herself,she must have saved her old elastic belt

from

> circa 1959 or something and was adamant that I wear it along with

> those huge pads,god knows where she got them.I never thought that

> they must have been " postpartum pads " ! It was like she couldn't

move

> with the times or adjust herself or she didn't have the

imagination

> to do things any way other than how it had been decades earlier

when

> SHE had had her first period.

>

> Those pads were so bulky,I couldn't forget for one moment that I

had

> my period.And I was always afraid that if I stretched too high or

> jumped too high,the clips would snap off and I'd have a disaster

on

> my hands.I was also sure that the outline of the pad could be seen

> through my pants or jeans and that EVERYBODY knew I had my

> period.Even more self-consciousness to add to my pretty typical

pre-

> teen body insecurity.I no longer wore skirts at all,which would

have

> been the only way to somewhat disguise the bulk of the pads

because

> my sixth grade (male) teacher was a pervert who was molesting

> me.That's such a long,convoluted story--if I start writing that

> down,my post is going to be tooo looong...Nada had given me a note

to

> give to this " teacher " when I first got my period and I gave it to

> him,having no idea that nada had actually written him a letter

saying

> basically, " I think I know why is giving you so much

> trouble.She's just had her first period and I think it must be

> affecting her moods " ...I was giving him " so much trouble " because

he

> was an effing pervert and I didn't want to put up with his

> shit.Nobody believed my allegations--neither nada nor fada nor the

> principal.I was being blamed for it by everyone I went to for help

> and at this point in the school year (the winter) the teacher was

> having a field day with me.He read that letter from nada ALOUD to

the

> entire class and all the boys laughed.He was a sadist.I really

wanted

> to believe that once I told nada and fada that he had READ that

> letter out loud,that they would finally understand that I was

telling

> the truth and they would react like any " normal " parent would: 'He

> did WHAT!!!! " The only reason why a grown man would read such a

> letter aloud to the entire class would be to humiliate the female

> student,right?

>

> Unfortunately,I got NO reaction from either of them.I really felt

> like I just couldn't face going back to school the next day and

being

> 12 years old,I though that I just " wanted to die " .I found some

Valium

> in my mother's medicine cabinet and took three before I changed my

> mind and panicked.I tried to throw the Valium back up to no

> avail.So,I went to nada and told her that I had taken three of her

> Valium because I had wanted to die rather than go back to school

and

> face " the pervert " again (thinking in vain that if I continued

using

> the strongest possible terms to describe him that eventually

they'd

> listen to me).She had no reaction.

>

> I tried again.I tried abasing myself since she usually liked

that.I

> told her that I had done something " really stupid " and now I was

> scared--what were we going to do? Would the Valium make me really

> sick? Was I going to pass out? Did we need to go to the Emergency

> Room at the hospital?

>

> She said,and I quote, " Good.Go ahead and take the rest of the

> bottle.We'll drop your body off at the morgue in the morning. "

>

> I did go to school the next day.After stuffing down lots of bread

> and milk the night before like you're supposed to do if you've

been

> poisoned! Or so I thought I'd read somewhere.And forcing myself to

> stay awake by listening to the radio in my room.That night,I heard

> Gil Heron's song " The Revolution Will Not Be Televised " for

the

> first time and I had a revelation.That song is all about taking

back

> your power and getting serious about fighting for your rights.I

> thought,That's it! He declared war on me by reading that

letter.This

> is war! This is revolution!...The next day,I started to fight back

> and that is what I did for the rest of that school year,not

learning

> and studying,but making his life a living hell.The most important

> lesson I learned that year is that revenge in NEVER enough.One act

of

> revenge created its own impetus for wanting more-and more-and I

> realized that even if I killed him,I'd never be satisfied.I stole

his

> big stapler one day and whizzed it past his head in the middle of

a

> lesson when he was least expecting it,carefully aiming it to go

past

> him but not hit him.The look of fear in his eyes only enraged me

even

> more--it made me really want to kill him;it was horrible to know

that

> I had it in me to actually feel that way towards another human

> being,even him.The stapler put a long crack and a hole in the

> chalkboard behind him.I reminded him that it could have been his

> skull (seeing my OWN life sort of flash before me-how close had I

> truly come to killing him?!).He told me that he was going to

> call " the police " and I told him to go right ahead: I WANTED VERY

> MUCH to tell the police ALL about him.He backed down.As far as I

> could tell,he never mentioned the damage to the chalkboard to

> anyone.I have no idea what he told the principal,if anything.I

felt

> like I had lowered myself to his level and by the end of that

school

> year,I felt like I had plumbed the depths of my own capacity for

> baseness and resolved to never sink that low ever again because it

> only blackened my character as much as the person who was doing me

> wrong.Revenge doesn't right a wrong--only justice can do that.And

> when there is no justice to be had,the existential choice is

yours:

> rise above it and live through your own integrity,making the

> conscious choice to be better than what you have endured--or let

the

> swine pull you down into their swill with them and stay there with

> mud in your eyes.

>

> As for the elastic belt and the huge pads--I had so much of

another

> battle going on,I let that one go. Given the " choice " between

wearing

> pants with the pads and feeling exposed and wearing a skirt with

the

> pads and feeling even more exposed,I wore pants.

>

> That summer I went to a church camp with my best friend and got

my

> period while I was there.I hadn't packed the belt.The nurse at the

> church summer camp only had tampons! And they worked just fine-

nada

> was full of shit that I was " too young " to use tampons.When I got

> home,I discarded that awful belt and just used nada's tampons and

> ignored her dire warnings that I " shouldn't " be doing that.She

whined

> that I didn't " listen " to her and that I acted like I

didn't " need "

> her,but after all the crap I'd gone through that year with NO help

> from her,I no longer cared one bit what she thought about the

subject

> of " periods " .She told me I'd get " sick " from the tampons and I

told

> her that was fine,I'd just have to drop dead,then.Hadn't she said

> that to me herself,that I should kill myself and she'd drop my

body

> off at the morgue?

>

> Oh,no,no,she said,I NEVER said anything like that.You're

crazy.I'd

> NEVER say anything like that.

>

> One of the most horrifying,traumatic moments of my life so far

and

> she claimed to not even remember it.If she was going to play that

> game,hell,I'd use whatever I damned well wanted to use.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Wow christine. you and I have something in common. Both of us were

> victims of molestation, told our NADA's, and niether of our NADA's

> did ANYTHING about it. By their lack of concern of the situation,

> they allowed it to happen.

>

> It seems like you rebeled against your abusers behavior. This is

> something I wasn't able to do. I wish I had the courage to do that

> back then, maybe things would have turned out different. or maybe

> worse, i don't know. The sexual abuse I experienced is only

> something I am processing now. I hadn't thought about it for

years,

> now it seems it is all I can think about. I am angry about it, and

> angry at NADA for allowing it to happen. Last night I asked my

> self " why am i thinking about it now? Years went by and it didn't

> bother me " . The difference for me now is I have finally allowed

> myself to be angry at my NADA with no excuses, no taking up for

her

> anymore. So Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a

> lot of old feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has

> anyone else had an experience like this?

>

Yes, even as I type. I was never sexually molested but was

subjected to endless mind games: denial of my individuality, denial

of facts, manipulation of facts, outright lies, etc. It was only

recently when I realized they were playing those same games with my

kids that the anger came up. It is blinding and all-consuming at

times. One of the worst parts for me is that I want to tell them

why I'm so angry, I really want to make them see why you don't do

that to people, but I know that if I do I'll only give them more

ammunition to turn back at me as evidence I'm a f***ed up individual

and so the problem's really mine. I'm trying to come to terms with

the fact that I'll never be able to make my point.

[Guest guest]

How awful! I'm sorry you were treated that way.

For some reason, shaving my legs was generally scowled upon by both my

parents. When I asked for a razor, my nada let me use the single razor

they shaved my dad with when he was in the hospital for surgery.

Naturally, I cut my leg on that one pretty badly, had a nasty scar for

several months. After that I just bought my own disposable razors at

the drug store. It was weird... it was like I could shave and they

wouldn't say anything about it, but they preferred to pretend not to

know about it or purchase supplies for me.

Face soap was a big deal too. My dad bought me Neutrogena at my

request but always complained about the price. I had to put in a

special request to my dad for deodorant too, and there were complaints

about the price of that item as well. It was like I was expected not

to have adult hygienic needs, and that having these needs was some

sort of burden on the family budget.

qwerty

>

> Wow ! My experience was really similar to yours!! I was too

> skinny, had poofy, uncontrollable hair, I was completely nerdy, and

> I'm a brunette so I had dark hair everywhere! It was a battle to

> convince them to let me shave b/c it was yet another reason for the

> rest of the class to make fun of me! Like you, I'm in the desert so

> we have to wear shorts about what, like nine months out of the

> year?? I was finally allowed to Nair to the knee too! Until I

> burnt my legs so bad with it that I couldn't walk for two days and

> they finally let me have an electric shaver.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Now that you mention it...

I don't remember my parents ever buying me personal hygeine

products, be it face soap, feminine hygeine stuff, shampoo, razors,

cosmetics, etc. once I hit adolescence. I bought it all myself,

with my own money. It didn't strike me as problematic at the time,

probably because it beat the crap out of trying to discuss it with

my parents. I think by that time it was ingrained in me that if I

wanted any say in any of that stuff, I'd have to buy it myself. And

it wasn't a matter of Clinique vs. Loreal. I always used Suave and

the like. But now that you bring it up, and thinking about my own

daughter who will be reaching that age soon, it seems quite unfair

to make her pay for all of her own personal hygiene products, unless

she's gunning for some really high-end products that I can't

afford. Wierd...

It's kind of like how nada would NEVER stoop to do certain things,

but they were fine for me to do. Example: we're at a park and I

have to pee. Nada sends me off to find a place to squat in the

bushes. But if she has to pee, it's time to leave. So she could

buy herself Estee Lauder face creams and the like, but God forbid

I'd ask for anything more than a bar of Dial soap.

>

> How awful! I'm sorry you were treated that way.

>

> For some reason, shaving my legs was generally scowled upon by

both my

> parents. When I asked for a razor, my nada let me use the single

razor

> they shaved my dad with when he was in the hospital for surgery.

> Naturally, I cut my leg on that one pretty badly, had a nasty scar

for

> several months. After that I just bought my own disposable razors

at

> the drug store. It was weird... it was like I could shave and they

> wouldn't say anything about it, but they preferred to pretend not

to

> know about it or purchase supplies for me.

>

> Face soap was a big deal too. My dad bought me Neutrogena at my

> request but always complained about the price. I had to put in a

> special request to my dad for deodorant too, and there were

complaints

> about the price of that item as well. It was like I was expected

not

> to have adult hygienic needs, and that having these needs was some

> sort of burden on the family budget.

>

> qwerty

[Guest guest]

Hi again,Sara Jo.I did have an experience of being " flooded " by old

feelings when I first allowed myself to think about my own memories

of abuse.I had put a total mental block on my childhood--it was a

huge blank,just NOTHING,a black out.When I was about 22,I began to

remember some things and once I started,it all started coming up in

floods.It was pretty overwhelming.I felt like I was going to go

crazy.I read on yet another site online that it's actually " normal "

to feel like you're going crazy when memories of abuse come to the

surface.I wish my therapist had told me that! It would have spared so

much anxiety and self blame.I did go to therapy at the time to help

me deal with the abuse in my childhood.I felt so keyed up and upset

and overwhelmed,I asked my therapist what my diagnosis was and when

she told me that I didn't warrant a " diagnosis " and that I was ok,I

didn't believe her!!!

As for the rebelling,it didn't help much.It certainly got me into

ALOT of trouble.I was in a no-win situation: if I did nothing,the

abuse would continue and if I fought back,I'd be pegged as

the " problem " and doubly blamed for it,which is what happened.Both of

us needed an adult to intervene on our behalf and both of us were

totally let down.I don't think it's EVER the child's responsibility

to make sexual abuse stop.I don't think that any child can even do

that.I know that if any child even hinted to me that they were being

molested in any way,I'd be on the phone to Social Services and the

police and I wouldn't shut up until something was done about it.I did

want so much to call the police when the abuse was actually

occuring,but I figured they'd hear a kid's voice and just hang up on

me,thinking I was a prank.

You're absolutely right,it's their lack of concern that allowed the

situation to happen.I think it's great that you're no longer making

excuses for your nada and that you're angry with her.You're headed in

the right direction,you really are.I know how tricky the molestation

issues are--I'm here as we all are if you need to vent.

{{{Hugs}}}

>

> Wow christine. you and I have something in common. Both of us were

> victims of molestation, told our NADA's, and niether of our NADA's

> did ANYTHING about it. By their lack of concern of the situation,

> they allowed it to happen.

>

> It seems like you rebeled against your abusers behavior. This is

> something I wasn't able to do. I wish I had the courage to do that

> back then, maybe things would have turned out different. or maybe

> worse, i don't know. The sexual abuse I experienced is only

> something I am processing now. I hadn't thought about it for years,

> now it seems it is all I can think about. I am angry about it, and

> angry at NADA for allowing it to happen. Last night I asked my

> self " why am i thinking about it now? Years went by and it didn't

> bother me " . The difference for me now is I have finally allowed

> myself to be angry at my NADA with no excuses, no taking up for her

> anymore. So Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a

> lot of old feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has

> anyone else had an experience like this?

[Guest guest]

Yes, Sara Jo, I've been feeling very angry at my fada lately, after years and

years have passed since the abuse. It came to a head when I learned that he had

molested my daughter when she was about 4 years old - - she just remembered that

last month and she's in her 30's. It made me furious with him and yet I can't

confront him. At 87 he would deny such a thing and I have no proof, other than

just her recovered memory of it. It feels like it is boiling inside of me, and

I strongly suspect that I was molested, too, although I have no conscious memory

of it. I only know that I've been angry at him for his mental and psychological

abuse for a very long time. I have been LC with him for a couple of months now,

which helps some. But the anger feels like it's stuck in my body! I'm

exercising and going for walks to try to drain it out. Talk therapy just

doesn't seem to do the job for me right now. Any suggestions from anyone??

AZClown

Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's

inappropriate sexualizing

Wow christine. you and I have something in common. Both of us were

victims of molestation, told our NADA's, and niether of our NADA's

did ANYTHING about it. By their lack of concern of the situation,

they allowed it to happen.

It seems like you rebeled against your abusers behavior. This is

something I wasn't able to do. I wish I had the courage to do that

back then, maybe things would have turned out different. or maybe

worse, i don't know. The sexual abuse I experienced is only

something I am processing now. I hadn't thought about it for years,

now it seems it is all I can think about. I am angry about it, and

angry at NADA for allowing it to happen. Last night I asked my

self " why am i thinking about it now? Years went by and it didn't

bother me " . The difference for me now is I have finally allowed

myself to be angry at my NADA with no excuses, no taking up for her

anymore. So Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a

lot of old feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has

anyone else had an experience like this?

>

> " Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads &

tampons, I

> was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those

elastic

> belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early

80s. "

>

> I had to laugh when I read this.Here I was thinking I must have

been

> the only girl in the United States who was wearing one of those

> things.I got my first period in '79,in sixth grade.Even though

nada

> never used it herself,she must have saved her old elastic belt

from

> circa 1959 or something and was adamant that I wear it along with

> those huge pads,god knows where she got them.I never thought that

> they must have been " postpartum pads " ! It was like she couldn't

move

> with the times or adjust herself or she didn't have the

imagination

> to do things any way other than how it had been decades earlier

when

> SHE had had her first period.

>

> Those pads were so bulky,I couldn't forget for one moment that I

had

> my period.And I was always afraid that if I stretched too high or

> jumped too high,the clips would snap off and I'd have a disaster

on

> my hands.I was also sure that the outline of the pad could be seen

> through my pants or jeans and that EVERYBODY knew I had my

> period.Even more self-consciousness to add to my pretty typical

pre-

> teen body insecurity.I no longer wore skirts at all,which would

have

> been the only way to somewhat disguise the bulk of the pads

because

> my sixth grade (male) teacher was a pervert who was molesting

> me.That's such a long,convoluted story--if I start writing that

> down,my post is going to be tooo looong...Nada had given me a note

to

> give to this " teacher " when I first got my period and I gave it to

> him,having no idea that nada had actually written him a letter

saying

> basically, " I think I know why is giving you so much

> trouble.She' s just had her first period and I think it must be

> affecting her moods " ...I was giving him " so much trouble " because

he

> was an effing pervert and I didn't want to put up with his

> shit.Nobody believed my allegations- -neither nada nor fada nor the

> principal.I was being blamed for it by everyone I went to for help

> and at this point in the school year (the winter) the teacher was

> having a field day with me.He read that letter from nada ALOUD to

the

> entire class and all the boys laughed.He was a sadist.I really

wanted

> to believe that once I told nada and fada that he had READ that

> letter out loud,that they would finally understand that I was

telling

> the truth and they would react like any " normal " parent would: 'He

> did WHAT!!!! " The only reason why a grown man would read such a

> letter aloud to the entire class would be to humiliate the female

> student,right?

>

> Unfortunately, I got NO reaction from either of them.I really felt

> like I just couldn't face going back to school the next day and

being

> 12 years old,I though that I just " wanted to die " .I found some

Valium

> in my mother's medicine cabinet and took three before I changed my

> mind and panicked.I tried to throw the Valium back up to no

> avail.So,I went to nada and told her that I had taken three of her

> Valium because I had wanted to die rather than go back to school

and

> face " the pervert " again (thinking in vain that if I continued

using

> the strongest possible terms to describe him that eventually

they'd

> listen to me).She had no reaction.

>

> I tried again.I tried abasing myself since she usually liked

that.I

> told her that I had done something " really stupid " and now I was

> scared--what were we going to do? Would the Valium make me really

> sick? Was I going to pass out? Did we need to go to the Emergency

> Room at the hospital?

>

> She said,and I quote, " Good.Go ahead and take the rest of the

> bottle.We'll drop your body off at the morgue in the morning. "

>

> I did go to school the next day.After stuffing down lots of bread

> and milk the night before like you're supposed to do if you've

been

> poisoned! Or so I thought I'd read somewhere.And forcing myself to

> stay awake by listening to the radio in my room.That night,I heard

> Gil Heron's song " The Revolution Will Not Be Televised " for

the

> first time and I had a revelation.That song is all about taking

back

> your power and getting serious about fighting for your rights.I

> thought,That' s it! He declared war on me by reading that

letter.This

> is war! This is revolution!. ...The next day,I started to fight back

> and that is what I did for the rest of that school year,not

learning

> and studying,but making his life a living hell.The most important

> lesson I learned that year is that revenge in NEVER enough.One act

of

> revenge created its own impetus for wanting more-and more-and I

> realized that even if I killed him,I'd never be satisfied.I stole

his

> big stapler one day and whizzed it past his head in the middle of

a

> lesson when he was least expecting it,carefully aiming it to go

past

> him but not hit him.The look of fear in his eyes only enraged me

even

> more--it made me really want to kill him;it was horrible to know

that

> I had it in me to actually feel that way towards another human

> being,even him.The stapler put a long crack and a hole in the

> chalkboard behind him.I reminded him that it could have been his

> skull (seeing my OWN life sort of flash before me-how close had I

> truly come to killing him?!).He told me that he was going to

> call " the police " and I told him to go right ahead: I WANTED VERY

> MUCH to tell the police ALL about him.He backed down.As far as I

> could tell,he never mentioned the damage to the chalkboard to

> anyone.I have no idea what he told the principal,if anything.I

felt

> like I had lowered myself to his level and by the end of that

school

> year,I felt like I had plumbed the depths of my own capacity for

> baseness and resolved to never sink that low ever again because it

> only blackened my character as much as the person who was doing me

> wrong.Revenge doesn't right a wrong--only justice can do that.And

> when there is no justice to be had,the existential choice is

yours:

> rise above it and live through your own integrity,making the

> conscious choice to be better than what you have endured--or let

the

> swine pull you down into their swill with them and stay there with

> mud in your eyes.

>

> As for the elastic belt and the huge pads--I had so much of

another

> battle going on,I let that one go. Given the " choice " between

wearing

> pants with the pads and feeling exposed and wearing a skirt with

the

> pads and feeling even more exposed,I wore pants.

>

> That summer I went to a church camp with my best friend and got

my

> period while I was there.I hadn't packed the belt.The nurse at the

> church summer camp only had tampons! And they worked just fine-

nada

> was full of shit that I was " too young " to use tampons.When I got

> home,I discarded that awful belt and just used nada's tampons and

> ignored her dire warnings that I " shouldn't " be doing that.She

whined

> that I didn't " listen " to her and that I acted like I

didn't " need "

> her,but after all the crap I'd gone through that year with NO help

> from her,I no longer cared one bit what she thought about the

subject

> of " periods " .She told me I'd get " sick " from the tampons and I

told

> her that was fine,I'd just have to drop dead,then.Hadn' t she said

> that to me herself,that I should kill myself and she'd drop my

body

> off at the morgue?

>

> Oh,no,no,she said,I NEVER said anything like that.You're

crazy.I'd

> NEVER say anything like that.

>

> One of the most horrifying,traumati c moments of my life so far

and

> she claimed to not even remember it.If she was going to play that

> game,hell,I' d use whatever I damned well wanted to use.

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

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[Guest guest]

Sara Jo,

I don't think it is that you weren't bother by this for all those

years, but rather, you had supressed it for all those years, not

being able to understand how you were betrayed by your nada. Now

you are ready to look at the reality of the situation, and you are

strong enough to deal with it. As painful as this is, it is really

a good thing. The more we see and learn to accept the truth of our

lives, the more we will be able to live the lives we want, to be our

own person. We leave the nada pleasing behind and learn how to

please ourselves.

Sylvia

>

> .... The sexual abuse I experienced is only

> something I am processing now. I hadn't thought about it for

years,

> now it seems it is all I can think about. I am angry about it, and

> angry at NADA for allowing it to happen. Last night I asked my

> self " why am i thinking about it now? Years went by and it didn't

> bother me " . The difference for me now is I have finally allowed

> myself to be angry at my NADA with no excuses, no taking up for

her

> anymore. So Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a

> lot of old feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has

> anyone else had an experience like this?

>

> .....

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo, you asked

>>>Now that i've allowed myself to have these feelings, a lot of old

feelings that ive denied are just flooding into me. Has anyone else

had an experience like this?

The answer is Yes. You & I are both fairly new to NC, so I wonder if

we're in the same phase of healing perhaps? Being out of Nada's web

is definitely bringing up a lot of old, bad stuff that I have not

thought about in 15 years or more. While reading & posting to the

group is therapeutic, it also can be emotionally tiring & sometimes

overwhelming to remember so much at once. I'm waiting for my copy of

Surviving the Borderline Parent to arrive & hoping it will provide

some insight into these feelings (more sadness than anger) and what

to do now that I've upchucked my childhood all over myself.

I also find myself wanting to go NC with my dad on principle. He

knew the things she did to me & bro & let it all happen with little

comment and even less intervention. Then, fully aware of how

freaking crazy she was, he left and of course it got worse. His

leaving & the attendant fallout is the central fact of my teenage

years and, having left when bro was just 9, THE central fact of bro's

life. Dad never saw him again & only has a relationship with me

because I pursued it. But he still acts like he was some sort of hero

for making us " tough " .

[Guest guest]

i don't really know why this is suddenly bothering me. it's not like

my mom has suddenly changed. in fact, she's maybe gotten a little

better. i think that maybe working with 7th graders has started

stirring this up. some of the kids ask me to assign them detention so

they don't have to go home at night. YEESH! poor kids! i tell them

to go to the library or join a club or just stay for tutorials. the

thing about it is that i don't really feel injured and i don't feel

angry. i don't really even feel betrayed. i am just thinking about

this a lot. my parents are divorced and once there was only 1 adult

in the household, my mom went absolutely bonkers on me (it's ironic

because she tells dad that she left him because he was mean to us

kids. whatEVER). now my dad is finding out about some of the stuff

that happened and i think he feels really guilty because he didn't

know. i have to say, though, that i didn't tell him more of what was

going on at the time because i thought mom was crazy enough to allege

that he sexually molested us (she accused me of molesting my kid

sister and ALSO accused dad of the same thing in private) and she's

such a drama queen that i thought she might be able to pull this off

in court, even with us kids saying we were never molested. seriously,

it was crazy.

the thing is that my dad is very angry. he is 53 and he's pissed that

his marriage fell apart and his kids were screwed over and he's middle

aged with no pension and no zest for life. HIS dad picked my dad out

of 13 kids to beat up on and i don't think my dad's all the way over

that, either. it's completely unfocused anger, but at the same time,

he's just like me in the sense that he's usually very calm and logical

and the anger only comes out when he's arguing about something he

cares about (or driving...can you say " road rage? " ).

so i guess i'm worried about my dad, too. he's a freaking awesome dad

who actually seems interested in my life! YAY! i just don't want to

suddenly realize that i'm 40 and pissed off. if i'm going to get

angry, i'd rather it happen sooner than later.

but the thing is that i don't think i would really benefit from

getting angry and talking about this to my mom. every time i've tried

it before, she just turns into this pathetic-giant-toddler blob who

cries about trying her hardest and being a worthless person. it's

just pathetic and i don't think i can derive anything from this except

for the fact that i have clearly surpassed my mom as a human. but eh.

i already know this.

is anger necessary to get over this?

bink

>

> Yes, Sara Jo, I've been feeling very angry at my fada lately, after

years and years have passed since the abuse. It came to a head when I

learned that he had molested my daughter when she was about 4 years

old - - she just remembered that last month and she's in her 30's. It

made me furious with him and yet I can't confront him. At 87 he would

deny such a thing and I have no proof, other than just her recovered

memory of it. It feels like it is boiling inside of me, and I

strongly suspect that I was molested, too, although I have no

conscious memory of it. I only know that I've been angry at him for

his mental and psychological abuse for a very long time. I have been

LC with him for a couple of months now, which helps some. But the

anger feels like it's stuck in my body! I'm exercising and going for

walks to try to drain it out. Talk therapy just doesn't seem to do

the job for me right now. Any suggestions from anyone??

> AZClown

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bink,

Don't worry about not feeling angry. It sounds like you've dealt with that part

already. I think the anger comes up when we have repressed it and haven't dealt

with it yet. We've tried to pretend everything was o.k.. -- or maybe they

convinced us it was o.k. and we believed them. Then when the lid comes off that

illusion, the anger surfaces. Sounds like you weren't ever under an illusion.

So maybe you don't have much suppressed anger.. If you do, don't worry, it will

come up - so just watch and if you see yourself getting angry over

inconsequential things or inappropriately, then you can look for the root cause.

Road rage is rarely, or never, over what is actually happening -- it's over

something that happened years before that was unfair. At least that's what I

believe.

AZClown

Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's

inappropriate sexualizing

i don't really know why this is suddenly bothering me. it's not like

my mom has suddenly changed. in fact, she's maybe gotten a little

better. i think that maybe working with 7th graders has started

stirring this up. some of the kids ask me to assign them detention so

they don't have to go home at night. YEESH! poor kids! i tell them

to go to the library or join a club or just stay for tutorials. the

thing about it is that i don't really feel injured and i don't feel

angry. i don't really even feel betrayed. i am just thinking about

this a lot. my parents are divorced and once there was only 1 adult

in the household, my mom went absolutely bonkers on me (it's ironic

because she tells dad that she left him because he was mean to us

kids. whatEVER). now my dad is finding out about some of the stuff

that happened and i think he feels really guilty because he didn't

know. i have to say, though, that i didn't tell him more of what was

going on at the time because i thought mom was crazy enough to allege

that he sexually molested us (she accused me of molesting my kid

sister and ALSO accused dad of the same thing in private) and she's

such a drama queen that i thought she might be able to pull this off

in court, even with us kids saying we were never molested. seriously,

it was crazy.

the thing is that my dad is very angry. he is 53 and he's pissed that

his marriage fell apart and his kids were screwed over and he's middle

aged with no pension and no zest for life. HIS dad picked my dad out

of 13 kids to beat up on and i don't think my dad's all the way over

that, either. it's completely unfocused anger, but at the same time,

he's just like me in the sense that he's usually very calm and logical

and the anger only comes out when he's arguing about something he

cares about (or driving...can you say " road rage? " ).

so i guess i'm worried about my dad, too. he's a freaking awesome dad

who actually seems interested in my life! YAY! i just don't want to

suddenly realize that i'm 40 and pissed off. if i'm going to get

angry, i'd rather it happen sooner than later.

but the thing is that i don't think i would really benefit from

getting angry and talking about this to my mom. every time i've tried

it before, she just turns into this pathetic-giant- toddler blob who

cries about trying her hardest and being a worthless person. it's

just pathetic and i don't think i can derive anything from this except

for the fact that i have clearly surpassed my mom as a human. but eh.

i already know this.

is anger necessary to get over this?

bink

>

> Yes, Sara Jo, I've been feeling very angry at my fada lately, after

years and years have passed since the abuse. It came to a head when I

learned that he had molested my daughter when she was about 4 years

old - - she just remembered that last month and she's in her 30's. It

made me furious with him and yet I can't confront him. At 87 he would

deny such a thing and I have no proof, other than just her recovered

memory of it. It feels like it is boiling inside of me, and I

strongly suspect that I was molested, too, although I have no

conscious memory of it. I only know that I've been angry at him for

his mental and psychological abuse for a very long time. I have been

LC with him for a couple of months now, which helps some. But the

anger feels like it's stuck in my body! I'm exercising and going for

walks to try to drain it out. Talk therapy just doesn't seem to do

the job for me right now. Any suggestions from anyone??

> AZClown

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

[Guest guest]

it seems like i'm the only person who can talk people out of road

rage. i just calmly say, " (dad)...now, do you think that person

actually cares about you? and do you think they cut you off because

they purposely wanted to harm you? doesn't that sound a bit

megalomaniacal? let's all just try to attain the buddha-like nature

within us all and calmly get to (wherever we're going). " that

generally gets him enough distance to calm down and be reasonable

again. also, i guess the screaming at other people isn't such a big

deal to me...much better than getting screamed at personally. i am

scary when there's open conflict happening because it simply does not

bother me. other people will be cowering in fear and i'll be in my

element and setting everything right again. (now THAT is a little

creepy.) and generally, the conflict is happening with otherwise

rational people, so what gets set right usually stays that way. i

just don't want to orchestrate the chaos. i don't like it, i can just

cope better than others. i've got my husband on a " mom watch " with

strict orders to alert me if i am showing signs of mom-ish behavior.

seriously.

my mom was really a good mom when we were little. of course, she

treated my dad like a complete jerk all the time. i used to think

that after the divorce, she suddenly changed, but now i'm beginning to

see that she just switched from dad to me. i don't know why she

didn't just get puppies instead of having kids. i feel like i've been

raised by a completely irresponsible older sister...who happens to be

a little crazy.

bink

> >

> > Yes, Sara Jo, I've been feeling very angry at my fada lately, after

> years and years have passed since the abuse. It came to a head when I

> learned that he had molested my daughter when she was about 4 years

> old - - she just remembered that last month and she's in her 30's. It

> made me furious with him and yet I can't confront him. At 87 he would

> deny such a thing and I have no proof, other than just her recovered

> memory of it. It feels like it is boiling inside of me, and I

> strongly suspect that I was molested, too, although I have no

> conscious memory of it. I only know that I've been angry at him for

> his mental and psychological abuse for a very long time. I have been

> LC with him for a couple of months now, which helps some. But the

> anger feels like it's stuck in my body! I'm exercising and going for

> walks to try to drain it out. Talk therapy just doesn't seem to do

> the job for me right now. Any suggestions from anyone??

> > AZClown

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,AZClown.You asked for suggestions for anger that feels like it's

stuck in your body.Although I haven't tried it myself,a friend of

mine does " Breathwork " to release the masses of anger that are

trapped in her body from her abusive childhood.She finds this method

very effective for accessing and processing anger she would otherwise

continue to hold in her body.I've included a link below to a site

that describes what Breathwork is--there is also a list of other

therapies with links to descriptions on the lefthand side.It's an

Australian site but we're in the States and I know there are

Breathwork practioners here,too.

http://asca.org.au/survivors/survivors_alternative_breathwork.html

_____________________________________________________________

_______________________

> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.

> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've just read christine depizam's (i hope i've spelt that right!)

message re: those horrible post-partum pads! My mum used to make me

wear them too! She also made me wear horrible bras (I was always big-

busted and I had to wear " construction jobs " !)

Another thing she used to do when I had my period was ask how much

was on the pad - she wanted every detail. I stopped answering her

after a while.

She also sexualised things inappropriately. I have been NC from her

for over a year now but she has always flirted with my partner and

when she was on a psychiatric ward last year, staff commented on how

embarrassed and uncomfortable it used to make them feel when he

visited her.

I've said this before on this site but she used to touch my breasts

and crotch area and when I protested she used to dismiss it and

say " we're mother and daughter, it doesn't matter " .

In response to friends of cam's question re us being easy prey to

predators, i agree. We're used to being taken advantage of, and

because our parents behaved inappropriately we don't always realise

what's happening to us straightaway.

-

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " friendsofcam "

wrote:

>

> I wonder if victims of BPD's are easier prey to predators?

Because,

> it seems like we have low self esteem, and several of the traits a

> predator would prey on from the emotional abuse in our homes. And

> our BPD parents are not protective at all. I remember a

terrifying

> experience I had and was attacked also. When I tried to tell my

mom

> asking her what to do... " Should I go to the police? " I should have

> been taken immediately to the hospital for evidence and help. But,

> my mom just hushed me as if ignoring it would go away, " Shhh,

don't

> talk about that to anyone. " That was her answer and I never

recieved

> the emotional help I needed either. Those memories have come back

to

> haunt on several occasions. I'm wanting to just rid myself of the

> bad and keep the good memories alive. But, it seems there is a

point

> when you have to go back and work through the emotions. There is

so

> much cruelty in this world.

>

>

>

> > >

> > > " Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads &

> > tampons, I

> > > was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those

> > elastic

> > > belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early

> > 80s. "

> > >

> > > I had to laugh when I read this.Here I was thinking I must

have

> > been

> > > the only girl in the United States who was wearing one of those

> > > things.I got my first period in '79,in sixth grade.Even though

> > nada

> > > never used it herself,she must have saved her old elastic belt

> > from

> > > circa 1959 or something and was adamant that I wear it along

with

> > > those huge pads,god knows where she got them.I never thought

that

> > > they must have been " postpartum pads " ! It was like she couldn't

> > move

> > > with the times or adjust herself or she didn't have the

> > imagination

> > > to do things any way other than how it had been decades earlier

> > when

> > > SHE had had her first period.

> > >

> > > Those pads were so bulky,I couldn't forget for one moment that

I

> > had

> > > my period.And I was always afraid that if I stretched too high

or

> > > jumped too high,the clips would snap off and I'd have a

disaster

> > on

> > > my hands.I was also sure that the outline of the pad could be

> seen

> > > through my pants or jeans and that EVERYBODY knew I had my

> > > period.Even more self-consciousness to add to my pretty typical

> > pre-

> > > teen body insecurity.I no longer wore skirts at all,which would

> > have

> > > been the only way to somewhat disguise the bulk of the pads

> > because

> > > my sixth grade (male) teacher was a pervert who was molesting

> > > me.That's such a long,convoluted story--if I start writing that

> > > down,my post is going to be tooo looong...Nada had given me a

> note

> > to

> > > give to this " teacher " when I first got my period and I gave it

> to

> > > him,having no idea that nada had actually written him a letter

> > saying

> > > basically, " I think I know why is giving you so much

> > > trouble.She's just had her first period and I think it must be

> > > affecting her moods " ...I was giving him " so much trouble "

because

> > he

> > > was an effing pervert and I didn't want to put up with his

> > > shit.Nobody believed my allegations--neither nada nor fada nor

> the

> > > principal.I was being blamed for it by everyone I went to for

> help

> > > and at this point in the school year (the winter) the teacher

was

> > > having a field day with me.He read that letter from nada ALOUD

to

> > the

> > > entire class and all the boys laughed.He was a sadist.I really

> > wanted

> > > to believe that once I told nada and fada that he had READ that

> > > letter out loud,that they would finally understand that I was

> > telling

> > > the truth and they would react like any " normal " parent

> would: 'He

> > > did WHAT!!!! " The only reason why a grown man would read such a

> > > letter aloud to the entire class would be to humiliate the

female

> > > student,right?

> > >

> > > Unfortunately,I got NO reaction from either of them.I really

> felt

> > > like I just couldn't face going back to school the next day and

> > being

> > > 12 years old,I though that I just " wanted to die " .I found some

> > Valium

> > > in my mother's medicine cabinet and took three before I changed

> my

> > > mind and panicked.I tried to throw the Valium back up to no

> > > avail.So,I went to nada and told her that I had taken three of

> her

> > > Valium because I had wanted to die rather than go back to

school

> > and

> > > face " the pervert " again (thinking in vain that if I continued

> > using

> > > the strongest possible terms to describe him that eventually

> > they'd

> > > listen to me).She had no reaction.

> > >

> > > I tried again.I tried abasing myself since she usually liked

> > that.I

> > > told her that I had done something " really stupid " and now I

was

> > > scared--what were we going to do? Would the Valium make me

really

> > > sick? Was I going to pass out? Did we need to go to the

Emergency

> > > Room at the hospital?

> > >

> > > She said,and I quote, " Good.Go ahead and take the rest of the

> > > bottle.We'll drop your body off at the morgue in the morning. "

> > >

> > > I did go to school the next day.After stuffing down lots of

> bread

> > > and milk the night before like you're supposed to do if you've

> > been

> > > poisoned! Or so I thought I'd read somewhere.And forcing myself

> to

> > > stay awake by listening to the radio in my room.That night,I

> heard

> > > Gil Heron's song " The Revolution Will Not Be Televised "

for

> > the

> > > first time and I had a revelation.That song is all about taking

> > back

> > > your power and getting serious about fighting for your rights.I

> > > thought,That's it! He declared war on me by reading that

> > letter.This

> > > is war! This is revolution!...The next day,I started to fight

> back

> > > and that is what I did for the rest of that school year,not

> > learning

> > > and studying,but making his life a living hell.The most

important

> > > lesson I learned that year is that revenge in NEVER enough.One

> act

> > of

> > > revenge created its own impetus for wanting more-and more-and I

> > > realized that even if I killed him,I'd never be satisfied.I

stole

> > his

> > > big stapler one day and whizzed it past his head in the middle

of

> > a

> > > lesson when he was least expecting it,carefully aiming it to go

> > past

> > > him but not hit him.The look of fear in his eyes only enraged

me

> > even

> > > more--it made me really want to kill him;it was horrible to

know

> > that

> > > I had it in me to actually feel that way towards another human

> > > being,even him.The stapler put a long crack and a hole in the

> > > chalkboard behind him.I reminded him that it could have been

his

> > > skull (seeing my OWN life sort of flash before me-how close had

I

> > > truly come to killing him?!).He told me that he was going to

> > > call " the police " and I told him to go right ahead: I WANTED

VERY

> > > MUCH to tell the police ALL about him.He backed down.As far as

I

> > > could tell,he never mentioned the damage to the chalkboard to

> > > anyone.I have no idea what he told the principal,if anything.I

> > felt

> > > like I had lowered myself to his level and by the end of that

> > school

> > > year,I felt like I had plumbed the depths of my own capacity

for

> > > baseness and resolved to never sink that low ever again because

> it

> > > only blackened my character as much as the person who was doing

> me

> > > wrong.Revenge doesn't right a wrong--only justice can do

that.And

> > > when there is no justice to be had,the existential choice is

> > yours:

> > > rise above it and live through your own integrity,making the

> > > conscious choice to be better than what you have endured--or

let

> > the

> > > swine pull you down into their swill with them and stay there

> with

> > > mud in your eyes.

> > >

> > > As for the elastic belt and the huge pads--I had so much of

> > another

> > > battle going on,I let that one go. Given the " choice " between

> > wearing

> > > pants with the pads and feeling exposed and wearing a skirt

with

> > the

> > > pads and feeling even more exposed,I wore pants.

> > >

> > > That summer I went to a church camp with my best friend and

got

> > my

> > > period while I was there.I hadn't packed the belt.The nurse at

> the

> > > church summer camp only had tampons! And they worked just fine-

> > nada

> > > was full of shit that I was " too young " to use tampons.When I

got

> > > home,I discarded that awful belt and just used nada's tampons

and

> > > ignored her dire warnings that I " shouldn't " be doing that.She

> > whined

> > > that I didn't " listen " to her and that I acted like I

> > didn't " need "

> > > her,but after all the crap I'd gone through that year with NO

> help

> > > from her,I no longer cared one bit what she thought about the

> > subject

> > > of " periods " .She told me I'd get " sick " from the tampons and I

> > told

> > > her that was fine,I'd just have to drop dead,then.Hadn't she

said

> > > that to me herself,that I should kill myself and she'd drop my

> > body

> > > off at the morgue?

> > >

> > > Oh,no,no,she said,I NEVER said anything like that.You're

> > crazy.I'd

> > > NEVER say anything like that.

> > >

> > > One of the most horrifying,traumatic moments of my life so far

> > and

> > > she claimed to not even remember it.If she was going to play

that

> > > game,hell,I'd use whatever I damned well wanted to use.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I absolutely think that we are because we are not sure of what reasonable

boundaries are.

I've lived with several really horrible roommates (and ironically usually got

kicked out of

the places where I did live with really horrible roommates...not sure why that

was) and

dated/been interested in some truly awful people. One was a master manipulator

who

tried to convince me that all of my friends saw me in certain ways (this was

when I lived

abroad so we shared almost exactly the same social circle). He wanted me to

think he was

the only one who ever talked the truth. And I bought this! Not to mention the

other ex

who heaped abuse on me when he was mad at himself (including calling me fat,

which I

still believe even though I exercise a lot, not unreasonable amounts, but a

lot).

I know a lot of us have talked about body image before, but I am still amazed as

to how

much this topic controls my life. Often I feel like because I did not have a

helpful role

model, I don't comprehend what happens to you as you get older and have no

reasonable

way of dealing with body image. Probably the fact that I haven't met anyone in

whom I am

interested since an abrupt and non-closure break-up in Jun 2006 isn't helping

either (and

he was one of the good ones, disturbingly enough).

is

>

> I wonder if victims of BPD's are easier prey to predators? Because,

> it seems like we have low self esteem, and several of the traits a

> predator would prey on from the emotional abuse in our homes. And

> our BPD parents are not protective at all. I remember a terrifying

> experience I had and was attacked also. When I tried to tell my mom

> asking her what to do... " Should I go to the police? " I should have

> been taken immediately to the hospital for evidence and help. But,

> my mom just hushed me as if ignoring it would go away, " Shhh, don't

> talk about that to anyone. " That was her answer and I never recieved

> the emotional help I needed either. Those memories have come back to

> haunt on several occasions. I'm wanting to just rid myself of the

> bad and keep the good memories alive. But, it seems there is a point

> when you have to go back and work through the emotions. There is so

> much cruelty in this world.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Friends of Cam,I'm very sorry you had this terrible experience.There

is a point where you have to go back and work through the

emotions.This does help to make them less overwhelming and allows the

good memories to have a firmer hold in the mind.

I agree with you that there is so much cruelty in this world.You

asked, " I wonder if victims of BPDs are easier prey to predators? "

In my own childhood,it was the predators who most clearly assessed

the situation I was in and not the " good " people who might have

intervened and helped.A sexual predator doesn't go after the children

of vigilant and protective parents--they choose their targets very

carefully.I was out spoken and didn't submit quietly,but they knew it

wouldn't matter because my parents weren't going to do anything about

it,anyway.It still amazes me that it was the sick people who knew

that my parents were sick and the supposedly " sane " people around us

didn't have a clue!

Having said that,the predator sniffs out the vulnerabilities in his

victim,whether it's low self esteem or social isolation or neglectful

parents or you name it.The victim is never to blame--she did not " do "

anything to " make " the abuse happen.

Take care,

>

> I wonder if victims of BPD's are easier prey to predators?

Because,

> it seems like we have low self esteem, and several of the traits a

> predator would prey on from the emotional abuse in our homes. And

> our BPD parents are not protective at all. I remember a

terrifying

> experience I had and was attacked also. When I tried to tell my

mom

> asking her what to do... " Should I go to the police? " I should have

> been taken immediately to the hospital for evidence and help. But,

> my mom just hushed me as if ignoring it would go away, " Shhh,

don't

> talk about that to anyone. " That was her answer and I never

recieved

> the emotional help I needed either. Those memories have come back

to

> haunt on several occasions. I'm wanting to just rid myself of the

> bad and keep the good memories alive. But, it seems there is a

point

> when you have to go back and work through the emotions. There is

so

> much cruelty in this world.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,Jeanie.Another KO who wore post-partum pads! I wonder how many of

us are out there?!

Your post is an excellent reminder of what it's essentially all

about: persistent,unending boundary violations.From your description

of her flirting with your partner,it sounds like she's still doing

it.I'm NC too with my family because they cannot change.

You wrote: " We're used to being taken advantage of,and because our

parents behaved inappropriately we don't always realise what's

happening to us straightaway. "

Yes,it makes it that much harder to gauge your own reactions when

the yardstick you are given to measure life by is inappropriate

behavior that takes advantage of you.Absolutely.

-

>

> I've just read christine depizam's (i hope i've spelt that right!)

> message re: those horrible post-partum pads! My mum used to make

me

> wear them too! She also made me wear horrible bras (I was always

big-

> busted and I had to wear " construction jobs " !)

>

> Another thing she used to do when I had my period was ask how much

> was on the pad - she wanted every detail. I stopped answering her

> after a while.

>

> She also sexualised things inappropriately. I have been NC from

her

> for over a year now but she has always flirted with my partner and

> when she was on a psychiatric ward last year, staff commented on

how

> embarrassed and uncomfortable it used to make them feel when he

> visited her.

>

> I've said this before on this site but she used to touch my breasts

> and crotch area and when I protested she used to dismiss it and

> say " we're mother and daughter, it doesn't matter " .

>

> In response to friends of cam's question re us being easy prey to

> predators, i agree. We're used to being taken advantage of, and

> because our parents behaved inappropriately we don't always realise

> what's happening to us straightaway.