Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's inappropriate sexualizing

[Guest guest]

Artwidow,thank you for sharing this:

" Related to what

> one of you said about your nada sexualizing things, my stepnada was

> just the same way! She started the sex talks with us at a very,

> very young age. Not that we needed them - the whole neighborhood

> could hear her screaming orgasms. Not just the two frightened 7 and

> 5 year olds in the next room. She also loved to parade around the

> house nude, and made us come to her and my father's bed to say

> goodnight, boobies all plopped out over the sheet. Until I was

> almost 20. "

Your post has helped me to finally see clearly what I have long

suspected about my nada,but didn't know how to accept.For all these

years,I have thought that she was just uniquely bizarre and I have been

too ashamed to tell anyone these things.Just knowing that I'm not

the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I think now

is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

enmeshment with me was assuming that I was also " sexual " ,therefore I

would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with me.I

did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's many

acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't know

where she left off and I began,even when I was just a little kid and

couldn't possibly have apprehended the nuances of her " sexuality " .She

seemed to revel in being the exhibitionist at my expense and to also

revel in having me be the voyeur,again with zero regard for the fact

that I was a CHILD.

Having to listen to her " screaming orgasms " as a small child must have

been very frightening for you.My nada didn't actually sleep with fada

because my little brother had severe asthma.The two of us slept in the

same room so I could be on " overnight duty " in case he had an asthma

attack.Outrageously,I slept through one of these one night when I was

five and he had to be rushed to the hospital.Nada was apoplectic with

rage-how could I be so selfish? so untrustworthy? so stupid?- and since

my brother was her little angel boy,from that night onward she slept on

the living room sofa so she would be near enough to our room to hear

any breathing distress.

So,bizarrely,this time coincides with her giving me my first " sex

talks " .All about how when two people feel a certain way about

eachother,they want to be " close " and then she tried to explain how

that works physically and which body parts are involved.I tuned her out

as best I could because the way she was talking to me didn't seem

right.Fada was sleeping in the master bedroom suite upstairs.After we

had this " little talk " ,she'd ANNOUNCE to me as she tucked me in when

she was going to " go upstairs to be with your father because we need to

be close " .Always with a very weird,conspiratorial smirk on her face and

she was practically radiating horniness,which made me want to smack her

or scream or throw up or something.She'd say, " If you need me for

anything tonight,you'll have to wait.Don't try to come upstairs.Don't

even knock on the door... " I did ask her what in the world was I

supposed to do if my brother had an asthma attack and she replied

angrily, " This is MY time with your father,you just stay

downstairs " ...Totally contradicting the extreme importance of keeping a

vigil over my brother.I didn't understand it at all then,but I see now

that this was just her thinking only of herself.I remember one night

when my brother sounded so wheezy,he woke me up and I went to their

bedroom door and stood there not knowing what to do.I could hear their

bed squeaking and the moaning.I got really pissed off and pounded on

the door and shouted, " Your son is having an asthma attack! " and they

were both really angry with me rushing at me pulling on bathrobes and

accused me of " bothering them on purpose. " Nada shook my brother awake

and when he responded,she yelled at me to get back in bed and stay

there.Both of them went right back upstairs.

And the walking around the house nude.My nada did that,too! Even once

my brother and I were teenagers.There was no reason for it.She just did

it because she got off on it.She especially seemed to enjoy knowing

that my brother couldn't resist looking at her naked.She'd even engage

him in conversation while she pranced around,forcing him to have to

look at her.Fada never said a word as a naked forty year old woman

waltzed into a fifteen year old boy's room and bantered with him.I

thought then and I still think now that her behavior was incestuous.I

KNOW that my paternal grandmother would never have done such a thing in

a million years,but fada always blindly accepted whatever nada did,no

matter how inappropriate,wrong,or weird it was.And she seemed to think

that I should be the same way,passing from bedroom to bathroom in

various states of undress,making myself an object for all to see and

since I disagreed,that was because I was " silly " and " too modest " and

a " prude " .

From the time I was twelve,she started telling me detailed stories

about her sex life prior to meeting fada.With really gruesome

details.Sadly,I was " grateful " to have her attention at all since she

usually ignored me,so I listened.Her stories were all about what " we "

have to put up with as women and how much we can get away with before

society either condemns us or we get into " trouble " .She always had that

weird smirk on her face as if I understood exactly what she meant and

she was talking to me as if I was already sexually active,which really

confused me.Was I supposed to be having sex? I decided that because it

was nada telling me those things,it must be wrong.That was my automatic

defense from about the age of seven: if nada says so,dismiss it out of

hand. Yet,once I did grow up and did have relationships,she never asked

me ONCE about them.I've always known all about her sex life and she has

known NOTHING of mine.

She said to me one day when I was a young adult, " By the time you were

twelve,you were already an adult. " How sick is that.

Does anyone else have a nada who behaved like this?? Thank

you,again,Artwidow,for being so honest and telling your story,it was

very helpful and clarifying for me.

-

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing you stories. My Nada also walked around naked. She would also

point out that she had no underware on. This would always gross me out. Then as

I got older she would talk somewhat about her and my father's sex life. She

didn't go into detail but it was inappropriate. She always made herself out to

be such a prude and pristine teenager and still wanted to view herself like that

at times.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: christine.depizan@...: Fri,

7 Dec 2007 06:16:10 +0000Subject: Re: New here, and a quick

question/nada's inappropriate sexualizing

Artwidow,thank you for sharing this: " Related to what > one of you said about

your nada sexualizing things, my stepnada was > just the same way! She started

the sex talks with us at a very, > very young age. Not that we needed them - the

whole neighborhood > could hear her screaming orgasms. Not just the two

frightened 7 and > 5 year olds in the next room. She also loved to parade around

the > house nude, and made us come to her and my father's bed to say >

goodnight, boobies all plopped out over the sheet. Until I was > almost 20. " Your

post has helped me to finally see clearly what I have long suspected about my

nada,but didn't know how to accept.For all these years,I have thought that she

was just uniquely bizarre and I have been too ashamed to tell anyone these

things.Just knowing that I'm not the " only one " allows me to accept it for what

it is,which I think now is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and

part of her enmeshment with me was assuming that I was also " sexual " ,therefore I

would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with me.I did read

somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's many acts can be a

" hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't know where she left off and I

began,even when I was just a little kid and couldn't possibly have apprehended

the nuances of her " sexuality " .She seemed to revel in being the exhibitionist at

my expense and to also revel in having me be the voyeur,again with zero regard

for the fact that I was a CHILD. Having to listen to her " screaming orgasms " as

a small child must have been very frightening for you.My nada didn't actually

sleep with fada because my little brother had severe asthma.The two of us slept

in the same room so I could be on " overnight duty " in case he had an asthma

attack.Outrageously,I slept through one of these one night when I was five and

he had to be rushed to the hospital.Nada was apoplectic with rage-how could I be

so selfish? so untrustworthy? so stupid?- and since my brother was her little

angel boy,from that night onward she slept on the living room sofa so she would

be near enough to our room to hear any breathing distress.So,bizarrely,this time

coincides with her giving me my first " sex talks " .All about how when two people

feel a certain way about eachother,they want to be " close " and then she tried to

explain how that works physically and which body parts are involved.I tuned her

out as best I could because the way she was talking to me didn't seem right.Fada

was sleeping in the master bedroom suite upstairs.After we had this " little

talk " ,she'd ANNOUNCE to me as she tucked me in when she was going to " go

upstairs to be with your father because we need to be close " .Always with a very

weird,conspiratorial smirk on her face and she was practically radiating

horniness,which made me want to smack her or scream or throw up or

something.She'd say, " If you need me for anything tonight,you'll have to

wait.Don't try to come upstairs.Don't even knock on the door... " I did ask her

what in the world was I supposed to do if my brother had an asthma attack and

she replied angrily, " This is MY time with your father,you just stay

downstairs " ...Totally contradicting the extreme importance of keeping a vigil

over my brother.I didn't understand it at all then,but I see now that this was

just her thinking only of herself.I remember one night when my brother sounded

so wheezy,he woke me up and I went to their bedroom door and stood there not

knowing what to do.I could hear their bed squeaking and the moaning.I got really

pissed off and pounded on the door and shouted, " Your son is having an asthma

attack! " and they were both really angry with me rushing at me pulling on

bathrobes and accused me of " bothering them on purpose. " Nada shook my brother

awake and when he responded,she yelled at me to get back in bed and stay

there.Both of them went right back upstairs.And the walking around the house

nude.My nada did that,too! Even once my brother and I were teenagers.There was

no reason for it.She just did it because she got off on it.She especially seemed

to enjoy knowing that my brother couldn't resist looking at her naked.She'd even

engage him in conversation while she pranced around,forcing him to have to look

at her.Fada never said a word as a naked forty year old woman waltzed into a

fifteen year old boy's room and bantered with him.I thought then and I still

think now that her behavior was incestuous.I KNOW that my paternal grandmother

would never have done such a thing in a million years,but fada always blindly

accepted whatever nada did,no matter how inappropriate,wrong,or weird it was.And

she seemed to think that I should be the same way,passing from bedroom to

bathroom in various states of undress,making myself an object for all to see and

since I disagreed,that was because I was " silly " and " too modest " and a

" prude " .From the time I was twelve,she started telling me detailed stories about

her sex life prior to meeting fada.With really gruesome details.Sadly,I was

" grateful " to have her attention at all since she usually ignored me,so I

listened.Her stories were all about what " we " have to put up with as women and

how much we can get away with before society either condemns us or we get into

" trouble " .She always had that weird smirk on her face as if I understood exactly

what she meant and she was talking to me as if I was already sexually

active,which really confused me.Was I supposed to be having sex? I decided that

because it was nada telling me those things,it must be wrong.That was my

automatic defense from about the age of seven: if nada says so,dismiss it out of

hand. Yet,once I did grow up and did have relationships,she never asked me ONCE

about them.I've always known all about her sex life and she has known NOTHING of

mine.She said to me one day when I was a young adult, " By the time you were

twelve,you were already an adult. " How sick is that.Does anyone else have a nada

who behaved like this?? Thank you,again,Artwidow,for being so honest and telling

your story,it was very helpful and clarifying for me.-

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

oh. my. god.

okay, okay, okay. i'm the oldest of three girls in my family. my

mom and dad used to walk around naked all the time. the nakedness

really didn't bother me, and my dad was not weird about it at all,

but i do remember screaming matches they would have when my mom would

decide to open the windows when they were both naked...at night...

he was like, JESUS CHRIST, I'M NAKED HERE! and she was like, " what's

the big deal? "

also, my dad never gave me a hard time about being the only family

member who insisted on being clothed all the time, but my mom had a

real problem. we had a live-in nanny and she would always make fun

of me that i wouldn't get naked in front of her. this is when i'm 8

and i have to tell my mom to back off and leave me alone.

and my dad stopped walking around naked when i was around 10, and it

just wasn't a big deal. my mom was really the one who was weird

about it. she talked about sex all the time, and i thought it was

because she was a nurse or something.

and she assumed i started having sex when i was 14. JEEZ. talk

about not paying attention. I had a boyfriend, but we were not

having sex. finally, i got sick of her spending all night talking on

the phone to guys that i slid a piece of paper under her door (at the

age of 15) saying i wanted her to put me on the pill because i wanted

to start having sex. hehehe, it was mostly just a F*CK YOU for

ignoring me and my little sisters all the time.

and when i finally DID start having sex (at the age of 18 with the

awesome guy i'm now married to...YAY!), i knew the only way to keep

her out of my business was to have total disclosure to the point that

she just did not want to hear it anymore, so i pulled a " mom " on her

and any time she asked an insulting and uncomfortable question, i

just answered in as blunt and uncensored way i could that she

eventually realized she couldn't get to me that way anymore.

VICTORY WAS MINE!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

now i talk about how i don't understand sex all the time...which is

still kinda weird, but i know i do it at least. i just see SEX in

every situation. people have asked me if i was molested or something

because i don't want most people to touch me and i point out sexual

tension whenever i feel it because it makes me uncomfortable unless

it's out in the open. (imagine " flirting " for me in high

school...hell.)

bink

>

> Artwidow,thank you for sharing this:

>

> " Related to what

> > one of you said about your nada sexualizing things, my stepnada

was

> > just the same way! She started the sex talks with us at a very,

> > very young age. Not that we needed them - the whole neighborhood

> > could hear her screaming orgasms. Not just the two frightened 7

and

> > 5 year olds in the next room. She also loved to parade around

the

> > house nude, and made us come to her and my father's bed to say

> > goodnight, boobies all plopped out over the sheet. Until I was

> > almost 20. "

>

> Your post has helped me to finally see clearly what I have long

> suspected about my nada,but didn't know how to accept.For all these

> years,I have thought that she was just uniquely bizarre and I have

been

> too ashamed to tell anyone these things.Just knowing that I'm not

> the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I think

now

> is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

> enmeshment with me was assuming that I was also " sexual " ,therefore

I

> would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with

me.I

> did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's many

> acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't

know

> where she left off and I began,even when I was just a little kid

and

> couldn't possibly have apprehended the nuances of

her " sexuality " .She

> seemed to revel in being the exhibitionist at my expense and to

also

> revel in having me be the voyeur,again with zero regard for the

fact

> that I was a CHILD.

>

> Having to listen to her " screaming orgasms " as a small child must

have

> been very frightening for you.My nada didn't actually sleep with

fada

> because my little brother had severe asthma.The two of us slept in

the

> same room so I could be on " overnight duty " in case he had an

asthma

> attack.Outrageously,I slept through one of these one night when I

was

> five and he had to be rushed to the hospital.Nada was apoplectic

with

> rage-how could I be so selfish? so untrustworthy? so stupid?- and

since

> my brother was her little angel boy,from that night onward she

slept on

> the living room sofa so she would be near enough to our room to

hear

> any breathing distress.

>

> So,bizarrely,this time coincides with her giving me my first " sex

> talks " .All about how when two people feel a certain way about

> eachother,they want to be " close " and then she tried to explain how

> that works physically and which body parts are involved.I tuned her

out

> as best I could because the way she was talking to me didn't seem

> right.Fada was sleeping in the master bedroom suite upstairs.After

we

> had this " little talk " ,she'd ANNOUNCE to me as she tucked me in

when

> she was going to " go upstairs to be with your father because we

need to

> be close " .Always with a very weird,conspiratorial smirk on her face

and

> she was practically radiating horniness,which made me want to smack

her

> or scream or throw up or something.She'd say, " If you need me for

> anything tonight,you'll have to wait.Don't try to come

upstairs.Don't

> even knock on the door... " I did ask her what in the world was I

> supposed to do if my brother had an asthma attack and she replied

> angrily, " This is MY time with your father,you just stay

> downstairs " ...Totally contradicting the extreme importance of

keeping a

> vigil over my brother.I didn't understand it at all then,but I see

now

> that this was just her thinking only of herself.I remember one

night

> when my brother sounded so wheezy,he woke me up and I went to their

> bedroom door and stood there not knowing what to do.I could hear

their

> bed squeaking and the moaning.I got really pissed off and pounded

on

> the door and shouted, " Your son is having an asthma attack! " and

they

> were both really angry with me rushing at me pulling on bathrobes

and

> accused me of " bothering them on purpose. " Nada shook my brother

awake

> and when he responded,she yelled at me to get back in bed and stay

> there.Both of them went right back upstairs.

>

> And the walking around the house nude.My nada did that,too! Even

once

> my brother and I were teenagers.There was no reason for it.She just

did

> it because she got off on it.She especially seemed to enjoy knowing

> that my brother couldn't resist looking at her naked.She'd even

engage

> him in conversation while she pranced around,forcing him to have to

> look at her.Fada never said a word as a naked forty year old woman

> waltzed into a fifteen year old boy's room and bantered with him.I

> thought then and I still think now that her behavior was

incestuous.I

> KNOW that my paternal grandmother would never have done such a

thing in

> a million years,but fada always blindly accepted whatever nada

did,no

> matter how inappropriate,wrong,or weird it was.And she seemed to

think

> that I should be the same way,passing from bedroom to bathroom in

> various states of undress,making myself an object for all to see

and

> since I disagreed,that was because I was " silly " and " too modest "

and

> a " prude " .

>

> From the time I was twelve,she started telling me detailed stories

> about her sex life prior to meeting fada.With really gruesome

> details.Sadly,I was " grateful " to have her attention at all since

she

> usually ignored me,so I listened.Her stories were all about

what " we "

> have to put up with as women and how much we can get away with

before

> society either condemns us or we get into " trouble " .She always had

that

> weird smirk on her face as if I understood exactly what she meant

and

> she was talking to me as if I was already sexually active,which

really

> confused me.Was I supposed to be having sex? I decided that because

it

> was nada telling me those things,it must be wrong.That was my

automatic

> defense from about the age of seven: if nada says so,dismiss it out

of

> hand. Yet,once I did grow up and did have relationships,she never

asked

> me ONCE about them.I've always known all about her sex life and she

has

> known NOTHING of mine.

>

> She said to me one day when I was a young adult, " By the time you

were

> twelve,you were already an adult. " How sick is that.

>

> Does anyone else have a nada who behaved like this?? Thank

> you,again,Artwidow,for being so honest and telling your story,it

was

> very helpful and clarifying for me.

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Although my mom didn't sexualize things that I can remember, i

remember a few times where she did bring it up. Once in the car with

her, she was talking about her friend lorenna. She said " lorenna

already had the sex talk with her daughter (who was a couple years

younger than me). I can't do that with you because you are too

immature. if you were more mature i could have that talk with you " .

I was 11 when she said this to me. And it's funny....because that is

when my grandfather (her father) started molesting me. I hadn't

told her yet. how immature of me.

She talked a lot about how i was " too immature " to have those kinds

of talks with her...as if my immaturity was keeping her from being

able to have this " great experience " of having a sex talk with her

daughter. I don't think i was immature...i was always older than my

age, even as a kid. But it's like she wanted me to feel like i was

holding her back from some kind of pleasure of being immature. that

it was my fault she couldn't have that particular conversation with

me and that i needed to be punished for it.

When i finally told her about my grandfather, she was quiet for a

little while, and then said " he was probably just testing you to see

how you would handle the real thing " . i didn't argue. i was only

11.what was i supposed to think? NADA and my grandpa were the two

people i trusted more than anyone in the world, how could they be

wrong? but she told me to let her know if it happened again.

one day my grandpa came home from puerto rico (worked for FEMA and

travelled a lot) and he had been diagnosed with leukemia not long

before. I helped him carry his luggage upstairs to his room. he

wasn't " Sick " yet,but just a little weak at times. when i got to his

room he put his hands on me all over again.

i went downstairs and told my mother and she said " oh, he did it

again? really? " and after that acted like nothing at all happened.

when grandpa came downstairs everything was just fine and hunky

dory. at the time it didn't occur to me that my own mother was not

being protective like she should have been. she just let it all go.

it happened a few more times but i never said anything because i

knew she wouldn't do anything about it. it was her own father. she

had a sick idea that respecting ones parent means agreeing with

everything they do and say no matter what...a belief that she has

tried to instill into me, and that i believed until i recently woke

up and realized what she has been doing all these years. If it were

my kid, NO ONE would get away with harming them.

I brought the molestation situation up to her a few years back,

during my sophomore year in college. she was calm at first, but then

got very angry and defensive and said how awful i was for smearing

the name of her dead father, and that i should continue showing

respect for him even after he is dead. she tried to tell me that he

did it because he was so sick. well, he had JUST been diagnosed at

the time and wasn't SICK yet. I know this. So i haven't brought it

up since.

I know this is getting really long, but i need to get this off my

chest. a few weeks ago when my mother was sending me all these nasty

emails, she forwarded me an email that my uncle wrote to her. he

said things about how my behavior is changed, and how " downright

disrespectful " i am, and how ive forgotten who i am and where i came

from. he said " i don't know why she is acting this way, you've

always been dedicated mother. she's had her grandfathers influence,

too " .

My grandfathers influence????? Yeah, i had his influence. he used

his power within the family to take advantage of his adolescent

granddaughter. because of him, i have issues with intimacy, physical

boundaries, and trust. Those are my fucking grandfathers influence.

Sorry for the language, but im all rallied up now and want to beat

my NADA up. I haven't spoken to her since November 15th and don't

know if i ever will again. I hate her so much right now.

> >

> > Artwidow,thank you for sharing this:

> >

> > " Related to what

> > > one of you said about your nada sexualizing things, my

stepnada

> was

> > > just the same way! She started the sex talks with us at a

very,

> > > very young age. Not that we needed them - the whole

neighborhood

> > > could hear her screaming orgasms. Not just the two frightened

7

> and

> > > 5 year olds in the next room. She also loved to parade around

> the

> > > house nude, and made us come to her and my father's bed to say

> > > goodnight, boobies all plopped out over the sheet. Until I

was

> > > almost 20. "

> >

> > Your post has helped me to finally see clearly what I have long

> > suspected about my nada,but didn't know how to accept.For all

these

> > years,I have thought that she was just uniquely bizarre and I

have

> been

> > too ashamed to tell anyone these things.Just knowing that I'm

not

> > the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I

think

> now

> > is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

> > enmeshment with me was assuming that I was

also " sexual " ,therefore

> I

> > would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with

> me.I

> > did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's

many

> > acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't

> know

> > where she left off and I began,even when I was just a little kid

> and

> > couldn't possibly have apprehended the nuances of

> her " sexuality " .She

> > seemed to revel in being the exhibitionist at my expense and to

> also

> > revel in having me be the voyeur,again with zero regard for the

> fact

> > that I was a CHILD.

> >

> > Having to listen to her " screaming orgasms " as a small child

must

> have

> > been very frightening for you.My nada didn't actually sleep with

> fada

> > because my little brother had severe asthma.The two of us slept

in

> the

> > same room so I could be on " overnight duty " in case he had an

> asthma

> > attack.Outrageously,I slept through one of these one night when

I

> was

> > five and he had to be rushed to the hospital.Nada was apoplectic

> with

> > rage-how could I be so selfish? so untrustworthy? so stupid?-

and

> since

> > my brother was her little angel boy,from that night onward she

> slept on

> > the living room sofa so she would be near enough to our room to

> hear

> > any breathing distress.

> >

> > So,bizarrely,this time coincides with her giving me my

first " sex

> > talks " .All about how when two people feel a certain way about

> > eachother,they want to be " close " and then she tried to explain

how

> > that works physically and which body parts are involved.I tuned

her

> out

> > as best I could because the way she was talking to me didn't

seem

> > right.Fada was sleeping in the master bedroom suite

upstairs.After

> we

> > had this " little talk " ,she'd ANNOUNCE to me as she tucked me in

> when

> > she was going to " go upstairs to be with your father because we

> need to

> > be close " .Always with a very weird,conspiratorial smirk on her

face

> and

> > she was practically radiating horniness,which made me want to

smack

> her

> > or scream or throw up or something.She'd say, " If you need me for

> > anything tonight,you'll have to wait.Don't try to come

> upstairs.Don't

> > even knock on the door... " I did ask her what in the world was I

> > supposed to do if my brother had an asthma attack and she

replied

> > angrily, " This is MY time with your father,you just stay

> > downstairs " ...Totally contradicting the extreme importance of

> keeping a

> > vigil over my brother.I didn't understand it at all then,but I

see

> now

> > that this was just her thinking only of herself.I remember one

> night

> > when my brother sounded so wheezy,he woke me up and I went to

their

> > bedroom door and stood there not knowing what to do.I could hear

> their

> > bed squeaking and the moaning.I got really pissed off and

pounded

> on

> > the door and shouted, " Your son is having an asthma attack! " and

> they

> > were both really angry with me rushing at me pulling on

bathrobes

> and

> > accused me of " bothering them on purpose. " Nada shook my brother

> awake

> > and when he responded,she yelled at me to get back in bed and

stay

> > there.Both of them went right back upstairs.

> >

> > And the walking around the house nude.My nada did that,too!

Even

> once

> > my brother and I were teenagers.There was no reason for it.She

just

> did

> > it because she got off on it.She especially seemed to enjoy

knowing

> > that my brother couldn't resist looking at her naked.She'd even

> engage

> > him in conversation while she pranced around,forcing him to have

to

> > look at her.Fada never said a word as a naked forty year old

woman

> > waltzed into a fifteen year old boy's room and bantered with

him.I

> > thought then and I still think now that her behavior was

> incestuous.I

> > KNOW that my paternal grandmother would never have done such a

> thing in

> > a million years,but fada always blindly accepted whatever nada

> did,no

> > matter how inappropriate,wrong,or weird it was.And she seemed to

> think

> > that I should be the same way,passing from bedroom to bathroom

in

> > various states of undress,making myself an object for all to see

> and

> > since I disagreed,that was because I was " silly " and " too

modest "

> and

> > a " prude " .

> >

> > From the time I was twelve,she started telling me detailed

stories

> > about her sex life prior to meeting fada.With really gruesome

> > details.Sadly,I was " grateful " to have her attention at all

since

> she

> > usually ignored me,so I listened.Her stories were all about

> what " we "

> > have to put up with as women and how much we can get away with

> before

> > society either condemns us or we get into " trouble " .She always

had

> that

> > weird smirk on her face as if I understood exactly what she

meant

> and

> > she was talking to me as if I was already sexually active,which

> really

> > confused me.Was I supposed to be having sex? I decided that

because

> it

> > was nada telling me those things,it must be wrong.That was my

> automatic

> > defense from about the age of seven: if nada says so,dismiss it

out

> of

> > hand. Yet,once I did grow up and did have relationships,she

never

> asked

> > me ONCE about them.I've always known all about her sex life and

she

> has

> > known NOTHING of mine.

> >

> > She said to me one day when I was a young adult, " By the time

you

> were

> > twelve,you were already an adult. " How sick is that.

> >

> > Does anyone else have a nada who behaved like this?? Thank

> > you,again,Artwidow,for being so honest and telling your story,it

> was

> > very helpful and clarifying for me.

> >

> > -

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My nada was overly sexually suggestive with some of my husband's

friends -- I always thought it was entirely inappropriate. She

would act conspiratorial with them, AS IF they were intimates. And

not necessarily sexually -- but she just took over as if they were

HER friends all along. Even going so far as to use cusswords with

them, and " flip the bird " at them in a joking manner. (That always

bugged me because she could never flip the bird properly -- looked

ridiculous!)

My husband's best friend, in particular, is a handsome guy. Happily

married and faithful to his wife. He made the dire mistake of

saying how beautiful my mom looked on my wedding day. He meant it

as a nice thing to say. SHE took it to mean he was secretly in love

with her. Forever after that, on the phone or if I mentioned him,

my mom would ask me " Did he say anything about me? " Ugh.

Oh, the embarrassment when your nada thinks she's hot stuff.

I had one other former friend who's a narcissist, and she acted the

SAME WAY toward this same friend of my husband's! Even down to the

cusswords and acting as if they were the best of friends,

independent of my husband and I.

Also, as far as MY sexuality -- my nada just railed at me, accusing

me of having sex (I wasn't yet), on watch all the time for it --

ready with the angry lecture. It was conducted angrily, with shame

and accusations. She was jealous because I was considered a pretty

teenager, with plenty of attention from boys, and her prime was

past. If she saw an opportunity to tear me down and make fun of me

to others -- she took it.

[Guest guest]

I don't blame you a bit -- and you're absolutely right: She FAILED

as a mother to protect her daughter. FAILED you. How awful to

ignore it when your child comes to you for help because she's being

molested!

It's too bad your uncle has this fairy tale in his head, but that's

just how it will have to be.

Next time she brings up how awful you are, if you're in the mood to,

I'd bring up how she failed to protect you when her own father was

putting his hands all over you. If she protests with a weak

diversion like " He was sick! " -- keep going with the

description. " Well, mom, he was feeling well enough to...... " and

keep batting it back to her. Force her to look at it. Answer every

one of her excuses with more of the molestation memories.

If nothing else, it will rattle her.

I guess I'm angry today, too. But nothing makes me more furious

than a mother ignoring her child when that child's being violated.

Go ahead and give some of it back to her. You might feel better.

And I wouldn't blame you if you NEVER spoke to her again. She

betrayed you in the worst way possible. She tore up her " mother "

card, just like your grandfather tore up his " grandfather " card.

They failed to live up to the name and so deserve the consequences

of their actions, their choices.

The " relationship " deserves to be relegated to history. SHE is the

one who squandered it -- not YOU. Don't blame yourself for not

wanting to have anything to do with her. She was an accomplice to

your molester. She chose to protect him and not you.

It would be different if she'd had a change of heart, asked

forgiveness for betraying you so horribly, and changed her ways.

But, by CONTINUING to give excuses for your perpetrator, she

continues to protect him at your expense. That's all you need to

know -- do you want someone like that to have a priority role in

your life? I wouldn't blame you one bit if the answer was a

resounding " NO! "

It's time for your life now. Move forward and leave your abusers,

alive or dead, behind. By their actions, they stopped being your

family a long time ago.

-Kyla

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kyla. I needed to hear that. This is the first time I've

ever openly talked about the situation. I guess deep down I thought

that if my own mother didn't really think it was a big deal, that no

one else would either.

>

> I don't blame you a bit -- and you're absolutely right: She

FAILED

> as a mother to protect her daughter. FAILED you. How awful to

> ignore it when your child comes to you for help because she's

being

> molested!

>

> It's too bad your uncle has this fairy tale in his head, but

that's

> just how it will have to be.

>

> Next time she brings up how awful you are, if you're in the mood

to,

> I'd bring up how she failed to protect you when her own father was

> putting his hands all over you. If she protests with a weak

> diversion like " He was sick! " -- keep going with the

> description. " Well, mom, he was feeling well enough to...... " and

> keep batting it back to her. Force her to look at it. Answer

every

> one of her excuses with more of the molestation memories.

>

> If nothing else, it will rattle her.

>

> I guess I'm angry today, too. But nothing makes me more furious

> than a mother ignoring her child when that child's being violated.

>

> Go ahead and give some of it back to her. You might feel better.

>

> And I wouldn't blame you if you NEVER spoke to her again. She

> betrayed you in the worst way possible. She tore up her " mother "

> card, just like your grandfather tore up his " grandfather " card.

> They failed to live up to the name and so deserve the consequences

> of their actions, their choices.

>

> The " relationship " deserves to be relegated to history. SHE is

the

> one who squandered it -- not YOU. Don't blame yourself for not

> wanting to have anything to do with her. She was an accomplice to

> your molester. She chose to protect him and not you.

>

> It would be different if she'd had a change of heart, asked

> forgiveness for betraying you so horribly, and changed her ways.

> But, by CONTINUING to give excuses for your perpetrator, she

> continues to protect him at your expense. That's all you need to

> know -- do you want someone like that to have a priority role in

> your life? I wouldn't blame you one bit if the answer was a

> resounding " NO! "

>

> It's time for your life now. Move forward and leave your abusers,

> alive or dead, behind. By their actions, they stopped being your

> family a long time ago.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

man, i don't even have any kids and the idea of letting that kind of

thing happen to ANY kid makes me want to vomit. i don't blame you

for hating your mother. she did not act like a mother at all.

>

> Although my mom didn't sexualize things that I can remember, i

> remember a few times where she did bring it up. Once in the car

with

> her, she was talking about her friend lorenna. She said " lorenna

> already had the sex talk with her daughter (who was a couple years

> younger than me). I can't do that with you because you are too

> immature. if you were more mature i could have that talk with you " .

> I was 11 when she said this to me. And it's funny....because that

is

> when my grandfather (her father) started molesting me. I hadn't

> told her yet. how immature of me.

>

> She talked a lot about how i was " too immature " to have those kinds

> of talks with her...as if my immaturity was keeping her from being

> able to have this " great experience " of having a sex talk with her

> daughter. I don't think i was immature...i was always older than my

> age, even as a kid. But it's like she wanted me to feel like i was

> holding her back from some kind of pleasure of being immature. that

> it was my fault she couldn't have that particular conversation with

> me and that i needed to be punished for it.

>

> When i finally told her about my grandfather, she was quiet for a

> little while, and then said " he was probably just testing you to

see

> how you would handle the real thing " . i didn't argue. i was only

> 11.what was i supposed to think? NADA and my grandpa were the two

> people i trusted more than anyone in the world, how could they be

> wrong? but she told me to let her know if it happened again.

> one day my grandpa came home from puerto rico (worked for FEMA and

> travelled a lot) and he had been diagnosed with leukemia not long

> before. I helped him carry his luggage upstairs to his room. he

> wasn't " Sick " yet,but just a little weak at times. when i got to

his

> room he put his hands on me all over again.

> i went downstairs and told my mother and she said " oh, he did it

> again? really? " and after that acted like nothing at all happened.

> when grandpa came downstairs everything was just fine and hunky

> dory. at the time it didn't occur to me that my own mother was not

> being protective like she should have been. she just let it all go.

> it happened a few more times but i never said anything because i

> knew she wouldn't do anything about it. it was her own father. she

> had a sick idea that respecting ones parent means agreeing with

> everything they do and say no matter what...a belief that she has

> tried to instill into me, and that i believed until i recently woke

> up and realized what she has been doing all these years. If it were

> my kid, NO ONE would get away with harming them.

>

> I brought the molestation situation up to her a few years back,

> during my sophomore year in college. she was calm at first, but

then

> got very angry and defensive and said how awful i was for smearing

> the name of her dead father, and that i should continue showing

> respect for him even after he is dead. she tried to tell me that he

> did it because he was so sick. well, he had JUST been diagnosed at

> the time and wasn't SICK yet. I know this. So i haven't brought it

> up since.

>

> I know this is getting really long, but i need to get this off my

> chest. a few weeks ago when my mother was sending me all these

nasty

> emails, she forwarded me an email that my uncle wrote to her. he

> said things about how my behavior is changed, and how " downright

> disrespectful " i am, and how ive forgotten who i am and where i

came

> from. he said " i don't know why she is acting this way, you've

> always been dedicated mother. she's had her grandfathers influence,

> too " .

>

> My grandfathers influence????? Yeah, i had his influence. he used

> his power within the family to take advantage of his adolescent

> granddaughter. because of him, i have issues with intimacy,

physical

> boundaries, and trust. Those are my fucking grandfathers influence.

>

> Sorry for the language, but im all rallied up now and want to beat

> my NADA up. I haven't spoken to her since November 15th and don't

> know if i ever will again. I hate her so much right now.

>

[Guest guest]

wrote.

..Just knowing that I'm not

> the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I think now

> is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

> enmeshment with me was assuming that I was also " sexual " ,therefore I

> would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with me.I

> did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's many

> acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't know

> where she left off and I began>

**********************************************

Wow, I have always complained that I felt like my nada had the " sex talk " with

me way too

young, I was about 7 or 8.

She also talked to me as if I was a hyper-sexualized as her. She even went to

the extreme

of putting me on birth control at the age of 15. I did not fill the Rx at that

time. I also was

allowed to date starting at FOURTEEN.

My first boyfriend i slept with was a male version of my nada and he actually

seduced her

(verbally, flattery ect) to smooth the way to get to me. I met him a few months

after mom

took me in for BC Pills. She actuallly intervened with my dad on this guys

behalf because

he was TEN YEARS OLDER THAN ME. when nada realized that this guy was going to

usurp

her control over me she freaked out. Hid the Rx slip for the birth control and

everything.

Fortunately I worked in a pharmacy so I just called my Dr.'s nurse and claimed I

had lost

the slip, could they call me in an order at my pharmacy?

I sometimes think that I picked up alot of fleas in reguards to my sexuality. It

never did fail

to creep me out the way she would talk to me like we were best friends talking

about her

sex life. Bleh yuck. I finally did something so outrageous that she backed off.

Nada was also one that would walk around naked alot. I swear she even bathed

with my

brother til he was at least 5. THAT was disturbing to me. I feel like when your

child starts

to feel self-conscience about his or her own body then you should cover up too.

My son is

eight and I come out in a t-shirt and panties now and then but I have not run

around the

house naked since he was really little.

I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or complete

puritan prigs.

There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this topic so far. Any

puritan

nadas out there?

xoxo Carla

[Guest guest]

Sara Jo,

I am so, SO sorry that something so horrendous happened to you. I'm

cyber-hugging you right now! Your mother is the truest definition of

a nada - that she wouldn't protect you from your sexually abusive

grandfather is APPALLING and devastating. She was not, is not, and

will never be a mother. Not protecting your own child with your life

is UNFATHOMABLE to me. All my best to you in your road to healing and

your COMPLETELY APPROPRIATE choice of NC.

::hugs::

> > >

> > > Artwidow,thank you for sharing this:

> > >

> > > " Related to what

> > > > one of you said about your nada sexualizing things, my

> stepnada

> > was

> > > > just the same way! She started the sex talks with us at a

> very,

> > > > very young age. Not that we needed them - the whole

> neighborhood

> > > > could hear her screaming orgasms. Not just the two frightened

> 7

> > and

> > > > 5 year olds in the next room. She also loved to parade around

> > the

> > > > house nude, and made us come to her and my father's bed to say

> > > > goodnight, boobies all plopped out over the sheet. Until I

> was

> > > > almost 20. "

> > >

> > > Your post has helped me to finally see clearly what I have long

> > > suspected about my nada,but didn't know how to accept.For all

> these

> > > years,I have thought that she was just uniquely bizarre and I

> have

> > been

> > > too ashamed to tell anyone these things.Just knowing that I'm

> not

> > > the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I

> think

> > now

> > > is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

> > > enmeshment with me was assuming that I was

> also " sexual " ,therefore

> > I

> > > would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with

> > me.I

> > > did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's

> many

> > > acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't

> > know

> > > where she left off and I began,even when I was just a little kid

> > and

> > > couldn't possibly have apprehended the nuances of

> > her " sexuality " .She

> > > seemed to revel in being the exhibitionist at my expense and to

> > also

> > > revel in having me be the voyeur,again with zero regard for the

> > fact

> > > that I was a CHILD.

> > >

> > > Having to listen to her " screaming orgasms " as a small child

> must

> > have

> > > been very frightening for you.My nada didn't actually sleep with

> > fada

> > > because my little brother had severe asthma.The two of us slept

> in

> > the

> > > same room so I could be on " overnight duty " in case he had an

> > asthma

> > > attack.Outrageously,I slept through one of these one night when

> I

> > was

> > > five and he had to be rushed to the hospital.Nada was apoplectic

> > with

> > > rage-how could I be so selfish? so untrustworthy? so stupid?-

> and

> > since

> > > my brother was her little angel boy,from that night onward she

> > slept on

> > > the living room sofa so she would be near enough to our room to

> > hear

> > > any breathing distress.

> > >

> > > So,bizarrely,this time coincides with her giving me my

> first " sex

> > > talks " .All about how when two people feel a certain way about

> > > eachother,they want to be " close " and then she tried to explain

> how

> > > that works physically and which body parts are involved.I tuned

> her

> > out

> > > as best I could because the way she was talking to me didn't

> seem

> > > right.Fada was sleeping in the master bedroom suite

> upstairs.After

> > we

> > > had this " little talk " ,she'd ANNOUNCE to me as she tucked me in

> > when

> > > she was going to " go upstairs to be with your father because we

> > need to

> > > be close " .Always with a very weird,conspiratorial smirk on her

> face

> > and

> > > she was practically radiating horniness,which made me want to

> smack

> > her

> > > or scream or throw up or something.She'd say, " If you need me for

> > > anything tonight,you'll have to wait.Don't try to come

> > upstairs.Don't

> > > even knock on the door... " I did ask her what in the world was I

> > > supposed to do if my brother had an asthma attack and she

> replied

> > > angrily, " This is MY time with your father,you just stay

> > > downstairs " ...Totally contradicting the extreme importance of

> > keeping a

> > > vigil over my brother.I didn't understand it at all then,but I

> see

> > now

> > > that this was just her thinking only of herself.I remember one

> > night

> > > when my brother sounded so wheezy,he woke me up and I went to

> their

> > > bedroom door and stood there not knowing what to do.I could hear

> > their

> > > bed squeaking and the moaning.I got really pissed off and

> pounded

> > on

> > > the door and shouted, " Your son is having an asthma attack! " and

> > they

> > > were both really angry with me rushing at me pulling on

> bathrobes

> > and

> > > accused me of " bothering them on purpose. " Nada shook my brother

> > awake

> > > and when he responded,she yelled at me to get back in bed and

> stay

> > > there.Both of them went right back upstairs.

> > >

> > > And the walking around the house nude.My nada did that,too!

> Even

> > once

> > > my brother and I were teenagers.There was no reason for it.She

> just

> > did

> > > it because she got off on it.She especially seemed to enjoy

> knowing

> > > that my brother couldn't resist looking at her naked.She'd even

> > engage

> > > him in conversation while she pranced around,forcing him to have

> to

> > > look at her.Fada never said a word as a naked forty year old

> woman

> > > waltzed into a fifteen year old boy's room and bantered with

> him.I

> > > thought then and I still think now that her behavior was

> > incestuous.I

> > > KNOW that my paternal grandmother would never have done such a

> > thing in

> > > a million years,but fada always blindly accepted whatever nada

> > did,no

> > > matter how inappropriate,wrong,or weird it was.And she seemed to

> > think

> > > that I should be the same way,passing from bedroom to bathroom

> in

> > > various states of undress,making myself an object for all to see

> > and

> > > since I disagreed,that was because I was " silly " and " too

> modest "

> > and

> > > a " prude " .

> > >

> > > From the time I was twelve,she started telling me detailed

> stories

> > > about her sex life prior to meeting fada.With really gruesome

> > > details.Sadly,I was " grateful " to have her attention at all

> since

> > she

> > > usually ignored me,so I listened.Her stories were all about

> > what " we "

> > > have to put up with as women and how much we can get away with

> > before

> > > society either condemns us or we get into " trouble " .She always

> had

> > that

> > > weird smirk on her face as if I understood exactly what she

> meant

> > and

> > > she was talking to me as if I was already sexually active,which

> > really

> > > confused me.Was I supposed to be having sex? I decided that

> because

> > it

> > > was nada telling me those things,it must be wrong.That was my

> > automatic

> > > defense from about the age of seven: if nada says so,dismiss it

> out

> > of

> > > hand. Yet,once I did grow up and did have relationships,she

> never

> > asked

> > > me ONCE about them.I've always known all about her sex life and

> she

> > has

> > > known NOTHING of mine.

> > >

> > > She said to me one day when I was a young adult, " By the time

> you

> > were

> > > twelve,you were already an adult. " How sick is that.

> > >

> > > Does anyone else have a nada who behaved like this?? Thank

> > > you,again,Artwidow,for being so honest and telling your story,it

> > was

> > > very helpful and clarifying for me.

> > >

> > > -

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kyla said, " Also, as far as MY sexuality -- my nada just railed at me,

accusing me of having sex (I wasn't yet), on watch all the time for it

ready with the angry lecture. It was conducted angrily, with shame

and accusations. She was jealous because I was considered a pretty

teenager, with plenty of attention from boys, and her prime was

past. If she saw an opportunity to tear me down and make fun of me

to others -- she took it.

>

> My nada was overly sexually suggestive with some of my husband's

> friends -- I always thought it was entirely inappropriate. She

> would act conspiratorial with them, AS IF they were intimates. And

> not necessarily sexually -- but she just took over as if they were

> HER friends all along. Even going so far as to use cusswords with

> them, and " flip the bird " at them in a joking manner. (That always

> bugged me because she could never flip the bird properly -- looked

> ridiculous!)

>

> My husband's best friend, in particular, is a handsome guy. Happily

> married and faithful to his wife. He made the dire mistake of

> saying how beautiful my mom looked on my wedding day. He meant it

> as a nice thing to say. SHE took it to mean he was secretly in love

> with her. Forever after that, on the phone or if I mentioned him,

> my mom would ask me " Did he say anything about me? " Ugh.

>

> Oh, the embarrassment when your nada thinks she's hot stuff.

>

> I had one other former friend who's a narcissist, and she acted the

> SAME WAY toward this same friend of my husband's! Even down to the

> cusswords and acting as if they were the best of friends,

> independent of my husband and I.

>

> Also, as far as MY sexuality -- my nada just railed at me, accusing

> me of having sex (I wasn't yet), on watch all the time for it --

> ready with the angry lecture. It was conducted angrily, with shame

> and accusations. She was jealous because I was considered a pretty

> teenager, with plenty of attention from boys, and her prime was

> past. If she saw an opportunity to tear me down and make fun of me

> to others -- she took it.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,...I can really relate to so much that you wrote in your

post.I'm going to include my responses within your post marked with

[[[...]]],so please scroll down!

>

> Hi !

>

> I know we all say this a lot on this board but, GLAD I'M NOT THE

ONLY

> ONE! I'm sorry you went through the same thing too. It was always

so

> weird to me that a grown up was talking to me about that stuff at

age

> 10, and as my sister and I got older, took pride in repeating over

and

> over how great her and my father's sex life was. When she would say

> that kind of thing in front of him, his face would just turn beet

red

> and he'd get this look on his face. Dad never reacted verbally -

He's

> the " Huntsman " (from Understanding the Borderline Mother).

[[[ Hhhm,yes,that sounds familiar! My nada liked to brag about

how " liberated " their sex life was (this was the 70s and " liberated "

was the big buzzword).Her big mouthed bragging definitely embarassed

fada.He never reacted verbally,either,although he is more of a " King "

and at times a " Fisherman " .He'd just kind of sink into the floor and

look away.]]]

>

> She seemed to assume that our relationship with our father was in

some

> way sexual (completely untrue) and loved to compete with my sister

and

> I for his affection. I remember very clearly that my sister (who

was

> 6 at the time) was sitting on his lap watching TV with

him...stepnada

> walked into the room and gleefully declared " My turn on daddy's

lap! " ,

> kicked my sister off, and straddled him. She then proceeded to make

> out with him for several minutes. Ick. I was told a few times that

> " wives are more important than daughters " - a sentiment she still

> believes since she repeated it too me during one of her " pep " talks

> right before my wedding. When I threw a fit about not being able to

> go to sleep with my dad (I was seven and he had just married her),

she

> told me I wasn't allowed to do that anymore and slammed the door in

my

> face. Like the kid that I was I screamed and cried loudly, all the

> while her company was in the living room listening. Dad and her

had a

> HORRENDOUS fight the next morning - one of the only times I've ever

> heard him angry - he punched his fist through the bathroom door and

> left, leaving her to take me to school. She told me that if they

got

> divorced over the fight, that I would be the one to blame. After

> having just gone through my parent's divorce as a six year old, and

> both parent's rapid remarriages to domineering individuals, and

still

> going through the typical phase of believing that I was responsible

> for my mom and dad's divorce, I have her affirming to me that

children

> cause divorces. Wonderful. So glad my dad left me alone with her

> that morning. When my mom confronted him about her saying that to

me,

> he said " she would NEVER say anything like that to the girls. She

> LOVES the girls. "

[[[ ,what your stepnada said to you about being " to blame " for

any divorce is complete emotional abuse.What a

terrible,cruel,insensitive thing to say to a little six year old girl

whose parents had just divorced.BPs are so very good at homing in on

one's most aching vulnerablities and driving that knife right in.And

then to have your father pretty much deny the reality of it for the

sake of some fantasy of your stepnada being this

wonderful,loving " mother " .I'm very sorry that happened to you.Just

reading it makes me hurt for you.]]]

>

> said, " she was practically radiating horniness,which made

me

> want to smack her or scream or throw up or something. " God, I felt

> that way all the time!! She was constantly grabbing my father's

butt

> or crotch in front of my sister and I, which made us extremely

> uncomfortable. He kept his mouth shut, because he knew that

rejecting

> her physical advances could and did cause horrible door-slamming

> fights. If he didn't kiss her each time he walked by her chair, she

> would declare in her pouty (though serious) voice that " you don't

love

> me anymore. " It was constant.

[[[ Yes,my nada was like this,too.She was always pawing fada in

front of us.She seemed to like making us all squirm.She had the power

and the control.And yet,like you said,it was never enough and she'd

pout and use her own fey but menacing voice and say that same thing

if fada didn't fawn all over her, " You don't love me anymore " (with

hint of possible temper tantrum if he didn't respond

immediately)...Fada was permitted to spend some quality time with my

brother but never with me because that was too much of a threat.She

was always holding over his head that such and such guy

was " interested " in her or that she wished she could have an affair

with so and so.She would do just that,too,if he continued to " ignore "

her.She'd have no other choice.Maybe so and so would " treat me the

way I deserve to be treated " .Fada was like her sex slave in some

ways.She'd even start arguments with him in front of us about " how

long " it had been since the last time--and what did he want? Did he

WANT her to have an affair? Is that what he wanted? She'd do it,for

sure,if that's what he wanted.Constant emotional/sexual blackmail.At

the same time,constant showing off and provocative behavior and

always this attitude towards me regarding fada of " back off-he's

mine " .As if we were in competition! She seemed to think that a wife

had to fight and act out and engage in histrionics to prevent the

daughter from taking her place...It makes NO sense.It is sick.]]]

>

> , your stepnada walking into your brother's room naked is

> appalling! How did HE feel about that???!! How must that have

> affected his sexual development? OMG I can't even imagine! Poor

kid.

> My stepnada also demanded for us to be little adults. I hate that

she

> stole my childhood from me so early.

[[[ That does seem to be the essential issue in all of this: our

stolen childhoods.That our innocence and openness was so very sullied

and muddied and betrayed.Your stepnada sounds so similar to mine,they

must both be a certain " type " of BP.I'm sure there are archetypes

beyond the great ones sketched out in " UBM " ...As for my brother,he is

still so thoroughly enmeshed with nada (and fada),I don't think there

is much hope of him waking up to reality any day soon.I was the split

black child and I used to think that the little brat had it pretty

good; he was so " spoiled " by our parents but lately I think more that

the poor soul never had much of a chance.He still has this sort of

weird incestuous relationship with nada.He believed that she " loved "

him but I think that she used him just as much as she used me,just in

different ways.He was an object to her,too,for her own use.He married

a woman who is so much like nada but he remains bound to nada and is

devoted to her.It's very sad.He doesn't understand that she is a very

sick woman.He won't even hear of it.She is a paragon of motherhood.

Thank you again,,for sharing your experiences.This has been

very healing for me.I really appreciate your honesty and willingness

to share.We've both been traumatized by all of this.As others have

said,I'm sorry you qualify,but I thank you for being here and for

sharing...

{{{{HUGS}}}}

[Guest guest]

> I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

complete puritan prigs.

> There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this

topic so far. Any puritan

> nadas out there?

>

> xoxo Carla

>

Okay, I'll bite. My nada was a complete puritan prig. We never had

a mature sex talk. I remember asking her about it once, and she told

me that sex hurt, gave you babies and then they had to cut them out

with an enormous knife (I remember the way she described the knife as

being something more like a machete). And then once when I was in

high school I got locked out of the house when I was out on a date.

I rang the doorbell, knocked on the door, and called the house but no

one answered. It was the dead of winter in the upper Midwest and I

had nowhere else to go, so I spent the night at my boyfriend's

house. Keep in mind that I was the biggest geek in the world, so

absolutely no hanky-panky happened. The following morning I came

back and tried to explain things to my mom, who was too busy

screaming " Slut! " and " Whore! " to listen to my side of the story. I

finally asked her " Would you rather I slept outside on the

driveway? " , to which she answered " Yes, you bitch. "

Good times, good times.

[Guest guest]

Wow. I know everyone is always saying this but -- it all sounds so

familiar!!

I had no idea that my smother's hyper-sexuality might be a component

of her BPD. Mine too used to run around naked. I remember when I

was about 8 her coming to the door to get a package from the stunned

UPS guy wearing a crochet mini-dress with nothing on underneath

" because she thought it was daddy coming home " . She's been married 5

times and each time would tell me VERY intimate details about her sex

life with whatever man she was with. Finally as an adult I told her

it was inappropriate and she stopped. She is an artist and had all

kinds of art books with photos (not paintings) of naked people just

laying around our living room. But worst of all she liked to take

" artistic " naked pictures of me. From when I was a baby until I was

about 16 she was always pressuring me to take naked pics because I

was " so beautiful " . Of course that didn't stop her tearing me down

at other times... Don't get me wrong, they weren't nasty, they WERE

artistic, but the point was I was and am a very private person and

really, really DIDN'T want to do them. You can see in some of the

pictures that I've been crying.

LJ

[Guest guest]

Hi Carla,

My mother went on a more puritan bent when she got older. I can't remember

which TV

show (I think it was Dharma and Greg), but she complained about just how overly

sexual it

was and how she couldn't believe that I would watch such trash. This was right

around

the time of her Catholic phase, so I think the two went hand in hand. However,

when I

was younger, it was definitely not the same. She used to flirt a lot too.

After she left my

dad, she was seeing a guy in the next town over and she used to take me with her

when

they visited. However, I had to keep this a secret from my father because she

was afraid

he would divorce her for adultery (all this even though she had left my dad).

It was

terrible.

My mother cheated on my father when she went on a trip to Italy. I was about 5

(it was

right before she left him). If even I could tell that she had had an affair, I

would imagine it

was pretty clear to the adults around us too. This particular incident has

always made me

very angry because she told me that my father always cheated on her, which is

not true

according to my dad.

is

> Wow, I have always complained that I felt like my nada had the " sex talk " with

me way

too

> young, I was about 7 or 8.

>

> She also talked to me as if I was a hyper-sexualized as her. She even went to

the

extreme

> of putting me on birth control at the age of 15. I did not fill the Rx at that

time. I also

was

> allowed to date starting at FOURTEEN.

>

> My first boyfriend i slept with was a male version of my nada and he actually

seduced

her

> (verbally, flattery ect) to smooth the way to get to me. I met him a few

months after

mom

> took me in for BC Pills. She actuallly intervened with my dad on this guys

behalf because

> he was TEN YEARS OLDER THAN ME. when nada realized that this guy was going to

usurp

> her control over me she freaked out. Hid the Rx slip for the birth control

and

everything.

> Fortunately I worked in a pharmacy so I just called my Dr.'s nurse and claimed

I had lost

> the slip, could they call me in an order at my pharmacy?

>

> I sometimes think that I picked up alot of fleas in reguards to my sexuality.

It never did

fail

> to creep me out the way she would talk to me like we were best friends talking

about

her

> sex life. Bleh yuck. I finally did something so outrageous that she backed

off.

>

> Nada was also one that would walk around naked alot. I swear she even bathed

with my

> brother til he was at least 5. THAT was disturbing to me. I feel like when

your child

starts

> to feel self-conscience about his or her own body then you should cover up

too. My son

is

> eight and I come out in a t-shirt and panties now and then but I have not run

around

the

> house naked since he was really little.

>

> I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or complete

puritan

prigs.

> There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this topic so far.

Any

puritan

> nadas out there?

>

> xoxo Carla

>

[Guest guest]

oh man. my mom had the sex talk with me when i was like 4, and

continually said, " sarah, do you know what a penis is?...STAY AWAY

FROM THEM! " why do 4 yr olds need to know this? I knew enough about

the mechanics of heterosexual sex to ask mom how gay guys have sex at

age 5 (i was watching the national news [i was a weird kid] and they

were talking about HIV in gay populations).

and my first boyfriend was just like my mom. man, i didn't realize

it until i went over to his house and he said, " i hate your mom

because she's so mean to you, " then i went home and my mom said, " i

hate your boyfriend because he's mean to you. "

i had an epiphany right then and there.

i just hate what all this knowledge about sex did to me when i was in

high school. i seriously have issues with people who find me

sexually attractive. most people would be flattered, but i am

incredibly angered by it and lose respect for whoever it is who finds

me attractive. i don't know why. the only way someone can be

attracted to me and not incur my wrath is for a) them to never say

anything about it to me and never, ever, EVER act on it. i am

only comfortable in situations where i start the relationship. i

guess i just have trust issues. BIG SURPRISE!

bink

>

>

> wrote.

> .Just knowing that I'm not

> > the " only one " allows me to accept it for what it is,which I

think now

> > is that in nada's mind,she was a " sexual person " and part of her

> > enmeshment with me was assuming that I was

also " sexual " ,therefore I

> > would understand and appreciate the " sexuality " she shared with

me.I

> > did read somewhere online (didn't save it!) that one of a BP's

many

> > acts can be a " hyper-sexual " one.It was totally like she didn't

know

> > where she left off and I began>

> **********************************************

>

> Wow, I have always complained that I felt like my nada had the " sex

talk " with me way too

> young, I was about 7 or 8.

>

> She also talked to me as if I was a hyper-sexualized as her. She

even went to the extreme

> of putting me on birth control at the age of 15. I did not fill the

Rx at that time. I also was

> allowed to date starting at FOURTEEN.

>

> My first boyfriend i slept with was a male version of my nada and

he actually seduced her

> (verbally, flattery ect) to smooth the way to get to me. I met him

a few months after mom

> took me in for BC Pills. She actuallly intervened with my dad on

this guys behalf because

> he was TEN YEARS OLDER THAN ME. when nada realized that this guy

was going to usurp

> her control over me she freaked out. Hid the Rx slip for the birth

control and everything.

> Fortunately I worked in a pharmacy so I just called my Dr.'s nurse

and claimed I had lost

> the slip, could they call me in an order at my pharmacy?

>

> I sometimes think that I picked up alot of fleas in reguards to my

sexuality. It never did fail

> to creep me out the way she would talk to me like we were best

friends talking about her

> sex life. Bleh yuck. I finally did something so outrageous that she

backed off.

>

> Nada was also one that would walk around naked alot. I swear she

even bathed with my

> brother til he was at least 5. THAT was disturbing to me. I feel

like when your child starts

> to feel self-conscience about his or her own body then you should

cover up too. My son is

> eight and I come out in a t-shirt and panties now and then but I

have not run around the

> house naked since he was really little.

>

> I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

complete puritan prigs.

> There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this

topic so far. Any puritan

> nadas out there?

>

> xoxo Carla

>

[Guest guest]

LD,

Your mother's photographing of you naked could be called child pornography, even

though she claimed it was art, and is prosecutable.

The fact that it was against your will as you got older is proof that she was

violating you. I'm sorry she victimized you in this way and then convinced you

that she was right and you were wrong.

That's the type of maniupulation that is the most insidious -- you're violated

twice --first when it happens and then when you're made wrong.

AZClown

Re: New here, and a quick question/nada's

inappropriate sexualizing

Wow. I know everyone is always saying this but -- it all sounds so

familiar!!

I had no idea that my smother's hyper-sexuality might be a component

of her BPD. Mine too used to run around naked. I remember when I

was about 8 her coming to the door to get a package from the stunned

UPS guy wearing a crochet mini-dress with nothing on underneath

" because she thought it was daddy coming home " . She's been married 5

times and each time would tell me VERY intimate details about her sex

life with whatever man she was with. Finally as an adult I told her

it was inappropriate and she stopped. She is an artist and had all

kinds of art books with photos (not paintings) of naked people just

laying around our living room. But worst of all she liked to take

" artistic " naked pictures of me. From when I was a baby until I was

about 16 she was always pressuring me to take naked pics because I

was " so beautiful " . Of course that didn't stop her tearing me down

at other times... Don't get me wrong, they weren't nasty, they WERE

artistic, but the point was I was and am a very private person and

really, really DIDN'T want to do them. You can see in some of the

pictures that I've been crying.

LJ

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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[Guest guest]

I don't even know what to respond to first...I think it's pretty

telling that this topic has so many posts.

Kyla you're so right, these abusers ripped up

their " mother " " grandfather " " uncle " cards when they did to us the

things they did. And Sara Jo, I'm sorry you've had so much heaped

on you. But isn't NC wonderful? At the very least it gives you room

to breathe & process things.

It's all familiar, the full frontal household nudity, the

accusations about my promiscuity (nada said I looked like " that

kind " of girl), and the faux modesty on her part. She still acts

the prude, says she had really wanted to join a convent in her

youth. She was married before my dad with whom she had an affair,

ending her first marriage. She denies this first marriage

completely but my bro & I called her ex some 20 years ago & verified

it. Some prude. Some saint.

I was felt up a handful of times by an uncle by marriage. He along

with my aunt & cousins were the only relatives my father had in the

city where we lived so we would spend the evening with them once a

month or so. My uncle was hearing impaired, didn't speak, &

therefore not welcome upstairs with the hearing/speaking adults.

Instead he would be downstairs in the basement at his workbench

while we kids played there as well. I was the only girl cousin and

the eldest of all the children so I guess I was about 9 when this

started. Initially I was relieved to have the attention of ANY

adult but as it continued I became apprehensive & finally told my

parents while driving home from their house one night.

What they said is so ludricrous now I'm laughing while I type:

Honey, you need to understand he's deaf and " a little funny " (I

think that meant deaf/mute = mental retardation) so

he can't help it. You just need to stay away from him. (Not sure how

I'm supposed to do that relegated to the basement with him & no

other adults but that was my problem.) Fortunately he & my aunt

divorced by the time I was 10 or 11, before things might have taken

a more serious turn.

2 years later we had moved far away & on a return visit saw some

elderly cousins on my mother's side. Nada wanted to talk privately

with the female cousin so bro & I were sent out with cousin's

husband, over 80 yo, to walk the grounds of the retirement

community. In short, he would not leave my boobs alone. Finally

after telling him no & moving his hands away numerous times, being

grabbed more forcefully, yelling & finally wriggling away from his

grasp, I ran up to the apartment & asked to speak to nada

privately. When I told her what was happening, she claimed he was

old & " probably " didn't even know what he was doing & that I should

stop being so silly & go back down so she & cuz could talk. I said

I would sit in the car & wait. Of course there was hell to pay the

remainder of the trip since I had been so " rude " . I never said

anything to my dad until just a few years ago. He was like, hmmm,

oh really? but that was it.

Even though I was split black, in some ways it did allow me a

certain amount of individualism. Bro was split white & is far more

damaged.

Nada bathed with bro until age 7 or 8 & slept with him until he was

11. Most of the time she wore something with the collar buttoned

all the way up the neck but once every so often she would appear in

the living room in either a black or red NEGLIGEE she would point

out, not just a nightie, with her 45 yo tata's all over the place &

dad taking yet another antacid. Oh, just the 'sexy' top is on, her

underwear is ragged, legs unshaved, etc. Guh-ross. Rebuffed as

always by dad, even in the NEGLIGEE she STILL slept with bro.

Nada never had the sex talk with me. Instead she bought me an

instructional book " How To Talk to Your Child About Sex " completely

not getting the point that such a book would be for the parent, not

the child. On the upside, I worked as a reproductive counselor in

college...

Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads & tampons, I

was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those elastic

belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early 80s.

When a friend's mother introduced me to more appropriate,

comfortable protection, she & her daughter were split black & our

friendships were declared over.

Just this October at age 75 Nada dressed up as a French Maid for her

Church of Christ retirement community Halloween party while claiming

she had no idea the shortie skirt, fishnets, etc. could be construed

as sexy. She claimed my daughter & I just have dirty minds.

Actually I found out later she wore the costume to the car repair

shop in the morning although the party was in the afternoon. (More

faux modesty, dressed inappropriately in a male-oriented

environment.) Luckily I went NC about that time so I didn't have to

witness THAT.

It's a wonder any of us have normal relationships. Sorry for the

length of the post, but thanks for the memories. Really. Reading

and writing these shitty events does help me in some small way to

reclaim my childhood, reclaim the truth of how crazy it really was.

[Guest guest]

,

Yeah I always said if I had ever had a girl there was NO WAY I would ever let

her date at 14

and any guy that that much older that her that showed an interest would have had

the

cops knocking on his door.

Here is the funny/ironic part. When I did start having sex, nada did a complete

180 turn

and turned into a complete prude and started making demeaning comments about

what I

wore and calling me a slut about what I wore. (a mini skirt with the double tank

one tight

with one loose socks folded over and keds, this was the eighties) I finally

figured out what

the REAL problem was a few years ago. She always fantasized about being very

promiscuous and was jealous that I was getting to do what she would not. I think

most of

my behavior surrounding my sex life was influenced by fleas back then.

I actually kept in sporadic contact with the guy that was ten years older over

the years. I

worried that he might molest his children like he had been molested as a kid by

his older

brother. When I went home a year and a half ago for an extended visit, he

started acting

like an insecure boyfriend. When I called him on it and informed him that he did

not have

that hold on me anymore he quit calling me all together. It has been NC with him

for over

a year now. I can't say I miss it.

xoxo Carla

[Guest guest]

Daughter of another Puritan Pig here!

In high school, I had a boyfriend who was both more experienced than

me and a looker. My mother spent her time wondering why he would go

out with me, and decided that he only wanted sex. Quite a way to

boost your daughter's self-esteem, no?

Not that she ever had " the talk " with me or even acknowledged that

sex existed. So I had a really very normal relationship with him (I

can see that now). This was so unusual to my mother - who didn't date

until she was set up with my dad at 32!!! Wow, that's a lot of years

before dating!!! And then they were engaged 6 months later, so the

premarital sex thing hardly had enough time to even become an issue

in her world!!! So she had no experience of the " normal " before

marriage, and is convinced that her way IS perfectly normal.

So when I had a " first love " in high school, it was obvious to her

that it was all about sex and we couldn't have anything in common.

When the relationship lasted several months, she threw me into

counseling because I was clearly going to far at a young age. When

the therapist told her that it might be helpful to me to have her

relate a story about her own dating years, her reply was, " I never

DID anything like THIS! " as if I was selling myself on the streets.

As writermanque said: good times, good times.

>

> > I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

> complete puritan prigs.

> > There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this

> topic so far. Any puritan

> > nadas out there?

> >

> > xoxo Carla

> >

>

> Okay, I'll bite. My nada was a complete puritan prig. We never

had

> a mature sex talk. I remember asking her about it once, and she

told

> me that sex hurt, gave you babies and then they had to cut them out

> with an enormous knife (I remember the way she described the knife

as

> being something more like a machete). And then once when I was in

> high school I got locked out of the house when I was out on a

date.

> I rang the doorbell, knocked on the door, and called the house but

no

> one answered. It was the dead of winter in the upper Midwest and I

> had nowhere else to go, so I spent the night at my boyfriend's

> house. Keep in mind that I was the biggest geek in the world, so

> absolutely no hanky-panky happened. The following morning I came

> back and tried to explain things to my mom, who was too busy

> screaming " Slut! " and " Whore! " to listen to my side of the story.

I

> finally asked her " Would you rather I slept outside on the

> driveway? " , to which she answered " Yes, you bitch. "

>

> Good times, good times.

>

[Guest guest]

said, " Most of the time she wore something with the collar

buttoned all the way up the neck but once every so often she would

appear in the living room in either a black or red NEGLIGEE she

would point out, not just a nightie, with her 45 yo tata's all over

the place & dad taking yet another antacid. Oh, just the 'sexy' top

is on, her underwear is ragged, legs unshaved, etc. Guh-ross. "

Your father sounds just like mine! Pretend it's not happening by

zoning out means it isn't happening in his mind. His favorite

wisdom to give me was " even when times get tough, you just keep your

head down and keep going. " Not helpful to two girls being mentally

terrorized. She liked to sit in her chair with no undies on all the

time, knees up to her chin. I learned to sit on the other side of

the room. She was also adamently against us using tampons,

insisting that it was not appropriate to do until after having sex.

Now that I am adult and have had sex, I don't get that one. Shaving

above the knees was also a no-no once she caught me (walked into the

bathroom as she loved to do).

Thanks for sharing your story...it is amazing to me how many of us

have had these experiences...none of the books about BPD really

address this facet of our experiences.

>

> I don't even know what to respond to first...I think it's pretty

> telling that this topic has so many posts.

>

> Kyla you're so right, these abusers ripped up

> their " mother " " grandfather " " uncle " cards when they did to us the

> things they did. And Sara Jo, I'm sorry you've had so much heaped

> on you. But isn't NC wonderful? At the very least it gives you

room

> to breathe & process things.

>

> It's all familiar, the full frontal household nudity, the

> accusations about my promiscuity (nada said I looked like " that

> kind " of girl), and the faux modesty on her part. She still acts

> the prude, says she had really wanted to join a convent in her

> youth. She was married before my dad with whom she had an affair,

> ending her first marriage. She denies this first marriage

> completely but my bro & I called her ex some 20 years ago &

verified

> it. Some prude. Some saint.

>

> I was felt up a handful of times by an uncle by marriage. He

along

> with my aunt & cousins were the only relatives my father had in

the

> city where we lived so we would spend the evening with them once a

> month or so. My uncle was hearing impaired, didn't speak, &

> therefore not welcome upstairs with the hearing/speaking adults.

> Instead he would be downstairs in the basement at his workbench

> while we kids played there as well. I was the only girl cousin

and

> the eldest of all the children so I guess I was about 9 when this

> started. Initially I was relieved to have the attention of ANY

> adult but as it continued I became apprehensive & finally told my

> parents while driving home from their house one night.

>

> What they said is so ludricrous now I'm laughing while I type:

> Honey, you need to understand he's deaf and " a little funny " (I

> think that meant deaf/mute = mental retardation) so

> he can't help it. You just need to stay away from him. (Not sure

how

> I'm supposed to do that relegated to the basement with him & no

> other adults but that was my problem.) Fortunately he & my aunt

> divorced by the time I was 10 or 11, before things might have

taken

> a more serious turn.

>

> 2 years later we had moved far away & on a return visit saw some

> elderly cousins on my mother's side. Nada wanted to talk

privately

> with the female cousin so bro & I were sent out with cousin's

> husband, over 80 yo, to walk the grounds of the retirement

> community. In short, he would not leave my boobs alone. Finally

> after telling him no & moving his hands away numerous times, being

> grabbed more forcefully, yelling & finally wriggling away from his

> grasp, I ran up to the apartment & asked to speak to nada

> privately. When I told her what was happening, she claimed he was

> old & " probably " didn't even know what he was doing & that I

should

> stop being so silly & go back down so she & cuz could talk. I

said

> I would sit in the car & wait. Of course there was hell to pay

the

> remainder of the trip since I had been so " rude " . I never said

> anything to my dad until just a few years ago. He was like, hmmm,

> oh really? but that was it.

>

> Even though I was split black, in some ways it did allow me a

> certain amount of individualism. Bro was split white & is far more

> damaged.

>

> Nada bathed with bro until age 7 or 8 & slept with him until he

was

> 11. Most of the time she wore something with the collar buttoned

> all the way up the neck but once every so often she would appear

in

> the living room in either a black or red NEGLIGEE she would point

> out, not just a nightie, with her 45 yo tata's all over the place

&

> dad taking yet another antacid. Oh, just the 'sexy' top is on,

her

> underwear is ragged, legs unshaved, etc. Guh-ross. Rebuffed as

> always by dad, even in the NEGLIGEE she STILL slept with bro.

>

> Nada never had the sex talk with me. Instead she bought me an

> instructional book " How To Talk to Your Child About Sex "

completely

> not getting the point that such a book would be for the parent,

not

> the child. On the upside, I worked as a reproductive counselor in

> college...

>

> Well after the advent of adhesive tabbed sanitary pads & tampons,

I

> was not permitted to use any kind of supplies except those elastic

> belts with a clip & huge postpartum pads. This was the early

80s.

> When a friend's mother introduced me to more appropriate,

> comfortable protection, she & her daughter were split black & our

> friendships were declared over.

>

> Just this October at age 75 Nada dressed up as a French Maid for

her

> Church of Christ retirement community Halloween party while

claiming

> she had no idea the shortie skirt, fishnets, etc. could be

construed

> as sexy. She claimed my daughter & I just have dirty minds.

> Actually I found out later she wore the costume to the car repair

> shop in the morning although the party was in the afternoon. (More

> faux modesty, dressed inappropriately in a male-oriented

> environment.) Luckily I went NC about that time so I didn't have

to

> witness THAT.

>

> It's a wonder any of us have normal relationships. Sorry for the

> length of the post, but thanks for the memories. Really. Reading

> and writing these shitty events does help me in some small way to

> reclaim my childhood, reclaim the truth of how crazy it really was.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you so much for your kind words and sharing your experiences

with me. This board has also been such a tremendous help to my

heart and soul, and I glad you are also finding healing here too!

I cannot believe how similar our nadas are! Any of your experiences

could have taken place in my home. There was definitely a competive

air in the house and a sexual/emotional blackmail going on (thanks

for the term - it definitely puts their relationship in a whole new

light for me). At first I was really unsure about whether or not to

even bring this kind of thing up, but whenever I sign on here,

things just start pouring out.

I was the split black for a long time and was changed to split white

when my sister began to " rebell " in our teen years. I was the

oldest so I guess that's why she felt so strongly about competing

with me. I was also old enough to be aware of what was really going

on, whereas sister was still carrying around her blanket and sucking

her thumb, thankfully oblivious to the drama. Other people have

said this on different posts and I agree - I often think I would

rather be split black than split white (though I think I am rapidly

becoming black by not calling anymore) simply because I would have

been free a lot earlier, like my sister is now. As a child it was

safer to be split white because I wasn't a target of the

annihilating rage anymore, but it was devastating ( and a HUGE

source of guilt for me) to watch my baby sister get ripped to

shreds. We formed this amazing bond by developing a secret language

of knowing looks. To this day we have similar dreams - hers are

monsters and murderers, mine are natural disasters (no doubt

residual matter from our childhood), similar tastes, and even our

husbands are long time best friends. I think having gone through

all these things together, we helped to validate each other (my new

favorite term!) and I think she and my mom helped us weather the

storm on those weekends we visited our dad.

I especially thank you for your kind words about her blaming me for

the their impending (though unfortunately non-occuring) divorce. Of

all the effed up things she said to me over the years, this seems to

have had the single biggest impact in my life.

::hugs back at you!::

> >

> > Hi !

> >

> > I know we all say this a lot on this board but, GLAD I'M NOT THE

> ONLY

> > ONE! I'm sorry you went through the same thing too. It was

always

> so

> > weird to me that a grown up was talking to me about that stuff

at

> age

> > 10, and as my sister and I got older, took pride in repeating

over

> and

> > over how great her and my father's sex life was. When she would

say

> > that kind of thing in front of him, his face would just turn

beet

> red

> > and he'd get this look on his face. Dad never reacted verbally -

> He's

> > the " Huntsman " (from Understanding the Borderline Mother).

>

> [[[ Hhhm,yes,that sounds familiar! My nada liked to brag about

> how " liberated " their sex life was (this was the 70s

and " liberated "

> was the big buzzword).Her big mouthed bragging definitely

embarassed

> fada.He never reacted verbally,either,although he is more of

a " King "

> and at times a " Fisherman " .He'd just kind of sink into the floor

and

> look away.]]]

> >

> > She seemed to assume that our relationship with our father was

in

> some

> > way sexual (completely untrue) and loved to compete with my

sister

> and

> > I for his affection. I remember very clearly that my sister

(who

> was

> > 6 at the time) was sitting on his lap watching TV with

> him...stepnada

> > walked into the room and gleefully declared " My turn on daddy's

> lap! " ,

> > kicked my sister off, and straddled him. She then proceeded to

make

> > out with him for several minutes. Ick. I was told a few times

that

> > " wives are more important than daughters " - a sentiment she still

> > believes since she repeated it too me during one of her " pep "

talks

> > right before my wedding. When I threw a fit about not being

able to

> > go to sleep with my dad (I was seven and he had just married

her),

> she

> > told me I wasn't allowed to do that anymore and slammed the door

in

> my

> > face. Like the kid that I was I screamed and cried loudly, all

the

> > while her company was in the living room listening. Dad and her

> had a

> > HORRENDOUS fight the next morning - one of the only times I've

ever

> > heard him angry - he punched his fist through the bathroom door

and

> > left, leaving her to take me to school. She told me that if

they

> got

> > divorced over the fight, that I would be the one to blame. After

> > having just gone through my parent's divorce as a six year old,

and

> > both parent's rapid remarriages to domineering individuals, and

> still

> > going through the typical phase of believing that I was

responsible

> > for my mom and dad's divorce, I have her affirming to me that

> children

> > cause divorces. Wonderful. So glad my dad left me alone with

her

> > that morning. When my mom confronted him about her saying that

to

> me,

> > he said " she would NEVER say anything like that to the girls.

She

> > LOVES the girls. "

>

> [[[ ,what your stepnada said to you about being " to blame "

for

> any divorce is complete emotional abuse.What a

> terrible,cruel,insensitive thing to say to a little six year old

girl

> whose parents had just divorced.BPs are so very good at homing in

on

> one's most aching vulnerablities and driving that knife right

in.And

> then to have your father pretty much deny the reality of it for

the

> sake of some fantasy of your stepnada being this

> wonderful,loving " mother " .I'm very sorry that happened to you.Just

> reading it makes me hurt for you.]]]

> >

> > said, " she was practically radiating horniness,which

made

> me

> > want to smack her or scream or throw up or something. " God, I

felt

> > that way all the time!! She was constantly grabbing my father's

> butt

> > or crotch in front of my sister and I, which made us extremely

> > uncomfortable. He kept his mouth shut, because he knew that

> rejecting

> > her physical advances could and did cause horrible door-slamming

> > fights. If he didn't kiss her each time he walked by her chair,

she

> > would declare in her pouty (though serious) voice that " you

don't

> love

> > me anymore. " It was constant.

>

> [[[ Yes,my nada was like this,too.She was always pawing fada in

> front of us.She seemed to like making us all squirm.She had the

power

> and the control.And yet,like you said,it was never enough and

she'd

> pout and use her own fey but menacing voice and say that same

thing

> if fada didn't fawn all over her, " You don't love me anymore " (with

> hint of possible temper tantrum if he didn't respond

> immediately)...Fada was permitted to spend some quality time with

my

> brother but never with me because that was too much of a

threat.She

> was always holding over his head that such and such guy

> was " interested " in her or that she wished she could have an

affair

> with so and so.She would do just that,too,if he continued

to " ignore "

> her.She'd have no other choice.Maybe so and so would " treat me the

> way I deserve to be treated " .Fada was like her sex slave in some

> ways.She'd even start arguments with him in front of us about " how

> long " it had been since the last time--and what did he want? Did

he

> WANT her to have an affair? Is that what he wanted? She'd do

it,for

> sure,if that's what he wanted.Constant emotional/sexual

blackmail.At

> the same time,constant showing off and provocative behavior and

> always this attitude towards me regarding fada of " back off-he's

> mine " .As if we were in competition! She seemed to think that a

wife

> had to fight and act out and engage in histrionics to prevent the

> daughter from taking her place...It makes NO sense.It is sick.]]]

> >

> > , your stepnada walking into your brother's room naked

is

> > appalling! How did HE feel about that???!! How must that have

> > affected his sexual development? OMG I can't even imagine!

Poor

> kid.

> > My stepnada also demanded for us to be little adults. I hate

that

> she

> > stole my childhood from me so early.

>

> [[[ That does seem to be the essential issue in all of this: our

> stolen childhoods.That our innocence and openness was so very

sullied

> and muddied and betrayed.Your stepnada sounds so similar to

mine,they

> must both be a certain " type " of BP.I'm sure there are archetypes

> beyond the great ones sketched out in " UBM " ...As for my brother,he

is

> still so thoroughly enmeshed with nada (and fada),I don't think

there

> is much hope of him waking up to reality any day soon.I was the

split

> black child and I used to think that the little brat had it pretty

> good; he was so " spoiled " by our parents but lately I think more

that

> the poor soul never had much of a chance.He still has this sort of

> weird incestuous relationship with nada.He believed that

she " loved "

> him but I think that she used him just as much as she used me,just

in

> different ways.He was an object to her,too,for her own use.He

married

> a woman who is so much like nada but he remains bound to nada and

is

> devoted to her.It's very sad.He doesn't understand that she is a

very

> sick woman.He won't even hear of it.She is a paragon of motherhood.

>

> Thank you again,,for sharing your experiences.This has

been

> very healing for me.I really appreciate your honesty and

willingness

> to share.We've both been traumatized by all of this.As others have

> said,I'm sorry you qualify,but I thank you for being here and for

> sharing...

>

> {{{{HUGS}}}}

>

>

[Guest guest]

OMG! I totally forgot about shaving! The first year we lived in

Phoenix I was in junior high. Everyone wore shorts most all the time

- even to school - and my leg hair had become a subject of ridicule.

The response to asking permission to shave my legs was a lengthy

interrogation by Nada & dad, him peering over his glasses at the

dinner table demanding to know my intentions over this leg-shaving

business. (Accusing, poking at me in the air with his fork) I wasn't

going to be waving them around in some boy's face, now, was I?

What????? I WAS 12, FAT, NERDY, AND MY MOTHER DRESSED ME LIKE A

STREET PERSON. What is he talking about? I can't get a boy close

enough to lend me a pencil! In the end it was REQUEST DENIED. I was

to be permitted Nair only, and only to the knee, and no " funny

stuff " .

It's as if our nadas & fadas really worked at trying to make us hate

every part of being female, every part of ourselves involved with

the things that define us as female: breasts, periods, sexual

response, pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, MOTHERING. I agree with

you there hasn't been enough written about it. There's got to be a

ton of material...

Thank you for another piece of the puzzle.

[Guest guest]

> It's as if our nadas & fadas really worked at trying to make us hate

> every part of being female, every part of ourselves involved with

> the things that define us as female: breasts, periods, sexual

> response, pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, MOTHERING.

i'm very much trying to get over the idea of fetuses as parasitic

invasions...

BUT when i have kids, i'm going to be the best dad EVER.

bink

[Guest guest]

My nada is one of those puritan prigs, as I've mentioned briefly in

the clothes shopping thread. The " sex talk " consisted of her scowling

at me and tossing a book from Planned Parenthood at me when I was like

16. She seemed frightened by the idea of sexuality, telling me when i

was 19 that women who were promiscuous had a higher chance of

developing cervical cancer (I had done it with 1 guy). The fact that I

had already had cancer as a child didn't seem to phase her when she

made this statement. She freaked out when I stayed at my then

boyfriend's place (now husband) for a month when I was apartment

hunting. She was like " How do you have any privacy? " I lied and said I

slept on the couch. I was 21 at the time.

When I was 20, she threatened to stop giving me what little money she

did when I wanted to move into a shared apartment with my female

friend and her male friend. She freaked out and started shouting about

the dangers of living with a man in the same apartment, and then

started making racist remarks about my friend's male friend. Instead,

I moved into a small room in the home of a family. Apparently that was

OK with her, even though the father turned out to be a verbally

abusive rageaholic. He would scowl at me and make nasty remarks.

Finally, one day he blew up at me, bursting into my room and shouting

at me. I moved out soon after that (back to the dorms). My nada really

enjoyed swooping in and " saving " me from that situation. Of course,

she didn't bother saying anything to the guy about his behavior

towards me, nor did she accept any responsibility for not allowing me

to live with my friend. She much preferred playing psychologist to the

guy's wife and trying to understand his feelings. It was like great!

thanks for supporting me in a situation which you basically caused!

Anyway, back to the point... my nada used to walk around naked in

front of me before or after a shower for as long as I can remember.

She'd expect me to sit there and have a conversation with her with her

slack belly fat hanging over her hairy pubic area. It was completely

repulsive. I was also expected to have conversations with her while

she was using the restroom undressed with the door open. She would

insist that my brother and I not lock the bathroom door or bedroom

door because " we don't lock doors in this house. " I guess she expected

me to put my hygienic activities on display like she did. I would lock

the bathroom door anyway, and tried to use the bathroom quickly so she

wouldn't notice that the door was locked.

Oh, and of course, no privacy in the dressing room when shopping. If I

tried to cover myself while changing, she'd tell me to stop being so

ashamed of my body or that I shouldn't be embarrassed in front of her.

Of course, then she'd start with the remarks about my body. It's

amazing that she never made the connection.

qwerty

>

> I wonder how many other of our nadas were either hyper sexual or

complete puritan prigs.

> There doesn't seen to be much middle or healthy ground on this topic

so far. Any puritan

> nadas out there?

>

> xoxo Carla

>