Re: Anyone put a restraining order on nada?

May 5, 2008

Hi! Good Job, I thought you did a great job with what you wrote. The next

step is to ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore.

No need to worry about the kids if the public school they can't release

them, just make sure someone is watching them otherwise.

Good work, hugs, gs

>

> Has anyone obtained a restraining order against their nada without a

> catastophic event? We live 3 blocks from nada & fada and I have been

> very LC for 2-3 years. Nada hada been just leaving us alone for the

> last 9 months. Even after having them to our house with the entire

> family for Christmas, they stayed away. Then we decided to meet them

> with my brother & his family at Easter and since then she has

> been " running " into me when I pick up the kids, dropping things on

> the front porch and then stopped by to drop off a gift a couple weeks

> ago.

>

> Below is the email I wrote to her after she dropped by unannounced

> and a couple weeks later she wrote the response below. We have

> changed our locks and made it clear to her that she is not to come

> into contact with any of my family without permission. She was doing

> pretty well. But her disregard for my boundaries in this email makes

> me wonder if I need to take it to the next level.

>

> Anyone have any legal background that they could offer advice? Is

> this enough for me to be granted a restraining order? Any other word

> of wisdom? I am back to having terrible dreams and the rest hoping

> she will stay away from my 3 young kids.

>

> My Email to them:

> Mom and Dad,

>

> Please request my permission in the future to drop items off at my

> house, come to my home or on my property. This may require more

> advanced notice for delivery of birthday items in the future. There

> is also always the option of mailing birthday items. You are also

> required to have my permission to enter my children¡¯s places of

> school/activities or come in contact with them in any way.

>

> Driving by or facilitating chance encounters is a stalking, bullying

> and intimidating behavior. If you cannot control and avoid these

> behaviors, maybe you should consider taking steps that will make

> these behaviors less tempting for you.

>

> I might normally be inclined to say something nice here or thank you

> for Ben¡¯s birthday gift however you seem to read these simple acts as

> a sign that you no longer need to be respectful of the above things I

> have requested from you.

>

> Thank you in advance,

> [my name]

>

> Her response email:

> [my name]:

>

> I first wrote this 4/22, and for some reason didn¡¯t/couldn¡¯t send.

> Today, we went to see [nada's counselor]. It helps to talk.

> Perhaps you know [my brother's] Schedule. If you are available &

> want to come Sunday after the race, we Welcome you & Your Family.

> I¡¯ll have pulled pork sandwiches, fruit¡¦etc. We¡¯d like to offer

> our cottage facilities to you & perhaps your friends while we are

> away. We¡¯ll be gone June 12-July 3rd & possibly head for the lake July

> 4th. It¡¯s also available Aug. 8-15. ¢½Mom

>

> 4-22-08

> We did want to reach out to you & your family. ¡°Hugs from __.¡±

> Realizing Sat. we hadn¡¯t again mailed [my son's] card early enough to

> be there for His Birthday. We were gone & tired¡¦didn¡¯t get it done.

> I wrapped the gift quickly before meeting someone for dinner & we

> dropped it off on our way back home. There is a natural feeling to

> want to connect w/family after being w/your Cousins, Aunt & Uncle.

> I¡¯d like to share w/you messages from all of the ________¡¦there

> greetings. I¡¯d like for you to see the _______ that _____ Made for

> us. We can¡¯t call unless there is a death. We¡¯ve rarely gotten a

> response to email. Dropping off a Birthday Gift isn¡¯t very

> satisfying for any of us. I¡¯d like for you to drop by as you did

> w/___ wanting to stop by ¡°Grandpa & Grandma around the corner.¡± You

> are Welcome.

>

> I¡¯ve been told by a counselor that we should find out when school

> activities are¡¦if you don¡¯t let us know. ArePublic Schools off-

> limits to Grandparents?

> I am offended & concerned that you areindicating there have been

> chance encounters facilitated. Love. Mom & Dad

>

May 5, 2008

that second letter is really offensive. How dare she, really. I guess

she can take you to court and get a visitation order. Without one, if

you say stay away, she needs to stay away. I'd be furious about this

if I were you, it's incredibly disrespectful.

May 5, 2008

sorry, responding again, that really touched a nerve with me. I don't

know why I am personalizing this so much but I am. I guess you will

have to spell it out for her. Because it sounds to me like what she is

saying is 'I am going to call the school and find out when the events

are and then I will show up whether you like it or not, because I am

their grandparent and I have Rights. " No matter what lunacy this may

produce. Total and complete disrespect.

Sorry if I am over-personalizing. ((((hugs))))

May 6, 2008

>

> sorry, responding again, that really touched a nerve with me. I don't

> know why I am personalizing this so much but I am. I guess you will

> have to spell it out for her. Because it sounds to me like what she

is

> saying is 'I am going to call the school and find out when the events

> are and then I will show up whether you like it or not, because I am

> their grandparent and I have Rights. " No matter what lunacy this may

> produce. Total and complete disrespect.

>

> Sorry if I am over-personalizing. ((((hugs))))

>

May 6, 2008

Woops - I got an interruption there and sent a blank message. Yeah,

that last part about coming to my kids' school activities is what

really got to me as well. She is just incapable of making the

connection that her inability to respect me is why I can't have her

in my life.

I keep having this flash back to last year about this time. I hadn't

had much contact with my nada but my grandmother passed away and I

had to see nada at the funeral. We were hanging out with relatives

in the hotel lobby area talking and I was doing my best to be nice to

nada. My aunt and I had been talking about our scrapbooking and

archiving ventures as I am a CM consultant. My nada jumped in and

took over the conversation by asking questions. I then began

answering her questions only to have her cut me off and jump into

someone elses conversation in the middle of my answering her. Such

blatant disregard for me as a human being. Is it any wonder I am

messed up?

Ok - back to nada potentially coming to my kids' school. I have been

thinking for a long time that I need to alert some of the people at

school that she is not to have contact with them. Now I wonder if

that would be enough. That is when I think I need to pursue a

restraining order.

Karin

> >

> > sorry, responding again, that really touched a nerve with me. I

don't

> > know why I am personalizing this so much but I am. I guess you

will

> > have to spell it out for her. Because it sounds to me like what

she

> is

> > saying is 'I am going to call the school and find out when the

events

> > are and then I will show up whether you like it or not, because I

am

> > their grandparent and I have Rights. " No matter what lunacy this

may

> > produce. Total and complete disrespect.

> >

> > Sorry if I am over-personalizing. ((((hugs))))

> >

>

May 6, 2008

No, I haven't personally went and applied for a restraining order against my

nada.

Before you apply for one, you are going to need to file several Police reports

that demonstrate her stalking behavior. You will need to establish a pattern

and history of this type of behavior. I would bring a minimum of (3) Police

reports with me to court to file for the restraining order. I would also check

out the stalking laws in your state so you know how to explain yourself when you

go to speak to the Police. You will need to explain to the Police that your

mother is mentally ill and will hurt your children and this is why you have

requested that she stay away.

When I go to apply for the restaining order, I would bring (2) or (3) signed

affidavits from people you know stating some of the bizarre behavior she has

done and how it has directly affected you and your children. Remember if your

goal is a restaining order for yourself and the children, you will need to prove

she is a danger towards both of you (that danger can be stalking). I live in

New York State and grandparents do not have any rights in this state. I would

also look into the rights of grandparents in your state. Your mother could

petition the court for visitation if your state allows this (I think most states

do not allow this, but I would be prepared).

I would also look into speaking to an Advocate (maybe a domestic violence

advocate) in your area for advice. This person would be familiar with the court

system and your state's laws. Some advocates will go to court with you to help

you obtain a restraining order. An advocate could meet with you and your

children and understand the threat your mother is.

P.S. I think your mother made up the comment about being told be a counselor

to find out when school events are. I would view this as an indirect threat

(either you invite me or I will show up and you will sorry!). You may want to

speak to the Social Workers at the school about the problem with your mother (to

make them aware). I would also send a note in to the school that your children

are not permitted to visit with (or be released to) your mother during school

hours (this includes recess, school plays, etc.). My grandnada would show up

during my son's recess and walk onto the playground to visit with him when he

was in grade school. Remember, you cannot stop their behaviors but you must put

into place precautions for your children.

patinage4me wrote:

Has anyone obtained a restraining order against their nada without a

catastophic event? We live 3 blocks from nada & fada and I have been

very LC for 2-3 years. Nada hada been just leaving us alone for the

last 9 months. Even after having them to our house with the entire

family for Christmas, they stayed away. Then we decided to meet them

with my brother & his family at Easter and since then she has

been " running " into me when I pick up the kids, dropping things on

the front porch and then stopped by to drop off a gift a couple weeks

ago.

Below is the email I wrote to her after she dropped by unannounced

and a couple weeks later she wrote the response below. We have

changed our locks and made it clear to her that she is not to come

into contact with any of my family without permission. She was doing

pretty well. But her disregard for my boundaries in this email makes

me wonder if I need to take it to the next level.

Anyone have any legal background that they could offer advice? Is

this enough for me to be granted a restraining order? Any other word

of wisdom? I am back to having terrible dreams and the rest hoping

she will stay away from my 3 young kids.

My Email to them:

Mom and Dad,

Please request my permission in the future to drop items off at my

house, come to my home or on my property. This may require more

advanced notice for delivery of birthday items in the future. There

is also always the option of mailing birthday items. You are also

required to have my permission to enter my children¡¯s places of

school/activities or come in contact with them in any way.

Driving by or facilitating chance encounters is a stalking, bullying

and intimidating behavior. If you cannot control and avoid these

behaviors, maybe you should consider taking steps that will make

these behaviors less tempting for you.

I might normally be inclined to say something nice here or thank you

for Ben¡¯s birthday gift however you seem to read these simple acts as

a sign that you no longer need to be respectful of the above things I

have requested from you.

Thank you in advance,

[my name]

Her response email:

[my name]:

I first wrote this 4/22, and for some reason didn¡¯t/couldn¡¯t send.

Today, we went to see [nada's counselor]. It helps to talk.

Perhaps you know [my brother's] Schedule. If you are available &

want to come Sunday after the race, we Welcome you & Your Family.

I¡¯ll have pulled pork sandwiches, fruit¡¦etc. We¡¯d like to offer

our cottage facilities to you & perhaps your friends while we are

away. We¡¯ll be gone June 12-July 3rd & possibly head for the lake July

4th. It¡¯s also available Aug. 8-15. ¢½Mom

4-22-08

We did want to reach out to you & your family. ¡°Hugs from __.¡±

Realizing Sat. we hadn¡¯t again mailed [my son's] card early enough to

be there for His Birthday. We were gone & tired¡¦didn¡¯t get it done.

I wrapped the gift quickly before meeting someone for dinner & we

dropped it off on our way back home. There is a natural feeling to

want to connect w/family after being w/your Cousins, Aunt & Uncle.

I¡¯d like to share w/you messages from all of the ________¡¦there

greetings. I¡¯d like for you to see the _______ that _____ Made for

us. We can¡¯t call unless there is a death. We¡¯ve rarely gotten a

response to email. Dropping off a Birthday Gift isn¡¯t very

satisfying for any of us. I¡¯d like for you to drop by as you did

w/___ wanting to stop by ¡°Grandpa & Grandma around the corner.¡± You

are Welcome.

I¡¯ve been told by a counselor that we should find out when school

activities are¡¦if you don¡¯t let us know. ArePublic Schools off-

limits to Grandparents?

I am offended & concerned that you areindicating there have been

chance encounters facilitated. Love. Mom & Dad

---------------------------------

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

May 6, 2008

YES! I have filed restraining orders against both my nada and DH's mother

(not really BPD....may borderline BPD...but mostly just narcissistic and

vindictive. Anytime she involves my children in anything it is because she

has an agenda pre-planned that benefits her in some way......I kind of let

it happen at the beginning....she would " borrow " my children to go see a

disney movie, which at the time I thought was endearing...until one day when

" borrowing " my children turned into " borrowing my children without my

permission...long story there)

So as far as Nada is concerned....yes...i have filed order after order after

order. After reading the last thing she sent you I would go and file an

order of ex parte the next time you get a chance. She is making it clear to

you that she REFUSES to respect the boundaries you have set for your

children and if she will go so far as to put you on notice that it is a

public school, therefore she doesn't need to respect your

requests....well...she has pretty much just told you to sit and spin. When

this has happened to me, I have found their behavior to just get more and

more reprehensible. Prepare for them to " up the ante " so to speak.

Now, when filing for ex-parte you need to remember a few

things....first...you don't need any type of proof...if your law enforcement

agency feels that you are genuine in your feelings of fear, that is all you

need. As I said though, prepare for them to " up the ante " (calling in CPS

with accusations of neglect or abuse, filing for " grandparent custody " ) Most

individuals with BPD are narcissistic so keep in mind that " appearance is

everything " to them...and remember that they also tend to insist on having

the last word. Also....keep in mind that " older " law enforcement officials

may sympathetically rule in the grand-parent's favor...you may get the

lecture that you are an ungrateful daughter...or you may get the " you need

to love your child more than you hate your mother " speech. Most

importantly, please remember that a restraining order isn't an invisible

fence. It is merely a judicial order, served to the party in question

advising them to stay away. Nothing can be done unless the person(s) served

violates the order. This means that, let's say they show up at your child's

school function. You would have to call law enforcement (make sure you have

a copy of your court order) at THAT moment, have them come in, explain to

them that they are in violation of the court order, show them proof and then

have law enforcement take it from there. This could open a can of worms

that would make life much, much worse...now you have everyone present

(including your children and their friends, teachers, and their family

members) witnessing an event that they could not possibly understanding and

a " jumping to conclusions " event that would most likely last the rest of the

school year. Unfortunately, when people witness an event that they cannot

understand, they end up filling in the blanks themselves and viola....

you've got yourself a bonafide BPD version of the Salem Witch trials, and

without fail sweet little grandma has turned the tables on you. I'm not

saying not to do it...I'm just saying, before you make a decision maybe

think it through and decide if the local school is where you would like to

choose to be your setting for your next battle. I don't know all the

details...perhaps a very PUBLIC place would be the ideal setting....I have

to deal with 2 BPD's....one would be to scared to risk a public

confrontation...the other would bask in it's glow.

Only you know the answer for what is best for your situation. Ultimately

though, you have to make the statement very loud and clear that YOU are in

charge, and YOU make the decisions. I have had these orders of protection

ordered on both nada and nada-in-law....neither have gone down without a

fight...and both fight very dirty.

Good luck, Stay Strong...and keep us posted, ok?

Kisses and Nibbles,

Bunny

2008/5/6 Cook :

> No, I haven't personally went and applied for a restraining order

> against my nada.

>

> Before you apply for one, you are going to need to file several Police

> reports that demonstrate her stalking behavior. You will need to establish a

> pattern and history of this type of behavior. I would bring a minimum of (3)

> Police reports with me to court to file for the restraining order. I would

> also check out the stalking laws in your state so you know how to explain

> yourself when you go to speak to the Police. You will need to explain to the

> Police that your mother is mentally ill and will hurt your children and this

> is why you have requested that she stay away.

>

> When I go to apply for the restaining order, I would bring (2) or (3)

> signed affidavits from people you know stating some of the bizarre behavior

> she has done and how it has directly affected you and your children.

> Remember if your goal is a restaining order for yourself and the children,

> you will need to prove she is a danger towards both of you (that danger can

> be stalking). I live in New York State and grandparents do not have any

> rights in this state. I would also look into the rights of grandparents in

> your state. Your mother could petition the court for visitation if your

> state allows this (I think most states do not allow this, but I would be

> prepared).

>

> I would also look into speaking to an Advocate (maybe a domestic violence

> advocate) in your area for advice. This person would be familiar with the

> court system and your state's laws. Some advocates will go to court with you

> to help you obtain a restraining order. An advocate could meet with you and

> your children and understand the threat your mother is.

>

> P.S. I think your mother made up the comment about being told be a

> counselor to find out when school events are. I would view this as an

> indirect threat (either you invite me or I will show up and you will

> sorry!). You may want to speak to the Social Workers at the school about the

> problem with your mother (to make them aware). I would also send a note in

> to the school that your children are not permitted to visit with (or be

> released to) your mother during school hours (this includes recess, school

> plays, etc.). My grandnada would show up during my son's recess and walk

> onto the playground to visit with him when he was in grade school. Remember,

> you cannot stop their behaviors but you must put into place precautions for

> your children.

>

> patinage4me <patinage4me@... <patinage4me%40yahoo.com>> wrote: