Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Dang. That explains a LOT. Amy shame I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and spouses of BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an indication that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that is because of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is probably a BPD that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these years later: " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the person she was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they deserved the punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' in her mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this mental manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel guilt, again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of being abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she felt 'wonderfully' powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Sounds like this person borrowed a page from the Nazi Pogrom book. Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. An animalistic reaction to normal human misunderstandings. I actually had a chill run up my spine reading that. That mental manipulation is just plain evil. shame I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and spouses of BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an indication that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that is because of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is probably a BPD that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these years later: " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the person she was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they deserved the punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' in her mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this mental manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel guilt, again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of being abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she felt 'wonderfully' powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 I've noticed that Yeti is incapable of feeling guilt. She sees others as furniture... > Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is > an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of > disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 Yeti: " Welcome to my home. This leopard spotted footstool is actually made from the skin of my son . " Visitor: " Uh gotta go. " , " It's okay, i'm right here under this foot stool. She THINKS it's my skin but I'm right here. Don't tell. " > > I've noticed that Yeti is incapable of feeling guilt. She sees others as > furniture... > > > > > Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is > > an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of > > disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2008 Report Share Posted May 19, 2008 > > I've noticed that Yeti is incapable of feeling guilt. She sees others as > furniture... > > they don't, and I've never heard an adequate explanation for it. It is nature or nurture, psychological or neuroligical or what? How does it happen. But they are like one of those animals in nature that look like one species but are really another. And you don't find out until it's too late. And then half the time they still look so good that most people don't believe they are as evil as you say they are. So then other people start to think that *you* are the one that is wacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Hhhm...I spent most of my childhood feeling as if nada had fundamentally " banished " me from her consciousness.That seems like such a destructive and bizarre reaction to have to your own child that I have wondered if perhaps I was myself taking a too extreme view of it and now I see that...no...it really was just that and I thank you GirlscoutCowboy for sharing the excerpt from that book and giving me validation for what I KNEW but could not really wrap my head around because " making someone not exist " ,let alone a small child,is not at all the way I function...and it's very difficult to impossible for me to understand but Lilly Blue is right,it's demonization straight out of the Nazi handbook. Nada told me,when I was an adult,that when I was a little girl she had " purposefully " torn me down to make her feel better about herself...how tearing down a vulnerable child could make anyone feel " better " about themself is beyond me but she sounded quite proud of herself and of the solution she had found to what I suppose was an abandonment issue...she also told me that day that she had felt " jealous " of me because I possessed " qualities " she didn't have,such as the ability to empathize with others and feel compassion and that this made her want to destroy me....evil? Yes,it is a species of evil. As for feeling shame,I think there is a huge distinction to be made between the experience of " toxic shame " as opposed to " normal " shame.I know the difference between feeling some shame about having made the wrong or a poor choice and feeling that awful " toxic shame " rising up unbidden by me.That does come from having been a KO.For me,it comes from not being allowed to have my own feelings about WHATEVER,from being treated for years like a worthless non-entity who had no right to her own pain,tears,anger,joy,innate talents or proclivities,sense of self...and now I experience that sudden " toxic shame " whenever someone in my life expresses affection for me,for example...I blush and writhe internally and find myself wondering why in the hell I feel so put on the spot,when I don't WANT to feel that way; when logically I am ok with it but emotionally I'm at a loss...or when I am honored or acknowledged for something I've done at work and immediately feel as if I huge spotlight has been aimed at me and my reaction is to want to sink into the ground...and I dislike myself intensely for being so neurotic when I want to be gracious about it... A switch of " toxic shame " gets thrown on all because a (physically) adult woman (nada) vampirized the psyche of a developing child (me) for the purposes of her own self-aggrandizement or to serve the sick agenda of her own primitive dysfunction.SHE made the wrong choice and I really doubt that BP's who abuse their own children have the capacity for healthy,adult shame--they can only foist their toxicity onto easy (and preferably helpless) targets...what kind of " power " is that? There is nothing wonderful about it--it is simply sick. (But it feels good to vent and yes,being made not to exist is profoundly shaming to mind body and soul: it is a violation of BEING) > > Sounds like this person borrowed a page from the Nazi Pogrom book. Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. An animalistic reaction to normal human misunderstandings. > I actually had a chill run up my spine reading that. That mental manipulation is just plain evil. > > > > > shame > > > I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive > Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and spouses of > BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an indication > that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. > > The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that is because > of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is probably a BPD > that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these years later: > > " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the person she > was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they deserved the > punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' in her > mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this mental > manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel guilt, > again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of being > abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she felt 'wonderfully' > powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " > > wow > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 I blush and writhe internally and find myself wondering why in the hell I feel so put on the spot... Your description of your experience matches mine--it makes me furious that we had go through life constantly feeling bad when we should have been feeling proud & pleased. Shame takes away our right to shine and our ability to be truly successful: success = exposure; exposure = ridicule (at least in our experience). But most people are not out to get us. There is a lot more support out there than we think. There are lots of people who would be delighted to help us if we finally learn to trust. (Unfortunately, we naturally gravitate towards damaged people...but we can learn to recognize the danger signs and learn to stay away.) I think we can undo some of the damage by loving ourselves. It's silly, but I sometimes pretend that I am 'me, the mother' taking care of 'me, the child'. I'm trying to fast-forward through my childhood and undo as much damage as possible. I given 'my child' things that my nada ruined for me, like a charm bracelet. I've replaced items in my wardrobe that my nada threw away. The material things were often symbolic of bigger emotional issues. It feels good to indulge myself. There's a lot of healing that remains. I want to learn to cook well & enjoy food. (for nada food preparation always came with a big dollop of guilt.) I may go back to school. In college, I was so stressed out, that the most I could handle was art school. It would be great to go back & study biology! I was always waiting to be rescued. I'm not going to wait around any longer. I'm coming to my own rescue. Try to keep looking forward. We can recapture some of our lost time, energy, & emotional well-being if we only start loving ourselves. > > > > Sounds like this person borrowed a page from the Nazi Pogrom book. > Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is > an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of > disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. An animalistic > reaction to normal human misunderstandings. > > I actually had a chill run up my spine reading that. That > mental manipulation is just plain evil. > > > > > > > > > > shame > > > > > > I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive > > Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and > spouses of > > BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an > indication > > that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. > > > > The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that > is because > > of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is > probably a BPD > > that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these > years later: > > > > " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the > person she > > was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they > deserved the > > punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' > in her > > mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this > mental > > manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel > guilt, > > again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of > being > > abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she > felt 'wonderfully' > > powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " > > > > wow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 , i could have written every single word. Wow. > > Hhhm...I spent most of my childhood feeling as if nada had > fundamentally " banished " me from her consciousness.That seems like > such a destructive and bizarre reaction to have to your own child > that I have wondered if perhaps I was myself taking a too extreme > view of it and now I see that...no...it really was just that and I > thank you GirlscoutCowboy for sharing the excerpt from that book and > giving me validation for what I KNEW but could not really wrap my > head around because " making someone not exist " ,let alone a small > child,is not at all the way I function...and it's very difficult to > impossible for me to understand but Lilly Blue is right,it's > demonization straight out of the Nazi handbook. > > Nada told me,when I was an adult,that when I was a little girl she > had " purposefully " torn me down to make her feel better about > herself...how tearing down a vulnerable child could make anyone > feel " better " about themself is beyond me but she sounded quite proud > of herself and of the solution she had found to what I suppose was an > abandonment issue...she also told me that day that she had > felt " jealous " of me because I possessed " qualities " she didn't > have,such as the ability to empathize with others and feel compassion > and that this made her want to destroy me....evil? Yes,it is a > species of evil. > > As for feeling shame,I think there is a huge distinction to be made > between the experience of " toxic shame " as opposed to " normal " > shame.I know the difference between feeling some shame about having > made the wrong or a poor choice and feeling that awful " toxic shame " > rising up unbidden by me.That does come from having been a KO.For > me,it comes from not being allowed to have my own feelings about > WHATEVER,from being treated for years like a worthless non-entity who > had no right to her own pain,tears,anger,joy,innate talents or > proclivities,sense of self...and now I experience that sudden " toxic > shame " whenever someone in my life expresses affection for me,for > example...I blush and writhe internally and find myself wondering why > in the hell I feel so put on the spot,when I don't WANT to feel that > way; when logically I am ok with it but emotionally I'm at a > loss...or when I am honored or acknowledged for something I've done > at work and immediately feel as if I huge spotlight has been aimed at > me and my reaction is to want to sink into the ground...and I dislike > myself intensely for being so neurotic when I want to be gracious > about it... > > A switch of " toxic shame " gets thrown on all because a (physically) > adult woman (nada) vampirized the psyche of a developing child (me) > for the purposes of her own self-aggrandizement or to serve the sick > agenda of her own primitive dysfunction.SHE made the wrong choice and > I really doubt that BP's who abuse their own children have the > capacity for healthy,adult shame--they can only foist their toxicity > onto easy (and preferably helpless) targets...what kind of " power " is > that? There is nothing wonderful about it--it is simply sick. > > (But it feels good to vent and yes,being made not to exist is > profoundly shaming to mind body and soul: it is a violation of BEING) > > > > > > Sounds like this person borrowed a page from the Nazi Pogrom book. > Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is > an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of > disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. An animalistic > reaction to normal human misunderstandings. > > I actually had a chill run up my spine reading that. That > mental manipulation is just plain evil. > > > > > > > > > > shame > > > > > > I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive > > Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and > spouses of > > BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an > indication > > that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. > > > > The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that > is because > > of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is > probably a BPD > > that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these > years later: > > > > " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the > person she > > was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they > deserved the > > punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' > in her > > mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this > mental > > manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel > guilt, > > again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of > being > > abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she > felt 'wonderfully' > > powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " > > > > wow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 Ha ha, am I a KO or what? I have to clarify, I could have written it except for " thanks Girlscout. " I can't handle it - you are doing a great job yourself. > > , i could have written every single word. Wow. > > >> >> Hhhm...I spent most of my childhood feeling as if nada had >> fundamentally " banished " me from her consciousness.That seems like >> such a destructive and bizarre reaction to have to your own child >> that I have wondered if perhaps I was myself taking a too extreme >> view of it and now I see that...no...it really was just that and I >> thank you GirlscoutCowboy for sharing the excerpt from that book and >> giving me validation for what I KNEW but could not really wrap my >> head around because " making someone not exist " ,let alone a small >> child,is not at all the way I function...and it's very difficult to >> impossible for me to understand but Lilly Blue is right,it's >> demonization straight out of the Nazi handbook. >> >> Nada told me,when I was an adult,that when I was a little girl she >> had " purposefully " torn me down to make her feel better about >> herself...how tearing down a vulnerable child could make anyone >> feel " better " about themself is beyond me but she sounded quite proud >> of herself and of the solution she had found to what I suppose was an >> abandonment issue...she also told me that day that she had >> felt " jealous " of me because I possessed " qualities " she didn't >> have,such as the ability to empathize with others and feel compassion >> and that this made her want to destroy me....evil? Yes,it is a >> species of evil. >> >> As for feeling shame,I think there is a huge distinction to be made >> between the experience of " toxic shame " as opposed to " normal " >> shame.I know the difference between feeling some shame about having >> made the wrong or a poor choice and feeling that awful " toxic shame " >> rising up unbidden by me.That does come from having been a KO.For >> me,it comes from not being allowed to have my own feelings about >> WHATEVER,from being treated for years like a worthless non-entity who >> had no right to her own pain,tears,anger,joy,innate talents or >> proclivities,sense of self...and now I experience that sudden " toxic >> shame " whenever someone in my life expresses affection for me,for >> example...I blush and writhe internally and find myself wondering why >> in the hell I feel so put on the spot,when I don't WANT to feel that >> way; when logically I am ok with it but emotionally I'm at a >> loss...or when I am honored or acknowledged for something I've done >> at work and immediately feel as if I huge spotlight has been aimed at >> me and my reaction is to want to sink into the ground...and I dislike >> myself intensely for being so neurotic when I want to be gracious >> about it... >> >> A switch of " toxic shame " gets thrown on all because a (physically) >> adult woman (nada) vampirized the psyche of a developing child (me) >> for the purposes of her own self-aggrandizement or to serve the sick >> agenda of her own primitive dysfunction.SHE made the wrong choice and >> I really doubt that BP's who abuse their own children have the >> capacity for healthy,adult shame--they can only foist their toxicity >> onto easy (and preferably helpless) targets...what kind of " power " is >> that? There is nothing wonderful about it--it is simply sick. >> >> (But it feels good to vent and yes,being made not to exist is >> profoundly shaming to mind body and soul: it is a violation of BEING) >> >> >> > >> > Sounds like this person borrowed a page from the Nazi Pogrom book. >> Make the people you want to destroy become less than human and it is >> an almost guilt free exercise. That takes a powerful amount of >> disconnect to be able to be so cold blooded about it. An animalistic >> reaction to normal human misunderstandings. >> > I actually had a chill run up my spine reading that. That >> mental manipulation is just plain evil. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > shame >> > >> > >> > I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive >> > Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and >> spouses of >> > BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an >> indication >> > that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. >> > >> > The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that >> is because >> > of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is >> probably a BPD >> > that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these >> years later: >> > >> > " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the >> person she >> > was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they >> deserved the >> > punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' >> in her >> > mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this >> mental >> > manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel >> guilt, >> > again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of >> being >> > abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she >> felt 'wonderfully' >> > powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " >> > >> > wow >> > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2008 Report Share Posted May 20, 2008 I'm coming to my own rescue. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spot freaking on, Z. shame > > > > > > I just started reading Boomerang Love, Getting Unhooked from Abusive > > Borderline Relathionships. The book is really for partners and > spouses of > > BPDs, chosen relationships. It talks about how " shame " can be an > indication > > that something is wrong, that you have made the wrong choice. > > > > The thing is, I pretty much feel constantly ashamed. I think that > is because > > of being a KO. One paragraph is a quote from a woman who is > probably a BPD > > that I think might explain why I still have the shame all these > years later: > > > > " (when she felt abandoned) She said she had no empathy for the > person she > > was running from. If they had the potential to hurt her, they > deserved the > > punishment she was dishing out. She said she made them 'not exist' > in her > > mind. They were 'lowly, unworthy, non-human beings.' Through this > mental > > manipulation, she could do hurtful things to others and not feel > guilt, > > again because they 'deserved it. . . . when she felt the fear of > being > > abandoned, she felt utterly powerless. The way she > felt 'wonderfully' > > powerful again was to hit back hard and abandon them. " > > > > wow > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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