Re: An Introduction

[Guest guest]

Hello Bethany, and welcome.

I am glad you found out about BPD, and our forum! When I was 21,

BPD was not even a diagnosis! LOL!

BPs typically think in black and white, all or nothing, right or

wrong. It seems you were split into the 'all good' child. And as

long as you meet your mother's needs, basically by giving your live

over to her, she was happy and kept you as the all good child. But

as you have experienced, as you decide to be more independent, to

include others in your life, to think and act on your own, she is

unable to 'share' you with anyone.

As you have also experienced, one of the symptoms of this disorder

is the inability to regulate her emotions. I think that is one of

the key elements to everything else about BPD.

Although you feel responsible for her, you are not. That is a

feeling, not a fact. I am sure your mother contributed to that

feeling, as it served her to have you so involved (enmeshed)

together. But the truth is that as adults, we are each responsible

for ourselves - in every way. We can support, encourage, coach,

advise, etc, others, but we are not responsible for them. And if a

person does not take responsibility for their own life, all the

support we can offer will not help at all, and it will really be a

waste of our time and emotional energy. She certainly took

responsibility when she moved to Chicago - a 'healthy' parent

realizes that as their children get older, they develop their own

primary relationships, and they do not continue the relationship

that they had together when the child was totally dependent upon

them. (And actually, a healthy parent has his/her own friends as

part of their life apart from their children.)

One of the best things in dealing with a BP is to not explain

anything, or at least keep the explanations very minimum. You

already explained to her why you are going to Pittsburg for the

holidays. She does not need to be told this again - or to be given

any additional explaination. In fact, the more we try to explain

and 'reason', the more the BP tries to twist our words around to

means something else. The less you say the better, and it is good

to just repeat the same statement over and over again. (I don't

think they hear it at all at first, so the repetition doesn't

hurt.)

As part of your being a separate individual, you may want to

consider how much you continue to confide in your mother. You may

have to evalute if this confiding encourages her to see the two of

you as 'one'. The down side is that it will be hard to give up her

being your biggest fan. However, if her being your fan also means

she has the right to abuse you, then it isn't worth it.

You also do not have to listen to her abuse on the phone or in

public. You have already told her you don't want to be yelled at.

Reinforce that with statments like, I will have to hang up if you

keep on yelling. I will leave the restaurant if you keep on

yelling.

Are you financially dependent upon her? If so, you should start to

look for ways to make up for any loss of finances. Many BP parents

use their financial assistance to manipulate their children.

Keep on posting here. We have many members who are in their

twenties and thirties who will be able to relate very well to your

situation and share their experiences with you.

Good luck,

Sylvia

>

> Hi!

>

> I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name is

> Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

>

> My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> therapists that both myself and others in my family have been

involved

> with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother) was

> manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her

life,

> but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

mental

> issues.

>

> Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made me

the

> focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even from a

> young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other moms.

When

> I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most of

my

> Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make friends,

she

> would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend

time

> with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing him

over

> her.

>

> She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my

big

> news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately, however,

> this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times in

the

> past, it has become significantly worse over the last few months.

I've

> been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal about

the

> decisions that I am making.

>

> This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

that's

> a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily

still

> live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh

for

> both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She

yelled

> at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish, saying

> that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain to

her

> several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas, the

> entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

>

> A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip we

> had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive

yelling

> at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six times,

> and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an awful,

> uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her -

all

> of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I was

> mortified.

>

> We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and asked

if I

> was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and asked

if

> I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I

agreed.

>

> Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking about

the

> holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she

started

> crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just go

> have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about

her,

> etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm down

and

> act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

>

> After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> where people were staring, I started crying and told her that not

only

> was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not the

> best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She got

up

> and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She

left

> me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she would

be

> cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

>

> Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my mom. I

> know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but I

am

> simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I just

get

> hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister moved

> away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get hurt

by her.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by

having

> a parent with BPD.

>

> Bethany

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Bethany! I am so glad at 21 you are confronting these issues now. I

remained enmeshed to my mother until I was 33 years old. Her control over me

" the good child " brought so much anxiety on me emotionally and physically I

ended up with diabetes. My doctor believes it was the result of the stressful

environment in which I suffered physical and emotional abuse. Take control of

your life now as you can because it will only get worse. I agree with Sylvia's

response. She has given you some good advice. For me I had to detach by looking

at my past and focusing on most of the dysfunction at first. I am just now

moving toward looking at the good parts of my childhood. This is a long journey

and I'm sorry you have to go on it but it will make you stronger and healthier.

Good luck!

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: smhtrain2@...: Sun, 28 Oct

2007 15:39:12 +0000Subject: Re: An Introduction

Hello Bethany, and welcome.I am glad you found out about BPD, and our forum!

When I was 21, BPD was not even a diagnosis! LOL! BPs typically think in black

and white, all or nothing, right or wrong. It seems you were split into the 'all

good' child. And as long as you meet your mother's needs, basically by giving

your live over to her, she was happy and kept you as the all good child. But as

you have experienced, as you decide to be more independent, to include others in

your life, to think and act on your own, she is unable to 'share' you with

anyone. As you have also experienced, one of the symptoms of this disorder is

the inability to regulate her emotions. I think that is one of the key elements

to everything else about BPD. Although you feel responsible for her, you are

not. That is a feeling, not a fact. I am sure your mother contributed to that

feeling, as it served her to have you so involved (enmeshed) together. But the

truth is that as adults, we are each responsible for ourselves - in every way.

We can support, encourage, coach, advise, etc, others, but we are not

responsible for them. And if a person does not take responsibility for their own

life, all the support we can offer will not help at all, and it will really be a

waste of our time and emotional energy. She certainly took responsibility when

she moved to Chicago - a 'healthy' parent realizes that as their children get

older, they develop their own primary relationships, and they do not continue

the relationship that they had together when the child was totally dependent

upon them. (And actually, a healthy parent has his/her own friends as part of

their life apart from their children.) One of the best things in dealing with a

BP is to not explain anything, or at least keep the explanations very minimum.

You already explained to her why you are going to Pittsburg for the holidays.

She does not need to be told this again - or to be given any additional

explaination. In fact, the more we try to explain and 'reason', the more the BP

tries to twist our words around to means something else. The less you say the

better, and it is good to just repeat the same statement over and over again. (I

don't think they hear it at all at first, so the repetition doesn't hurt.) As

part of your being a separate individual, you may want to consider how much you

continue to confide in your mother. You may have to evalute if this confiding

encourages her to see the two of you as 'one'. The down side is that it will be

hard to give up her being your biggest fan. However, if her being your fan also

means she has the right to abuse you, then it isn't worth it. You also do not

have to listen to her abuse on the phone or in public. You have already told her

you don't want to be yelled at. Reinforce that with statments like, I will have

to hang up if you keep on yelling. I will leave the restaurant if you keep on

yelling. Are you financially dependent upon her? If so, you should start to look

for ways to make up for any loss of finances. Many BP parents use their

financial assistance to manipulate their children. Keep on posting here. We have

many members who are in their twenties and thirties who will be able to relate

very well to your situation and share their experiences with you. Good

luck,Sylvia >> Hi!> > I'm a new member, and thought I would

introduce myself. My name is> Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my

undergraduate degree in> Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.> > My mom

has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several> therapists that both

myself and others in my family have been involved> with have said her behavior

is very consistent with it; my own> research has brought a lot of " a-ha! "

moments where I found BPD> behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my

grandmother) was> manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in

her life,> but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

mental> issues.> > Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has

made me the> focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even from

a> young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other moms. When> I was

in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most of my> Friday nights

with her. When I finally did start to make friends, she> would pout and cry,

calling me selfish because I wanted to spend time> with people my own age rather

than her. She did the same types of> things when I got my first boyfriend,

accusing me of choosing him over> her.> > She has always been my biggest fan and

the person that I tell my big> news to; she would support me in everything I

did. Lately, however,> this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at

times in the> past, it has become significantly worse over the last few months.

I've> been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal about the>

decisions that I am making. > > This has all come to head in the last few hours.

My mom moved to> Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

that's> a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily still>

live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh for> both

Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She yelled> at me on the

phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish, saying> that I didn't care about

her. I tried to stay calm and explain to her> several times that while I would

like to see her on Christmas, the> entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh,

and that is my home. > > A few days later, she took me & my roommate out

shopping, a trip we> had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour

drive yelling> at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six

times,> and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an awful,>

uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her - all> of this

as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I was> mortified.> > We

didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and asked if I> was being

passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her> behavior had been

unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at> anymore. She said she was going

to be in my neighborhood and asked if> I wanted to join her to stop by the store

she was going to. I agreed.> > Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she

started talking about the> holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store

and she started> crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should

just go> have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she>

started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about her,> etc. I

threatened several times to leave, but she would calm down and> act like she

would stop discussing it. She didn't.> > After yelling at me for 10 minutes at

the restaurant to the point> where people were staring, I started crying and

told her that not only> was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I

know, not the> best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She

got up> and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She left>

me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she would be>

cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.> > Obviously, I

haven't spoken with her since. I really love my mom. I> know that a lot of her

behavior is not her, but her illness, but I am> simply at a loss at this point.

Every time I speak with her I just get> hurt more & more, and I'm sick of

feeling like she is my> responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my

sister moved> away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get hurt

by her.> > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of>

wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really> understand

what I've gone through and continue to go through by having> a parent with BPD.>

> Bethany>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Bethany --

I was really impressed with how you handled your mother, despite

having just learned about all this BPD stuff. You've handled

yourself so well -- you seem to be " getting it " .....

It's good you've found this site, so you can keep going in that

direction.

I second what Sylvia so eloquently said (In fact, I think I'll print

that one out!). That BPDs won't let us grow up, won't allow us our

own independent opinions and feelings, and try to make us feel

responsible for them.

Again, I'm impressed you're able to stand your ground with her at

21 -- many of us here have wasted soooooo much of our lives being

torn up by this condition, and don't wake up until our 30s and 40s.

Your life will take a new, better direction because of this -- Keep

going!!

-Kyla

>

> Hi!

>

> I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name is

> Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

>

> My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> therapists that both myself and others in my family have been

involved

> with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother) was

> manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her

life,

> but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

mental

> issues.

>

> Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made me

the

> focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even from a

> young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other moms.

When

> I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most of

my

> Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make friends,

she

> would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend

time

> with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing him

over

> her.

>

> She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my

big

> news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately, however,

> this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times in

the

> past, it has become significantly worse over the last few months.

I've

> been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal about

the

> decisions that I am making.

>

> This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

that's

> a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily

still

> live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh

for

> both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She

yelled

> at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish, saying

> that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain to

her

> several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas, the

> entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

>

> A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip we

> had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive

yelling

> at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six times,

> and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an awful,

> uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her -

all

> of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I was

> mortified.

>

> We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and asked

if I

> was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and asked

if

> I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I

agreed.

>

> Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking about

the

> holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she

started

> crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just go

> have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about

her,

> etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm down

and

> act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

>

> After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> where people were staring, I started crying and told her that not

only

> was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not the

> best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She got

up

> and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She

left

> me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she would

be

> cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

>

> Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my mom. I

> know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but I

am

> simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I just

get

> hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister moved

> away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get hurt

by her.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by

having

> a parent with BPD.

>

> Bethany

>

[Guest guest]

Follow-up to this situation..

Mom called about an hour ago for the first time since this incident. I

took one look at the phone and felt disgusted, so I didn't answer. She

left me a message. Her voice sounded like it was cracking, it just

said " Hi, it's me. Just wanted to let you know I was thinking about

you. Call me later if you want to, or not. Bye. "

I really have absolutely no interest in calling her back. She owes me

a huge apology for the way she acted, and I'm 90% sure that she would

*still* be complaining about this Christmas thing if I spoke with her.

Any ideas on what to do?

>

> Hi!

>

> I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name is

> Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

>

> My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> therapists that both myself and others in my family have been involved

> with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother) was

> manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her life,

> but has never been put on medication or told that she may have mental

> issues.

>

> Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made me the

> focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even from a

> young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other moms. When

> I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most of my

> Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make friends, she

> would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend time

> with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing him over

> her.

>

> She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my big

> news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately, however,

> this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times in the

> past, it has become significantly worse over the last few months. I've

> been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal about the

> decisions that I am making.

>

> This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know that's

> a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily still

> live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh for

> both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She yelled

> at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish, saying

> that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain to her

> several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas, the

> entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

>

> A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip we

> had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive yelling

> at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six times,

> and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an awful,

> uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her - all

> of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I was

> mortified.

>

> We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and asked if I

> was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and asked if

> I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I agreed.

>

> Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking about the

> holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she started

> crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just go

> have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about her,

> etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm down and

> act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

>

> After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> where people were staring, I started crying and told her that not only

> was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not the

> best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She got up

> and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She left

> me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she would be

> cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

>

> Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my mom. I

> know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but I am

> simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I just get

> hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister moved

> away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get hurt by

her.

>

> Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by having

> a parent with BPD.

>

> Bethany

>

[Guest guest]

There is nothing you can do to get your mother to act differently or

to understand why what she did was wrong. But you can start

interacting with her in a way that is good for you. If you don't

feel like calling her back - then don't. There is no rule or law

that says you have to call her. (Oh yeah, there is our society that

holds motherhood next to sainthood - but I promise you that does not

apply to mothers who abuse their children.)

What she did with the phone call is try to hook you with her crackly

voice, using the O & G of FOG (FEAR, OBLIGATION, GUILT). I think it

would be great if we could tape our nadas - I really think mine

would win a prize for sounding the most pathetic!

You can decide how you want to interact with her. It doesn't have

to be the same as how anyone else interacts with his/her mother. Do

what works for you, or try different things until you find what

works. I do know that the closer you are to being true to yourself,

the easier it is to deal with a nada. It can take quite awhile, but

eventually they don't mess with you when you stand up for yourself.

BTW, thank goodness for caller id. I don't answer when my nada

calls. I feel the same way - ick! just don't want to talk to her.

Take care,

Sylvia

> >

> > Hi!

> >

> > I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name

is

> > Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> > Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

> >

> > My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> > therapists that both myself and others in my family have been

involved

> > with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> > research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> > behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother)

was

> > manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her

life,

> > but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

mental

> > issues.

> >

> > Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made

me the

> > focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even

from a

> > young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other

moms. When

> > I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most

of my

> > Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make

friends, she

> > would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend

time

> > with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> > things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing

him over

> > her.

> >

> > She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my

big

> > news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately,

however,

> > this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times

in the

> > past, it has become significantly worse over the last few

months. I've

> > been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal

about the

> > decisions that I am making.

> >

> > This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> > Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

that's

> > a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily

still

> > live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh

for

> > both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She

yelled

> > at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish,

saying

> > that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain

to her

> > several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas,

the

> > entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

> >

> > A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip

we

> > had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive

yelling

> > at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six

times,

> > and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an

awful,

> > uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her -

all

> > of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I

was

> > mortified.

> >

> > We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and

asked if I

> > was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> > behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> > anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and

asked if

> > I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I

agreed.

> >

> > Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking

about the

> > holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she

started

> > crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just

go

> > have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> > started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about

her,

> > etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm

down and

> > act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

> >

> > After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> > where people were staring, I started crying and told her that

not only

> > was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not

the

> > best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She

got up

> > and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She

left

> > me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she

would be

> > cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

> >

> > Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my

mom. I

> > know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but

I am

> > simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I

just get

> > hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> > responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister

moved

> > away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get

hurt by

> her.

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> > wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> > understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by

having

> > a parent with BPD.

> >

> > Bethany

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Bethany: I wouldn't call her either. And Sylvia is absolutely

right: YOU decide how you want to deal with someone who seems to

think it's OK to scream at you...Seems to think it's OK to try to

punish you for living a life of your own. And you have every right

to plan Christmas and Thanksgiving WHEREVER you want.

Your mother has crossed the line of basic respect with you. Yelling

at you for making your own friends and your own plans is NOT respect

for your adulthood. It's too bad your mother has decided that your

life is subject to her control -- but you don't have ANY obligation

to serve that lie.

Take it slow, and start drawing the line with her. Tell her the

next time she screams at you, you will leave. Etc., etc.....

Your mother needs her own life, and you have the right to live yours

in total freedom to choose what you want to do with your time.

Start taking care of yourself -- start listening to that inner voice

that is repelled by her. It's trying to tell you something, and you

have every right to step back and distance yourself from a

screaming, unreasonable, emotionally unstable mother for awhile --

until you gain some new perspective on the situation. Don't let her

bully you into coming around her until you're darn good and ready.

Take all the time you need. It's your life now.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Hi!

> > >

> > > I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My

name

> is

> > > Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree

in

> > > Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

> > >

> > > My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> > > therapists that both myself and others in my family have been

> involved

> > > with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> > > research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> > > behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my

grandmother)

> was

> > > manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in

her

> life,

> > > but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

> mental

> > > issues.

> > >

> > > Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made

> me the

> > > focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even

> from a

> > > young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other

> moms. When

> > > I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most

> of my

> > > Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make

> friends, she

> > > would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to

spend

> time

> > > with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types

of

> > > things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing

> him over

> > > her.

> > >

> > > She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell

my

> big

> > > news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately,

> however,

> > > this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times

> in the

> > > past, it has become significantly worse over the last few

> months. I've

> > > been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal

> about the

> > > decisions that I am making.

> > >

> > > This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved

to

> > > Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

> that's

> > > a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily

> still

> > > live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to

Pittsburgh

> for

> > > both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She

> yelled

> > > at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish,

> saying

> > > that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain

> to her

> > > several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas,

> the

> > > entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my

home.

> > >

> > > A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a

trip

> we

> > > had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive

> yelling

> > > at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six

> times,

> > > and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an

> awful,

> > > uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with

her -

> all

> > > of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I

> was

> > > mortified.

> > >

> > > We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and

> asked if I

> > > was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> > > behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled

at

> > > anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and

> asked if

> > > I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I

> agreed.

> > >

> > > Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking

> about the

> > > holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she

> started

> > > crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should

just

> go

> > > have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> > > started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care

about

> her,

> > > etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm

> down and

> > > act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

> > >

> > > After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the

point

> > > where people were staring, I started crying and told her that

> not only

> > > was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not

> the

> > > best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She

> got up

> > > and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill.

She

> left

> > > me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she

> would be

> > > cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

> > >

> > > Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my

> mom. I

> > > know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness,

but

> I am

> > > simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I

> just get

> > > hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> > > responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister

> moved

> > > away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get

> hurt by

> > her.

> > >

> > > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls

of

> > > wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can

really

> > > understand what I've gone through and continue to go through

by

> having

> > > a parent with BPD.

> > >

> > > Bethany

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bethany,

#1 You aren't crazy. You are an intelligent woman who made it into

college. I know that's not pertinent to the situation... but it's so

easy to forget.

#2 Take time to make good friends at college. This was one of the most

important things for me. Finding other young women to have healthy,

loving friendships with helped give me a lot of strength to deal with

my mother. Sometimes I forget how crazy she is, and that how she

treats me isn't normal becuase I am worried about her. Having friends

who can help you distinguish and set boundaries, and just validate her

being crazy is really valuable.

#3Go to counseling. If you don't like it, find someone else. It helped

me a lot to simply get validation of what was going on. If you are

starting to get depressed, or you are starting to feel like you are

" going crazy " find out who at your college can be helpful. Sometimes

there are academic services for people with anxiety, depression, and

other " difficulties " (even things like having a hard time reading or

writing-- there are services, look for them!) that you wouldn't

expect. It's hard to ask for help... we are used to taking care of

ourselves... but it can be worth it.

I'm 23, recently graduated from college and I have a BP mom. College

with a BP mom was incredibly difficult. It's a time when you are

supposed to be educating yourself, developing your strengths, values,

and convictions. There are so many opposing ideas and tons of pressure

that having an illogical mother does not help. Mom's have a hard time

letting go, and BP moms are ten times worse.

I'd love to talk with you more about what's going on in your life.

Shoot me an email if you'd like.

Lizzy

> >

> > Hi!

> >

> > I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name is

> > Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> > Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

> >

> > My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> > therapists that both myself and others in my family have been involved

> > with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> > research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> > behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother) was

> > manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her life,

> > but has never been put on medication or told that she may have mental

> > issues.

> >

> > Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made me the

> > focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even from a

> > young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other moms. When

> > I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most of my

> > Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make friends, she

> > would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend time

> > with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> > things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing him over

> > her.

> >

> > She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my big

> > news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately, however,

> > this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times in the

> > past, it has become significantly worse over the last few months. I've

> > been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal about the

> > decisions that I am making.

> >

> > This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> > Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know that's

> > a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily still

> > live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh for

> > both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She yelled

> > at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish, saying

> > that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain to her

> > several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas, the

> > entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

> >

> > A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip we

> > had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive yelling

> > at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six times,

> > and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an awful,

> > uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her - all

> > of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I was

> > mortified.

> >

> > We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and asked if I

> > was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> > behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> > anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and asked if

> > I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I agreed.

> >

> > Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking about the

> > holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she started

> > crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just go

> > have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> > started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about her,

> > etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm down and

> > act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

> >

> > After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> > where people were staring, I started crying and told her that not only

> > was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not the

> > best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She got up

> > and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She left

> > me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she would be

> > cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

> >

> > Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my mom. I

> > know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but I am

> > simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I just get

> > hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> > responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister moved

> > away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get hurt by

> her.

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> > wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> > understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by having

> > a parent with BPD.

> >

> > Bethany

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Bethany!

I don't blame you for being disgusted -- you're finally allowing

yourself to react normally and truthfully to the BPD bullshit.

My mom pulls out the " breaking voice " , too. If you're in her

presence, the quivering lip and chin comes out, too. It's purely to

manipulate you. You haven't come running to her previous tactics,

so she's forced to up the ante. It's really a game to them. If a

tactic doesn't work, they raise the stakes.

You are PERFECTLY within your rights to spend the holidays exactly

how YOU want to. These are YOUR holiday memories to build. No one

has the right to dictate to another adult what their holiday plans

are. No one.

When my mom tries her shaky-voice tactic, I remain calm (almost

businesslike), concentrate on the facts of whatever we're talking

about, and politely bulldoze right over it. If that makes her start

crying hysterically, I will politely say " Oh, sounds like I've

caught you at a bad time. I'll let you go -- Bye. " CLICK.

You are not here to be manipulated by people. They can try, but if

you don't play, it won't work.

Good for you -- I see you getting stronger with each post.

-Kyla

> >

> > Hi!

> >

> > I'm a new member, and thought I would introduce myself. My name

is

> > Bethany and I'm 21 years old, about to my undergraduate degree in

> > Chicago. I'm originally from Pittsburgh, PA.

> >

> > My mom has never been formally diagnosed with BPD, but several

> > therapists that both myself and others in my family have been

involved

> > with have said her behavior is very consistent with it; my own

> > research has brought a lot of " a-ha! " moments where I found BPD

> > behaviors that she exhibits to a T. Her mother (my grandmother)

was

> > manic depressive. My mom has been in therapy a few times in her

life,

> > but has never been put on medication or told that she may have

mental

> > issues.

> >

> > Despite the fact that I have a younger sister, my mom has made

me the

> > focal point of her life. We have always been close, but even

from a

> > young age I knew that something about her wasn't like other

moms. When

> > I was in high school, I was an outcast, and I would spend most

of my

> > Friday nights with her. When I finally did start to make

friends, she

> > would pout and cry, calling me selfish because I wanted to spend

time

> > with people my own age rather than her. She did the same types of

> > things when I got my first boyfriend, accusing me of choosing

him over

> > her.

> >

> > She has always been my biggest fan and the person that I tell my

big

> > news to; she would support me in everything I did. Lately,

however,

> > this has changed. Though she did emotionally abuse me at times

in the

> > past, it has become significantly worse over the last few

months. I've

> > been having relationship problems, and she's been very vocal

about the

> > decisions that I am making.

> >

> > This has all come to head in the last few hours. My mom moved to

> > Chicago (she claimed it was not to be closer to me, but I know

that's

> > a lie) about a year ago, but my father, sister, and stepfamily

still

> > live in Pittsburgh. I made the decision to go back to Pittsburgh

for

> > both Thanksgiving & Christmas this year, and she lost it. She

yelled

> > at me on the phone for an hour and kept calling me selfish,

saying

> > that I didn't care about her. I tried to stay calm and explain

to her

> > several times that while I would like to see her on Christmas,

the

> > entire rest of my family is in Pittsburgh, and that is my home.

> >

> > A few days later, she took me & my roommate out shopping, a trip

we

> > had planned before our fight. She spent the whole hour drive

yelling

> > at me in the car, telling me to " f off " at least five or six

times,

> > and continuing to tell me how selfish I was and how I was an

awful,

> > uncaring person because I wasn't spending the holidays with her -

all

> > of this as my roommate was in the backseat. Needless to say, I

was

> > mortified.

> >

> > We didn't talk for 2 weeks after that. Today mom called and

asked if I

> > was being passive-aggressive by not calling her; I told her her

> > behavior had been unacceptable and I did not want to be yelled at

> > anymore. She said she was going to be in my neighborhood and

asked if

> > I wanted to join her to stop by the store she was going to. I

agreed.

> >

> > Of course, within 2 minutes of arriving, she started talking

about the

> > holidays again. We argued the whole way to the store and she

started

> > crying while we were there. Finally she said that we should just

go

> > have lunch and try to have a nice time. On the way to lunch she

> > started talking about it *again*, asking why I didn't care about

her,

> > etc. I threatened several times to leave, but she would calm

down and

> > act like she would stop discussing it. She didn't.

> >

> > After yelling at me for 10 minutes at the restaurant to the point

> > where people were staring, I started crying and told her that

not only

> > was her behavior unacceptable, but she was crazy. (I know, not

the

> > best reaction, but I seriously could not take it anymore.) She

got up

> > and stormed out, leaving me waiting for the food & the bill. She

left

> > me a message on my phone a few minutes later saying that she

would be

> > cancelling my phone service and was no longer speaking to me.

> >

> > Obviously, I haven't spoken with her since. I really love my

mom. I

> > know that a lot of her behavior is not her, but her illness, but

I am

> > simply at a loss at this point. Every time I speak with her I

just get

> > hurt more & more, and I'm sick of feeling like she is my

> > responsibility to keep afloat. My dad divorced her, my sister

moved

> > away, and I am left to pick up the pieces and constantly get

hurt by

> her.

> >

> > Does anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? Any pearls of

> > wisdom? I'm so glad I've found this group; nobody else can really

> > understand what I've gone through and continue to go through by

having

> > a parent with BPD.

> >

> > Bethany

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the advice on how to handle the 'shaky voice'. My

nada can still get to me with that, and I am going to remember this

for when it happens again.

Sylvia

>

> Hey Bethany!

>

> I don't blame you for being disgusted -- you're finally allowing

> yourself to react normally and truthfully to the BPD bullshit.

>

> My mom pulls out the " breaking voice " , too. If you're in her

> presence, the quivering lip and chin comes out, too. It's purely

to

> manipulate you. You haven't come running to her previous tactics,

> so she's forced to up the ante. It's really a game to them. If a

> tactic doesn't work, they raise the stakes.

>

> You are PERFECTLY within your rights to spend the holidays exactly

> how YOU want to. These are YOUR holiday memories to build. No

one

> has the right to dictate to another adult what their holiday plans

> are. No one.

>

> When my mom tries her shaky-voice tactic, I remain calm (almost

> businesslike), concentrate on the facts of whatever we're talking

> about, and politely bulldoze right over it. If that makes her

start

> crying hysterically, I will politely say " Oh, sounds like I've

> caught you at a bad time. I'll let you go -- Bye. " CLICK.

>

> You are not here to be manipulated by people. They can try, but

if

> you don't play, it won't work.

>

> Good for you -- I see you getting stronger with each post.

>

> -Kyla

>

.......