Re: new here... very long...

[Guest guest]

Dear Iceberg,

I know how this feels. Although I've never lived more than 5 hours

away from my mother, I know what it is like when she tried to make

you feel guilty for not being around. I moved away for college, and

better job opportunities. Whenever we would talk on the phone she

would throw it in my face " you could have stayed here and gone to

school, but no, you're the one that decided to leave, not me! " .

When she finally moved near me last December, (before I realized

there was a problem because I will still blinded by being the

obedient child etc)I thought it would be great. But the thing is,

that is what it took for me to realize there was a problem and it

got worse living near her.

When I moved to another apartment in the same city last January, my

mother made remarks about how i should have found a place for the

both of us to live, not just for myself. She talked to me for a

couple of weeks about how it would be fine living together, how she

wouldn't interfere with my life. Well, she tries to interfere enough

the way it is, and we DON't live together. I can't imagine the hell

it would be living together now. I don't know how i did it before i

moved to college.

My mother, like yours , has many health problems, but it sounds like

your mom's are worse than mine. It sounds like she does need a nurse

or someone to care for her everyday, maybe someone who is scheduled

to come in and see her for a few hours a day, make sure there are no

messes, make sure she takes her meds and everything.If you're mother

refuses to do it, maybe you should write a letter to her doctor, or

talk to other family members about it. Are there any family members

that are " white " right now? Sometimes my NADA takes advice from

those she paints white at the time. Maybe you could get them

involved.

I am sorry you have to deal with this over 6,000 miles away. i know

when you aren't nearby you feel helpless or even guilty, but even if

you were around for her, would that really make her happy?

My mom is complaining now how i don't call or see her as much

anymore. but before when i was calling her all the time and going to

visit all the time, she was still pissed off and unhappy. So there

is nothing we can do that will completely satisfy our

parents,because no matter what, we are now adults and make decisions

for ourselves without taking them into consideration,and they hate

that.

i don't know if this helped you or not (but it sure helped me!) But

i know it is hard to deal with. it might be a good idea to try and

find a therapist to talk to about this? It has REALLY helped me, and

I've only been going since July.

Good luck to you! glad you found the board!

>

> I am so happy to have found this list! I have been listening in the

> last week or so to get a feel for things and am so happy in a sad

sort

> of way to find other people sharing similar problems.

>

> I actually don't know if my mother is certifiably BPD, if that

makes

> any sense, but sooo much of what is written here sounds so similar

I

> guess its close enough.

>

> I think I've known my family was a few clowns short of a circus for

> quite a while, and I think I have known also that it was time to

get

> off the merry-go-round, though I didn't know exactly how. Just

> recently after dealing with the emotional aftermath of a favorite

> aunts funeral I realised I really needed to analyse things more

> productively, that's when I started looking first into co-

dependency

> and then to BPD... it just makes so much sense...

>

> anyway, I also moved over 6000 miles away (6,600 maybe as a crow

> flies, much longer if you add in all the transfers!) to try to get

a

> life of my own... across the continent and an ocean. I always

> suspected there was more in common with some of us expats beyond

the

> obvious travel itch...

>

> I was generally split bad, my whole life my mother treated me as

best

> irrelevant, foolish and having ridiculous opinions. I survived

> childhood I think by staying below the radar by 1) making myself

> invisible and hiding or staying out of sight or never ever

expressing

> any independent opinions or 2) acting as perfect and helpful as

> possible or 3)using anyone who was split good as a buffer. Anyway I

> think it took moving an ocean away right out of college to be able

to

> establish and identity and a life of my own.

>

> MOVING physically helped a lot but.... mentally I guess I have

> carried a lot of baggage with me so these family dynamics still

stay

> in my head even across the ocean and it sometimes takes months to

> recover from toxic visits.

>

> I think I was trained to deny any of my own needs or separate

identity

> as a kid and felt responsible for taking care of mother... now

that I

> am finally trying to let go of that feeling though it is really a

> hard time to try to get off the merry go round. She has been in a

> destructive spiral for years, no alcohol, but she has refused to

do a

> thing for her health other than popping pain killers and

prescription

> meds and seeing doctors. And sleeping as much as she possibly can.

She

> hasn't exercised in years. I don't care how great your bones are to

> start with, if you don't exercise more than walking from bed to

> bathroom for a couple decades you are going to be in intense pain

> sooner or later. Add to that chronic conditions like osteoporosis

or

> arthritis and decades of heavy smoking and you can maybe imagine

the

> kind of pain she is in. She can barely walk and is on a respirator.

> Between the debilitating pain and the confusion from the pain

killers

> she is also very forgetful. (Alzheimer's? Can't ever bring up the

> possibility as she'd rather get rabidly angry than admit she could

> possibly have THAT kind of problem.) I have tried to encourage her

> for years and years to make healthier choices (exercise, diet, etc)

> and to choose a healthier lifestyle, she'd either get mad and

accuse

> me or my siblings of trying to manipulate her, or of having evil

> attitudes. Everything is my fault, not her lifestyle, she is just a

> victim of circumstance. Forget trying to help-- if I even clean a

> closet out (at her request) she tells everyone I've stolen from

her.

> Clearly she doesn't want any help. Unless from my split good

brother,

> also across the continent. Clearly she also should not be living on

> her own-- it isn't safe. She should be in some kind of managed

care.

> She would never agree though, would fight tooth and nail against it

> though she can barely walk, can't always remember when and what

meds

> to take or when and which Doctors to go to and etc. I think she'd

> rather die alone unattended than either move out or accept any help

> from me. Only one of us 4 siblings live near her-- a sister who was

> split good growing up but is currently mostly split bad... I think

> because she always got to play the perfect angel helper saviour

> growing up she is adamant about rushing in and trying to " fix "

things.

> My mother though doesn't want her help, she'd rather just retain

her

> little remaining power by scapegoating sister rather than make any

> changes in her own life. Anyway I feel like WWIII is breaking

out...

> sis is really pissed at me and other

> split-bad-during-childhood-sister for not wanting to rush in to fix

> things... and mom is mad scapegoat sister first and next at anyone

> who doesn't want to hear how evil she is. Only split god Bro has

any

> hope of doing having any say, but I can't imagine him actually

saying

> anything she doesn't want to hear. I am trying to stay out of WWIII

> here and be SWITZERLAND but the toxic vibes even across the ocean

are

> terrible... I think I am afraid of being the innocent country on

the

> sidelines bombed for no reason.. cambodia or Laos maybe. Sis is

really

> furious, she wants and expects the rest of us to rush in and do

more,

> and since I have always been the invisible one with no expressed

> opinions trying to just make everyone else happy she is

particularly

> shocked that I am not signing on so fast.

>

> Anyway, it is also hard to see my mother self-destruct like that

when

> she is in so much pain and could so benefit from loving care.

>

> Sorry for going an far, far too long.... In a nutshell, I would

love

> to hear from others also dealing with illness and aging.

>

> thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

Hi there,Icebergs.I can so relate to what you wrote about your mother

resisting attempts to help her and about her self destructing.And

also about the experience of living abroad but still having your

family with you mentally.

My mother has BPD.I would have thought she'd be the one refusing to

look after her health,but it turns out that my father is the one who

is melting down healthwise.He's a few " clowns short of a circus "

himself,although I don't know what his psychiatric diagnosis would

be.He's passive-aggressive and depressive and maddening.I'll tell you

right now that I really resent him putting this crap on me.I've been

through the whole gamut of what it is that I can/cannot do.I've been

the dutiful daughter to him.I've counselled him about making

healthier choices.I am now choosing to be No Contact with him (and my

mother,they're a package deal)because it seems to me that he all he

wants is a witness to his life-or-death health drama and what is the

point of that? All that does is make me feel helpless and fills me

with dread and despair.

I lived in France for years,trying to make a life for myself removed

from what my past had been.I definitely agree with you:there is

something many expats have in common beyond a travel itch. Like

wanting to recreate themselves anew,in another place.But anywhere you

go,your head goes with you!It took me awhile to understand this.I had

a blast living in Paris and don't regret it at all,but there came a

time when I needed to set my priorities and I decided to do that back

in the States.I also wanted to make having a better relationship with

my parents a part of that decision.Rather absurdly,I now live in the

same state as them but speak to them much less than I did when I was

an ocean away.

You wrote: " I think she'd rather die alone unattended than either

move out or accept any help from me. " That rings true of my

experience with my father,as well.I've always been the " bad "

daughter,since I was very young.My brother was the " good " one and

still is,but he's so much like our parents,he can't help them or even

notice that something is radically wrong.I've been forced again and

again into playing the " bad " role,even in spite of my best intentions

to be helpful.

The final straw,for me,was last Spring when my father was supposed

to have a pace maker put in.He didn't want to make the appointment,he

didn't want to have to go into the hospital.I kept telling him that

it was far better to have the pace maker put in while he was

stable,to arrange a time to be in the hospital that suited him and to

get it over with,than to wait until it was an emergency.He kept

saying that he didn't want to leave my mother " alone " (she won't even

let him leave the house to do errands without her unless it's a quick

trip).I managed to convince my mother that father going into the

hospital for a few days was necessary and that I'd be there to take

care of her and she was ok with that,but my father continued to

refuse to go.

A few weeks later,I get a phone call from him in the pre-dawn

hours.He tells me that he has been laying on the living room sofa all

night because he couldn't get up and when he tried to,he had

fainted.Now,it's an emergency.Instead of having it all pre-arranged,I

now have to scramble to call off from work,to speed over to his

house,to call an ambulance because he is too overweight for me to

support all the way to my car-and if he faints,I'm too little to

catch his fall.

My mother is of course in a state of total panic.It's the end of the

world,she's sure he's going to die.She is becoming more and more

hysterical.We have to wait in the emergency room for a few hours

before he can be fully admitted while my mother has a fit.

Thankfully,the pace maker was put in successfully.But I had a very

intense week of juggling work,going to the hospital and taking care

of my mother,who was still convinced my father was a dead man and

when I tried to reassure her,she screamed at me that I " don't know

anything " and that I didn't know what I was " talking about. " I had

tried to prevent having this happen,but it happened anyway.

The doctors had told my father not to drive.I forget now how long it

was,but I seem to remember it was for at least a month.One evening

maybe three days after he came home from the hospital,I called him

after work to see if he needed anything,since he couldn't drive.My

mother happily tells me that he's out at Kentucky Fried Chicken

getting them their dinner.My blood pressure goes up so high,I feel

dizzy.

He's supposed to be on a special diet.He's a junk food junkie,which

is a big part of his health problems.He doesn't even try to break

this addiction.But it's the driving that gets to me.The nearest KFC

is down the highway.He's driving on the highway when he's still too

weak and drugged up to drive at all.

When I confront him about this,he tells me that he's " sick " of

having to be " dependent " on me and that he " knows " I'm going to

get " tired of this sh*t " ,so he's decided to do whatever he needs to

do himself.And besides,he's such a physical wreck,he's going to die

soon anyway and he'd rather die sooner than later.It doesn't matter

if I die in a car accident,he says,I'll be dead by September anyway.

He doesn't CARE that he might have had a car accident.He didn't want

to go to the hospital and leave my mother " alone " but somehow doesn't

care if he dies on the highway and leaves her alone.I realize that he

was using my mother an an excuse not to go into the hospital.And that

he doesn't even consider how much my life will be turned upside down

if he dies and I have to assume full responsibility for my mother.He

just doesn't think.

I said to him, " Ok,maybe you no longer care about your own life and

dying in a car accident doesn't matter,but what about the person in

the other car? It doesn't matter if they die,too? "

He just gave me a blank stare and had no response.He hadn't even

thought of that.All he'd thought of was that HE might die-he'd never

even considered that there would be anyone else involved in

the " accident " .

Internally,I flipped over this.His selfishness is so enormous,it

bulldozes over everything and everyone else.He just doesn't give a

fig about anyone else's rights or feelings.For months,I had been

worrying about him and trying to help him,taking him to doctor's

appointments,checking in on him...and he couldn't care less whether

he kills some innocent bystander,indeed,he doesn't even notice that

there IS an innocent bystander.

That is when I decided that I'd just had it.I refuse to involve

myself in his death drama.There is nothing I can do.My efforts mean

nothing to him.Being involved in it only makes me feel sick at

heart.I honestly get nothing out of it but grief.

It's not easy to " let go " and to know that he really might die in

these circumstances,but I have to remind myself that this is his

choice,not mine.I never,ever,would have wanted it to be this way.And

the longer I have gone without speaking to him,the better I have felt

in terms of becoming clearer about how dysfunctional he really is and

how impossible and how noxious and negative he is.I am learning not

to worry about a situation I didn't create and can't change.It was

rough at first but lately I do feel as if a huge burden has been

lifted,the burden of displaced responsibility.

I feel like my life is much saner and infinitely more agreeable

without my parents' sickness infecting my days.I'm also

being " Switzerland " and you know,once you really arrive and unpack

your bags,it's a beautiful country with amazing views .

I know it's awful to watch them self-destruct.Walking away from it

is an arduous process.But you can't help people who don't really want

to be helped.

Take good care,

{{{Hugs}}}

>

> I am so happy to have found this list! I have been listening in the

> last week or so to get a feel for things and am so happy in a sad

sort

> of way to find other people sharing similar problems.

>

> I actually don't know if my mother is certifiably BPD, if that makes

> any sense, but sooo much of what is written here sounds so similar I

> guess its close enough.

>

> I think I've known my family was a few clowns short of a circus for

> quite a while, and I think I have known also that it was time to get

> off the merry-go-round, though I didn't know exactly how. Just

> recently after dealing with the emotional aftermath of a favorite

> aunts funeral I realised I really needed to analyse things more

> productively, that's when I started looking first into co-dependency

> and then to BPD... it just makes so much sense...

>

> anyway, I also moved over 6000 miles away (6,600 maybe as a crow

> flies, much longer if you add in all the transfers!) to try to get a

> life of my own... across the continent and an ocean. I always

> suspected there was more in common with some of us expats beyond the

> obvious travel itch...

>

> I was generally split bad, my whole life my mother treated me as

best

> irrelevant, foolish and having ridiculous opinions. I survived

> childhood I think by staying below the radar by 1) making myself

> invisible and hiding or staying out of sight or never ever

expressing

> any independent opinions or 2) acting as perfect and helpful as

> possible or 3)using anyone who was split good as a buffer. Anyway I

> think it took moving an ocean away right out of college to be able

to

> establish and identity and a life of my own.

>

> MOVING physically helped a lot but.... mentally I guess I have

> carried a lot of baggage with me so these family dynamics still stay

> in my head even across the ocean and it sometimes takes months to

> recover from toxic visits.

>

> I think I was trained to deny any of my own needs or separate

identity

> as a kid and felt responsible for taking care of mother... now that

I

> am finally trying to let go of that feeling though it is really a

> hard time to try to get off the merry go round. She has been in a

> destructive spiral for years, no alcohol, but she has refused to do

a

> thing for her health other than popping pain killers and

prescription

> meds and seeing doctors. And sleeping as much as she possibly can.

She

> hasn't exercised in years. I don't care how great your bones are to

> start with, if you don't exercise more than walking from bed to

> bathroom for a couple decades you are going to be in intense pain

> sooner or later. Add to that chronic conditions like osteoporosis or

> arthritis and decades of heavy smoking and you can maybe imagine the

> kind of pain she is in. She can barely walk and is on a respirator.

> Between the debilitating pain and the confusion from the pain

killers

> she is also very forgetful. (Alzheimer's? Can't ever bring up the

> possibility as she'd rather get rabidly angry than admit she could

> possibly have THAT kind of problem.) I have tried to encourage her

> for years and years to make healthier choices (exercise, diet, etc)

> and to choose a healthier lifestyle, she'd either get mad and accuse

> me or my siblings of trying to manipulate her, or of having evil

> attitudes. Everything is my fault, not her lifestyle, she is just a

> victim of circumstance. Forget trying to help-- if I even clean a

> closet out (at her request) she tells everyone I've stolen from her.

> Clearly she doesn't want any help. Unless from my split good

brother,

> also across the continent. Clearly she also should not be living on

> her own-- it isn't safe. She should be in some kind of managed care.

> She would never agree though, would fight tooth and nail against it

> though she can barely walk, can't always remember when and what meds

> to take or when and which Doctors to go to and etc. I think she'd

> rather die alone unattended than either move out or accept any help

> from me. Only one of us 4 siblings live near her-- a sister who was

> split good growing up but is currently mostly split bad... I think

> because she always got to play the perfect angel helper saviour

> growing up she is adamant about rushing in and trying to " fix "

things.

> My mother though doesn't want her help, she'd rather just retain her

> little remaining power by scapegoating sister rather than make any

> changes in her own life. Anyway I feel like WWIII is breaking

out...

> sis is really pissed at me and other

> split-bad-during-childhood-sister for not wanting to rush in to fix

> things... and mom is mad scapegoat sister first and next at anyone

> who doesn't want to hear how evil she is. Only split god Bro has any

> hope of doing having any say, but I can't imagine him actually

saying

> anything she doesn't want to hear. I am trying to stay out of WWIII

> here and be SWITZERLAND but the toxic vibes even across the ocean

are

> terrible... I think I am afraid of being the innocent country on

the

> sidelines bombed for no reason.. cambodia or Laos maybe. Sis is

really

> furious, she wants and expects the rest of us to rush in and do

more,

> and since I have always been the invisible one with no expressed

> opinions trying to just make everyone else happy she is particularly

> shocked that I am not signing on so fast.

>

> Anyway, it is also hard to see my mother self-destruct like that

when

> she is in so much pain and could so benefit from loving care.

>

> Sorry for going an far, far too long.... In a nutshell, I would

love

> to hear from others also dealing with illness and aging.

>

> thanks!

>

[Guest guest]

I can appreciate your concern for your aging mother's needs -

unfortunately, it sounds as though she doesn't!

If Sis is such a huge fan of jumping in & rescuing your mother, she

should go right ahead - she is free to make her decisions and you

are free to make yours. Since it sounds like she's a little BPD

herself or at least has boundary issues, you might remind her of

this (nicely and without further discussion as to your reasons).

Especially since you have other siblings, there are others who can

step up to the plate should they so choose. If you're painted black,

it's not like your efforts would mean anything in terms of

appreciation or changing the course of your mother's health. And

since you have been a dutiful (self-denying) daughter in the past, I

would guess you've already done much more than your share through

the years.

During each of the few routine surgeries my nada has had, with

access to excellent medical care, my BPD split good bro happened to

be unavailable. After the fact however he would show up for a

lengthy discussion of what I had done wrong and/or how little I had

done for her while he was out of pocket. Along with his usual great

ideas about how much more I could be doing but wasn't because of

my " bad feelings " toward Mom.

The aging/healthcare issues have been among the most frustrating for

me. My experience in this arena has been that you can do everything

in the BPD person's best interest and they will still foul it up &

blame it on you. Case in point: this summer I scheduled 2 business

trips around her already-planned knee surgery and left in place what

I thought was an airtight plan of aftercare. She starved herself

the month leading up to surgery so that she was physically run down

and had to stay in the hospital longer than planned; as I was away

on trip #1 she had a " near heart attack with worry " the week before

(not even: her insurance company refused to pay for the ambulance or

ER visit); and finally while I was on trip #2 she changed her rehab

care from a facility her doctor recommended and I had chosen to a

facility her doctor AND I had recommended against & from which she

then had to be moved while I was 3 time zones away.

As for forgetfulness, don't buy it. My nada " forgot " she called a

friend of the family the Saturday after surgery & told her she

wasn't expected to live through the weekend although she was due for

release that Monday, " forgot " she was only supposed to take 1

painkiller not 2 (even though the nurse had given her a single

Vicodin, she took another out from the stash in her purse to correct

the nurse's " mistake " ), but remembered how mean I was to her in

junior high and how the month before I'd refused to bring her a coke

from my house 20 miles away when she has a vending machine on the

first floor of her building.

It can be very demanding to care for an aging parent who is

cooperative and caring; when the elderly person is working against

you (and herself) every step of the way, it's a tough sell verging

on a lost cause. You said it will be hard to watch her self-

destruction, but guess what? She's going to do it anyway. Your

choices range from sitting in the front row or heading for the

bleachers. Or leaving the stadium entirely!

Wishing you well,

[Guest guest]

This is an excellent post,.What you've pointed out is so very

true...I just want to add some thoughts on being neutral in this kind

of family situation and Icebergs,I really hope I didn't offend you

with the " Switzerland " comment I made in an earlier post-on

reflection that was a bit insensitive.I apologize!

You said that you were always the one who didn't speak up and that

your sister is surprised that you aren't signing on so fast and that

she is furious with you.I was always expected to be the

family " lackey " and I have acted that role in the past.My brother is

furious with me now that I have refused to be the lackey.He is unable

to see that I did try to be helpful to absolutely no avail and that I

have simply given up.

I can understand the fear of being bombed from the sidelines while

trying to remain neutral.A couple of months ago,my brother's anger

towards me and condemnation of me was very upsetting to me.I've had

to work my way through this.It's taken me time to achieve detachment

from the blame he puts on me but with some distance now,I feel at

peace with my decision to become uninvolved.He's still stuck in

believing there is a " solution " to my father's behavior and whatever

his reasons or motivations,that is still a choice he is making.He is

displacing his anger and frustration onto me instead of facing the

facts.It sounds to me like your sister is doing something similar to

you.You've done what you could do; you certainly don't deserve to be

blamed for what is in the end your sister's decision to assume that

you could somehow fix the problems of someone (your mother) who

rejects your help.

Take care,

>

> I can appreciate your concern for your aging mother's needs -

> unfortunately, it sounds as though she doesn't!

>

> If Sis is such a huge fan of jumping in & rescuing your mother, she

> should go right ahead - she is free to make her decisions and you

> are free to make yours. Since it sounds like she's a little BPD

> herself or at least has boundary issues, you might remind her of

> this (nicely and without further discussion as to your reasons).

> Especially since you have other siblings, there are others who can

> step up to the plate should they so choose. If you're painted

black,

> it's not like your efforts would mean anything in terms of

> appreciation or changing the course of your mother's health. And

> since you have been a dutiful (self-denying) daughter in the past,

I

> would guess you've already done much more than your share through

> the years.

>

> During each of the few routine surgeries my nada has had, with

> access to excellent medical care, my BPD split good bro happened to

> be unavailable. After the fact however he would show up for a

> lengthy discussion of what I had done wrong and/or how little I had

> done for her while he was out of pocket. Along with his usual

great

> ideas about how much more I could be doing but wasn't because of

> my " bad feelings " toward Mom.

>

> The aging/healthcare issues have been among the most frustrating

for

> me. My experience in this arena has been that you can do

everything

> in the BPD person's best interest and they will still foul it up &

> blame it on you. Case in point: this summer I scheduled 2 business

> trips around her already-planned knee surgery and left in place

what

> I thought was an airtight plan of aftercare. She starved herself

> the month leading up to surgery so that she was physically run down

> and had to stay in the hospital longer than planned; as I was away

> on trip #1 she had a " near heart attack with worry " the week before

> (not even: her insurance company refused to pay for the ambulance

or

> ER visit); and finally while I was on trip #2 she changed her rehab

> care from a facility her doctor recommended and I had chosen to a

> facility her doctor AND I had recommended against & from which she

> then had to be moved while I was 3 time zones away.

>

> As for forgetfulness, don't buy it. My nada " forgot " she called a

> friend of the family the Saturday after surgery & told her she

> wasn't expected to live through the weekend although she was due

for

> release that Monday, " forgot " she was only supposed to take 1

> painkiller not 2 (even though the nurse had given her a single

> Vicodin, she took another out from the stash in her purse to

correct

> the nurse's " mistake " ), but remembered how mean I was to her in

> junior high and how the month before I'd refused to bring her a

coke

> from my house 20 miles away when she has a vending machine on the

> first floor of her building.

>

> It can be very demanding to care for an aging parent who is

> cooperative and caring; when the elderly person is working against

> you (and herself) every step of the way, it's a tough sell verging

> on a lost cause. You said it will be hard to watch her self-

> destruction, but guess what? She's going to do it anyway. Your

> choices range from sitting in the front row or heading for the

> bleachers. Or leaving the stadium entirely!

>

> Wishing you well,

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-Hi Sara Jo thanks for your note

> When she finally moved near me last December, (before I realized

> there was a problem because I will still blinded by being the

> obedient child etc)I thought it would be great. But the thing is,

> that is what it took for me to realize there was a problem and it

> got worse living near her.

I understand completely! I almost got sucked into that scenario, too.

IT isn " t really safe for my mom to be at home, but she is sooo

attached to the old family home I wasnt sure if she'd ever agree to

move, so I almost suggested buying the place so she could move out to

assisted living or somewhere simpler. Immediately she had all these

plans of moving into the basement but " not bothering me " . Well I knew

then that wouldn't work out, glad I got out of that idea before it

went any further.

> My mother, like yours , has many health problems, but it sounds like

> your mom's are worse than mine. It sounds like she does need a nurse

> or someone to care for her everyday, maybe someone who is scheduled

> to come in and see her for a few hours a day,

Yeah, actually I forgot to mention but she does have home health aides

coming in several hours a day and a nurse checking in every week. So

it isn't total crisis yet. And no even if I were closer she'd be just

as miserable and get to blame me for that.

So there

> is nothing we can do that will completely satisfy our

> parents,because no matter what, we are now adults and make decisions

> for ourselves without taking them into consideration,and they hate

> that.

exactly right! Might as well concentrate on building our own healthy

lives! A therapist can be great, I am glad it is helping you! At the

moment I am in a non-English speaking area so if I can find an English

speaking therapist (my language skills are ok but for such emotional

topics using the motehr tongue is so much better) it would be

phenomenally expensive. So at the moment I am going to try to read the

BPD literature and other self help options. My work is cyclical or

seasonal though so during my next long break I'd like to check out

some therapy when I go back.....

Anyway thanks for writing and glad it helped you too... good luck with

the distance and guilt stuff.

[Guest guest]

Hi thanks for all your comments it rings so true!

I think you are right sis seems to be exhibiting some very bpd like

behaviour recently. It may be the stress-- 3 kids, high pressure job,

marriage on the rocks, and conflicts with the martyr BPD mother. But

you're right, she has her own problems and I need to let them stay

with her. I think it is common to have various disagreements in

larger families, if it was a spat just with my mother I wouldn't bat

an eyelash, but it seems she is enraged with everyone-- me, mother,

sister, husband, the nurse, the aides.... that level of anger must be

a symptom of something. I am also realising if she wants to play

rescuer than that is her choice and I'll just leave it. It isn't that

I don't want to help, its just that I know there is nothing I can do

to help that will be appreciated, and nothing I can do will make a

difference. I don't need to be told I am a thief or deal with any of

those other bizarre accusations especially if there are no counter

balancing benefits. Anyway sis is crapping on about equality as if the

rest of us are abandoning her to this job without any thoughts of

fairness. It isn't about fairness or maybe she wouldnt have been able

to play angel rescuer and take all the praise and all the strokes

growing up. Since nothing I have done is ever good enough I personally

have no more illusions about being able to help.

And you're right, I played the dutiful self-denying daughter too long.

All those extended cross-pacific trips home took up all my vacation

time and could have financed my kids' education or my own retirement

needs. I should have been giving my own kids nice vacations or looking

after our financial future. Instead noooo, nothing is ever long

enough, often enough-- 5 days or 5 weeks, *never* good enough) or at a

good enough time. Even when it should have been about ME-- wedding or

giving birth-- everything about failing to meet mom's needs. I am kind

of pissed I didn't wake up to what was going on sooner. I guess I was

looking out for myself only in the sense that what I wanted, all I've

ever really wanted, was that she not be miserable. The one thing I

absolutely have no control over. So no more. I am looking after myself

from now on. Better late than never I guess but I feel kind of cheated.

I am not up on all the terminology yet-- but I guess I am going into

low communication mode with both of them at the moment. Since mother

and sister are seemingly in the process of splitting each other black

I feel the heat waves way across the pacific and I can see the

mushroom cloud even without being there. I am trying to sit here with

my Swiss flag and not get sucked in, but I don't really trust myself

not to get emotionally sucked in or drained (more than now I mean!) if

I have to listen to either of them. So I get polite informative emails

from sis occasionally (with passive agressive hints between the lines)

and resist the temptation to call them and see how things are going.

So at the moment I am sitting at the back of the stadium with my Swiss

flag. Near the exit. I have to remind myself, even if I wanted a front

center seat, it would be almost impossible to get. Its 6000 miles

away, costs a lot, would mean sacrifices like career changes of

depriving my children of my time. It just isn't practical. I think if

either one of them tries to drag me into the ring or to steal my flag

I'll have to leave the stadium entirely.

I think you're spot on about reminding sis of her choices-- that might

be something to try before fleeing the stadium. It strikes me as a bit

BPD, that she seems to think there is ONE way to handle things (us

running around in circles trying to maximise mom's ability to stay at

home as long as possible) and is mad we're not doing our share. So I

may need to get more explicit about reminding her that there are other

options and that she can make her choices but shouldnt inflict her

reality on me.

> The aging/healthcare issues have been among the most frustrating for

> me. My experience in this arena has been that you can do everything

> in the BPD person's best interest and they will still foul it up &

> blame it on you.

> It can be very demanding to care for an aging parent who is

> cooperative and caring; when the elderly person is working against

> you (and herself) every step of the way, it's a tough sell verging

> on a lost cause. You said it will be hard to watch her self-

> destruction, but guess what? She's going to do it anyway. Your

> choices range from sitting in the front row or heading for the

> bleachers. Or leaving the stadium entirely!

Oh yes, exactly right!! IT is watching that self destruction that is

sooo hard, it tears me up! But she IS going to do it anyway! that is

sooo frustrating and hard to let go!

Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me it was

tremendously soothing!

[Guest guest]

I'm glad I could help. I know what you're saying here

>I am kind of pissed I didn't wake up to what was going on sooner. I

guess I was looking out for myself only in the sense that what I

wanted, all I've ever really wanted, was that she not be miserable.

The one thing I absolutely have no control over. So no more. I am

looking after myself from now on. Better late than never I guess but

I feel kind of cheated.

I've only gone NC (no contact) a few weeks ago (20 years after I

first considered it) and can't tell you how much better I feel

already, physically & mentally. I think I must have had elevated

adrenaline since I was 4 or 5. Besides the tremendous comfort of

this group. It is not insignificant to find that a lot of things I

thought were my issues were fleas or things I was doing to keep

peace; it's a real eye-opener to read about things other's nadas

criticized them for while my nada criticized me for just the

opposite.

It's not you. It never was you, and you have nothing to feel guilty

about or to be blamed for. Whether you go no or limited contact is

up to you, but either way - Welcome to the beginning of peace!

[Guest guest]

icebergs03 wrote:

" So at the moment I am going to try to read the

BPD literature and other self help options. "

I can highly recommend " Leaving Home " by Celani -- I don't

know if you've got access to Amazon where you are, but they have it.

Another is " Surviving the Borderline Parent " . I liked that one. I

have a therapist, but I have gained so much from the support and

other stories on this board, I think you can start down the road to

healing without a therapist. I remember it was a " lightbulb moment "

for me when reading what's on this board and reading the

book " Emotional Blackmail " -- suddenly I was a different person.

Like I said, I do have a therapist, but I only see her as part of a

women's support group. I don't go to individual sessions anymore.

You can do it -- We're rooting for you!

{Big Hugs}

-Kyla

>

> -Hi Sara Jo thanks for your note

>

> > When she finally moved near me last December, (before I realized

> > there was a problem because I will still blinded by being the

> > obedient child etc)I thought it would be great. But the thing

is,

> > that is what it took for me to realize there was a problem and

it

> > got worse living near her.

>

>

> I understand completely! I almost got sucked into that scenario,

too.

> IT isn " t really safe for my mom to be at home, but she is sooo

> attached to the old family home I wasnt sure if she'd ever agree to

> move, so I almost suggested buying the place so she could move out

to

> assisted living or somewhere simpler. Immediately she had all these

> plans of moving into the basement but " not bothering me " . Well I

knew

> then that wouldn't work out, glad I got out of that idea before it

> went any further.

>

>

>

> > My mother, like yours , has many health problems, but it sounds

like

> > your mom's are worse than mine. It sounds like she does need a

nurse

> > or someone to care for her everyday, maybe someone who is

scheduled

> > to come in and see her for a few hours a day,

>

>

> Yeah, actually I forgot to mention but she does have home health

aides

> coming in several hours a day and a nurse checking in every week.

So

> it isn't total crisis yet. And no even if I were closer she'd be

just

> as miserable and get to blame me for that.

>

> So there

> > is nothing we can do that will completely satisfy our

> > parents,because no matter what, we are now adults and make

decisions

> > for ourselves without taking them into consideration,and they

hate

> > that.

>

>

> exactly right! Might as well concentrate on building our own

healthy

> lives! A therapist can be great, I am glad it is helping you! At

the

> moment I am in a non-English speaking area so if I can find an

English

> speaking therapist (my language skills are ok but for such

emotional

> topics using the motehr tongue is so much better) it would be

> phenomenally expensive. So at the moment I am going to try to read

the

> BPD literature and other self help options. My work is cyclical or

> seasonal though so during my next long break I'd like to check out

> some therapy when I go back.....

>

>

> Anyway thanks for writing and glad it helped you too... good luck

with

> the distance and guilt stuff.

>