RE: Re: all hell has broken loose

[Guest guest]

Hi Sara:

Hang in there! Just a few talking points off the top of my mind:

1. You are an amazing person! I think you said you were 23? Wow, bravo,

and I'm so proud of you for addressing this situation so early on! As I

mentioned, I had not really properly addressed the situation with my mom until

last

month and I'm 37 years old!

2. Only you can answer the question as to how long you should go until you

contact her again. My experience with breaking up with crummy boyfriends, and

with the recent " breakup " with my mom is that it's not healthy to run back

after you've made a commitment to yourself to do something about it. You've

already acknowledged that you can't live like this any longer. You put your

cards

on the table as to what your feelings are. If you stick to it and don't

allow yourself to get sucked back in, you are much more likely to finally break

the cycle of abuse. You need to be ready yourself to do this though. You can

always find support here for the decisions you make, but the final say has to

be with you in order for it to work.

3. I've learned as I've matured that if you are doing what is healthy for

you...what is right in your situation, if you are being true to yourself, it

doesn't matter what anyone thinks of you except yourself. I'm really serious -

not your mom, not your sister, not your family, not your bosses, not your

fiance, not anyone. If the people who are part of your life respect you as an

individual, they will respect the decisions you've made. You will eventually

find

out who really cares about you in this manner.

4. BPD just plain sucks.

5. Having a mom with it sucks even more.

5. Allowing the BPD of a loved one to control your actions, emotions, and

your own mental health...sucks the most.

You'll find your way. Be strong and keep coming here for support.

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am also going through this with my

mother. For the first time in my life I refuse to apologize, beg, and plead for

a relationship with her after she did what I asked her not to do which lead my

son to have another asthma attack. Clearly this was her poor decision but she

has chosen to give me the silent treatment for 3 weeks now. At first I felt like

you seem to feel. I was scared of losing my entire family, of being alone, of

being separate from her but after the first week I now realize how much calmer

my life is along with my husband and son. It is hard but I believe if you can

sit with these feelings and remind yourself what you are doing is healthy, what

you are doing is protecting yourself and your family then you will eventually

have peace. I'm not saying there still aren't times when I wonder if the phone

call I hear is her etc. but I have come to a place in my life where I am willing

to give up all ties with my family if that's what it takes to be free from her

control, free from her abuse, and free from her mixed messages. I hope this

helps.

kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: SaraJo@...: Tue, 16

Oct 2007 20:26:02 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken

loose

Yes, this is exactly how I feel. Like I am a " bad girl " . She may never speak to

me again because of what I said. What I am really afraid of is how it is going

to affect my sister's relationship with her. She worshipped my grandfather

growing up and until the day he died. she is always comparing her with me,

saying " i never would have treated grandpa the way you treat me " . today she

told me how she was with him all the time so he wouldn't be lonely. The reason

she did it was because he was old and dying of leukemia. He worked until the

last year of his life, until he was too sick to do it. although my mom has

health problems, she isn't dying. I feel like i need to justify myself to

everyone. even my sister. im not sure how much i can handle this...the only way

we will ever continue having a relationship is if i pursue her, apologize, beg

her practically. if i don't she will not make an effort to speak with me. I'm

not sure I can handle what it takes to get back into the relationship with her

again, but i know I cant handle going NC. what am I to do?> >> > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it

started out calmly. > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the

same way > > anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did when i

> > was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I see her > > or

spend time with her is out of obligation. things escalated. she > > thinks i

resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has nothing > > to do with it. she

thinks he is the reason we argue all the time. > > she blames me for letting him

come between us. this isn't true, and > > i tried to tell her. of course that

did no good. > > > > in the end things got heated. it was time for me to go. i

told her > > that i had been seeing a therapist about all this since july and >

> that she should do the same. she told me to tell my therapist and my > >

fiancee to kiss her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the way she > > used to

be). she says one day i will realize things and it will be > > too late. > > > >

i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not prepared for > > this.

Right now there are no words to describe the pain and terror I > > am feeling. I

need help. I have no one really to go to about this. I > > feel so alone right

now because no one can help me with this.> >>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am also going through this with my

mother. For the first time in my life I refuse to apologize, beg, and plead for

a relationship with her after she did what I asked her not to do which lead my

son to have another asthma attack. Clearly this was her poor decision but she

has chosen to give me the silent treatment for 3 weeks now. At first I felt like

you seem to feel. I was scared of losing my entire family, of being alone, of

being separate from her but after the first week I now realize how much calmer

my life is along with my husband and son. It is hard but I believe if you can

sit with these feelings and remind yourself what you are doing is healthy, what

you are doing is protecting yourself and your family then you will eventually

have peace. I'm not saying there still aren't times when I wonder if the phone

call I hear is her etc. but I have come to a place in my life where I am willing

to give up all ties with my family if that's what it takes to be free from her

control, free from her abuse, and free from her mixed messages. I hope this

helps.

kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: SaraJo@...: Tue, 16

Oct 2007 20:26:02 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken

loose

Yes, this is exactly how I feel. Like I am a " bad girl " . She may never speak to

me again because of what I said. What I am really afraid of is how it is going

to affect my sister's relationship with her. She worshipped my grandfather

growing up and until the day he died. she is always comparing her with me,

saying " i never would have treated grandpa the way you treat me " . today she

told me how she was with him all the time so he wouldn't be lonely. The reason

she did it was because he was old and dying of leukemia. He worked until the

last year of his life, until he was too sick to do it. although my mom has

health problems, she isn't dying. I feel like i need to justify myself to

everyone. even my sister. im not sure how much i can handle this...the only way

we will ever continue having a relationship is if i pursue her, apologize, beg

her practically. if i don't she will not make an effort to speak with me. I'm

not sure I can handle what it takes to get back into the relationship with her

again, but i know I cant handle going NC. what am I to do?> >> > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it

started out calmly. > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the

same way > > anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did when i

> > was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I see her > > or

spend time with her is out of obligation. things escalated. she > > thinks i

resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has nothing > > to do with it. she

thinks he is the reason we argue all the time. > > she blames me for letting him

come between us. this isn't true, and > > i tried to tell her. of course that

did no good. > > > > in the end things got heated. it was time for me to go. i

told her > > that i had been seeing a therapist about all this since july and >

> that she should do the same. she told me to tell my therapist and my > >

fiancee to kiss her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the way she > > used to

be). she says one day i will realize things and it will be > > too late. > > > >

i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not prepared for > > this.

Right now there are no words to describe the pain and terror I > > am feeling. I

need help. I have no one really to go to about this. I > > feel so alone right

now because no one can help me with this.> >>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am also going through this with my

mother. For the first time in my life I refuse to apologize, beg, and plead for

a relationship with her after she did what I asked her not to do which lead my

son to have another asthma attack. Clearly this was her poor decision but she

has chosen to give me the silent treatment for 3 weeks now. At first I felt like

you seem to feel. I was scared of losing my entire family, of being alone, of

being separate from her but after the first week I now realize how much calmer

my life is along with my husband and son. It is hard but I believe if you can

sit with these feelings and remind yourself what you are doing is healthy, what

you are doing is protecting yourself and your family then you will eventually

have peace. I'm not saying there still aren't times when I wonder if the phone

call I hear is her etc. but I have come to a place in my life where I am willing

to give up all ties with my family if that's what it takes to be free from her

control, free from her abuse, and free from her mixed messages. I hope this

helps.

kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: SaraJo@...: Tue, 16

Oct 2007 20:26:02 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken

loose

Yes, this is exactly how I feel. Like I am a " bad girl " . She may never speak to

me again because of what I said. What I am really afraid of is how it is going

to affect my sister's relationship with her. She worshipped my grandfather

growing up and until the day he died. she is always comparing her with me,

saying " i never would have treated grandpa the way you treat me " . today she

told me how she was with him all the time so he wouldn't be lonely. The reason

she did it was because he was old and dying of leukemia. He worked until the

last year of his life, until he was too sick to do it. although my mom has

health problems, she isn't dying. I feel like i need to justify myself to

everyone. even my sister. im not sure how much i can handle this...the only way

we will ever continue having a relationship is if i pursue her, apologize, beg

her practically. if i don't she will not make an effort to speak with me. I'm

not sure I can handle what it takes to get back into the relationship with her

again, but i know I cant handle going NC. what am I to do?> >> > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it

started out calmly. > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the

same way > > anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did when i

> > was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I see her > > or

spend time with her is out of obligation. things escalated. she > > thinks i

resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has nothing > > to do with it. she

thinks he is the reason we argue all the time. > > she blames me for letting him

come between us. this isn't true, and > > i tried to tell her. of course that

did no good. > > > > in the end things got heated. it was time for me to go. i

told her > > that i had been seeing a therapist about all this since july and >

> that she should do the same. she told me to tell my therapist and my > >

fiancee to kiss her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the way she > > used to

be). she says one day i will realize things and it will be > > too late. > > > >

i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not prepared for > > this.

Right now there are no words to describe the pain and terror I > > am feeling. I

need help. I have no one really to go to about this. I > > feel so alone right

now because no one can help me with this.> >>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I am also going through this with my

mother. For the first time in my life I refuse to apologize, beg, and plead for

a relationship with her after she did what I asked her not to do which lead my

son to have another asthma attack. Clearly this was her poor decision but she

has chosen to give me the silent treatment for 3 weeks now. At first I felt like

you seem to feel. I was scared of losing my entire family, of being alone, of

being separate from her but after the first week I now realize how much calmer

my life is along with my husband and son. It is hard but I believe if you can

sit with these feelings and remind yourself what you are doing is healthy, what

you are doing is protecting yourself and your family then you will eventually

have peace. I'm not saying there still aren't times when I wonder if the phone

call I hear is her etc. but I have come to a place in my life where I am willing

to give up all ties with my family if that's what it takes to be free from her

control, free from her abuse, and free from her mixed messages. I hope this

helps.

kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: SaraJo@...: Tue, 16

Oct 2007 20:26:02 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken

loose

Yes, this is exactly how I feel. Like I am a " bad girl " . She may never speak to

me again because of what I said. What I am really afraid of is how it is going

to affect my sister's relationship with her. She worshipped my grandfather

growing up and until the day he died. she is always comparing her with me,

saying " i never would have treated grandpa the way you treat me " . today she

told me how she was with him all the time so he wouldn't be lonely. The reason

she did it was because he was old and dying of leukemia. He worked until the

last year of his life, until he was too sick to do it. although my mom has

health problems, she isn't dying. I feel like i need to justify myself to

everyone. even my sister. im not sure how much i can handle this...the only way

we will ever continue having a relationship is if i pursue her, apologize, beg

her practically. if i don't she will not make an effort to speak with me. I'm

not sure I can handle what it takes to get back into the relationship with her

again, but i know I cant handle going NC. what am I to do?> >> > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it

started out calmly. > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the

same way > > anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did when i

> > was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I see her > > or

spend time with her is out of obligation. things escalated. she > > thinks i

resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has nothing > > to do with it. she

thinks he is the reason we argue all the time. > > she blames me for letting him

come between us. this isn't true, and > > i tried to tell her. of course that

did no good. > > > > in the end things got heated. it was time for me to go. i

told her > > that i had been seeing a therapist about all this since july and >

> that she should do the same. she told me to tell my therapist and my > >

fiancee to kiss her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the way she > > used to

be). she says one day i will realize things and it will be > > too late. > > > >

i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not prepared for > > this.

Right now there are no words to describe the pain and terror I > > am feeling. I

need help. I have no one really to go to about this. I > > feel so alone right

now because no one can help me with this.> >>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear Sara Jo,

I just started talking to my mom again this past Sat nite. I was totally NC

for 8 weeks. (you can back track these posts to see my first one posted

probally 3-4 wks ago) anyway.....the reason i let her enter my life again was

for the sake of my 7 yr old daughter. , you see my mother who was mad at

me.......of course had to cut my 2 kids out also. You asked about respect?

Well some of the best quotes i have heard from people who KNOW my mom is "

Wouldn't it be nice if you mom treated people the way she want's to be

treated " That is so true!! IT is so hard to think that you mom can treat you

this way, I asked my mother on Sat....Didnt you miss being with me? talking to

me? she shrugged and said NO. I refuse to believe that since she has called

me several times since saturday .

Listen to others and let her have her space, Enjoy the break. I was really

strong this time and was proud that i lasted as long as i did.

Guess what? I also managed to tell her that she has a problem and that things

dont have to be this way, that she has a disorder called BPD, Of course she

says " OH that must be what you and your sisters have " But she is wrong,, Now

over the weekend when she would get out of control, I told her......watch out

before i get the BOOK out. She is going to Fl for the holidays.......she may

get it in her suitcase. Many of you may have read my other posts about my

blood pressure being 165/105 yikes........guess what less than 24 hrs after

talking to my mom it was way below normal.........The power these Nada's have

over us and our emotions is terrifying....... But i am getting stronger....You

can too.

Good Luck, and take care.

Sara Jo wrote:

Thanks to all for all the replies today. It does bring me some

confort when you guys write back. It is about the only comfort I

have with this situation.

I think I made a mistake by telling her I've been in therapy for

this. She doesn't see this as me trying to get help, she sees it as

a way for me to bash her in front of someone else behind her back. I

guess I did use it as a weapon by telling her that. I wanted her to

know that it has gotten so bad that I couldn't handle it on my own.

I guess I had a childish moment.

While she was talking at me today, there were times where I felt

that I was the guilty one. Sometimes when she tells me that I'm

doing wrong (being disrespectful, not really caring, doing things

out of obligation) I feel like there might be some truth to it. Then

i start questioning myself all over again. Is there a name for this?

Also, how do you all show respect to a parent?

One thing she told me is that I act like I'm better than her. I

don't feel like I do, so I asked her what she meant by that, how do

I act better than her? she never gave me a clear answer. In fact,

She did this with everything she accuses me of. She accuses me of

all these things but can't ever give me an example.

How long should I go before I try to contact her again? When is the

right time?What do i say?

> > > >

> > > > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it started out

> > calmly.

> > > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the same

way

> > > > anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did

> > when i

> > > > was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I

see

> > her

> > > > or spend time with her is out of obligation. things

escalated.

> > she

> > > > thinks i resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has

> > nothing

> > > > to do with it. she thinks he is the reason we argue all the

> > time.

> > > > she blames me for letting him come between us. this isn't

> true,

> > and

> > > > i tried to tell her. of course that did no good.

> > > >

> > > > in the end things got heated. it was time for me to go. i

told

> > her

> > > > that i had been seeing a therapist about all this since july

> and

> > > > that she should do the same. she told me to tell my

therapist

> > and my

> > > > fiancee to kiss her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the

> way

> > she

> > > > used to be). she says one day i will realize things and it

> will

> > be

> > > > too late.

> > > >

> > > > i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not

> prepared

> > for

> > > > this. Right now there are no words to describe the pain and

> > terror I

> > > > am feeling. I need help. I have no one really to go to about

> > this. I

> > > > feel so alone right now because no one can help me with this.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Sara,

I think you show respect for a parent by becoming a healthy adult/parent

yourself. Also by giving her boundaries and maintaining your own boundaries

(leaving and cleaving to your new family) is another way an adult child shows

respect for her mother. I know you are anxious right now but try to sit with

those feelings and try not to make plans yet on when you should call her etc.

When i did this recently I was surprised at how peaceful I felt, and how for

once in my life I was in control over my own sanity, happiness, and peace.

Eventually my mother called but she still has not addressed the issue of putting

my child's life at risk. Until she does our conversations will be very

superficial. I am 1.5 weeks away from delivering my second child and I am a type

1 diabetic. My blood sugar has been under much better control since I have

distanced myself from my toxic mother. Once you allow yourself to experience the

initial anxiety and that passes (for the most part) then you can make rationale

decisions. I'm praying for you during this difficult time.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: SaraJo@...: Tue, 16

Oct 2007 22:12:47 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken

loose

Thanks to all for all the replies today. It does bring me some confort when you

guys write back. It is about the only comfort I have with this situation.I think

I made a mistake by telling her I've been in therapy for this. She doesn't see

this as me trying to get help, she sees it as a way for me to bash her in front

of someone else behind her back. I guess I did use it as a weapon by telling her

that. I wanted her to know that it has gotten so bad that I couldn't handle it

on my own. I guess I had a childish moment. While she was talking at me today,

there were times where I felt that I was the guilty one. Sometimes when she

tells me that I'm doing wrong (being disrespectful, not really caring, doing

things out of obligation) I feel like there might be some truth to it. Then i

start questioning myself all over again. Is there a name for this? Also, how do

you all show respect to a parent? One thing she told me is that I act like I'm

better than her. I don't feel like I do, so I asked her what she meant by that,

how do I act better than her? she never gave me a clear answer. In fact, She did

this with everything she accuses me of. She accuses me of all these things but

can't ever give me an example. How long should I go before I try to contact her

again? When is the right time?What do i say?> > >

>> > > > Just got back from my lunch break with mom. it started out > > calmly.

> > > > she started talking about how i don't look at her the same way > > > >

anymore, and that i should look at her the same way as i did > > when i > > > >

was 10. she says i don't respect her,and the only reason I see > > her > > > >

or spend time with her is out of obligation. things escalated. > > she > > > >

thinks i resent her because she hates my fiancee. this has > > nothing > > > >

to do with it. she thinks he is the reason we argue all the > > time. > > > >

she blames me for letting him come between us. this isn't > true, > > and > > >

> i tried to tell her. of course that did no good. > > > > > > > > in the end

things got heated. it was time for me to go. i told > > her > > > > that i had

been seeing a therapist about all this since july > and > > > > that she should

do the same. she told me to tell my therapist > > and my > > > > fiancee to kiss

her ass. i told her how much I miss her (the > way > > she > > > > used to be).

she says one day i will realize things and it > will > > be > > > > too late. >

> > > > > > > i don't think she will ever speak to me again. I am not > prepared

> > for > > > > this. Right now there are no words to describe the pain and > >

terror I > > > > am feeling. I need help. I have no one really to go to about >

> this. I > > > > feel so alone right now because no one can help me with this.>

> > >> > >> >>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

After reading your post I thought I was reading my own. My mother does the same

thing. She goes over and over the same issues and asks for my advice. After I

give it she never follows through or just does the opposite. Then she blames it

on my father or whoever else she can blame. I finally have realized that I not

going to sit anymore and listen to her project her anxiety, fear, and other

issues onto me so she feels better and I am the one left feeling drained or

anxious. I practiced this with her yesterday and this was the first time I have

been able to follow through with this. I felt very pleased and it was actually

much easier than I anticipated. The key was for me to stay detached from her

throughout the entire conversation.

Kelley

To: WTOAdultChildren1@...: smhtrain2@...: Mon, 22 Oct

2007 23:26:32 +0000Subject: Re: all hell has broken loose

Hi QZ - here are answers to your questions. > > > > Also,

how do you all show respect to a parent? > > > > *******I don't yell and scream

at my parents. I don't abuse them. > > When I was in contact, I always tried to

understand where they were > > coming from in their thinking. I gently offered

suggestions when > > they complained about problems. I visited them regularly,

and I > > taught my children to be respectful to them in the same way. I > >

participated in family events, I tried to be helpful when they > > needed it. >

> That is wonderful of you. I try to offer suggestions to my mother when> she

talks about her problems. But she goes over the same problems over> and over

again, and ignores my advice. Sometimes I say " well, we've> discussed that

already so let's move on. " But I get annoyed and> resentful when she asks my

advice and promptly ignores it. Not a thank> you, and then she goes and does the

opposite of whatever I've> suggested. So I feel like why do I bother?> > Do you

experience this issue? How do you deal with it?#####No - my nada is not like

that. In fact, she rarely asks for any help, and never asks for advice. However,

when she would bemoan her situation, I would offer her suggestions. She always

found something to say that in effect said my suggestion would not work. (Of

course it wouldn't, she didn't want it to, she really wanted to stay in her

martyr mode.) I don't bother any more. I was no contact for over 3 years, and

just this past Spring went limited contact. I do respond to her as truthfully as

I can, within the realm of common sense. Basically, I am just going through

motions when I am with her, and I am doing it more for support for my father

than anything else. There is also an element of feeling that as she is my

elderly parent, I do have 'some' responsibility. Not to make her happy, or to

cave into her wants, but at a moral and humanistic level, I do want to have some

idea of what is happening in their lives. She is screwing up things royally, and

it is good to have some idea of what is going on for the time when the calvary

has to be called in. I think I have detached quite a bit over the time I was NC,

so I focus on not getting emotionally responsive. #####> > > I have come to look

at it differently now. I now respect my mother > > by being truthful about our

relationship. I no longer pretend it is > > something that it isn't. > > Kudos

to you for being able to do that. How do you manage it? I feel> like I'm stuck

in this weird place where I know that our> " relationship " is a fraud, but I

don't want to say so because I don't> want to upset her. I try not say that I

love her, but sometimes she> expects to hear it back.> > How is one truthful

about a non-existent relationship without falling> into a guilt trip trap?

######I am truthful to myself. I don't bother to tell her my thoughts - why

bother. She can't understand, she will twist it into something else. I remind

myself that she is the person who brought me into this world, she took care of

most of my physical needs. But she did nothing else positive, and alot more

negative. My truth is that I was brought into this world by parents who were

incapable of loving or nurturing me. They were so consumed with their own demons

that I was only an afterthought - and only when I could make them feel better in

some way. It sucks - but not as much as believing a fantasy and wondering why

life isn't as good as it should be. #####> > > I respectfully give her the

opportunity to > > be a better mother to me. > > Wow. How do you do that? I feel

like my mother could *never* be a> better mother to me. She showed me that on

her recent visit by giving> me a used necklace for my birthday (I suspect her

boyfriend bought it> for her, she wore it, and then decided she didn't like it).

Then she> bought me some assorted dinnerware after attempting to make me feel>

guilty about buying them, and then extracting a price for giving them> to me

(having to hang out with her all day until late at night, when I> was

exhausted). She doesn't seem to care a whit about me, and doesn't> even remember

that I have adrenal fatigue and/or chronic fatigue issues.> > I feel like

getting any mothering from her is like extracting water> from a stone. How do

you do it?######My statement was probably not clear. I give her the opportunity

to be a better mother - but she doesn't take it. She doesn't even see the

oppportunity. She doesn't see that she has responsibility in the demise of our

relationship. When I resumed limited contact, her comment to my sister was

" Sylvia seems more like her old self again " . So, in her mind, my whole time at

no contact was because I wasn't myself. It had nothing to do with the ranting

she did during our last family vacation. I guess giving her the opportunity is

means setting my boundaries and giving her the chance to respect them. She

doesn't do that - but she has the opportunity to do so. I hope that doesn't

sound like double talk, but it is how I think through the situation. I have

found the limited contact more dificult than no contact. Maybe this is an

indication of my black and white thinking. QZ, I hope this clarifies for you -

but let me know if you have more questions. #######> > qwerty>

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