Re: Average ACL visits in OP

November 22, 2004

about 18 to 24 visits

November 22, 2004

Ours are 18-24 visits.

Bubba Klostermann OT, CVE, CEAS

CEO, WORK & REHAB

4546 South 14th

Abilene, Texas 79605

ph:

fax:

email: bubklo@...

November 22, 2004

Joe,

I think the average number of visits for a post op ACL reconstruction

patient depends on a lot of factors such as the protocol, the progress the

patient makes over time, the healing of the patient, the premorbid level of

function of the patient and at what point post surgery the patient initiates

PT. I would give a conservative estimate by saying about 25-40 visits.

Mike Connors, MPT

Director of Therapy Services

Greater Therapy Center-Trinity

4323 N. y Lane Suite 307

Carrollton, TX 75010

Average ACL visits in OP

>

> Would anyone care to chime in on how many average visits they utilize for

> post operative ACL reconstruction patients?

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

>

November 22, 2004

Joe,

According to The Guide To Physical Therapist Practice (Practice pattern 4H) the

expected range of number of visits is 12-60. Furthermore it states, " It is

anticipated that 80% of patients/clients who are classified into this pattern

will achieve the anticipated goals and expected outcomes within 12 to 60 visits

during a single episode of care. "

Peg

Peg Grey, PT, MA, ATC

Grey Physical Therapy & Sports Medicine Center

Integrated Rehabilitation Services, LLC

1379 Enfield Street

Enfield, CT 06082

Ph:

Fax:

E-mail: pgrey@...

Average ACL visits in OP

>

> Would anyone care to chime in on how many average visits they utilize for

> post operative ACL reconstruction patients?

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a professional

workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join and

participate now!

>

November 23, 2004

Peg:

I think that this type of patient might more appropriately fall within

Pattern 4I, which includes patients that have had " Soft tissue surgery " ,

such as " Muscle, tendon, ligament, capsule repair or reconstruction " . This

pattern lists a range of visits between 6 & 70. In addition, if the patient

has none of the complicating factors affecting frequency and duration, they

would likely fall at the lower end of this range. Please don't misconstrue

that I am implying a patient who is s/p ACL reconstruction needs 6 visits.

I would also suggest that we look at this topic, as with all others, from

the perspective of justifying the need for our visits. Frequency and

duration are based on many factors, not just their surgical history. Having

treated more than a few of these patients in my career, I can honestly say

that many were ready for discharge to an independent program long before

their coverage " ran out " . This experience is supported by the above

reference to factors complicating or facilitating recovery. I suspect, and

would suggest, that most payers will begin to agree.

I would argue that these types of patients are an excellent example of the

future role that we need to play in the health care system. We do indeed

evaluate, manage, and prescribe for our patients. We prescribe exercise and

activities, rather than medications. If our patients do not follow our

prescription, they are likely to experience a poor outcome. Finally, with

the ever-increasing move toward consumer-directed health care, we will

likely need to adapt our approach to patient care, as will our patients.

Respectfully,

Ken Mailly, PT

Mailly & Inglett Consulting, LLC

Tel. 973 692-0033

Fax 973 633-9557

68 Seneca Trail

Wayne, NJ, 07470

www.NJPTAid.biz

Bridging the Gap!

Re: Average ACL visits in OP

Joe,

According to The Guide To Physical Therapist Practice (Practice pattern 4H)

the expected range of number of visits is 12-60. Furthermore it states, "

It is anticipated that 80% of patients/clients who are classified into this

pattern will achieve the anticipated goals and expected outcomes within 12

to 60 visits during a single episode of care. "

Peg

Peg Grey, PT, MA, ATC

Grey Physical Therapy & Sports Medicine Center

Integrated Rehabilitation Services, LLC

1379 Enfield Street

Enfield, CT 06082

Ph:

Fax:

E-mail: pgrey@...

Average ACL visits in OP

>

> Would anyone care to chime in on how many average visits they utilize for

> post operative ACL reconstruction patients?

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

>

November 23, 2004

Thanks for the reply. Well 6-70 visits is quite a broad range. I guess I

was looking for actual rough averages from PT's who see a lot of post op

ACL's rather than the extremely broad range offered in the guide.

Re: Average ACL visits in OP

Joe,

According to The Guide To Physical Therapist Practice (Practice pattern 4H)

the expected range of number of visits is 12-60. Furthermore it states, "

It is anticipated that 80% of patients/clients who are classified into this

pattern will achieve the anticipated goals and expected outcomes within 12

to 60 visits during a single episode of care. "

Peg

Peg Grey, PT, MA, ATC

Grey Physical Therapy & Sports Medicine Center

Integrated Rehabilitation Services, LLC

1379 Enfield Street

Enfield, CT 06082

Ph:

Fax:

E-mail: pgrey@...

Average ACL visits in OP

>

> Would anyone care to chime in on how many average visits they utilize for

> post operative ACL reconstruction patients?

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

>

November 24, 2004

Joe,

I think that asking about number of visits is only half of the

question. I think it would also be important to know the level of

function achieved with the average number of visits.

I also think that from experience of attempting to track my own

outcomes that answering your question would be very difficult. As an

individual therapist attempting to track my own outcomes, when I

attempt to look at a specific group of patients my N value

substantially decreases. I have 2 years worth of data from a

hospital-based outpatient satellite practice setting and an N value

of 296 orthopaedic patients... but if I start becoming specific in

analyzing the data - for example patients that are categorized into

the bony or soft tissue surgery category with a knee body part (I

didn't capture specific surgical procedures), I only have an N = 6

for patients in that category with both initial and discharge outcome

scores combined with the fact that the reason for discharge was goals

met or a plateau in progress.

In my opinion, the best therapists to probably be able to respond to

the specific question you are asking, IF outcomes are being tracked,

would be the therapists working in POPTS or as you said those that

have a high volume of patients with ACL reconstructions.

Selena Horner, PT, MS, GCS, ATC

November 24, 2004

I agree that functional outcome data would be great but felt that it would

be difficult at best for a response if I posed my question that way. I have

my own functional criteria designed primarily for teen to young adult

athletes that works well. Thanks to members who have replied, mission

accomplished.