Guest guest Posted February 16, 2002 Report Share Posted February 16, 2002 Folks and Fibbers, Am I just being over-sensitive at present?.... I've just received the following in one of the mailing lists I subscribe to. Generally, I quite like Dr Mercola's e-mailshots, but there's something about this one that I am not sure about. Maybe (a) it is the first mention of my own main health problem, or ( it is his put-down of ablation ( " killing electrical cells in the heart or the veins is in no way shape or form treating the cause of the problem " ) when I am now scheduled to have one myself. I really feel that though we all try other forms of dealing with our AF affliction (me as much as anyone else), and though we realise that ablation may indeed be treating the symptom rather than the underlying problem, until anyone can know really what the true underlying problem IS, and how then to treat it, and all this with a similar success rate to ablation, then I think his allusion that his " EFT " and eating plan is a viable alternative to a state of affairs where ablation becomes viable is misguided. If you have any strong feelings, then as well as posting here, why not contact him - http://www.mercola.com should have his e-mail. I am going to. I think he could be a useful ally in trying to get to the bottom of AF and in bringing it to the fore, but I for one would like him to know that until such time as he can produce a better cure for AF than ablation, he needs to avoid these claims. ============================================ Atrial Fibrillation Kill Some Heart Cells or Normalize Them? Using radiofrequency energy to disconnect misbehaving muscle cells from the heart can treat the heart-rhythm disorder atrial fibrillation in some patients. Atrial fibrillation is a very chaotic and irregular heartbeat that occurs in the upper chambers of the heart, called the atrium. While the heart-rhythm disturbances of atrial fibrillation are not themselves life-threatening, the condition does raise the risk that blood clots will form and possibly lead to a stroke. The muscle " sleeves " that envelop the pulmonary veins -- blood vessels that carry oxygenated blood from the lungs to the heart -- are frequently the source of these heart-rhythm abnormalities. Signals, or extra beats, originating from the muscle sleeves can trigger atrial fibrillation. Atrial fibrillation can be treated with drugs or an electric jolt to shock the heart back into normal rhythm. Attempts have also been made to treat the condition by ablating, or destroying, some heart muscle cells and thus isolating the source of the extra beats from the rest of the heart. However, patients treated with this technique often require additional treatments. Researchers note that past ablation attempts only targeted veins that were shown in diagnostic tests to be a source of abnormal heart rhythms. But these tests may not always identify source of the extra beats. Because these extra heartbeats may originate from any of the four pulmonary veins, in the study they electrically isolated at least three of the four pulmonary veins and destroyed those cells with radioablation. After 5 months of follow-up, 70% of patients with intermittent atrial fibrillation were free from recurrent irregular heartbeats without the need for an anti-arrhythmic drugs. An additional 13% of patients had greater than 90% improvement in their symptoms either without or with an anti-arrhythmic drug that was previously ineffective. In patients with persistent atrial fibrillation -- meaning the condition had been present for months to years -- only 29% were either free of recurrent atrial fibrillation or had a significant improvement after 5 months of follow-up. Circulation January 29, 2002;105 DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT: Atrial fibrillation is a difficult challenge to correct, but killing electrical cells in the heart or the veins is in no way shape or form treating the cause of the problem. It is just one more example of traditional medicine using surgery to treat a symptom. The heart is easily influenced by input from the autonomic nervous system, or the part of the brain that controls breathing, digestion, and a variety of other automatic functions of the body. Emotional influences can significantly change one's heart rhythm. PVCs or PACs are other types of irregular heart rhythms that are typically far less dangerous than atrial fibrillation. PVCs are notoriously amenable to complete improvement with bioenergetic techniques. I have used EFT a number of times now to successfully eliminate those problems. Atrial fibrillation is a more complex and persistent problem that requires rigid application of the eating plan in addition to EFT. I have also used EFT to either significantly reduce the dangerous medications that a person is using for their atrial fibrillation or to completely eliminate it. If you are interested in finding out how you can learn EFT please go to the EFT Resource page to find a number of different options that are available. I hope to offer links to qualified clinicians in the near future once our new web site is deployed. ================================================= Best of health to all, Vicky London, UK, 1954 model http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/ " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " - anon (?) via Ellen --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2002 Report Share Posted February 16, 2002 Hi Vicky I can see why you are worried. Ablation must be an awful prospect to consider. And you really have to be sure to have it done. But I can see where Dr Mercola is coming from. IT is, in effect, how I have been treating myself with great success. By cutting out all known additives and preservatives in and on food. A lot of these chemicals are now known to cause havoc with the endocrine system by opening calcium channels and depleting us of magnesium. They also attack the hpothalamus which is responsible for the whole endocrine system. Cutting out these chemicals is difficult because they are even on fresh food like potatoes. I believe that once we have got rid of the excitoxins in our bodies, our endocrine system goes back to normal and we do not have problems with other foods, such as carbohydrates, wheat, dairy (is very adulterated)etc. I am now two months into this strict regime, and can only say very positive things about its effects. PErhaps whilst you are waiting you should give it a strict try. Then if it doesn't work for you, you know you are doing the best thing for your symptoms, which plays havoc with quality of life. But from what I have been reading this is one of the biggest breakthroughs to date on understanding many syndromes, such as AF, asthma, diabetes, ME, etc. I think in the near future you will all be reading a lot more about it. Fran ) > Folks and Fibbers, > > Am I just being over-sensitive at present?.... > > I've just received the following in one of the mailing lists I subscribe > to. Generally, I quite like Dr Mercola's e-mailshots, but there's > something about this one that I am not sure about. Maybe (a) it is the > first mention of my own main health problem, or ( it is his put- down > of ablation ( " killing electrical cells in the heart or the veins is in > no way shape or form treating the cause of the problem " ) when I am now > scheduled to have one myself. > > I really feel that though we all try other forms of dealing with our AF > affliction (me as much as anyone else), and though we realise that > ablation may indeed be treating the symptom rather than the underlying > problem, until anyone can know really what the true underlying problem > IS, and how then to treat it, and all this with a similar success rate > to ablation, then I think his allusion that his " EFT " and eating plan is > a viable alternative to a state of affairs where ablation becomes viable > is misguided. > > If you have any strong feelings, then as well as posting here, why not > contact him - http://www.mercola.com should have his e-mail. I am going > to. I think he could be a useful ally in trying to get to the bottom of > AF and in bringing it to the fore, but I for one would like him to know > that until such time as he can produce a better cure for AF than > ablation, he needs to avoid these claims. > > ============================================ > > Atrial Fibrillation Kill Some Heart Cells or Normalize Them? > > Using radiofrequency energy to disconnect misbehaving muscle cells from > the heart can treat the heart-rhythm disorder atrial fibrillation in > some patients. > > Atrial fibrillation is a very chaotic and irregular heartbeat that > occurs in the upper chambers of the heart, called the atrium. While the > heart-rhythm disturbances of atrial fibrillation are not themselves > life-threatening, the condition does raise the risk that blood clots > will form and possibly lead to a stroke. > > The muscle " sleeves " that envelop the pulmonary veins -- blood vessels > that carry oxygenated blood from the lungs to the heart -- are > frequently the source of these heart-rhythm abnormalities. Signals, or > extra beats, originating from the muscle sleeves can trigger atrial > fibrillation. > > Atrial fibrillation can be treated with drugs or an electric jolt to > shock the heart back into normal rhythm. Attempts have also been made to > treat the condition by ablating, or destroying, some heart muscle cells > and thus isolating the source of the extra beats from the rest of the > heart. However, patients treated with this technique often require > additional treatments. > > Researchers note that past ablation attempts only targeted veins that > were shown in diagnostic tests to be a source of abnormal heart rhythms. > But these tests may not always identify source of the extra beats. > > Because these extra heartbeats may originate from any of the four > pulmonary veins, in the study they electrically isolated at least three > of the four pulmonary veins and destroyed those cells with > radioablation. > > After 5 months of follow-up, 70% of patients with intermittent atrial > fibrillation were free from recurrent irregular heartbeats without the > need for an anti-arrhythmic drugs. An additional 13% of patients had > greater than 90% improvement in their symptoms either without or with an > anti-arrhythmic drug that was previously ineffective. > > In patients with persistent atrial fibrillation -- meaning the condition > had been present for months to years -- only 29% were either free of > recurrent atrial fibrillation or had a significant improvement after 5 > months of follow-up. > > Circulation January 29, 2002;105 > > DR. MERCOLA'S COMMENT: > > Atrial fibrillation is a difficult challenge to correct, but killing > electrical cells in the heart or the veins is in no way shape or form > treating the cause of the problem. It is just one more example of > traditional medicine using surgery to treat a symptom. > > The heart is easily influenced by input from the autonomic nervous > system, or the part of the brain that controls breathing, digestion, and > a variety of other automatic functions of the body. > > Emotional influences can significantly change one's heart rhythm. PVCs > or PACs are other types of irregular heart rhythms that are typically > far less dangerous than atrial fibrillation. PVCs are notoriously > amenable to complete improvement with bioenergetic techniques. I have > used EFT a number of times now to successfully eliminate those problems. > > Atrial fibrillation is a more complex and persistent problem that > requires rigid application of the eating plan in addition to EFT. I have > also used EFT to either significantly reduce the dangerous medications > that a person is using for their atrial fibrillation or to completely > eliminate it. > > If you are interested in finding out how you can learn EFT please go to > the EFT Resource page to find a number of different options that are > available. I hope to offer links to qualified clinicians in the near > future once our new web site is deployed. > > ================================================= > > Best of health to all, > Vicky > > London, UK, 1954 model > http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/ > > " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " > - anon (?) via Ellen > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hi Vicky, please excuse the terseness of this reply - I only have a couple of minutes to write this - I have to fix a speaker before band practice - I hope fixing a tweeter is easier then fixing AF! (I think there's a broken wire so I'll be ablating with my soldering iron!) Just a couple of observations really.... In many people AF is a symptom of some other problem. In many people AF is (or becomes) the problem because of structural changes in the heart. IMHO many (if not all) of the structural changes are irreversible. There is no'cure all'. Although eating healthy is always a good idea and as much as we would like to believe we can be cured simply by dietary changes it will not cure all of us. It may cure some and help others but it's not going to cure all of us. It makes sense to me to always go after the cause rather than the symptom and it's always the best place to start (so long as time doesn't restrict you to chasing the symptom).There can come a time when it really doesn't matter if it's a symptom or a cause as long as you get rid of the damn thing. Ablation is not my idea of a first line solution but I'm glad it's in the list. Sorry for the brevity but I wanted to reply - when I have more time I'll try visit the site and send the Doc an email. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 on Sun, 17 Feb 2002 at 10:56:16, Driscoll wrote : >There can come a time when it really doesn't matter if >it's a symptom or a cause as long as you get rid of the damn thing. Yup ! Am currently there and wearing the T-shirt! >Ablation is not my idea of a first line solution but I'm glad it's in the >list. Ditto. Thanks for your reply, . Best of health to all, Vicky London, UK, 1954 model " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " - anon (?) via Ellen --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2002 Report Share Posted February 17, 2002 Hi there. I drop in every once in a while when I find something that might help the others here, as I have conquered my afib nearly a year ago. Apparently there are others out there who have also conquered their afib, so maybe we should all get together to help the rest of you. Dr. Mercola is certainly right on one point - ablation is a really bad idea. You see, afib apperars to be a natural defensive mechanism to avoid having the heart produce blood pressure peaks when it receives screwball signals. Further, afib is usually accompanied by a variety of other symptoms, and ablation typically does NOTHING for the other symptoms. Afib appears to always have multiple causes, so correcting any of the ones near the top of the list will stop it. Low body temperature and candida are examples of things that, when fixed, have actually cured people's afib. Afib appears to ALWAYS be accompanied by some part of the metabolic system operating just at one end of its operating range, but not beyond. There are many things that can be at the end of their range, there are two ends to every range, there are two sides to each end, etc. Hence, some detective work is needed to find just what is YOUR parameter that is at its end, which end it is at, which side of the end it is typically on, and what the cause and effect chain was that got it there. For example, being at the edge of adrenal exhaustion is often connected with afib. Having sex helps some people, as it drives them into adrenal exhaustion and beyond the boundary connected with their afib. However, sex can make others, or the same person on a different occasion worse, as it pushes them toward the boundary that causes them problems. I am personally convinced that anyone who undertakes understanding the various parts of their metabolic control system will discover that something is just at its operational limit. With me it was my vagal system - no surprise since I had vagally mediated AF. That was being overloaded from too much adrenaline, which was excessive because of my low body temperature, which was low from a tonsillectomy some 50 years earlier. I reset my body temperature back up to 98.6F, and my afib disappeared as expected, ALONG WITH MY OTHER AF SYMPTOMS. No more constipation, beer belly, low stamina, etc., etc. Again, Dr. Mercola is right. If you DO stop your afib, what will you use as an immediate indicator that something is wrong? My search for a cure to my many problems would have been impossibly difficult if it weren't for the fast feedback of my afib. If you are ablated, you may be in effect PERMANENTLY giving up on fixing your other symptoms. However, Dr. Mercola was wrong in believing that you can just change your diet and cure your afib. I think everyone here has enough experience to see just how naive this view is. You have to fix the problem to fix the problem, so if your problem isn't diet, then changing your diet isn't going to help. Steve ====================== > on Sun, 17 Feb 2002 at 10:56:16, Driscoll > <james@d...> wrote : > > >There can come a time when it really doesn't matter if > >it's a symptom or a cause as long as you get rid of the damn thing. > > Yup ! Am currently there and wearing the T-shirt! > > >Ablation is not my idea of a first line solution but I'm glad it's in the > >list. > > Ditto. > > Thanks for your reply, . > > Best of health to all, > Vicky > > London, UK, 1954 model > > " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " > - anon (?) via Ellen > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 on Mon, 18 Feb 2002 at 02:47:35, steverichfield wrote : <stuff snipped> Yes, Steve, but when all the other methods (including yours) have been tried (as in my case), and the afib is still getting worse, I have no problem with ablation. If it stops my AF, I frankly don't care if it is only curing the symptoms. I and others (and doctors) aren't unaware when it comes to realising what modality of treatment ablation is, and I don't want others telling me I shouldn't have it. Don't forget that there are other cases of AF than purely lone AF (for which the alternatives tend to be suitable) - for example, I have a mild MVP which may now be contributing, probably plus years of slow remodelling. It's one thing to help with alternative suggestions, but not anyone's place to say that ablation straight is a bad idea and shouldn't be done, which is what I feel you and Dr M were saying. What is just as bad, imho, is to say that dietary and other methods will cure AF when things just aren't that predictable - the body is too complex. What I've noticed is that I think the alternative methods tend to work OK if you catch your AF early enough. If however it escapes control, then you ain't really got many other options, unless you want to live with this awful affliction. The alternative methods actually worked for me for 4 years, for nearly all of the time, but it finally escaped control, and all I want now is for it to STOP! Sorry if this comes over as a bit of a rant. Best of health to all, Vicky " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " - anon (?) via Ellen --------------------------------------------------------------------------------\ ------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2002 Report Share Posted February 18, 2002 Hi Steve Well done!! I was interseted in what you said about low body temperature. How on earth do you get this back to parr. I have low body temp. I am hoping it will pick up, as is my BP. But I would be very intersted to hear how you did it. I'd like to say though - Changing you diet is not necessarily naive. It sounds it, but.... I can't believe what it has done for me. There is also a Dr down south who has cured his cancer from eating only unadulterated food. HAve you researched what goes into food these days, even fresh stuff. I am well on my way to conquering my AF. I know that it was down to eating 'neurotoxic' food full of 'excitoxins'. I am now off all meds and additives for two months and have only had one AF run in this two months (this was a daily and constant occurence before). The reason for this one run was I ate supermarket cooked chicken. I know this sounds ridiculous but they are full of chemicals and can even be injected and basted with MSG. I mean we are what we eat. I have also got rid of all my other associated problems, which for me was fibromyalgia, cramps, chronic fatigue, depression, apnoea, blurring eysight etc (I am hoping that it has also got rid of my associated seizures, but they only come every year or so. But it had been at least 13 months since the last one) I know for a fact that my endocrine system was totally out of whack. The change in my health over the last two months is incredible. I can understand why people want ablations. I was arguing with my Dr for one not even a year ago. But I am so glad I found this method that helped me. I know it could help others but as you said everyone seems to think it naive. As I say you shouldn't knock it till you've tried it. And it is difficult as it means changing everything you used to shop for. Not eating your favourites, peeling most things, unless they are home grown, no more shop jam or cereal, meat, checking on preservatives, buying bulk pulses, beans nuts, herbs spices, meat from source etc etc. And there are plenty of resources out there to help you know what they are in and understand the chemical significence of it and how they compete with the enzymes in our body. Leading to all sorts of problems including AF. I mean why can't it be something so simple. We are what we eat. Fran > > on Sun, 17 Feb 2002 at 10:56:16, Driscoll > > <james@d...> wrote : > > > > >There can come a time when it really doesn't matter if > > >it's a symptom or a cause as long as you get rid of the damn thing. > > > > Yup ! Am currently there and wearing the T-shirt! > > > > >Ablation is not my idea of a first line solution but I'm glad it's > in the > > >list. > > > > Ditto. > > > > Thanks for your reply, . > > > > Best of health to all, > > Vicky > > > > London, UK, 1954 model > > > > " We don't have a hopeless end; we have an endless hope " > > - anon (?) via Ellen > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ----------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 Dear ph, I'm not familiar with the interactions of drugs and vitamin/mineral supplements specifically, but know that they exist. When I use Hawthorne, for example, I feel quite flushed and my heart rate increases. Someone posted a website which goes into this subject and hopefully they'll post the info again. Re: Re: Dr Mercola's article on A-Fib > Can anyone tell me what the diet is. I would like to try chemical free, to > see if it will work for me. I am going to start getting a good massage every > week and go to an energy healer and continue with my accupuncturist. These > all have brought some temporary relief in the past, and I have cut out a lot > of different things from my diet before and have achieved some sense of > relaxation. But....My atrium(s) still flutter all the time and the lowest > heart rate I have been able to get (sporadically) is about 117BPM. I am > taking Metoprolol 200mg a day and 5mg coumadin a day and 240mg of Cardizem a > day. Taking a little more of the beta blocker (metoprolol) brings it down a > little more, but eventually my body will get used to it like it has in the > past and no longer respond as well to it. I have had this for 12 years. I > started out on Digitalis 0.25mg a day/then went to tenormin, > flecainide(briefly), sotalol (Betapace) then on > amiodarone and metoprolol. The Betapace really screwed with my body. It took > so long to get to a therapeutic level and resulted in some of the brain fog > symptoms listed by others (tics in the extremities, memory loss, irritability > vision problems, etc. > the metoprolol and the amiodarone have both ( at least I feel ) not much > relief and a bit of blurred vision, and my heart rate seems to be going up > and down like a yo-yo. > Quite personally I have tried lots of herbs, (hawthorne, purported to > normalize heart rates and blood pressure), all kinds of vitamins. The last > time I went to the ER Feb 5th I felt like my face was going to explode. I > would appreciate any information from anyone who has found anything that will > help control this. Anything that works. > Thank You God bless all, ph > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2002 Report Share Posted February 20, 2002 > Dear ph, > > I'm not familiar with the interactions of drugs and vitamin/mineral > supplements specifically, but know that they exist. When I use Hawthorne, > for example, I feel quite flushed and my heart rate increases. > Someone posted a website which goes into this subject and hopefully they'll > post the info again. > > I don't know if it was me, but I posted this one once. It goes into the therapeutic effects and side effects of herbs. I also know of another site where you can put in drug names and any interactions will come up. http.//www.ny2aap.org.npsherbs.html http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Home Hope this helps. Fran > Re: Re: Dr Mercola's article on A-Fib > > > > Can anyone tell me what the diet is. I would like to try chemical free, to > > see if it will work for me. I am going to start getting a good massage > every > > week and go to an energy healer and continue with my accupuncturist. These > > all have brought some temporary relief in the past, and I have cut out a > lot > > of different things from my diet before and have achieved some sense of > > relaxation. But....My atrium(s) still flutter all the time and the lowest > > heart rate I have been able to get (sporadically) is about 117BPM. I am > > taking Metoprolol 200mg a day and 5mg coumadin a day and 240mg of Cardizem > a > > day. Taking a little more of the beta blocker (metoprolol) brings it down > a > > little more, but eventually my body will get used to it like it has in the > > past and no longer respond as well to it. I have had this for 12 years. I > > started out on Digitalis 0.25mg a day/then went to tenormin, > > flecainide(briefly), sotalol (Betapace) then on > > amiodarone and metoprolol. The Betapace really screwed with my body. It > took > > so long to get to a therapeutic level and resulted in some of the brain > fog > > symptoms listed by others (tics in the extremities, memory loss, > irritability > > vision problems, etc. > > the metoprolol and the amiodarone have both ( at least I feel ) not much > > relief and a bit of blurred vision, and my heart rate seems to be going up > > and down like a yo-yo. > > Quite personally I have tried lots of herbs, (hawthorne, purported to > > normalize heart rates and blood pressure), all kinds of vitamins. The last > > time I went to the ER Feb 5th I felt like my face was going to explode. I > > would appreciate any information from anyone who has found anything that > will > > help control this. Anything that works. > > Thank You God bless all, ph > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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