Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi ~ I am going to repost something I posted here back in March 2007 about my experience with WP: I am going to post symptoms of too much P....there is a lot being said on the RL group about the effects of too much P and how excess stays in the fat and causes problems. Many of us on the Wiley Protocol (and me, who just went on it for 10 days, but was loading P since last Oct, trying to trigger " apoptosis " to prevent uterine cancer - what a lame brain...) who did these huge doses of P for months (usually 6 months or more) have found that they are not doing well....the cure for too much P building up in you is to stop it for a while. Maybe those of us here who have been on lower doses have not encountered any of these symptoms, but with me, they came on in a subtle manner and I never related them to too much P, because I had always done well on P and it gave me energy and diuretic action. A few of the symptoms,such as belly fat or thickening waist can happen with too much of a lot of the hormones, such as DHEA, cortisol, even estrogen, I guess, but seemed to occur for the first time while OD-ing on transdermal P.... I am going to list the symptoms...I have ALL of them and have gone off the P this month and for who knows how long: *excessive thirst *insulin resistance *signs of dehydration but at the same time, edema or fluid retention *constipation *chapped lips *excessively dry, itchy or flaky skin *rashes, hives, excema *unusual break outs, acne *fuzzy face, facial hair, whiskers *belly fat, or thickening waistline *weight gain *kidney stones, kidney pain *pain in neck *pain in connective tissue, joints *headaches upon waking or during the day (which are not usual) *brain fog, lapses in thought process *the need for more and more Estrogen *streaming cortisol and all symptoms of constant cortisol release *moon face *inability to sleep at night, but exhausted during the days *unusual cravings for salt,sugar, starch *runaway appetite * a gamey smell to our sweat *some women got the black line down their bellies, like a pregnancy line (I forgot what it is called - linea negra, maybe) I will post these again and others as I think of them....some look like excess cortisol, some could look like any endocrine imbalance...for the first time ever i have become insulin reistant, and I have always been insulin senstive..I thought I was becoming diabetic but my fasting BG is running around 90-100 - pretty high for me...these are things to watch out for. it's entirely possible that we on the WP have overloaded ourselves more than the average woman using P -but asI said, the changes happen on a subtle level and go without notice or without relating them to the P if you've always done well on it before...as Uzzi Reiss said - some women do very well on high P - I USED to be one of them!! One other thing...with the use of very high estrogen, many of us have become hypothyroid...I was on 4 grains Armour for many years now and had perfect results with the 4 grains, but began to have hypo symptoms ( feeling cold in summer, constipation, weight gain etc). In tests, my TSH was 1.7 (it has been completely suppressed for years) and FT3 and FT4 levels were low to mid-range...too high estrogen competes with the thryoid hormone and blocks it somewhat. > > I would like to hear the list of Symptons for WP. > > I have not really seen anyone discuss on what they went through, other than HELL! > What Happened to you on WP? > Reason for my question is I am on WP feeling okay,(I think?) when did it all go badly, what were the signs? > > Maybe I missed the chat about it???? > > Again thanks to all you ladies for sharing and educating us to ask question about our bodies! > > Cheers > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thank you for this, ! Did your insulin resistance change once you stopped the P? I have had IR for several years now post WP. I am not fat nor do I eat sugar or a ton of carbs. I have some of your below symptoms now but my E & P are both low. My P never got high on the WP BUT I know I was having symptoms. One of mine was GB pain, that started about 3 months into the protocol. The only time it went away was on the high E phase. I ended up getting my GB out and now I’m in even more misery. I hope you’re doing good now! Symptoms on the WP for me were Depression Anxiety GB Spasm pain Headaches Low blood sugar After a year on the protocol, my cortisol was sky high and I ended up with EXTREME anxiety. EXTREME! I didn’t have a uterus so I could not gauge cycles really. Liz Hi ~ I am going to repost something I posted here back in March 2007 about my experience with WP: I am going to post symptoms of too much P....there is a lot being said on the RL group about the effects of too much P and how excess stays in the fat and causes problems. Many of us on the Wiley Protocol (and me, who just went on it for 10 days, but was loading P since last Oct, trying to trigger " apoptosis " to prevent uterine cancer - what a lame brain...) who did these huge doses of P for months (usually 6 months or more) have found that they are not doing well....the cure for too much P building up in you is to stop it for a while. Maybe those of us here who have been on lower doses have not encountered any of these symptoms, but with me, they came on in a subtle manner and I never related them to too much P, because I had always done well on P and it gave me energy and diuretic action. A few of the symptoms,such as belly fat or thickening waist can happen with too much of a lot of the hormones, such as DHEA, cortisol, even estrogen, I guess, but seemed to occur for the first time while OD-ing on transdermal P.... I am going to list the symptoms...I have ALL of them and have gone off the P this month and for who knows how long: *excessive thirst *insulin resistance *signs of dehydration but at the same time, edema or fluid retention *constipation *chapped lips *excessively dry, itchy or flaky skin *rashes, hives, excema *unusual break outs, acne *fuzzy face, facial hair, whiskers *belly fat, or thickening waistline *weight gain *kidney stones, kidney pain *pain in neck *pain in connective tissue, joints *headaches upon waking or during the day (which are not usual) *brain fog, lapses in thought process *the need for more and more Estrogen *streaming cortisol and all symptoms of constant cortisol release *moon face *inability to sleep at night, but exhausted during the days *unusual cravings for salt,sugar, starch *runaway appetite * a gamey smell to our sweat *some women got the black line down their bellies, like a pregnancy line (I forgot what it is called - linea negra, maybe) I will post these again and others as I think of them....some look like excess cortisol, some could look like any endocrine imbalance...for the first time ever i have become insulin reistant, and I have always been insulin senstive..I thought I was becoming diabetic but my fasting BG is running around 90-100 - pretty high for me...these are things to watch out for. it's entirely possible that we on the WP have overloaded ourselves more than the average woman using P -but asI said, the changes happen on a subtle level and go without notice or without relating them to the P if you've always done well on it before...as Uzzi Reiss said - some women do very well on high P - I USED to be one of them!! One other thing...with the use of very high estrogen, many of us have become hypothyroid...I was on 4 grains Armour for many years now and had perfect results with the 4 grains, but began to have hypo symptoms ( feeling cold in summer, constipation, weight gain etc). In tests, my TSH was 1.7 (it has been completely suppressed for years) and FT3 and FT4 levels were low to mid-range...too high estrogen competes with the thryoid hormone and blocks it somewhat. > > I would like to hear the list of Symptons for WP. > > I have not really seen anyone discuss on what they went through, other than HELL! > What Happened to you on WP? > Reason for my question is I am on WP feeling okay,(I think?) when did it all go badly, what were the signs? > > Maybe I missed the chat about it???? > > Again thanks to all you ladies for sharing and educating us to ask question about our bodies! > > Cheers > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2011 Report Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hi Liz I am doing very well hormonally now. But I had to stay off of P for over three years. I use a dab of Oesterogel or sublingual estradiol drops and only use 6.25 P per drop sublingually - one drop only - daily or a few times a week. I am supposed to use 5 drops BID but over-P symptoms return quickly, beginning with dry flaky skin and dehydration. I can use T instead of E and feel the same. The insulin resistance I developed disappeared quickly after I stopped using P. I have always been very sensitive to insulin and had hyperinsulilinism for many years...I am once again insulin sensitive, and get reactive hypglycemia easily, so I steer clear of sugars and starches for the most part. My adrenals are not strong so now and then I use cortef when I need to. I have been under tremendous stress for a couple of years now. If my life and the lives of people close me straighten out, I will be okay. Plus my CFS (mycoplasma & Cpn infections) are back after full -out health and energy for nearly the last 7 years...so I am back on an anti-chlamydia and anti-mycolplasma protocol again. Interesting about a stealth infection...unexplained high or low P, high or low iron/B12/folate OR an unusually high need to supplement any of the hormones (including cortisol, thyroid and the sex hormones) can be a symptom of a stealth infection. (called stealth infections because they fly under the radar and don't show up in routine blood tests - we must be looking for the specific organisms to find them) Where these infections are present our cells are rendered unable to utilize effectively any hormones were are producing, if at all. So we find we must supplement to the hilt to get any homonal help at all. But hormonally, I cannot complain. I go by how I feel and not as much by hormone levels. My last few tests showed by high P still and so I gave up on testing....I can only take none and hope it all goes down. I found the Diagnostechs saliva testing results to be insane (all were WAY off the charts despite not having used any T or P for several years) and therefore felt they were not accurate!! > >> > > >> > I would like to hear the list of Symptons for WP. > >> > > >> > I have not really seen anyone discuss on what they went through, other than > >> HELL! > >> > What Happened to you on WP? > >> > Reason for my question is I am on WP feeling okay,(I think?) when did it > >> all go badly, what were the signs? > >> > > >> > Maybe I missed the chat about it???? > >> > > >> > Again thanks to all you ladies for sharing and educating us to ask question > >> about our bodies! > >> > > >> > Cheers > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2011 Report Share Posted October 11, 2011 , For ME..when I started the WP, 1st 2 wks of E I had headaches and sore breasts and swelling..2nd 2 wks with P added, I gained weight in my abdomen, craved carbs, cried, could NOT sleep, had anxiety, basically wanted out of my own skin!! I stopped the WP for a few mos, went back to low-dose static E-gel and prometrium(oral P)and did feel better for a few mos. HF started again, so I tried the WP with only a couple lines of WP P. I had OK results for the 1st month of that..then other issues(HF, NO sex drive, bitchy, leg and toe cramps, weight gain again, crying, etc). Had my blood levels checked(I personally do not believe in saliva tests)and my FSH was high, E low, P low(Incredible to me I thought it would be high)T was OK. I went up a lot with my E, started on oral P, and my FSH went down below 10, my E was at 550 pg/ML, P was around 12 on day 21. Once my E was high enough, I felt better, had a normal bleed(5-6 days)and NO bad symptoms as mentioned in the beginning. Obviously once my E was high enough for ME..my body could tolerate the oral P, and my body responded well. I am a "high-Estrogen" women..not all are and only need lower doses of E. You cannot utilize P without enough E. Once E receptors are awake, they wake up the P receptors. The high doses of P caused everybody to go through their own Hell. Hope this helps?TerriTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:00 AMSubject: WP symptons??? I would like to hear the list of Symptons for WP. I have not really seen anyone discuss on what they went through, other than HELL! What Happened to you on WP? Reason for my question is I am on WP feeling okay,(I think?) when did it all go badly, what were the signs? Maybe I missed the chat about it???? Again thanks to all you ladies for sharing and educating us to ask question about our bodies! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 I think the main thing we need to keep in mind is that our perfect solution today may be far from perfect 5 years from now. I am ten years older than Terri. MANY woman very early in menopuase (12 months without a bleed) do feel good..what we don't realize and aren't usually told is that the further into menopause you get, the more you begin to have problems with hormones and the lack thereof. Uzzin Reiss alludes to this in his book. It is not a static solution...we change and so do our requirements to maintain a feeling of homeostasis and good health. At 52-56, I felt great hormonally and my foray into the WP sent me into and estrogen peak and then some months of not so great-ness, but I still did okay. I made it into and thru menopause without anything but DHEA (which I was already on) and topical progesterone. I had been on the pill for the better part of 35 years and then went straight to topical P. Was on that for about 6 years. I loved how I felt on 3% P...was dancing in the streets on 10% for several years. At some point when I had night sweats - at about 14 months eithout a period and vaginal dryness and a few hot flashes, I went to oral Tri-est. I asked for oral because I didn't want to be slathering more cream and wanted a controlled exact dose and nothing mixed with my P. I did good. My sex drive never waned (and still has not). when I found out oral was no good, I switched to bi-est cream. Then WP came along and I began using high doses of E & transdermal P - the doses WP used, until I finally wore my Dr. Down to prescribing the WP from the compounder they suggested. The high P finally got to me. I got off the P entirely ( testing every year and still finding it too high to take any)and continued to use probably 6-8 mgs estrogel daily for several months until I began spotting. Got to the root of my spotting (another long story and lots of biopsies and tests) and then, slowly, over the last few years have reduced my dose of E to where I feel good. Remember - there does not have to be a few cancer cells for high doses of E to help you develop cancer....all you need is an over proliferation of endometrial cells which continues for a long time...this becomes pre-cancerous. This is why they measure the endometrial stripe. My sister recently devloped endometrial cancer. She has never taken a hormone. I suspect she has always had a P deficiency and had trouble since her first period. She is heavily, heavily estrogen Dom. She refused to look into hormones at all, even during menopause. She is 76 and lost her husband last Jan. Began spotting while she and I took care of him at home for several months before his death. Sept 12th had a complete hysterectomy. They went in to do a laproscopic surgery and she ended up with the traditional surgery, they took everything. They also had several surgical residents in the surgery, who explored and moved all her insides around with the scopes and the camera while they waited for the surgeon to arrive, called in to do the tradional hyst when they saw the size of her uterus. Both washes were clean of cancer cells and 5 lymph nodes were taken and all are clean. We are in a mess here..they tell you nothing and she refuses to go to my holistic hormones doc. She has become incontinent, no idea that at one month post op she would still be such an invalid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 And remember that when someone is using ultra high dosing and even transdermal, the standard assays (serum, even saliva) are unlikely to be accurate as to the overall situation. Bent Formby basically said the following when I was zooming high on P and yet my blood test was rock bottom, if you were a lab animal we would do a biopsies into the organs and various tissues. A molecular biologist buddy of mine said that when the hormones reach a threshold amount then all kinds of reactions take place.... paraphrasing him. Both guys are molecular biologists and they both have a hard time addressing such high doses, it's too crazy to fathom, they keep wondering how many women died, it's distracting. High doses, trandermal P = not a good candidate for a normal serum test. Laurel, For ME..when I started the WP, 1st 2 wks of E I had headaches and sore breasts and swelling..2nd 2 wks with P added, I gained weight in my abdomen, craved carbs, cried, could NOT sleep, had anxiety, basically wanted out of my own skin!! I stopped the WP for a few mos, went back to low-dose static E-gel and prometrium(oral P)and did feel better for a few mos. HF started again, so I tried the WP with only a couple lines of WP P. I had OK results for the 1st month of that..then other issues(HF, NO sex drive, bitchy, leg and toe cramps, weight gain again, crying, etc). Had my blood levels checked(I personally do not believe in saliva tests)and my FSH was high, E low, P low(Incredible to me I thought it would be high)T was OK. I went up a lot with my E, started on oral P, and my FSH went down below 10, my E was at 550 pg/ML, P was around 12 on day 21. Once my E was high enough, I felt better, had a normal bleed(5-6 days)and NO bad symptoms as mentioned in the beginning. Obviously once my E was high enough for ME..my body could tolerate the oral P, and my body responded well. I am a "high-Estrogen" women..not all are and only need lower doses of E. You cannot utilize P without enough E. Once E receptors are awake, they wake up the P receptors. The high doses of P caused everybody to go through their own Hell. Hope this helps?TerriTo: rhythmicliving Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 11:00 AMSubject: WP symptons???I would like to hear the list of Symptons for WP.I have not really seen anyone discuss on what they went through, other than HELL! What Happened to you on WP?Reason for my question is I am on WP feeling okay,(I think?) when did it all go badly, what were the signs?Maybe I missed the chat about it????Again thanks to all you ladies for sharing and educating us to ask question about our bodies!Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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