Re: PLEASE HELP!!!! so sick

[Guest guest]

Nanci, progesterone is unduly excreted in saliva, even as it may not be

reaching the uterus. Good research does not support saliva testing for P

and E. I don't know what else to tell you. You sound a bit like me, but I

have Lyme disease. I am improving with treatment for Lyme and

co-infections. Is there any possibility you could have encountered a tick?

Lyme can lie dormant for days, weeks, months or years before it does its

dirty work.

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of ndomarew21756

I am 55 yrs old. haven't had a period since 2007.

this past October I lost my smell and taste after

getting over a cold and it wasn't coming back, the

condition is called anosmia. I freaked out and went

into severe anxiety mode. I tried everything to

alleviate it. I guess the anxiety took its toll on me.

I went to shrinks and tried Anti-depressants but

one didn't help and the other made me so sick,

I could even take a shower. An old friend told me

about this Wiley Protocol using bioidentical hormones

and went on it, they use massive doses of estradiol

and progesterone, witht the philosohphy of bringing

a woman back to her 20's and getting her periods

again. I didn't like that part. I was on it for about

7 weeks and it made me sicker. I stopped it cold turkey.

The anxiety and stress continued, I started to get my

smell back some by then, although I wasn't even thinking

of that anymore.

I never tapered the hormones and that was probably a big mistake but they

were making me so sick and I continue to be so sick now after off of them

for about a month. My gyno gave me some other creams with 2 clicks of

estradiol and progesterone pill with pregnenoone which I did for about a

week. No improvements, continued to be sick...then he reduced the dose and

changed me to progesterone cream with no pregnenolone. continued not feeling

well, and as of 5 days ago, I have taken nothing. I have never been so sick

like this and if my progesterone levels were so elevated on the saliva tests

along with the estradiol, why coninue taking them. something is making them

high. did the WP screw up my levels? did they affect my thyroid (high

reverse T3) high cortisol, high serum DHEAS, high testosterone on blood

tests, but normal DHEA and testosterone on saliva. I wish I never started

these creams. Now what do I do?

Now the you know what hit the fan......my blood

pressure started to skyrocket, my pulse was fast,

palpitations started (I currently take and have been

on a beta blocker for over 20 yrs) My head felt like it

was going to expode, I was shaking, jittery, nervous,

had the runs all day, all the classic symptoms of severe

anxiety, but I didn't have anything to be so anxious

over. did the anxiety that started in October when

I lost my smell take over and won't let go?

or is it something else causing this?

I went to another gyno and he knew his stuff.

I had, had many blood tests taken showing low estrogens

and progesterone levels, low prolactin, low FSH,

low Vitamin D, high calcium, high DHEAS and

testosterone, and this one endo told me I had

the classic signs of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)

but how??? I am in menopause, never had a fertility

issue or any know cysts on my ovaries, although hadn't

had a scan recently. 2 other gynos disagreed with her

and said impossible. Recent saliva tests now show,

very high progesterone and estrogen levels, off the

chart levels, normal DHEA and testosterone but very

high cortisol levels in the PM, and normal levels

in the AM. all classic signs of the start of adrenal

fatigue. I also have a very high reverse T3 level.

I wake up every morning shaky, jittery, anxious where

it won't leave no matter what I do. everything bothers me,

I can't cry, wish I could, haven't laughed in so long,

I can't remember. my head is exploding, my heart

is pounding and skipping all the time. I am taking

holy basil as prescribed by gyno and he wants me to

continue the creams although I can't understand why

since my levels are so high.

I spoke with a doctor, a naturopath who told me that high levels of

progesterone

can actually make you sick and have the reverse affects

of levels in balance and as long as your adrenals and thryoid

are messed up, the P/E levels wil remain high and

won't give you the beneits. makes sense???

If my cortisol levels according to saliva tests are normal in the AM, why do

I wake up so jittery with high anxiety. according to the saliva tests, they

are high in the evening and PM. The serum test results were so very

different than the saliva results. I can post them in another message.

I am a real mess, can't function, just have no health

to do anything at all. I can't even shower or take

care of myself without help. So far nothing is working.

I take an occasional valium and even that doesn't work.

I don't sleep and have no appetite, have lost tons of

weight and feel like i am going to die.

I had cancer 2 yrs ago and that weighs heavily on me

since NHL [non-hodgkins lymphoma] can come back.

I have a severe neck condition

that prevents me from driving or working. I sit in this

house wanting to cry and can't to release some stresses.

I made an appt with an internist who specializes in

endocrinology but that is not until June unless there

is a cancellation.

I stopped the creams and are only taking the holy basil

and some vitamins. I can't keep starting and stopping

the creams which will make the levels flucuate

even more. I don't know what to do, the more I worry,

the more my cortisol levels go higher. I can't feel

worse than I already do. I feel like I am going to die.

something is seriously wrong with me.

Thanks so much for listening....I know I wrote a

book here. I also realize you are not doctors and

can't give medical advice.

Take care

Regards,

Nanci

[Guest guest]

Do you have recent thyroid/adrenal labs?

Specifically Free T3, Free T4, and saliva cortisols?

How about iron panel with ferritin?

You said you had issues with high RT3. This generally means there are issues

with adrenals and/or ferritin. RT3 is what the body normally turns excess t4

into so it can safely exit the body.

The WP is over-dose levels of estradiol/progesterone.

In some, excess progesterone can really cause problems, especially with

adrenals. If thyroid/adrenal issues are unaddressed beforehand, WP can knock ya

on your butt. By the way, thyroid/adrenal issues can be 2 of the many causes of

loss of the sense of smell.

Here's some info for you:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/faq/

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ferritin

And, just in case:

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned/

If you go to the group website, you can follow the progress of (aka

wild.dingo) as she got off the WP and addressed adrenals, et al.

Start with message #20342 (Laurel June 30, 2010). 's first post to the

group is message #15692 (Dec 1, 2007).

I'm pretty familiar with the " I feel like I am going to die " thing, which is an

adrenal 'symptom' for 'me'.

Sam

(great granny of a yearling)

>

> I am 55 yrs old. haven't had a period since 2007.

> this past October I lost my smell and taste after

> getting over a cold and it wasn't coming back, the

> condition is called anosmia. I freaked out and went

> into severe anxiety mode. I tried everything to

> alleviate it. I guess the anxiety took its toll on me.

> I went to shrinks and tried Anti-depressants but

> one didn't help and the other made me so sick,

> I could even take a shower. An old friend told me

> about this Wiley Protocol using bioidentical hormones

> and went on it, they use massive doses of estradiol

> and progesterone, witht the philosohphy of bringing

> a woman back to her 20's and getting her periods

> again. I didn't like that part. I was on it for about

> 7 weeks and it made me sicker. I stopped it cold turkey.

> The anxiety and stress continued, I started to get my

> smell back some by then, although I wasn't even thinking

> of that anymore.

>

> I never tapered the hormones and that was probably a big mistake but they were

making me so sick and I continue to be so sick now after off of them for about a

month. My gyno gave me some other creams with 2 clicks of estradiol and

progesterone pill with pregnenoone which I did for about a week. No

improvements, continued to be sick...then he reduced the dose and changed me to

progesterone cream with no pregnenolone. continued not feeling well, and as of 5

days ago, I have taken nothing. I have never been so sick like this and if my

progesterone levels were so elevated on the saliva tests along with the

estradiol, why coninue taking them. something is making them high. did the WP

screw up my levels? did they affect my thyroid (high reverse T3) high cortisol,

high serum DHEAS, high testosterone on blood tests, but normal DHEA and

testosterone on saliva. I wish I never started these creams. Now what do I do?

>

> Now the you know what hit the fan......my blood

> pressure started to skyrocket, my pulse was fast,

> palpitations started (I currently take and have been

> on a beta blocker for over 20 yrs) My head felt like it

> was going to expode, I was shaking, jittery, nervous,

> had the runs all day, all the classic symptoms of severe

> anxiety, but I didn't have anything to be so anxious

> over. did the anxiety that started in October when

> I lost my smell take over and won't let go?

> or is it something else causing this?

>

> I went to another gyno and he knew his stuff.

> I had, had many blood tests taken showing low estrogens

> and progesterone levels, low prolactin, low FSH,

> low Vitamin D, high calcium, high DHEAS and

> testosterone, and this one endo told me I had

> the classic signs of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)

> but how??? I am in menopause, never had a fertility

> issue or any know cysts on my ovaries, although hadn't

> had a scan recently. 2 other gynos disagreed with her

> and said impossible. Recent saliva tests now show,

> very high progesterone and estrogen levels, off the

> chart levels, normal DHEA and testosterone but very

> high cortisol levels in the PM, and normal levels

> in the AM. all classic signs of the start of adrenal

> fatigue. I also have a very high reverse T3 level.

> I wake up every morning shaky, jittery, anxious where

> it won't leave no matter what I do. everything bothers me,

> I can't cry, wish I could, haven't laughed in so long,

> I can't remember. my head is exploding, my heart

> is pounding and skipping all the time. I am taking

> holy basil as prescribed by gyno and he wants me to

> continue the creams although I can't understand why

> since my levels are so high.

>

> I spoke with a doctor, a naturopath who told me that high levels of

progesterone

> can actually make you sick and have the reverse affects

> of levels in balance and as long as your adrenals and thryoid

> are messed up, the P/E levels wil remain high and

> won't give you the beneits. makes sense???

>

>

>

> If my cortisol levels according to saliva tests are normal in the AM, why do I

wake up so jittery with high anxiety. according to the saliva tests, they are

high in the evening and PM. The serum test results were so very different than

the saliva results. I can post them in another message.

>

> I am a real mess, can't function, just have no health

> to do anything at all. I can't even shower or take

> care of myself without help. So far nothing is working.

> I take an occasional valium and even that doesn't work.

> I don't sleep and have no appetite, have lost tons of

> weight and feel like i am going to die.

>

> I had cancer 2 yrs ago and that weighs heavily on me

> since NHL [non-hodgkins lymphoma] can come back.

> I have a severe neck condition

> that prevents me from driving or working. I sit in this

> house wanting to cry and can't to release some stresses.

>

> I made an appt with an internist who specializes in

> endocrinology but that is not until June unless there

> is a cancellation.

>

> I stopped the creams and are only taking the holy basil

> and some vitamins. I can't keep starting and stopping

> the creams which will make the levels flucuate

> even more. I don't know what to do, the more I worry,

> the more my cortisol levels go higher. I can't feel

> worse than I already do. I feel like I am going to die.

> something is seriously wrong with me.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I am going to post my serum results and saliva results as an addendum to my first post. it is hard to write them all down. I have results from December 2010 (serum) and April 2011 (serum) and May 2011 (saliva) It was suggested that I post my results so the group can see it. I am also posting it to the Adrenal group.

No Ferritin, Iron levels were taken.

The December levels were taken before I applied any bioidentical hormones. April serum and May saliva were taken after I was on the Wiley Protocol of high doses of Progesterone/Estradiol for 7 weeks and then stopped a day before April serum was drawn again and about 2 weeks after stopping all hormones. Then a new gyno put me on much lower doses of progesterone with pregnenolone at night and estradiol 2 times a day. If sounds confusing, it is, I don’t understand it either.

Here goes...

December 2010 (before hormones)

DHEAS 321 (High) range- 15-170

Estradiol 62 (ranges are from follicular to post menopause) < 212 (follicular) to >32 post menopause)

FSH, LH, Prolactin were all in the post menopausal range

Free T4 1.16 range- 0.78- 2.19

Testosterone 49- range 2-45

HGBA1C- 5.8%

Free Testosterone-6.9 (high) range 0.1-6.4

TSH- 0.920 range- 0.470-4.680

Vitamin D- 27 (LOW)

PTH- 47 range- 10-65

slightly elevated WBC at 11.6 range-3.5-11.0

hemoglobin and hematocrit were high too, I have thick blood and it was recommended I do a reverse phlebotomy (which I haven’t feeling well enough to do yet)

Calcium was high too

This endo was a jerk and told me I had results that were consistent with PCOS (but I am in menopause and 3 gynos told me that was impossible. I still don’t know for sure.

April 2011 (after taking high doses of progesterone/estradiol on the Wiley Protocol for 7 weeks)

A more competent gyno ordered these tests which should have been taken in December via the endo but was not. So some are here that weren’t included in December

T3 (free) 2.9 –range 2.3-4.2

T3 (reverse) 39% (HIGH) range- 11-32

Testosterone(Total) LC,MS- 62 (HIGH) range- 2-45

Thyroid Peroxidase <10 range- <35

TSH 2.660 range- 0.470-4.680

Estradiol- 34.73 range- menopausal

DHEAS 210 (HIGH) range- 15-170

Erythropoietin 21.3 (HIGH) range- 4.1- 19.5

Free T4 1.10 range- 0.78-2.19

Progesterone- 0.5 (never tested in December, before using BRHT) range >0.5 equals post menopause, all other levels were indicative of follicular, pregnancy or luteal.

Vitamin D or Calcium were not drawn.

Hemoglobin and Hematocrit were still high but dropped a bit as did WBC

May 3 2011 (saliva test performed by ZRT Labs)

Estradiol 11.3 (HIGH) range for post menopausal-optimal- 1.3-1.7

Progesterone- 1395 (very HIGH) range for Post menopausal- 12-100 (you can see just how ridiculously HIGH I am after taking massive doses of creams via the Wiley Protocol for 7 weeks)

Ratio Pg/E2 (saliva) 123 optimal range- 100-500 when E2 1.3-3.3 pg/ml

Testosterone 52 (age dependent) range- 16-55

DHEAS (saliva) 10.9 (age dependent) range-2-23

Cortisol Morning (saliva) 5.9 ng/ml range- 3.7-9.5

Cortisol Noon (saliva) 2.2 ng/ml range- 1.2- 3.0

Cortisol Evening (saliva) 5.7 ng.ml (HIGH) range- 0.6-1.9

Cortisol Night (saliva) 1.2 (HIGH) range- 0.4-1.0 ng.ml

Some results were ng/ml and some are evaluated with pg. I have no idea what that means and the differences.

I was started on much lower doses of P/E via a more competent gyno but if my P and E levels are so high, that has to affect the cortisol, adrenals, and thyroid levels. I have since stopped all creams. I currently take a Multi Vitamin via Dr. Mercola which has selenium in it as well as zinc (read selenium can increase cortisol levels) It has 2000 IU of Vitamin D in it. I take Holy Basil in AM and PM, COQ-10 for heart palpitations, Omega 3 Fish Oil, magnesium Taurate for B/P. I take 50mg of Atenolol in the mornings (beta blocker) which I have taken for about 20 yrs. During the winter months before taking anything, I was taking L’theanine, GABA, magnesium (the one that helps with muscle pains, forgot the name) R-ALA. I took for 3 weeks in December Buspar which didn’t touch the anxiety, then tried for 10 days, Lexapro 15mg which made me terribly sick, all via a shrink who thought I was mentally ill. I stopped all Anti-depressants and went on Gabapentin (Neurontin) for a couple of months at low doses (have since stopped that over 2 months ago) take an occasional valium at 2.5mg here and there (but it doesn’t touch my anxiety)

Even though my cortisol level are normal in the AM, I wake up to the same anxiety, jitters, nervousness and shakes and they last all day long without stopping. it is un-relentless and I am miserable. no matter what I do, I can’t calm down, and can’t get a restorative sleep, always waking up and can’t get back to sleep. it has affected my heart, stomach with diarrhea and a nervous gnawing, growling stomach. I feel like I am having a heart attack or stroke. My heart doesn’t stop skipping all day.

Tomorrow I see an internist who specializes in endocrinology, but can you believe I feel so sick and am afraid to leave my house to see her. she is over 2 hours away from me and I had to ask my son to miss work to take me. What a mess.....and the worst part is that no one in my family believes me or understands what I am going through. I feel so alone in all this misery.

am I mentally ill or is there something going on? I should be this severely anxious as I have nothing really upsetting me except my health and the unknown (what it could be, as I am always thinking the worse and no one will be able to help me or get to the bottom of this. I have seen so many doctors and not one has been able to figure this out.

I heard that high progesterone levels can wreck havoc with the adrenals and being under such stress, I heard it can be adrenal fatigue. but adrenal fatigue with such high cortisol levels, I don’t get that part.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.....I would appreciate any suggestions, help, advice you can offer.

Take care

Nanci

[Guest guest]

Hi

The first time I lost my smell and taste was in 2004 and took only oral Zicam,

not the kind you put up your nose. I eventually got it back, but it took some

time and to cope had to go on xanax. thankfully that nightmare is long over. The

last cold I had was this past October and never took anything....The anxiety

started again as it reminded me of the horrible time I had in 2004. I have

regained my smell (not as strong as before) and can taste again, so this is not

the issue anymore. Something else is seriously going on, unrelated to anosmia.

Thank you so much for your input.....

Nanci

> > >

> > > I am 55 yrs old. haven't had a period since 2007.

> > > this past October I lost my smell and taste after

> > > getting over a cold and it wasn't coming back, the

> > > condition is called anosmia. I freaked out and went

> > > into severe anxiety mode. I tried everything to

> > > alleviate it. I guess the anxiety took its toll on me.

> > > I went to shrinks and tried Anti-depressants but

> > > one didn't help and the other made me so sick,

> > > I could even take a shower. An old friend told me

> > > about this Wiley Protocol using bioidentical hormones

> > > and went on it, they use massive doses of estradiol

> > > and progesterone, witht the philosohphy of bringing

> > > a woman back to her 20's and getting her periods

> > > again. I didn't like that part. I was on it for about

> > > 7 weeks and it made me sicker. I stopped it cold turkey.

> > > The anxiety and stress continued, I started to get my

> > > smell back some by then, although I wasn't even thinking

> > > of that anymore.

> > >

> > > I never tapered the hormones and that was probably a big mistake but they

were making me so sick and I continue to be so sick now after off of them for

about a month. My gyno gave me some other creams with 2 clicks of estradiol and

progesterone pill with pregnenoone which I did for about a week. No

improvements, continued to be sick...then he reduced the dose and changed me to

progesterone cream with no pregnenolone. continued not feeling well, and as of 5

days ago, I have taken nothing. I have never been so sick like this and if my

progesterone levels were so elevated on the saliva tests along with the

estradiol, why coninue taking them. something is making them high. did the WP

screw up my levels? did they affect my thyroid (high reverse T3) high cortisol,

high serum DHEAS, high testosterone on blood tests, but normal DHEA and

testosterone on saliva. I wish I never started these creams. Now what do I do?

> > >

> > > Now the you know what hit the fan......my blood

> > > pressure started to skyrocket, my pulse was fast,

> > > palpitations started (I currently take and have been

> > > on a beta blocker for over 20 yrs) My head felt like it

> > > was going to expode, I was shaking, jittery, nervous,

> > > had the runs all day, all the classic symptoms of severe

> > > anxiety, but I didn't have anything to be so anxious

> > > over. did the anxiety that started in October when

> > > I lost my smell take over and won't let go?

> > > or is it something else causing this?

> > >

> > > I went to another gyno and he knew his stuff.

> > > I had, had many blood tests taken showing low estrogens

> > > and progesterone levels, low prolactin, low FSH,

> > > low Vitamin D, high calcium, high DHEAS and

> > > testosterone, and this one endo told me I had

> > > the classic signs of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)

> > > but how??? I am in menopause, never had a fertility

> > > issue or any know cysts on my ovaries, although hadn't

> > > had a scan recently. 2 other gynos disagreed with her

> > > and said impossible. Recent saliva tests now show,

> > > very high progesterone and estrogen levels, off the

> > > chart levels, normal DHEA and testosterone but very

> > > high cortisol levels in the PM, and normal levels

> > > in the AM. all classic signs of the start of adrenal

> > > fatigue. I also have a very high reverse T3 level.

> > > I wake up every morning shaky, jittery, anxious where

> > > it won't leave no matter what I do. everything bothers me,

> > > I can't cry, wish I could, haven't laughed in so long,

> > > I can't remember. my head is exploding, my heart

> > > is pounding and skipping all the time. I am taking

> > > holy basil as prescribed by gyno and he wants me to

> > > continue the creams although I can't understand why

> > > since my levels are so high.

> > >

> > > I spoke with a doctor, a naturopath who told me that high levels of

progesterone

> > > can actually make you sick and have the reverse affects

> > > of levels in balance and as long as your adrenals and thryoid

> > > are messed up, the P/E levels wil remain high and

> > > won't give you the beneits. makes sense???

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > If my cortisol levels according to saliva tests are normal in the AM, why

do I wake up so jittery with high anxiety. according to the saliva tests, they

are high in the evening and PM. The serum test results were so very different

than the saliva results. I can post them in another message.

> > >

> > > I am a real mess, can't function, just have no health

> > > to do anything at all. I can't even shower or take

> > > care of myself without help. So far nothing is working.

> > > I take an occasional valium and even that doesn't work.

> > > I don't sleep and have no appetite, have lost tons of

> > > weight and feel like i am going to die.

> > >

> > > I had cancer 2 yrs ago and that weighs heavily on me

> > > since NHL [non-hodgkins lymphoma] can come back.

> > > I have a severe neck condition

> > > that prevents me from driving or working. I sit in this

> > > house wanting to cry and can't to release some stresses.

> > >

> > > I made an appt with an internist who specializes in

> > > endocrinology but that is not until June unless there

> > > is a cancellation.

> > >

> > > I stopped the creams and are only taking the holy basil

> > > and some vitamins. I can't keep starting and stopping

> > > the creams which will make the levels flucuate

> > > even more. I don't know what to do, the more I worry,

> > > the more my cortisol levels go higher. I can't feel

> > > worse than I already do. I feel like I am going to die.

> > > something is seriously wrong with me.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I actually saw Vliet..will be happy to share my experience..email me privately.

Angie

>

>

>

> Hi Nanci,

>

> There's a fantastic hormone specialist called Dr Vliet. She's in

Tucson, Az. She also offers a second opinion service over the phone. Details on

her website www.herplace.com. You'll find hours of her free radio talks on her

site as well. She's expensive, but she has decades of experience treating very

complex female hormonal problems, including those caused by incorrect

prescribing of other doctors.

>

> Regards,

>

> Vicki.

[Guest guest]

Sorry You are feeling so badly..you sound like I was in early 2004..I was

hyPERthyroid, high cortisol, high androgens and I was not on Wiley..In fact, my

daily dose of oral P was rather low (20 mg)..

High Reverse T3 can also be an indicator of frank hyPERthyroidism..which I also

had..A smart ENT looked at TOTAL AND Reverse T3..TSH..and TSI antibodies. My

total T3 was elevated at 223 (upper end of range 180)..If I had looked at frees

only, I would have been deemed " normal " ..

There are very complex interrelationships among hormones and the immune system.

Excess progesterone (read Uzzi Reiss.. McK Jefferies) can block the

body's ability to deactivate cortisol by blocking an enzyme called 11B

hydroxylase..This can look like late onset hyperplasia or PCOS with high

androgens..as well as high cortisol..This was confirmed in my case through

urinaries done through Meridian Vallley..

In addition..melatonin will also rise when estrogen is too high..this can cause

excess T3 and the jittery (worse in the a.m. for me) feelings you are

describing..I know them well.

P for me started my Graves issues..I had been a Hashi's/HyPO pt for years..now,

I vacillate..In addition, the swings of peri didn't help..

You sound like a Graves pt to me..the " runs " are typical..I would somehow get a

doc to do TSI antibodies..frees..TSH..AND TOTAL T3..

Angie

> > > >

> > > > I am 55 yrs old. haven't had a period since 2007.

> > > > this past October I lost my smell and taste after

> > > > getting over a cold and it wasn't coming back, the

> > > > condition is called anosmia. I freaked out and went

> > > > into severe anxiety mode. I tried everything to

> > > > alleviate it. I guess the anxiety took its toll on me.

> > > > I went to shrinks and tried Anti-depressants but

> > > > one didn't help and the other made me so sick,

> > > > I could even take a shower. An old friend told me

> > > > about this Wiley Protocol using bioidentical hormones

> > > > and went on it, they use massive doses of estradiol

> > > > and progesterone, witht the philosohphy of bringing

> > > > a woman back to her 20's and getting her periods

> > > > again. I didn't like that part. I was on it for about

> > > > 7 weeks and it made me sicker. I stopped it cold turkey.

> > > > The anxiety and stress continued, I started to get my

> > > > smell back some by then, although I wasn't even thinking

> > > > of that anymore.

> > > >

> > > > I never tapered the hormones and that was probably a big mistake but

they were making me so sick and I continue to be so sick now after off of them

for about a month. My gyno gave me some other creams with 2 clicks of estradiol

and progesterone pill with pregnenoone which I did for about a week. No

improvements, continued to be sick...then he reduced the dose and changed me to

progesterone cream with no pregnenolone. continued not feeling well, and as of 5

days ago, I have taken nothing. I have never been so sick like this and if my

progesterone levels were so elevated on the saliva tests along with the

estradiol, why coninue taking them. something is making them high. did the WP

screw up my levels? did they affect my thyroid (high reverse T3) high cortisol,

high serum DHEAS, high testosterone on blood tests, but normal DHEA and

testosterone on saliva. I wish I never started these creams. Now what do I do?

> > > >

> > > > Now the you know what hit the fan......my blood

> > > > pressure started to skyrocket, my pulse was fast,

> > > > palpitations started (I currently take and have been

> > > > on a beta blocker for over 20 yrs) My head felt like it

> > > > was going to expode, I was shaking, jittery, nervous,

> > > > had the runs all day, all the classic symptoms of severe

> > > > anxiety, but I didn't have anything to be so anxious

> > > > over. did the anxiety that started in October when

> > > > I lost my smell take over and won't let go?

> > > > or is it something else causing this?

> > > >

> > > > I went to another gyno and he knew his stuff.

> > > > I had, had many blood tests taken showing low estrogens

> > > > and progesterone levels, low prolactin, low FSH,

> > > > low Vitamin D, high calcium, high DHEAS and

> > > > testosterone, and this one endo told me I had

> > > > the classic signs of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)

> > > > but how??? I am in menopause, never had a fertility

> > > > issue or any know cysts on my ovaries, although hadn't

> > > > had a scan recently. 2 other gynos disagreed with her

> > > > and said impossible. Recent saliva tests now show,

> > > > very high progesterone and estrogen levels, off the

> > > > chart levels, normal DHEA and testosterone but very

> > > > high cortisol levels in the PM, and normal levels

> > > > in the AM. all classic signs of the start of adrenal

> > > > fatigue. I also have a very high reverse T3 level.

> > > > I wake up every morning shaky, jittery, anxious where

> > > > it won't leave no matter what I do. everything bothers me,

> > > > I can't cry, wish I could, haven't laughed in so long,

> > > > I can't remember. my head is exploding, my heart

> > > > is pounding and skipping all the time. I am taking

> > > > holy basil as prescribed by gyno and he wants me to

> > > > continue the creams although I can't understand why

> > > > since my levels are so high.

> > > >

> > > > I spoke with a doctor, a naturopath who told me that high levels of

progesterone

> > > > can actually make you sick and have the reverse affects

> > > > of levels in balance and as long as your adrenals and thryoid

> > > > are messed up, the P/E levels wil remain high and

> > > > won't give you the beneits. makes sense???

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If my cortisol levels according to saliva tests are normal in the AM,

why do I wake up so jittery with high anxiety. according to the saliva tests,

they are high in the evening and PM. The serum test results were so very

different than the saliva results. I can post them in another message.

> > > >

> > > > I am a real mess, can't function, just have no health

> > > > to do anything at all. I can't even shower or take

> > > > care of myself without help. So far nothing is working.

> > > > I take an occasional valium and even that doesn't work.

> > > > I don't sleep and have no appetite, have lost tons of

> > > > weight and feel like i am going to die.

> > > >

> > > > I had cancer 2 yrs ago and that weighs heavily on me

> > > > since NHL [non-hodgkins lymphoma] can come back.

> > > > I have a severe neck condition

> > > > that prevents me from driving or working. I sit in this

> > > > house wanting to cry and can't to release some stresses.

> > > >

> > > > I made an appt with an internist who specializes in

> > > > endocrinology but that is not until June unless there

> > > > is a cancellation.

> > > >

> > > > I stopped the creams and are only taking the holy basil

> > > > and some vitamins. I can't keep starting and stopping

> > > > the creams which will make the levels flucuate

> > > > even more. I don't know what to do, the more I worry,

> > > > the more my cortisol levels go higher. I can't feel

> > > > worse than I already do. I feel like I am going to die.

> > > > something is seriously wrong with me.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Ahh... but the DOOZY on top of my story was this post: #17981

Remember that one? how it took 6 Months AFTER stopping the WP (which i only took

for 5.5 months anyway) to have Progesterone show up in TOXIC levels in my test

results? That was the shocking thing of my story and i'm not sure if ANYONE else

out there did what I did, which was test themselves month after month after

stopping the WP to measure their hormones. That just only proved the absolute

idiocracy of the WP and any doctor who prescribes it.

Yes, I drop in now and then on this list. i miss all you ladies. A quick update:

My husband and I moved to Switzerland for 3 years! We found out last year while

I was still having major insomnia issues. I had been off all hormones and on

Klonopin to help sleep. Only it was getting worse. when i found out we were

moving, I decided i needed to go off it. My doctor had said at the time Klonopin

was benign and not addictive. WRONG. again i had fallen into the believing the

doctor trap, just like the WP. going off Klonopin was worse than going off WP

because it can give you paranoia. So i had to ween off it slowly. let me tell

you, going off it mimics the insomnia which makes you think you really need it

more. I just had faith that i had to keep going and push thru the insomnia. i

did nothing for those 6 months (March 2010-July 2010). Other side effects of

Klonopin: severe joint inflamation, which my doctor chocked up to " planter

fasciatis " like i was suppose to have it at 40 years old... hello? I'm not 90,

I'm 40! none of this made sense. going off the Klonopin, was hard, but once i

realized the side effects of withdrawl were isomnia and paranoia, believe me, it

was nothing but a thing to get off it. just sheer will-power.

so here i am a year later in Switzerland. I'm on nothing. not a single hormone

or vitamin. i eat well. I took up cooking and cuisine and pretty much drink wine

at almost every meal and cook with it. I cook mostly Italian and some French.

Now in the summer, I've lightened the cooking load and do a lot more raw meals

just for health and to ease the burden of doing something spectacular every

night... My husband has been loving the meals and we entertain but it's time we

eat like normal people now and then and go for 1 or 2 courses rather than 4 and

a dessert! LOL.

Anyway, in Jan-March, i was sleeping really well. i had a regular yoga practice,

and started to ride my bike 2x week. I'd have a few days now and then of

sleepless nights but most nights i was sleeping 6-9 hours/night AND taking naps

in the day. I also lost a lot of weight even tho we were eating cuisine, cooking

with wine and even eating cheese and cremes (not a lot but for me any dairy is a

lot becuase I don't usually eat dairy). Everything was going well. In April,

May this year, i had an insomnia slip back. And all I can attribute it to is my

body's ability to handle stress, even GOOD stress like exercise. i had tried to

raise my exercise to 3 rides that week and I rode REALLY hard, not so hard that

i couldn't handle it. In fact i was talking the entire time to my husband on

that ride. so my mouth was going as hard as my legs--just to drive my husband

nutty, cuz he thinks i dont work hard enough on my rides. so if i'm talking it

can't be that hard right?

well, it was. anytime I get an endorphine HIGH, from exercise, from happiness,

excitement over some event or party, i go into some sort of adrenal overload and

I can NOT shut down. try as I may, i'll go days and weeks without sleeping. if i

catch it in time, and rest a lot, it reverses and i go back to business as

usual, yoga, dog walking, riding, cooking. if not, i go into weeks of no sleep,

crankiness, can't even listen to music and unable to multi-task, finish a

project or do anything. i'm unable to function.

I have noticed tho if this is happening, it mostly occurs on 2nd half of my

cycle and on day 1 of my period, i sleep like a baby. so if i dont' tax myself

on the 2nd half of my cycle, i do ok. if i do too much physical or mental stress

during 2nd half, boom, major insomnia.

so to me, this is still quite adrenal and sex hormone related. i have an

appointment with an english speaking homeopathic MD here who is well-respected.

i can't get in until sept. i don't know what i'm going to do or if i will take

her advice, but i tell you one thing: no more drugs for me. it's not worth it.

it's easier for me to tough out the insomnia than it is to deal with the crap of

drugs.

I remember back a few years ago -- i think i wrote about it on this list-- that

i had to take low-dose BC pills to address ovarian cysts (likely due to all the

crap in the WP)... anyway, I had really LIKED the low-dose birth control pills.

seriously felt good on them. the only thing was i bled all the time. i have a

friend who has an IUD with low dose hormone and she said she bled a lot int the

beginning and now she's very happy and not. i have to wonder if I need some low

dose sex hormone as well because except for the bleeding a lot (which i only

took for 3 months and bled a lot for 2 of them), i felt wonderful on them. and i

had been on bc pills for 18 years and liked those too... don't get me wrong, i'm

nt recommending synthetic, i'm just wondering if my body needs some low dose sex

hormones because i've always responded well to the synthetic ones...

just questions. and no, i'm not testing myself anymore. i'm so burnt out on

trying to figure it out sometimes that I just feel going by symptoms and what

changed in my life is easier than all the testing... it was becoming a part time

job for me!

anyway, just to catch you up. i peruse the list now and then but I simply can't

follow keep up with it daily.

if you want to catch me, you can on my blog: http://www.wilddingo.com. There

tons of swiss and some health stories there too (sleep, play, eat is a good

one!)

Miss you all, sam, laurel, liz, val... you're like sisters.

Sick of Measuring anything but the Pinot Noir in my Glass!

> >>

> >> I am 55 yrs old. haven't had a period since 2007.

> >> this past October I lost my smell and taste after

> >> getting over a cold and it wasn't coming back, the

> >> condition is called anosmia. I freaked out and went

> >> into severe anxiety mode. I tried everything to

> >> alleviate it. I guess the anxiety took its toll on me.

> >> I went to shrinks and tried Anti-depressants but

> >> one didn't help and the other made me so sick,

> >> I could even take a shower. An old friend told me

> >> about this Wiley Protocol using bioidentical hormones

> >> and went on it, they use massive doses of estradiol

> >> and progesterone, witht the philosohphy of bringing

> >> a woman back to her 20's and getting her periods

> >> again. I didn't like that part. I was on it for about

> >> 7 weeks and it made me sicker. I stopped it cold turkey.

> >> The anxiety and stress continued, I started to get my

> >> smell back some by then, although I wasn't even thinking

> >> of that anymore.

> >>

> >> I never tapered the hormones and that was probably a big mistake but they

were making me so sick and I continue to be so sick now after off of them for

about a month. My gyno gave me some other creams with 2 clicks of estradiol and

progesterone pill with pregnenoone which I did for about a week. No

improvements, continued to be sick...then he reduced the dose and changed me to

progesterone cream with no pregnenolone. continued not feeling well, and as of 5

days ago, I have taken nothing. I have never been so sick like this and if my

progesterone levels were so elevated on the saliva tests along with the

estradiol, why coninue taking them. something is making them high. did the WP

screw up my levels? did they affect my thyroid (high reverse T3) high cortisol,

high serum DHEAS, high testosterone on blood tests, but normal DHEA and

testosterone on saliva. I wish I never started these creams. Now what do I do?

> >>

> >> Now the you know what hit the fan......my blood

> >> pressure started to skyrocket, my pulse was fast,

> >> palpitations started (I currently take and have been

> >> on a beta blocker for over 20 yrs) My head felt like it

> >> was going to expode, I was shaking, jittery, nervous,

> >> had the runs all day, all the classic symptoms of severe

> >> anxiety, but I didn't have anything to be so anxious

> >> over. did the anxiety that started in October when

> >> I lost my smell take over and won't let go?

> >> or is it something else causing this?

> >>

> >> I went to another gyno and he knew his stuff.

> >> I had, had many blood tests taken showing low estrogens

> >> and progesterone levels, low prolactin, low FSH,

> >> low Vitamin D, high calcium, high DHEAS and

> >> testosterone, and this one endo told me I had

> >> the classic signs of PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome)

> >> but how??? I am in menopause, never had a fertility

> >> issue or any know cysts on my ovaries, although hadn't

> >> had a scan recently. 2 other gynos disagreed with her

> >> and said impossible. Recent saliva tests now show,

> >> very high progesterone and estrogen levels, off the

> >> chart levels, normal DHEA and testosterone but very

> >> high cortisol levels in the PM, and normal levels

> >> in the AM. all classic signs of the start of adrenal

> >> fatigue. I also have a very high reverse T3 level.

> >> I wake up every morning shaky, jittery, anxious where

> >> it won't leave no matter what I do. everything bothers me,

> >> I can't cry, wish I could, haven't laughed in so long,

> >> I can't remember. my head is exploding, my heart

> >> is pounding and skipping all the time. I am taking

> >> holy basil as prescribed by gyno and he wants me to

> >> continue the creams although I can't understand why

> >> since my levels are so high.

> >>

> >> I spoke with a doctor, a naturopath who told me that high levels of

progesterone

> >> can actually make you sick and have the reverse affects

> >> of levels in balance and as long as your adrenals and thryoid

> >> are messed up, the P/E levels wil remain high and

> >> won't give you the beneits. makes sense???

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> If my cortisol levels according to saliva tests are normal in the AM, why

do I wake up so jittery with high anxiety. according to the saliva tests, they

are high in the evening and PM. The serum test results were so very different

than the saliva results. I can post them in another message.

> >>

> >> I am a real mess, can't function, just have no health

> >> to do anything at all. I can't even shower or take

> >> care of myself without help. So far nothing is working.

> >> I take an occasional valium and even that doesn't work.

> >> I don't sleep and have no appetite, have lost tons of

> >> weight and feel like i am going to die.

> >>

> >> I had cancer 2 yrs ago and that weighs heavily on me

> >> since NHL [non-hodgkins lymphoma] can come back.

> >> I have a severe neck condition

> >> that prevents me from driving or working. I sit in this

> >> house wanting to cry and can't to release some stresses.

> >>

> >> I made an appt with an internist who specializes in

> >> endocrinology but that is not until June unless there

> >> is a cancellation.

> >>

> >> I stopped the creams and are only taking the holy basil

> >> and some vitamins. I can't keep starting and stopping

> >> the creams which will make the levels flucuate

> >> even more. I don't know what to do, the more I worry,

> >> the more my cortisol levels go higher. I can't feel

> >> worse than I already do. I feel like I am going to die.

> >> something is seriously wrong with me.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

> >

> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**