Folk Medicine was Estrogen/lyme

[Guest guest]

Hey Laurel,

Hope you enjoyed the sking! Here in land the trees are blooming and flowers are everywhere. Hanging with a physicist huh? Gotta love that!

I enjoy the conversation between art and science, proof and trust, truth and truth????. I'm reading a really fascinating book, Folk Medicine. It was written in 1957 by a Vermont doctor, D.C. Jarvis. M.D. This is the folk medicine he discovered upon his relocation to Barre, Vermont after medical school.

The farmers had "cures" and healthy practices based on their keen observation of nature.... the animals, plants and other living things around them. They learned from other living things how to use nature to recover from illness. This doc began to recommend these natural cures to his patients. Certainly not a double blind placebo controlled study, and he amassed lots of "evidence" of their efficacy over many years. This natural resonance is what the Chinese duplicate with acupuncture and herbs as well as feng shui.

The book lists the many uses of apple cider vinegar, honey and castor oil. The apple cider vinegar was used for shingles, burns, poison ivy and, get this....night sweats!!! "Night Sweats" If the skin surface of the body is given a cupped-palm hand bath of apple cider vinegar at bedtime, the night sweats will be prevented." Hmmmmmm......

Guess who just bought apple cider vinegar? EstroGel $40/month, apple cider vinegar $1.50/month. I'm willing to give it a go but I might be smelling funky. This is a fun and interesting book. I ordered it off amazon. Castor oil is supposed to reduce the "liver" brown spots. I got some of that too : )

Blessings

Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: laurel@...Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 10:19:00 -0700Subject: Re: : RE: Estrogen/lyme

Hi Janet,

I like your gentle reply. Thank you. I agree with you about not waiting for scientific verification in regard to many things about my health and I also believe it's important to try to keep good standards for critical thinking present. From the perspective of a physicist, medicine is more and an art rather than much of a science. I suppose it's a matter of degree? Or perhaps that thinking too, is an error? I'm trying, for myself, to sort this out. My partner is a theoretical physicist focusing on quantum theory and he's done a good job of challenging my thinking about science. To say the least! GAK! ((-: (I didn't know him when I got on the WP) I've asked him about physicists that support 'unusual' things and he reminded me that a degree isn't enough for someone's work to be considered credible.

It's damn hard to get to some version close to truth. Our minds are predisposed to support our bias. The best we have is a critical method.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In the meantime if we are feeling vital and healthy with whatever we've each cooked up - I'm going for it. At the same time I'm always aware now that we also can fool ourselves, I was keen on the WP while I was also really scared.

It's the part about extraordinary claims that make me leery. There's no use appealing to science and scientists if we aren't willing to work within their exacting standards. Perhaps though people want a story that supports the placebo effect and looking to pseudo science helps with that? From what I understand, the placebo effect is well documented.

I better get on the road. I'm taking the kids to Alberta to go skiing and see family.

Laurel

Hi Laurel, Thanks for joining this interesting conversation. With all due respect, I am not willing to wait for scientific verification of something that may help me. Often it is not one "thing" that helps or cures but a synergy of several things. The ultimate healer is our own body.I have been researching homeopathy of late and have found that there is a very well known physics genuis who has used methods similar to homeopathy in his research. He believes he has found out how and why homeopathy works and this discovery was purely by accident. He wasn't studying homeopathy at all. If and when his findings emerge there may be "scientific" evidence of its efficacy. Blessings,Janet

To: rhythmicliving From: laurel@...Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:23:14 -0700Subject: Re: : RE: Estrogen/lyme

I hate to say this on here and mess up the conversation so please hear this as if I were talking in person and gently. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular because I'm not following the thread closely. My understanding is that there is no scientific evidence to support homeopathy. I know there are those reporting that it helped (and gobs of folks in my life!), but until there is a large well controlled study we have to understand that there may be other factors contributing to the improvement. I'm not telling everyone to stop discussing it, but on here we do need understand correlation is not causation. Careful wording makes a difference towards clearer thinking. Laurel

[Guest guest]

Hey Janet, And I am too fascinated with the conversation about art, science, proof/trust. I'm comfortable adventuring, but in recent years I've been adding more healthy skepticism to my kit, well, trying to add it. :-/ Recently I've been listening to Dr. Ginger Brain Science podcasts. She interviews leading neuroscientists. It's fascinating! This one relates to some of our discussion. http://www.brainsciencepodcast.com/bsp/2010/9/27/pop-psychology-myths-with-scott-lilienfeld-bsp-70.html Here is the full list of episodes http://www.brainsciencepodcast.com/episodes-page/Oh yah, I have that old book! It's in taters. heh As for the vinegar (((-: when I was still suffering with P stuff I couldn't handle soaking in a bath of magnesium (Epsom Salts) because it made my heart pound hard and loud, but if I dumped a bunch of vinegar in the bath then I could soak in a nice hot bath with my heart beating peacefully. I got the idea from listening to Dr. . Lots of posts about him in the archives. He'd say the vinegar supports the firing of the sympathetic nervous system and the ovaries (endocrine system) are primarily associated with the sympathetic. Some members here managed to make their ovaries work better by using calcium and Vit D. Calcium supports the sympathetic side from what I understand and magnesium supports the parasympathetic, same with potassium. Back to the vinegar, I like to bath in it, but, I'm into lots of rinsing. (((-: Rinse, rinse, rinse!!! Oh, another great thing about vinegar, it supports the acid mantle on our skin. Soap has a PH that takes the oils off, but it also interferes with the acid mantle (all easily googleable). Incidentally, since I've been able to comfortably tolerate P I've also been comfortable in a hot Epsom salt bath. It was always my sense that E was sympathetic and P was parasympathetic supporting as a quick way to think about it.There's a fresh layer of snow!!! Off to burn my thighs and chase the kids down the hill. LaurelHey Laurel, Hope you enjoyed the sking! Here in land the trees are blooming and flowers are everywhere. Hanging with a physicist huh? Gotta love that! I enjoy the conversation between art and science, proof and trust, truth and truth????. I'm reading a really fascinating book, Folk Medicine. It was written in 1957 by a Vermont doctor, D.C. Jarvis. M.D. This is the folk medicine he discovered upon his relocation to Barre, Vermont after medical school. The farmers had "cures" and healthy practices based on their keen observation of nature.... the animals, plants and other living things around them. They learned from other living things how to use nature to recover from illness. This doc began to recommend these natural cures to his patients. Certainly not a double blind placebo controlled study, and he amassed lots of "evidence" of their efficacy over many years. This natural resonance is what the Chinese duplicate with acupuncture and herbs as well as feng shui. The book lists the many uses of apple cider vinegar, honey and castor oil. The apple cider vinegar was used for shingles, burns, poison ivy and, get this....night sweats!!! "Night Sweats" If the skin surface of the body is given a cupped-palm hand bath of apple cider vinegar at bedtime, the night sweats will be prevented." Hmmmmmm...... Guess who just bought apple cider vinegar? EstroGel $40/month, apple cider vinegar $1.50/month. I'm willing to give it a go but I might be smelling funky. This is a fun and interesting book. I ordered it off amazon. Castor oil is supposed to reduce the "liver" brown spots. I got some of that too : ) BlessingsJanetTo: rhythmicliving From: laurel@...Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 10:19:00 -0700Subject: Re: : RE: Estrogen/lymeHi Janet, I like your gentle reply. Thank you. I agree with you about not waiting for scientific verification in regard to many things about my health and I also believe it's important to try to keep good standards for critical thinking present. From the perspective of a physicist, medicine is more and an art rather than much of a science. I suppose it's a matter of degree? Or perhaps that thinking too, is an error? I'm trying, for myself, to sort this out. My partner is a theoretical physicist focusing on quantum theory and he's done a good job of challenging my thinking about science. To say the least! GAK! ((-: (I didn't know him when I got on the WP) I've asked him about physicists that support 'unusual' things and he reminded me that a degree isn't enough for someone's work to be considered credible. It's damn hard to get to some version close to truth. Our minds are predisposed to support our bias. The best we have is a critical method. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. In the meantime if we are feeling vital and healthy with whatever we've each cooked up - I'm going for it. At the same time I'm always aware now that we also can fool ourselves, I was keen on the WP while I was also really scared. It's the part about extraordinary claims that make me leery. There's no use appealing to science and scientists if we aren't willing to work within their exacting standards. Perhaps though people want a story that supports the placebo effect and looking to pseudo science helps with that? From what I understand, the placebo effect is well documented. I better get on the road. I'm taking the kids to Alberta to go skiing and see family. LaurelHi Laurel, Thanks for joining this interesting conversation. With all due respect, I am not willing to wait for scientific verification of something that may help me. Often it is not one "thing" that helps or cures but a synergy of several things. The ultimate healer is our own body.I have been researching homeopathy of late and have found that there is a very well known physics genuis who has used methods similar to homeopathy in his research. He believes he has found out how and why homeopathy works and this discovery was purely by accident. He wasn't studying homeopathy at all. If and when his findings emerge there may be "scientific" evidence of its efficacy. Blessings,Janet To: rhythmicliving From: laurel@...Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2011 17:23:14 -0700Subject: Re: : RE: Estrogen/lymeI hate to say this on here and mess up the conversation so please hear this as if I were talking in person and gently. I'm not directing this at anyone in particular because I'm not following the thread closely. My understanding is that there is no scientific evidence to support homeopathy. I know there are those reporting that it helped (and gobs of folks in my life!), but until there is a large well controlled study we have to understand that there may be other factors contributing to the improvement. I'm not telling everyone to stop discussing it, but on here we do need understand correlation is not causation. Careful wording makes a difference towards clearer thinking. Laurel