Re: Excess Progesterone AND estrogen from WP

[Guest guest]

-

This sounds very interesting!

Can you expand on the process of getting these women off such high hormone

doses??

Lori

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

> gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels

> are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment

> with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing

> education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too

> high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

>

> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

> getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline.

> I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if

> you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the

> WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for

> us.

>

> beth

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , Thank you for coming here and sharing this information! I agree. She's fabulous! I talked to Dr. Schwartzbein back when Somers book promoting the WP came out. I think I've mentioned on the group before that she is helpful with WP withdrawal and it's great to have someone show up and share about it. Do keep us posted about your progress. I'm amazed that you were able to stand the WP that long! Your experience though is evidence that someone can rough it out for a very long time before stopping it. We had another poster tell us about her doctor supervised withdrawal process and she had an experience that I believe is important to know about. Her name is and her email handle is wilddingo if you want to search the archives. After some period of time after stopping the WP she later started getting lab results with astonishingly high levels of P showing up. It's something to know about. In my experience the P started coming out of my tissues and into my system AFTER I stopped loading it with P. Great to have you here! Next time you see Dr. Schwartzbein please give her a big smile from me. LaurelHi all,I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.beth

[Guest guest]

Hello Laurel and anyone else that might care to comment..I did not do WP, but a

small dose of oral P that seemed to wreck my system. I wonder if Schwarzbein

does phone consults? charge?

Angie

>

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> >

> > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >

> > beth

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

It would be great if you could connect with Schwarzbein.

Perhaps your E is low and also you could be allergic to some component. Maybe

you don't need it? Have you checked your hormones levels?

Laurel

> Hello Laurel and anyone else that might care to comment..I did not do WP, but

a small dose of oral P that seemed to wreck my system. I wonder if Schwarzbein

does phone consults? charge?

> Angie

>

>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hi all,

>>>

>>> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

>>>

>>> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

>>>

>>> beth

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Thanks Laurel. I'll tell and I'll see if I can find wilddingo as I'd like

to know what is up with her now and how that went.

I have a friend who has been on the protocol for about the same amount of time.

She has her levels at E-1 and P-2 as she just felt like they needed to be lower

herself. According to though, they are still too high.

I also have a friend in her 70s who had a hysterectomy years ago and has been

only the WP for years. She says she feels great but I may hook her up to this

group so she can just see what is going on.

Will keep you posted. Last night I went to sleep and forgot to put any on at all

(happens once in a while:-). I think it's my body telling me something:-))) (or

I'm just tired).

Thanks again. Great to be here and part of this discussion.

beth

>

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> >

> > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >

> > beth

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just thought to add this. In terms of testing our Estrogen levels, most of our

estrogen is stored in our lymph system so testing our blood levels doesn't tell

the whole story.

beth

>

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> >

> > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >

> > beth

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Interesting. Is that something told you about? I'd love a reference.

That would be great!

Bent Formby suggested that the P that wasn't showing up on my serum tests when I

was loaded to the gills may be getting inside the red blood cells. He kept

saying it was impossible to know given that no one had ever subjected animals to

such astonishing levels of hormones. He'd repeat that no one would ever get

funding to do such a thing as it would be considered animal abuse, not science.

When the crowd of us were getting off the WP a few sent urine to a lab in

California. (nuimom on here) managed to talk to one of the guys there and

at least get this much about the WP urine that was coming in. He said, " the

levels are so high we thought we were dealing with zoo animals " .

Laurel

> I just thought to add this. In terms of testing our Estrogen levels, most of

our estrogen is stored in our lymph system so testing our blood levels doesn't

tell the whole story.

>

> beth

>

>

>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Hi all,

>>>

>>> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

>>>

>>> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

>>>

>>> beth

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Laurel, yes, this is something mentioned. I'll send her a note to clarify

for the group. I can't wait to get off this stuff and by stuff I mean 'so much'

stuff.

The more I learn about this, the more I want to do something to stop the WP

group from continuing what they are doing. I'm not really sure why the FDA

(well, I do) hasn't stepped in. It's bizarre when you think about it...

Susie trains the doctors.

Doctors prescribe the hormone with her levels.

She demands that they only use 'her' hormones (which are a lot more expensive

than other compounded E & P though she says they aren't the same?)

She used to do meetings which were fascinating because she really does

understand some stuff about the hormones, at least you think so when you're

listening to her (and I really think she does know a ton. I just think she got

an idea that this is the right way and it's not). At the meetings she would take

each individual woman, look at a form that we would fill out with lots of

questions about our cycles and symptoms and then one by one, talk to the woman,

adjust her levels and move on.

My background is fitness and nutrition and the symptoms the women would give her

would be 'I'm tired more " or " I'm not sleeping " or other simple stuff that could

be caused by myriad of things: too much stress, too much caffeine, not enough

exercise, being unfit/out of shape, eating terribly, etc. ad nausium. I never

understood how she could just say, " You need to up your E to E+3 " by basis of

what she heard from the women. I think this is why she stopped doing the

meeting.

I want to be very clear that I like Susie Wiley and her teammate, Caren. They

have a passion for helping women that is fabulous. I'm just so questioning what

they are doing and how they are doing it.

> >>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>> Hi all,

> >>>

> >>> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> >>>

> >>> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >>>

> >>> beth

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

> >

> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

Just wondering where/ if Dr Schwarzbein has a website about her practice? Im

interested in speaking with a Dr that can help me recover from WP/ high

progesterone doses? Im in New Zealand, but Im prepared to go international as Im

getting nowhere fast with my own doctor. It would seem we are about 10 years

behind the rest of the world, and WP is being viewed as the latest as greatest,

sigh... Im now taking only estrogen, and not under medical supervision, so

feeling unsafe in this situation as well.

Im also looking to find a good website that sells estrogen online. Im needing to

take 10mg plus twice a day and the only bio-identical estrogen that I can buy in

NZ cost $104 for 10mg/g in a 50g jar. That's only 25 days worth! And I have a

feeling that the potency and mixing is very different between jars, argh!

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> > >

> > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> > >

> > > beth

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Angie

I wonder if you can order from http://www.inhousepharmacy.biz/ They ship from

Vanuatu - not too far from you!

Laurel

> Hi there,

>

> Just wondering where/ if Dr Schwarzbein has a website about her practice? Im

interested in speaking with a Dr that can help me recover from WP/ high

progesterone doses? Im in New Zealand, but Im prepared to go international as Im

getting nowhere fast with my own doctor. It would seem we are about 10 years

behind the rest of the world, and WP is being viewed as the latest as greatest,

sigh... Im now taking only estrogen, and not under medical supervision, so

feeling unsafe in this situation as well.

>

> Im also looking to find a good website that sells estrogen online. Im needing

to take 10mg plus twice a day and the only bio-identical estrogen that I can buy

in NZ cost $104 for 10mg/g in a 50g jar. That's only 25 days worth! And I have a

feeling that the potency and mixing is very different between jars, argh!

>

>

>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> Hi all,

>>>>

>>>> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who

gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are

way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

>>>>

>>>> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

>>>>

>>>> beth

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

inhousepharmacy.biz is a **GREAT** place to order from. I have been buying

there for several years.

Their prices and service are good plus they have name-brand Stuff. (I use the

Estrofem.) I tried getting a cheapo off-brand estrogen recently and it didn't

have the 'ooomph,' if ya know what I mean....

~ ruby ~

> >>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> Hi all,

> >>>>

> >>>> I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor

who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels

are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> >>>>

> >>>> I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >>>>

> >>>> beth

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

> >

> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as

medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo,

Why would a doctor put a 32 year old on Wiley?

I hope I'm not prying.

Gael

Thanks Everyone for your repliesIm really having a bad time at the moment with migraines that write me off for days. I used to only get them every second week before starting WP, but Ive had one nearly every day for the past month. Im so nervous about the risks Im taking with my health. My own doctor takes WP and thinks it's fantastic, but Im going to phone her next week and say that it really isnt working for me. The initial benefits i felt have been far out weighed by my current situation. And the $200 a month Im spending certainly isnt worth it!Ive tried to find contact details for Dr Shcwarzbein, and Im wondering if someone (maybe beth) could please confirm for me that i have the right ones before I start making international phone calls:215 Pesetas LaneSanta Barbara, CA 93110Phone: Apart from this I am so lost. Im the only person my age that i know doing HRT (Im 32, never had any children, still look like a teen ager!) and I dont know anyone apart from my Dr that's doing WP (and you guys). My headache is killing me and Im too scared to eat because these migraines make me throw up. I just wish I had someone who would takeover and navigate my way through this maze for me.Thanks everyone for all your help. Hoping from some progress soon.Jo> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,> > > > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.> > > > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.> > > > > > > > beth> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Jo, I hope you get some relief and that a good treatment is found for you. Thank you for responding.

Are you in NZ? That is one of the places I definitely want to see one day, especially south island.

Gael

That's okay, it's not prying. It's not like I will ever get to America to meet you all:)Well, I might be 32, but my hormones were/ are at the level of a post menopausal woman (My dr described me as someone who looked like they were 132 in their blood tests, they were that low) and I had all the lovely symptoms that comes with that. So, I guess age is irrelevant.And she suggested WP for me because she has had success on it herself. I dont think she meant for me to be this miserable, but it has turned out that way.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,> > > > > > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous > doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the > levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first > appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most > amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way > too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.> > > > > > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle > with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health > decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the > web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people > running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's > right for us.> > > > > > > > > > beth> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

It's on our list! (My husband and I)

Hope you make it over here one day too. The States are beautiful.

And most of all I hope you get some relief.

Gael

Thank you! I hope so too:)Yes, Im in New Zealand. It's a beautiful country. My family is from the South Island, but I live in the North. It's totally worth the trip if you can make it!> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all,> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous > > doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. > Yes, the > > levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first > > appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the > most > > amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP > is way > > too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.> > > > > > > > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to > struggle > > with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health > > decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up > on the > > web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people > > running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean > it's > > right for us.> > > > > > > > > > > > beth> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Everyone for your replies

Im really having a bad time at the moment with migraines that write me off for

days. I used to only get them every second week before starting WP, but Ive had

one nearly every day for the past month. Im so nervous about the risks Im taking

with my health. My own doctor takes WP and thinks it's fantastic, but Im going

to phone her next week and say that it really isnt working for me. The initial

benefits i felt have been far out weighed by my current situation. And the $200

a month Im spending certainly isnt worth it!

Ive tried to find contact details for Dr Shcwarzbein, and Im wondering if

someone (maybe beth) could please confirm for me that i have the right ones

before I start making international phone calls:

215 Pesetas Lane

Santa Barbara, CA 93110

Phone:

Apart from this I am so lost. Im the only person my age that i know doing HRT

(Im 32, never had any children, still look like a teen ager!) and I dont know

anyone apart from my Dr that's doing WP (and you guys). My headache is killing

me and Im too scared to eat because these migraines make me throw up. I just

wish I had someone who would takeover and navigate my way through this maze for

me.

Thanks everyone for all your help. Hoping from some progress soon.

Jo

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor

who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels

are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with

Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about

estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those

levels are doing to our bodies.

> > > >

> > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with

getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm

finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you

want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP

aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> > > >

> > > > beth

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That's okay, it's not prying. It's not like I will ever get to America to meet

you all:)

Well, I might be 32, but my hormones were/ are at the level of a post menopausal

woman (My dr described me as someone who looked like they were 132 in their

blood tests, they were that low) and I had all the lovely symptoms that comes

with that. So, I guess age is irrelevant.

And she suggested WP for me because she has had success on it herself. I dont

think she meant for me to be this miserable, but it has turned out that way.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous

> doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the

> levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first

> appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most

> amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is

way

> too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle

> with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health

> decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the

> web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people

> running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's

> right for us.

> > > > >

> > > > > beth

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you! I hope so too:)

Yes, Im in New Zealand. It's a beautiful country. My family is from the South

Island, but I live in the North. It's totally worth the trip if you can make it!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous

> > doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis.

> Yes, the

> > levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first

> > appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the

> most

> > amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP

> is way

> > too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to

> struggle

> > with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health

> > decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up

> on the

> > web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people

> > running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean

> it's

> > right for us.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > beth

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On the cream absorption. I was using 6-8mg a day and my blood level last time was 54. I just switched to another base and will check to see if things get better. I can’t use the gels as they absorb to fast

Liz

Hi:)

OMG!!! Words fail me about that doctor!! I'm in New Zealand and I briefly flirted with the WP, but I decided that I wouldn't be able to afford it, and didn't think I would find a doctor in New Zealand who would prescribe it. I was disappointed at the time, but after doing further research, including reading Laurel's site and Dr Vliet's books, I now realise what a lucky escape I had!!

Dr Vliet has decades of experience in treating hormonal problems in women of ALL ages. She offers a detailed second opinion service by telephone. It's pretty expensive, though, and I don't know if she takes clients from outside the States, but it might be worth checking out her site - www.herplace.com - details and prices of her second opinion service are on there.

Her books are fantastic, especially " It's My Ovaries, Stupid " and " Screaming To Be Heard " - there are several copies at various libraries in New Zealand. If your local library doesn't have them, they can get them in using the libraries interloan service. It only takes a few days. She writes extensively about premature ovarian failure in young women, so you might find them of interest to you. She has quite a bit about hormonal connections to migraines as well.

I'm fairly sure that Inhousepharmacy doesn't deliver to New Zealand - a bit of an anomaly seeing they are so close. Goldpharma definitely do though, and they've got brand name Oestrogel at a great price. It's a fantastic product. It's bioidentical estradiol gel and I'm sure the potency is consistent from bottle to bottle. HOWEVER, at the huge amount you're using, a bottle would only last you two and a half days!! I use 2 pumps twice a day, which gives me 3 mg estradiol daily. I'm postmenopausal and this amount gives me a MINIMUM serum level of 332 pmol/l (90 pg/ml). A bottle of Oestrogel lasts me for 16 days. I wonder what serum levels you are getting with the amount of cream you're using? I have read that sometimes women can be using massive amounts of estrogen cream, yet are not achieving very good serum levels. I've also read that the gels are absorbed much better than the creams. Dr Vliet makes this point and gives the reasons for it.

Just a thought - maybe you could see a gynaecologist for advice. You should be able to just ring and make an appointment to see one privately, without a doctor's referral - my Mum did.

All the best,

Vicki.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes, the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

> > > > >

> > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look up on the web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> > > > >

> > > > > beth

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.com

http://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

[Guest guest]

I wonder if the gels absorb too fast with me too, Liz, as my experience is that within MINUTES of applying them I feel panicky and as if I am going to jump out of my skin, it's as if the entire dose hits me at once and it takes up to an hour to feel normal again, and then after that hour I feel as if I have zero estrogen at all. I have what are not exactly hot flashes but just feeling hot all day and at night I have night sweats, this is with the gel. On the patch the absorption seems slower but I still get very hot at night. I can't seem to find anything that works reliably and consistently. And with any form of E my blood E is never more than 60.

Gael

On the cream absorption. I was using 6-8mg a day and my blood level last time was 54. I just switched to another base and will check to see if things get better. I can’t use the gels as they absorb to fast :(Liz

[Guest guest]

Dr. G once told me to try "troches", which I think is under the tongue, but I haven't found anyone who will RX it. And I wonder if the sublingual might not also absorb very quickly?

Liz, do you get the night sweats with the gel and the patch? I get it with BOTH, and since I have been on synthroid the night sweats are worse.

Gael

Hi Vicki,The gel gives me anxiety, etc. Patches can have the same effect. I have tried E every which way, except the pellets. I would be tempted with these if I lived close enough to a pellet dr. Liz

Hiya Jo,I'm in Taranaki. I'm amazed that you have been put on such a high dose of estrogen and no follow-up testing has been done. Mind you, I'm amazed at her prescribing all that stuff for you anyway. Haha, I just noticed that both beth's and my posts to you started with OMG. I hope you get a chance to read Dr Vliet's books, because, as I mentioned before, she writes extensively about problems caused by low estrogen in young women like you. She's also got loads of radio talks that you can listen to for free. She's got one about premature ovarian failure that may interest you. Just go to her website and scroll down to a sign saying "blogtalkradio" to find them. She's got talks on adrenal failure, thyroid, PCOS and various other hormonal subjects. She believes in bioidentical hormones, but only those that are FDA approved such as Estrogel and patches. Have you had your thyroid levels checked? I had mine done a couple of months ago and then started on levothyroxine, and it's making a huge difference to my energy levels. I hope you can get some help soon and maybe get on a more rational program of treatment. You're only young - you should be feeling great!! ***Liz*** Gosh, that doesn't sound a very good level from that amount of cream. Just curious as to what you mean when you say that the gel absorbs too fast? Is this going by blood tests or by the way you feel? I put mine on my arms, which are quite thin (unlike some other parts of me!!), and I can certainly feel the effect of the gel shortly after I've put it on, but I really like the sort of "warm, mellow" feeling that it gives me. I've only ever had a blood test 12 hours after my evening dose, which probably shows my lowest level. Sometime I'd like to have another one done about 4 hours after my morning application to get some idea of the average level I'm getting from the gel. Take care girls,Vicki. .

http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.comhttp://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki, where in NZ are you? Im going to make an appointment with my GP as

soon as the Easter break is over. Before I started the cream my blood tests was

38 I have no idea what it is on the cream, as I havnt been tested. My GP would

probably be agreeable to referring me to a gynaecologist (or however you spell

it), as she has been suspicous of the WP for a while. And, yes! It is VERY

expensive! Over $200 a month for the mish-mash of creams Im taking. Not a good

investment if you ask me.

Jo

> >>>>> > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > > Hi all,

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a

fabulous

> >>>>>> doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis.

Yes,

> >>>>>> the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my

first

> >>>>>> appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the

most

> >>>>>> amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP

> >>>>>> is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to

> >>>>>> struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my

general

> >>>>>> health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look

> >>>>>> up on the web if you want the real info. She is an

endocronologist

> >>>>>> and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but

> >>>>>> that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > > beth

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>>> > > > > >

> >>>>> > > > >

> >>>> > > >

> >>> > >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

> http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.com

> http://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, Gael, that’s what happens to me. It feels like it goes in to fast. I than get that panicky feeling, heart palps, sweating, etc. I’ve tried Estrasorb and Divigel. Even the cream can make me a bit edgy but it’s not that bad.

Liz

I wonder if the gels absorb too fast with me too, Liz, as my experience is that within MINUTES of applying them I feel panicky and as if I am going to jump out of my skin, it's as if the entire dose hits me at once and it takes up to an hour to feel normal again, and then after that hour I feel as if I have zero estrogen at all. I have what are not exactly hot flashes but just feeling hot all day and at night I have night sweats, this is with the gel. On the patch the absorption seems slower but I still get very hot at night. I can't seem to find anything that works reliably and consistently. And with any form of E my blood E is never more than 60.

Gael

On the cream absorption. I was using 6-8mg a day and my blood level last time was 54. I just switched to another base and will check to see if things get better. I can’t use the gels as they absorb to fast

Liz

http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.com

http://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

The gel gives me anxiety, etc. Patches can have the same effect. I have tried E every which way, except the pellets. I would be tempted with these if I lived close enough to a pellet dr.

Liz

Hiya Jo,

I'm in Taranaki. I'm amazed that you have been put on such a high dose of estrogen and no follow-up testing has been done. Mind you, I'm amazed at her prescribing all that stuff for you anyway. Haha, I just noticed that both beth's and my posts to you started with OMG. I hope you get a chance to read Dr Vliet's books, because, as I mentioned before, she writes extensively about problems caused by low estrogen in young women like you. She's also got loads of radio talks that you can listen to for free. She's got one about premature ovarian failure that may interest you. Just go to her website and scroll down to a sign saying " blogtalkradio " to find them. She's got talks on adrenal failure, thyroid, PCOS and various other hormonal subjects. She believes in bioidentical hormones, but only those that are FDA approved such as Estrogel and patches. Have you had your thyroid levels checked? I had mine done a couple of months ago and then started on levothyroxine, and it's making a huge difference to my energy levels. I hope you can get some help soon and maybe get on a more rational program of treatment. You're only young - you should be feeling great!!

***Liz*** Gosh, that doesn't sound a very good level from that amount of cream. Just curious as to what you mean when you say that the gel absorbs too fast? Is this going by blood tests or by the way you feel? I put mine on my arms, which are quite thin (unlike some other parts of me!!), and I can certainly feel the effect of the gel shortly after I've put it on, but I really like the sort of " warm, mellow " feeling that it gives me. I've only ever had a blood test 12 hours after my evening dose, which probably shows my lowest level. Sometime I'd like to have another one done about 4 hours after my morning application to get some idea of the average level I'm getting from the gel.

Take care girls,

Vicki.

..

http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.com

http://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

[Guest guest]

Yep, Im surprised too!

Yes, Ive had my thyroid tested and Im now on a protocol to help treat Reverse

T3. THings are working well in that department, and Im also on meds (HC, Fludro,

DHEA) for my adrenals. I was a real mess a couple of years ago. Almost

catatonic.

Just went on line to look for Dr Vliet's book and it would seem she written

about six. Which is the one/ two you suggest? I'll order it them take it to my

doctor. Im thinking you might mean the one called " It's my ovaries stupid " . The

contents look like the story of my life!

Oh dear! Just went to Amazon and have bought up large. No self control!

Jo

> > > >>>>> > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > > Hi all,

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a

fabulous

> > > >>>>>> doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular

basis. Yes,

> > > >>>>>> the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my

first

> > > >>>>>> appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got

the most

> > > >>>>>> amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why

the WP

> > > >>>>>> is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to

> > > >>>>>> struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my

general

> > > >>>>>> health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again.

Look

> > > >>>>>> up on the web if you want the real info. She is an

endocronologist

> > > >>>>>> and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means

but

> > > >>>>>> that doesn't mean it's right for us.

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > > beth

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>>> > > > > >

> > > >>>>> > > > >

> > > >>>> > > >

> > > >>> > >

> > > >> >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > http://liz-vernand.artistwebsites.com

> > > http://fineartamerica.com/shop/liz-vernand.html

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I am one that continously got very less than optimal response from estradiol creams/gels/patches. I've tried them all. After feeling so badly for so long .. finally, a year ago, I decided to give hormone pellets a try. I am totally thrilled with all of my improvements .. fatigue, memory, motivation, weight loss, libido .. you name it. All those issues are much, much better. Perhaps something that you would want to consider?Best,GloSent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint!----- Reply message -----Date: Sat, Apr 23, 2011 5:45 amSubject: Re: Excess Progesterone AND estrogen from WPTo: <rhythmicliving >Yep, Im surprised too!Yes, Ive had my thyroid tested and Im now on a protocol to help treat Reverse T3. THings are working well in that department, and Im also on meds (HC, Fludro, DHEA) for my adrenals. I was a real mess a couple of years ago. Almost catatonic.Just went on line to look for Dr Vliet's book and it would seem she written about six. Which is the one/ two you suggest? I'll order it them take it to my doctor. Im thinking you might mean the one called " It's my ovaries stupid " . The contents look like the story of my life!Oh dear! Just went to Amazon and have bought up large. No self control!Jo> > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > Hi all,> > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > I'm reading your emails and relating. I just went to a fabulous> > > >>>>>> doctor who gets people off of the Wiley Protocol on a regular basis. Yes,> > > >>>>>> the levels are way too high. I spend 2.5 hours last Thursday at my first> > > >>>>>> appointment with Schwarzbein here in Santa Barbara and got the most> > > >>>>>> amazing education about estrogen and progesterone levels and why the WP> > > >>>>>> is way too high and what those levels are doing to our bodies.> > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > I was on the WP for over 5 years and I have continued to> > > >>>>>> struggle with getting my periods regular and continue to feel my general> > > >>>>>> health decline. I'm finally excited about getting healthy again. Look> > > >>>>>> up on the web if you want the real info. She is an endocronologist> > > >>>>>> and the people running the WP aren't. They mean well by all means but> > > >>>>>> that doesn't mean it's right for us.> > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > beth> > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >