RE: Me again - still trying to find what works safely

November 23, 2010

Hi Jo,

If you tell your dr that you do not want to do the WP but continue like you are, will she support you in your decision? She should know how to keep track of things. That is what I would want in my dr. I found that the ones that push a protocol and aren’t open to what I need/want are not helpful to me. I was pushed to use P pre Hyst (not WP) and it messed me up BAD. I did not have the wherewithal nor the knowledge nor the access to the info that is out there now or I would NEVER have let what happen to me happened. I will keep saying go with your instinct. Ask your dr about ultrasounds to keep an eye on your lining.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Liz

Okay everybody, here is where I am at at the moment. I am up to my third cycle of BHRT. I have been reading all the posts since I joined and have done a bit of research myself, plus I am still listening to my doctor (for the most part). My doctor wants me to do the Wiley Protocol. Apparantly she has at least 20 other patients on it, including herself, and has had a lot of success with it (darn it!). I am worried that htis is making her be a little less objective?? But anyway. SHe is right, I do need to take something.

I am really enjoying/ liking the way I feel in teh follicular (estrogen only phase). I even handled the drop at day 14 okay this cycle. But! I cant really handle any more than about 40mg a day of the progesterone, and this is no where near what my doctor is saying that I need to take! Last time I tried to go up to 160 mg (80mg morning and night) I ended up in hospital with severe dehydration from vomitting and diahorrea from a migraine (the same migraines I would get at ovulation and day 28 of every cycle before the BHRT). I cant handle this happening all the time. I have sever hypoadrenalism (from steroids to treat Crohn's), I have an ileostomy and I also have hypothyroidism. My body can not cope with these migraines.

Today I woke up with a very bad hormone headache that hasnt gone away all day. The tingly feeling has returned to patches of skin on my face. I feel all old and achy. I am sooooo sleepy even though I slept 12 hours last night (which is much longer than I would normally sleep), and I am a nice shade of yellow not the fresh pink skinn I was having last week. Oh, and just had a heart palpatation, fun fun

So I am thinking the high dose of progesterone is just toooo much!

So my questions are

1. if I continue to take 40mg (20mg morning and night) of progesterone is this enough to oppose the 4mg of estrogen I am taking at the same time, or should I drop the estrogen too?

2. Is it okay to follow the follicular/ luteal phase doses of estrogen as reccomended by WP, and only drop the progesterone. Or should I drop the estrogen in the follicular as well.

3. And, is my wonderful experience in the follicular phase on the estrogen going to be a short lived thing? Will I eventually get a build up of the estrogen too? Should I reduce this as well. What Can I look out for to know if it is getting too high?

I am prepared to confront my doctor with what I am experiencing at the moment. No one can live feeling this sleepy and sore in the head.

Thanks heaps

Jo

New Zealand

December 5, 2010

Jo, I am way behind in my email and don't know if anyone has responded to

this. IMHO, it is absolutely crazy to put your body through this hell on a

protocol that has no scientific basis. Sueie Wiley, the author of the

protocol, doesn't even have a bachelor's degree.

There is research on PubMed that indicates that progesterone cream does not

protect the endometrium in 32% of women. I guess you have to get

endometrial cancer to see if you are one of those 32%.

Many on this board had a terrible time with WP. For some, it took many,

many months to get progesterone out of the tissues. Here is much of their

information. http://rhythmicliving.org/

A while back, I posted the following:

My ob/gyn just gave me a research paper and begged me not to cycle anymore.

Apparently, the longer you cycle, the higher the incidence of endometrial

cancer.

" The use of a continuous estradiol-progestin therapy regimen for 3 years or

more was associated with a 76 reduction in the risk for Type 1 cancer. In

contrast, the use of a sequential estradiol-progestin therapy regimen for at

least 5 years was accompanied with a 69% elevation if the progestin was

added monthly, and with a significantly higher, 276% risk elevation if

progestin was added at 3-month intervals. Sequential regimens containing

norethisterone acetate, medroxyprogesterone acetate, or dydrogesterone

administered orally showed no significant differences in the endometrial

safety. Oral and transdermal norethisterone acetate were associated with

similar risk elevations. Women using a monthly sequential

estradiol-progestin regimen tended to be diagnosed with endometrial cancer

in an earlier stage than the background population. "

Jaakkola, S, et. al. " Endometrial Cancer in Postmenopausal Women Using

Estraddiol-Progestin Therapy. Obstetrics & Gynecology December 2009

Val

-----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

On Behalf Of jovoice31

Okay everybody, here is where I am at at the moment. I am up to my third

cycle of BHRT. I have been reading all the posts since I joined and have

done a bit of research myself, plus I am still listening to my doctor (for

the most part). My doctor wants me to do the Wiley Protocol. Apparantly she

has at least 20 other patients on it, including herself, and has had a lot

of success with it (darn it!). I am worried that htis is making her be a

little less objective?? But anyway. SHe is right, I do need to take

something.

I am really enjoying/ liking the way I feel in teh follicular (estrogen only

phase). I even handled the drop at day 14 okay this cycle. But! I cant

really handle any more than about 40mg a day of the progesterone, and this

is no where near what my doctor is saying that I need to take! Last time I

tried to go up to 160 mg (80mg morning and night) I ended up in hospital

with severe dehydration from vomitting and diahorrea from a migraine (the

same migraines I would get at ovulation and day 28 of every cycle before the

BHRT). I cant handle this happening all the time. I have sever

hypoadrenalism (from steroids to treat Crohn's), I have an ileostomy and I

also have hypothyroidism. My body can not cope with these migraines.

Today I woke up with a very bad hormone headache that hasnt gone away all

day. The tingly feeling has returned to patches of skin on my face. I feel

all old and achy. I am sooooo sleepy even though I slept 12 hours last night

(which is much longer than I would normally sleep), and I am a nice shade of

yellow not the fresh pink skinn I was having last week. Oh, and just had a

heart palpatation, fun fun

So I am thinking the high dose of progesterone is just toooo much!

So my questions are

1. if I continue to take 40mg (20mg morning and night) of progesterone is

this enough to oppose the 4mg of estrogen I am taking at the same time, or

should I drop the estrogen too?

2. Is it okay to follow the follicular/ luteal phase doses of estrogen as

reccomended by WP, and only drop the progesterone. Or should I drop the

estrogen in the follicular as well.

3. And, is my wonderful experience in the follicular phase on the estrogen

going to be a short lived thing? Will I eventually get a build up of the

estrogen too? Should I reduce this as well. What Can I look out for to know

if it is getting too high?

I am prepared to confront my doctor with what I am experiencing at the

moment. No one can live feeling this sleepy and sore in the head.

Thanks heaps

Jo

New Zealand

December 6, 2010

Hi Val,

Quick question:

When it says continuous estradiol-progestin therapy v. sequential – what does that exactly mean? And then it goes into 1 month or 3 month intervals? Did they test with different doses?

I’m still not sure I completely understand this study, nor have I formed any sort of opinion. The two main doctors I have spoken with about it in general, Dr. Reiss in LA and Dr. Moran here in London, don’t have a strong opinion either (both have seen this study) and don’t feel there is enough information so leave it up to the individual. They are always concerned that bio-identicals aren’t used so tend to view more sceptically. Both are big into research, including doing their own and are champions of promoting new studies.

Nora

Reply-To: <rhythmicliving >

Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 16:06:23 -0700

To: <rhythmicliving >

Subject: RE: Me again - still trying to find what works safely