Re: How high is safe?

[Guest guest]

YES!!! YES!!! YES!!!! The doses you are taking are not just dangerous, they are what Bent Formby, PhD., calls an nuclear blast to the endocrine system. Read LG's story http://rhythmicliving.org/?page_id=20 The doses our so high that the NIH wouldn't allow the equivalent doses to be used on mice as it would be considered flat out animal abuse. Do you have any sense of how high? If normal scientifically published BHRT were a cup of coffee, then the dose of the WP is equivalent to 20 of those huge coffee dispensers you see in a cafeteria!!!!! And BTW, when you do less than the P in the back of the book, Wiley says you are no longer on the WP. Sounds like they have changed their tune, or your PA is now not doing the official WP? Oh well, it's all crazy no matter how low you go at this point because it's all overloading your system and normal testing no longer applies. Try testing your urine and there you'll find the evidence of the crush your body is going through. Test your growth hormone levels, they will be in the bits. Test your blood sugar levels while doing the P. It's astonishing to me and my mother that women continue to go on the WP when there is well documented information on the internet now about the negative effects of it. When I went on the WP, there was nothing and no one had done any work to comb through the crazy references in the book, and Dr. Formby was no where to be seen. I started the group to gather information. I put together the first documentation for the protocol. I ran this group to help women get information. When we did everything EXACTLY the way Wiley said to do it, we all crashed and burned. Read the archives!!! Go back to April 2005.Now there is ample information online with loads of individual stories and still women dive seeking the silver bullet!! You are building up a toxic load of progesterone and it is blocking your estrogen reception at some point. Every month you do the P you overload your liver more (http://rhythmicliving.org/?page_id=87 read this very very closely). The E is a stunningly heavy load too, but there are way more E receptors to use it than the P. Dr. Formby's huge concern about such high doses of P is the safely of the organs. Find any molecular biologist and they will simply not believe that you have been using such high doses and are still alive. They will be absolutely shocked and equally as shocked that any pharmacist and doctor have anything to do with such a stunningly high dose protocol. If not a molecular biologist, then find an endocrinologist, someone with real training about the endocrine system, not a PA and not an oncologist (cancer doc). Or read the archives of this group and find the stories of women who upped their E over and over and managed to get deeper and deeper into the big muddy. Read the stories on the website. Read the archives. Yes, this is harsh, take it as tough love, you need to wake up.LaurelI am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this protocol not make me bleed??? Thanks,Terri

[Guest guest]

Damn, I wish I could stay sill long enough to proofread. Sorry for the goofs. Today I'm packing to take a trip to Istanbul! Heading out later today.Excited! LaurelYES!!! YES!!! YES!!!! The doses you are taking are not just dangerous, they are what Bent Formby, PhD., calls an nuclear blast to the endocrine system. Read LG's story http://rhythmicliving.org/?page_id=20 The doses are so high that the NIH wouldn't allow the equivalent doses to be used on mice as it would be considered flat out animal abuse. Do you have any sense of how high? If normal scientifically published BHRT were a cup of coffee, then the dose of the WP is equivalent to 20 of those huge coffee dispensers you see in a cafeteria!!!!! And BTW, when you do less than the P in the back of the book, Wiley says you are no longer on the WP. Sounds like they have changed their tune, or your PA is now not doing the official WP? Oh well, it's all crazy no matter how low you go at this point because it's all overloading your system and normal testing no longer applies. Try testing your urine and there you'll find the evidence of the crush your body is going through. Test your growth hormone levels, they will be in the bits. Test your blood sugar levels while doing the P. It's astonishing to me and my mother that women continue to go on the WP when there is well documented information on the internet now about the negative effects of it. When I went on the WP, there was nothing and no one had done any work to comb through the crazy references in the book, and Dr. Formby was no where to be seen. I started the group to gather information. I put together the first documentation for the protocol. I ran this group to help women get information. When we did everything EXACTLY the way Wiley said to do it, we all crashed and burned. Read the archives!!! Go back to April 2005.Now there is ample information online with loads of individual stories and still women dive seeking the silver bullet!! You are building up a toxic load of progesterone and it is blocking your estrogen reception at some point. Every month you do the P you overload your liver more (http://rhythmicliving.org/?page_id=87 read this very very closely). The E is a stunningly heavy load too, but there are way more E receptors to use it than the P. Dr. Formby's huge concern about such high doses of P is the safely of the organs. Find any molecular biologist and they will simply not believe that you have been using such high doses and are still alive. They will be absolutely shocked and equally as shocked that any pharmacist and doctor have anything to do with such a stunningly high dose protocol. If not a molecular biologist, then find an endocrinologist, someone with real training about the endocrine system, not a PA and not an oncologist (cancer doc). Or read the archives of this group and find the stories of women who upped their E over and over and managed to get deeper and deeper into the big muddy. Read the stories on the website. Read the archives. Yes, this is harsh, take it as tough love, you need to wake up.LaurelI am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this protocol not make me bleed??? Thanks,Terri

[Guest guest]

Istanbul? Don't forget to smell the roses--it's harvest season for

those who farm roses for their aromatic oils and waters. One of my EO

suppliers used to live in Isparta, a big rose farming area and he has

the most awesome rose otto I've ever run into.

Deb

>

>

>

> Damn, I wish I could stay sill long enough to proofread.   Sorry for the

goofs.  Today I'm packing to take a trip to Istanbul!    Heading out later

today.

>

> Excited!

> Laurel

>

[Guest guest]

My husband is from Istanbul...

Terri>>>> Damn, I wish I could stay sill long enough to proofread. Sorry for the goofs. Today I'm packing to take a trip to Istanbul! Heading out later today.>> Excited!> Laurel>

[Guest guest]

Laurel,

I had read that article a couple of years ago. It seemed to mainly focus on overdoses of progesterone..not estradiol. I BARELY use P..I use high doses of estadiol..but I do use some to "protect" my uterus from "unopposed E". When my periods stopped in '07, I was HIT like a brick wall because of NO E! My FSH was 63. CONSTANT hot flashes, night sweats, NO sleep for years, NO sex drive..AND my bloodwork showed that my body was aging FAST inside AND outside. After E in high doses, all that and more reversed. My FSH in April this year was down to 27. I definately look younger at almost 51 than when I was 30..I will attach a picture and you can tell me if I look my age, and the fact that I have had nine babies. I just can't seem to handle transdermal cream P. I did fine on Prometrium..which is an oral form

of P..which I'm sure you already know. I can't find any studies done with BHRT to see if they have studied "how high is too high" with E and was wondering. I would "assume" that if it is the same structure of E as my ovaries made before, how can it be bad..considering that I do not have signs of excess?

Terri

I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this protocol not

make me bleed???

Thanks,

Terri

1 of 1 Photo(s)

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

Thanks for the input..I did ask the PA about Prometrium and that's when she said the stuff about needing enough E to feel good on the P. I found your experience very interesting. I wonder if there is ANY way to totally "protect" one's uterus. I am thinking that if after this cycle I just might insist on prometrium again..hopefully I can find a GREAT MD that REALLY understands BHRT and is accessible.

Thanks!

Terri

I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this

protocol not make me bleed???

Thanks,

Terri

[Guest guest]

Terri,

Have you

considered Uzzi Reiss? I know a couple of ladies that go to him and LOVE him. I’m

sure there are the ones, though, that don’t. J I don’t know about totally

protecting the uterus. The body is so complex and we are so individual. Your PA

needs to listen to you. You did fine with Prometrium so why not try it again?

If she is so stuck on the WP and their way thinking and is not willing to help

you, I would run fast from her. Are you static dosing? If so, maybe trying a rhythm

again will get your body back on track. Oh, are you doing the blood work? What

have your numbers been on day 12 and 21? When I was on double E, my blood level

was 100! My P never got over 4 and that was only once. So I was not absorbing

and just taxing my liver trying to detox all the hormones and the toxins in the

creams. Have you considered doing some sort of liver cleanse? I wished I had

done things differently while on the WP.

Liz

From:

rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of Terri Cemail

Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 7:52 AM

To: rhythmicliving

Subject: RE: How high is safe?

Hi Liz,

Thanks for the input..I did ask the PA about Prometrium and that's when she

said the stuff about needing enough E to feel good on the P. I found

your experience very interesting. I wonder if there is ANY way to

totally " protect " one's uterus. I am thinking that if after

this cycle I just might insist on prometrium again..hopefully I can find a

GREAT MD that REALLY understands BHRT and is accessible.

Thanks!

Terri

I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I

have been working on getting this WP to " work " for me for

almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on

the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough,

that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11

mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started

WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great

on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency

come back. When I " up " my dose of E2..the symptoms go

away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that

if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also

state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the

50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would

stop me from bleeding???? Why does this protocol not make me

bleed???

Thanks,

Terri

[Guest guest]

Liz,

I do cycle E and P. Well, my E has been around 300..and P was around 2 If you look at what blood levels are supposed to be on WP to have a period..my levels are not there yet. I thought the creams by-passed the liver? Uzzi Reiss is in LA, and I am in Illinois, and can't go to LA anytime soon! Or I would see him.

Terri

I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this

protocol not make me bleed???

Thanks,

Terri

[Guest guest]

Terri,

My

understanding is the body still has to process the hormones and ingredients in

the cream. They won’t go through the first by pass but they still have to be

processed.

Oh, yes,

CA is a bit of a drive from IL J

Liz

From:

rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On

Behalf Of Terri Cemail

Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:19 PM

To: rhythmicliving

Subject: RE: How high is safe?

Liz,

I do cycle E

and P. Well, my E has been around 300..and P was around 2 If you

look at what blood levels are supposed to be on WP to have a period..my

levels are not there yet. I thought the creams by-passed the

liver? Uzzi Reiss is in LA, and I am in Illinois, and can't go to LA

anytime soon! Or I would see him.

Terri

I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I

have been working on getting this WP to " work " for me for

almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on

the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high

enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now

up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I

started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can

feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of

deficiency come back. When I " up " my dose of E2..the

symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above

statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle

P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original

full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP.

Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this

protocol not make me bleed???

Thanks,

Terri

[Guest guest]

Dr. Reiss seems a dear and wise man and wow, does he look healthy!! He, his wife, the patients he had who accompanied him; everyone looked amazing. I met him back in 2005 when one of Reiss' patients paid for him to do a video taped interview with Wiley at private home in the Santa Barbara hills. Apparently Wiley had made derogatory comments about Reiss (well, I heard them too so it isn't apparently) and the patient wanted to see them have a conversation. I coached Wiley how to avoid being abrasive prior to the taped conversation. After the gathering I pointed out to Caren and Wiley that the three of us were puffy and unhealthy looking and Uzzi and his people all looked amazing. I didn't think any of us were in a place to say the WP was amazing. That was late January, early February of that year. By April I put on the breaks and turned RL into a recovery group for the WP. Makes me laugh to think how open I was with them, projecting my own curiosity and openness to wherever the truth lead.... Anyway, Dr. Reiss seems to pay attention to women's feedback. My mother said that whenever she was bleeding too much (during the post WP years) she always turned to Dr. Reiss' writing; his comments soothed her worries. LaurelHi Terri,Dr. Reiss does phone consults. I live in London and use him. It works well for me!Nora Sent from my iPhoneLiz, I do cycle E and P. Well, my E has been around 300..and P was around 2 If you look at what blood levels are supposed to be on WP to have a period..my levels are not there yet. I thought the creams by-passed the liver? Uzzi Reiss is in LA, and I am in Illinois, and can't go to LA anytime soon! Or I would see him. Terri I am wondering if having high doses of E2 is dangerous? I have been working on getting this WP to "work" for me for almost a year. I do not get a period..but I have had spotting on the higher doses. My PA now tells me that if my E2 is high enough, that I will not get the bad side effects of P. I am now up to 11 mgs of E2 twice a day for a BASE dose of WP. When I started WP, I did have signs of excess E2..now I do not. I can feel great on E2, but then find that my night sweats and other signs of deficiency come back. When I "up" my dose of E2..the symptoms go away. Do you think this PA is correct in the above statement that if I have enough E2 that I would be able to handle P? I must also state that I am on 50% P of WP..not the original full dose..and even the 50% gave me trouble, so I take 25% of P of WP. Just wondering what would stop me from bleeding???? Why does this protocol not make me bleed??? Thanks,Terri