Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered people

[Guest guest]

Deb,

I would be very interested in what you find out. I had the depo shot 17 yrs ago..I only had it once, and when it was time for me to get another(I chose not to), I bled for 3 months straight! My Dr at the time told me that if it didn't stop by the end of the 3rd month that I would need a D & C..fortunately it stopped. I did get pregnant a couple of months after that..but it ended in miscarriage..called a "blighted ovum". To this day I feel that the miscarriage was caused by the Depo shot..Drs that I have suggested this to tend to agree with me, but no proof. I did have 3 more successful pregnancies after that "blighted ovum miscarriage". Also, before Depo, I had 6 successful pregnancies..so the Depo does look like the likely cause for the problem. I had gained weight on Depo, had swollen joints, and became allergic to penicillin 3 wks after

getting the shot. Makes one wonder...

Terri

Subject: Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Tuesday, June 22, 2010, 3:56 PM

I was sending Estrogel to a MTF trans woman and prometrium until she could get with a doctor who was going to help her in her new location. The BID application of Estrogel worked very well for her but the addition of prometrium 100mg daily somehow helped her use the estrogel in a more thorough way. It worked very very well for her for several months. Honestly (and what do I really know..probably not much about this) I think the bio-identical hormones are far superior if one is worried about her health. > >> > >> > >> > >> I have to admit that I did complain about mine..heavy, heavy bleeding, cramps came back, etc. Now I wish I had it back!!! Why do you not trust WP causing it? Doesn't that mean that your hormones are balanced enough to allegedly "protect" you? I understand the "P" problems..but seriously, look at the trans-gender people..they take TONS of hormones, and they keep their health? Maybe we need more hormones??? Just thinking out loud..I'm sure that I am clueless!!> >> > >> Terri> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > > > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

So, I guess the answer is simple--theymust do it to live, live in the sense where they have a life worthliving rather than existing in the misery of having a body that theirmind says shouldn't be as it is, living without the daily remindersthat Mother Nature pulled one of her dirtiest tricks on them.

*******

Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.

Gael

[Guest guest]

Hiya Laurel; it's always good to hear from you.

While putting this together I stuck to the facts--I made sure that I

differentiated between the sweetness-and-light BS that tends to come

with reading sites that are put up by people who either make money or

have some other interest in making themselves or their products and

services look good and those people actually stating facts based on

their experience or their use of science. Nothing ticks me off more

than people feeding other people BS for the sake of selling

something--like, um, oh, books and unstudied treatments prescribed by

unqualified people who just thought it sounded like a cool idea and

haven't got a scientific leg to stand on... not that any of us have

ever seen that :> Anyhow, I looked for facts, not garbage. Also keep

in mind that I'm just a 45 year old woman who happens to be able to

find her way around the Interwebs--I'm no one special, no doctor, just

someone willing to dig around when things interest me for one reason

or another. It's taken me awhile to write this, mostly due to cutting

down the smaller details and making sure that what I found that got me

going on this was backed up. TransGenderCare.com contains a lot of

unbiased information, and throwing some search words into Google will

get you nearly all the sites I went to while getting this ready.

Your info on Depo-Provera is right on--many can't handle the

injections long-term due to excessive bleeding, weight gain,

depression, blood pressure changes and other illnesses that range in

rarity, like the woman you met who needed breast reduction. Let me add

that I'm one of the lucky ones--aside from an occasional breast ache,

especially in confining clothing, I do well on the injections--this is

the first time it's been more than a couple of weeks before my cycle

started up again.

To Terri: I didn't specifically look for info on DepoProvera beyond

its use in sex reassignment, but if you throw the words DepoProvera

into Google or any search engine I'm sure you'll come up with plenty

on both sides of the issue of its interference with future fertility.

But enough about me--back to what I was reading.

I found quite a bit of info backed with science on using progestagens

as a secondary treatment for breast formation. You're accurate

again--estrogen alone would produce the first stage of female breasts

(along with the ouch that accompanies) but P was sometimes added to

enhance the results. Even with P, about 50% of patients were not

satisfied with what the hormones produced and augmented breast

development with surgical enhancement. Most accept that idea; there is

at least one study that says P has nothing to do with helping a

transgendered person develop breasts, but it's one that needs further

study to really prove the results, since the paper with that theory

didn't run a double-blind study or a study with controls.

The use of P in treating Gender Identity Disorder for men who need to

be women did mention " 'unopposed action of estrogens' (by

progestagens) would constitute a risk factor for carcinomas of the

breast and there are epidemiological data in support of this. " I know

there's extensive information in RL's archives on this and all I can

add to the wealth of information already here is that only three cases

of breast cancer have been reported in Male to Female (MTF)

transsexuals, and the doctors writing one of the papers I read had

never seen one themselves in 25+ years at their clinic. The paper also

noted that this clinic was especially careful to see that MTF patients

who had had breast augmentation surgery were checked especially well,

as breast implants can hinder the usual Breast Self-Examination

process or the usual process used by doctors in breast examination.

P is also used in the treatment of Gender Identity Disorder in women

who feel that they should be male. Many Female to Male transsexuals

lose their periods when they begin male hormones, an ideal result for

FTM trans people, but for those who don't, P-containing injections and

oral medications are given.

As far as the general health issues involved in hormones' role in

sexual reassignment, it's not without its cautions and warning, just

as it is in non-trans individuals. The doctors writing one of the

papers I read placed Female to Male (FTM) transsexuals in the same

heart disease risk group as men due to the use of androgens in the sex

reassignment process. I've already mentioned the risk assumed in using

E without P in MTF trans patients, but there are also warnings about

the increased risk of blood clots. There are other warnings mentioned

in the paper (provided on the website both for information for

patients and as another place to show the published paper the doctors

at that clinic wrote) but the information provided is far from looking

like there are no risks or dangers involved in the use of hormones in

treating Gender Identity Disorder by the use of sex reassignment.

So, transgendered people being treated for the condition of having

their mental gender mis-match their genetics seem to face many of the

same problems that someone of their desired sex would have from taking

the same substances. I couldn't find studies detailing exactly how

much hormone treatments do affect people being given sex reassignment

treatment but did find a lot of other studies on other treatment

issues, so who knows why the research hasn't been done yet? It could

be that no one's interested in funding that particular set of studies

yet, or there could be tons of other reasons, just as there are in

researching other medical conditions.

No one has asked, but what I found does beg the question of why

someone would take these risks from the hormones alone, let alone the

other procedures involved in sex reassignment. It helps to remember

that someone who has Gender Identity Disorder is thoroughly tested to

be sure that they truly have the brain and mindset of the gender

opposite the ones detailed in their chromosomes, and most have it to

the point that there is no life for them as Nature put them into the

world--they desperately need the help provided by the treatments

available now for the condition. I can't speak to whether or not these

people are as desperate as someone miserable enough in menopause to

try something like WP, but some of the mental health statistics and

personal stories I found do show more than a small tendency toward

suicide in those who cannot obtain treatment or who have had treatment

discontinued for some reason, again not quantified but shown in large

amounts of anecdotal evidence. So, I guess the answer is simple--they

must do it to live, live in the sense where they have a life worth

living rather than existing in the misery of having a body that their

mind says shouldn't be as it is, living without the daily reminders

that Mother Nature pulled one of her dirtiest tricks on them.

I know this ran long but anyone who knows me knows I tend to babble,

but I also tend to answer as thoroughly as I can manage. I hope it

helps.

Deb

>

>

>

> Just took off my gardening gloves and sat down here for a wee break.

>

> Back in the spring/summer of '05 a bunch of us were looking at what happened

to women who got Depo-Provera shots; some couldn't stop bleeding, some lost

their periods for ages, and some also had problems with developing massive

breast growth (I recall a woman in Dr. Vliet's office told me she had to have

breast reduction surgery after depo-provera). Of course lots of sickness went

along with the shots. Read the black label on the box. I might have posted it

here long ago. Can't remember.

>

> Another thing we looked into was the male to female transgender crowd. I

vaguely recall that estrogen created breast buds, but to get significant breast

growth required progesterone. This is hand waving at this point. I'm not posting

references so don't take this as fact unless you have some decent references. We

have to be very careful here to qualify our statements. I'm posting this in case

it spurs on your research. If you find good references, please post them.

>

> Laurel

>

[Guest guest]

Soap brains! Now that sounds VERY cool.

Thank you for the nice response.

Best to you, and everyone,

Gael

Very cool thinking Gael--thanks for giving me more ideas to work ononce I'm set for my next art show--speaking of body alterations, I'mmaking soap brains--in loads of colors and scents, for the zombielovers in the crowd I'll be showing to.Deb

[Guest guest]

I get you Gael--no matter why someone hates their body (and as a

chronic pain patient with three disorders I do have some issues in

that direction myself, since my body quits long before my mind or the

demands of life in general are ready for me to stop moving and rest)

it's entirely possible that it's happening with a similar brain or

body product that affects the brain that supports the mindset. I've

read of trans people who were driven to removing offending body parts

with self-surgery because they couldn't get or couldn't afford the

reassignment surgeries--anorexics, bulimics and other eating

disordered individuals do hurt themselves with their struggles to make

their body match the one they want to see, and I can't begin to count

how many times someone's tempted me to use an illegal drug because one

of the things it does is remove pain awareness--at least until the

drug wears off.

I know you're not one to make light of this or any way someone may

feel--and I think you have a really interesting point, one that I'll

be making notes of several kinds to see if anyone else has at least

pondered the idea, or possibly attempted to study it. There's a lot of

reasons people don't like what's outside their insides, and it's a

logical direction to think to wonder if there's an organic reason that

groups these highly different conditions together, at least from the

standpoint that they all involve being revolted by one's own body.

Very cool thinking Gael--thanks for giving me more ideas to work on

once I'm set for my next art show--speaking of body alterations, I'm

making soap brains--in loads of colors and scents, for the zombie

lovers in the crowd I'll be showing to.

Deb

>

> Something struck me when reading this.  I have huge sympathy for these people

and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having

a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this

is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing

in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind.  I wonder if there is some

chemical makeup in the brain that is similar.  I truly am not making light of

anyone or anything by saying this.

>

> Gael

>

>

[Guest guest]

I personally blame the American Healthcare system. The Ins Co's need to spend waaay more money on benefits for mental health..if the mind is treated, the body will follow..IMHO.

Terri>> Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.>> Gael>>

[Guest guest]

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough.

Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do

you, yet you make this statement.

Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure

of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear

and simple.

Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report

published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This

particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something

most know nothing about or want to.

Go here for the document:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034

Please reconsider your words....

Jerri

>

> >

> > Something struck me when reading this.  I have huge sympathy for these

people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of

having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that

this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are

seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind.  I wonder if there

is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar.  I truly am not making

light of anyone or anything by saying this.

> >

> > Gael

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, it is not a birth defect. Trans-sexual males have more somatostatin-expressing neurons not because of a birth "defect" but rather by neurogenesis. You think therefore you become, a scientifically proven fact.

Rodents grow neurons in certain areas of the brain depending on the type of stimulation. Taxi drivers in London actually grow a huge segment of new brain tissue due to the knowledge of the complicated streets. Did they have that segment of brain and then become taxi drivers? No, that segment grew after the fact.

-Celty

Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered people

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough. Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do you, yet you make this statement.Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear and simple. Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something most know nothing about or want to.Go here for the document: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034Please reconsider your words....Jerri> > >> > Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> >> > Gael> >> >>

[Guest guest]

J,

Not meant to insult anyone..no, I do not "know" about transgenders..however, I would imagine that a "body" is a "body"..and using hormones to "change" one's sex hormones to "match" their "inside" feelings has some consequences. I still feel that Ins Co's do NOT care about mental health. That being said, transgenders MUST start somewhere to pursue their intent, and a MD that specializes in this most likely would be started with a psychiatrist..hence my mention of "mental health?.

Terri

Subject: Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 12:56 PM

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough. Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do you, yet you make this statement.Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear and simple. Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something most know nothing about or want to.Go here for the document: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034Please reconsider your words....Jerri> > >> > Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> >> > Gael> >> >>

[Guest guest]

Neurognesis, your hypothesis, I think therefore I am, an interesting and novel approach but do not think so.In short, our findings seem to support the hypothesis that the somatostatinergic sex differences, the female number of SOM neurons in the BSTc of the male-to-female transsexual brain and the male number of SOM neurons in the BSTc of the FMT are not the result of changes of sex hormone levels in adulthood. Instead, the neuronal differences are likely to have been established earlier during developmentTaking into account the aforementioned limitations of our studies, the

present

study of SOM neurons in the human BSTc provides unequivocal new

data supporting the view that transsexualism may reflect a form of

brain hermaphroditism such that this limbic nucleus itself

is structurally sexually differentiated opposite to the transsexual’s

genetic and genital sex.just my 2 cents........but interesting idea..............> > > > >> > > Something struck me when reading this.� I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind.� I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar.� I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> > >> > > Gael> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Terri,Transsexual must following guidelines as identified by WPATH to begin hormone therapy and for reassignment surgery. This require a great deal of mental health intervention which may or may not be covered by insurance. But rest assured that mental health intervention is required...............see the following guidelines........Professional involvement with patients with gender identity disorders involves any of

the following:Diagnostic assessmentPsychotherapyReal life experienceHormonal therapySurgical therapy.

The Roles of the Mental Health Professional with the Gender Patient. Mental

health professionals (MHP) who work with individuals with gender identity disorders may be

regularly called upon to carry out many of these responsibilities: To accurately diagnose the individual's gender disorder according to

either the DSM-IV or

ICD-10 nomenclatureTo accurately diagnose any co-morbid psychiatric conditions and see to their appropriate treatmentTo counsel the individual about the range of treatment options and their implicationsTo engage in psychotherapyTo ascertain eligibility and readiness for hormone and surgical therapyTo make formal recommendations to medical and surgical colleaguesTo document their patient's relevant history in a letter of recommendationTo be a colleague on a team of professionals with interest in the gender identity

disordersTo educate family members, employers, and institutions about gender identity

disordersTo be available for follow-up of previously seen gender patients.

The Training of Mental Health ProfessionalsThe Adult-Specialist basic clinical competence in diagnosis and treatment of mental or emotional disordersthe basic clinical training may occur within any formally credentialing discipline--for

example, psychology, psychiatry, social work, counseling, or nursing. recommended minimal credentials for special competence with the gender identity

disorders:master's degree or its equivalent in a clinical behavioral science field granted by an

institution accredited by a recognized national or regional accrediting boardspecialized training and competence in the assessment of the DSM-IV/ICD-10 Sexual

Disorders (not simply gender identity disorders)documented supervised training and competence in psychotherapycontinuing education in the treatment of gender identity disorders The Child-Specialisttraining in childhood and adolescent developmental psychopathology. competence in diagnosing and treating the ordinary problems of children and

adolescents The Differences between Eligibility and Readiness Criteria for Hormones or Surgery. Eligibility--the specified criteria that must be documented before moving to a next

step in a triadic therapeutic sequence (real life experience, hormones, and surgery)Readiness--the specified criteria that rest upon the clinician's judgment prior to

taking the next step in a triadic therapeutic sequence

The Mental Health Professional's Documentation Letters for Hormones or Surgery

Should Succinctly Specify:The patient's general identifying characteristicsThe initial and evolving gender, sexual, and other psychiatric diagnosesThe duration of their professional relationship including the type of psychotherapy or

evaluation that the patient underwentThe eligibility criteria that have been met and the MHP's rationale for hormones or

surgeryThe patient's ability to follow the Standards of Care to date and the likelihood of future

complianceWhether the author of the report is part of a gender team or is working without benefit of an

organized team approachThe offer of receiving a phone call to verify that the documentation

letter is authentic

One-Letter is Required for Instituting Hormone Treatment; Two-Letters are Required for SurgeryTwo separate letters of recommendation from mental health professionals who work alone

without colleagues experienced with gender identity disorders are required for surgery andIf the first letter is from a person with a master's degree, the second letter should be from a

psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist--those who can be expected to adequately evaluate

co-morbid psychiatric conditions. If the first letter is from the patient's psychotherapist, the second letter should be from a

person who has only played an evaluative role for the patient. Each letter writer, however, is

expected to cover the same seven elements One letter with two signatures is acceptable if the mental health professionals conduct

their tasks and periodically report on these processes to a team of other mental health

professionals and nonpsychiatric physicians. Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 12:56 PM

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough. Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do you, yet you make this statement.Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear and simple. Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something most know nothing about or want to.Go here for the document: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034Please reconsider your words....Jerri> > >> > Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> >> > Gael> >> >>

[Guest guest]

I have read, that after conception, that there is a brief(24-48 hr)period when a pregnant woman if carrying a XY fetus, will have a rush of testosterone. IF she is under undue stress, or for whatever reason does not produce that "rush', the fetus that "should" be a "boy", will externally be a boy, but the hypothesis is that the "boy" will feel like a female mentally. Seeing as ALL embyros start out as female..it gives credibility to the understanding of MTF transgenders, and all that feel that they were "meant" to be the opposite sex of which they were raised. I had previously felt that this belief was a mental confusion until I had read this.

Terri

PS. That is the power of hormones...

Subject: Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 2:24 PM

Neurognesis, your hypothesis, I think therefore I am, an interesting and novel approach but do not think so.In short, our findings seem to support the hypothesis that the somatostatinergic sex differences, the female number of SOM neurons in the BSTc of the male-to-female transsexual brain and the male number of SOM neurons in the BSTc of the FMT are not the result of changes of sex hormone levels in adulthood. Instead, the neuronal differences are likely to have been established earlier during developmentTaking into account the aforementioned limitations of our studies, the present study of SOM neurons in the human BSTc provides unequivocal new data supporting the view that transsexualism may reflect a form of brain hermaphroditism such that this limbic nucleus itself is structurally sexually differentiated opposite to the transsexual’s

genetic and genital sex.just my 2 cents....... .but interesting idea........ ......> > > >

>> > > Something struck me when reading this.� I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind.� I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar.� I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> > >> > > Gael> > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Jerri,

Again, that is why I stated my CONCERN about mental health benefits, or lack of them from insurance companies. Insurance companies do not want to pay for mental health care across the board. My feelings are that if you treat the eating disorder..no more obesity..treat the addict..no more liver failure..etc. They slap on band-aids in the form of antidepressants instead of which Ins co's hardly pay for them also. Such a shame.

Terri

PS. Thanks for the informative post.

From: J <jerripipeline (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving@ yahoogroups. comDate: Friday, July 2, 2010, 12:56 PM

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough. Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do you, yet you make this statement.Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear and simple. Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something most know nothing about or want to.Go here for the document: http://jcem. endojournals. org/cgi/content/ full/85/5/ 2034Please reconsider your words....Jerri> > >> > Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> >> > Gael> >> >>

[Guest guest]

American insurance companies have about a 3% profit.  From where should they get all the money for

spending on mental health?  Insurance

should cover unexpected, catastrophic incidents. 

Val

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of Terri Cemail

I

personally blame the American Healthcare system. The Ins Co's need to

spend waaay more money on benefits for mental

health..if the mind is treated, the body will follow..IMHO.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Very interesting. Thank you for the research.

Gael

Sorry, it is not a birth defect. Trans-sexual males have more somatostatin-expressing neurons not because of a birth "defect" but rather by neurogenesis. You think therefore you become, a scientifically proven fact.

Rodents grow neurons in certain areas of the brain depending on the type of stimulation. Taxi drivers in London actually grow a huge segment of new brain tissue due to the knowledge of the complicated streets. Did they have that segment of brain and then become taxi drivers? No, that segment grew after the fact.

-Celty

Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered people

OK I have watched this thread and not said a thing, but enough is enough. Terri your comment is beyond the pale, you really do not know the subject do you, yet you make this statement.Did you realize that male to female transsexual in fact has the brain structure of a natal female, that this is not a mental issue. It is a birth defect clear and simple. Please do not accept my word for this, but go read the following report published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. This particular document was published in 2000, so this is not new, simply something most know nothing about or want to.Go here for the document: http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/2034Please reconsider your words....Jerri> > >> > Something struck me when reading this. I have huge sympathy for these people and their situation, but when I read your line about about the misery of having a body that their mind says shouldn't be as it is, it occurred to me that this is how anorexics feel about their bodies as well, as if the body they are seeing in the mirror isn't the body that is in their mind. I wonder if there is some chemical makeup in the brain that is similar. I truly am not making light of anyone or anything by saying this.> >> > Gael> >> >>

[Guest guest]

I understood what you meant, Terri, and how you meant it. It didn't seem disrespectful to me.

Gael

J,

Not meant to insult anyone..no, I do not "know" about transgenders..however, I would imagine that a "body" is a "body"..and using hormones to "change" one's sex hormones to "match" their "inside" feelings has some consequences. I still feel that Ins Co's do NOT care about mental health. That being said, transgenders MUST start somewhere to pursue their intent, and a MD that specializes in this most likely would be started with a psychiatrist..hence my mention of "mental health?.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Val,

Maybe you should tell that to uninsured illegal immigrants??? Mental health is imperative to whole body health.

Terri

Subject: RE: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 4:22 PM

American insurance companies have about a 3% profit. From where should they get all the money for spending on mental health? Insurance should cover unexpected, catastrophic incidents.

Val

From: rhythmicliving@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:rhythmicliv ingyahoogroups (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Terri Cemail

I personally blame the American Healthcare system. The Ins Co's need to spend waaay more money on benefits for mental health..if the mind is treated, the body will follow..IMHO.

Terri

[Guest guest]

Thanks Gael..I appreciate being understood.)

Terri

Subject: Re: Re: Hormone treatments for transgendered peopleTo: rhythmicliving Date: Friday, July 2, 2010, 9:59 PM

I understood what you meant, Terri, and how you meant it. It didn't seem disrespectful to me.

Gael

In a message dated 7/2/2010 9:07:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, terri4320yahoo (DOT) com writes:

J,

Not meant to insult anyone..no, I do not "know" about transgenders. .however, I would imagine that a "body" is a "body"..and using hormones to "change" one's sex hormones to "match" their "inside" feelings has some consequences. I still feel that Ins Co's do NOT care about mental health. That being said, transgenders MUST start somewhere to pursue their intent, and a MD that specializes in this most likely would be started with a psychiatrist. .hence my mention of "mental health?.

Terri