Re: New Information from Cardiologist

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Well...the strange part about the stomach thing is apart from people who

actually have Afib there indeed seems to be very little coming from the medical

community about this, i've searched websites and as you say most doctors

seem to believe there's no way there could be a link.

The strange part is that my GP actually told me he thought it was probably

due to me having a cascade stomach and the reflux stuff.

And when my causin was in hospital where they put her back into NSR the cardio

also told her it might be because of the stomach acting up in a big way.

Like me she is,apart from the occasional Afib runs, always in NSR and there is

no sign of Afib normally...so maybe the stomach thing i more related to the

lone

paroxysmal and not to 'normal' Afib.

I have little information about cascade stomachs, apart from a vague

description

my doc gave me but i did come across this URL.

http://www.medun.acad.bg/medun/Abstracts/abs496.htm

Which states: " In a random sample of 396 patients with stomach complaints,

54 were found to have cascade stomach (overall frequency 13.6). The analysis

of the results showed the leading cause of this condition to be adhesion of

the

front costal diaphragm sinus. "

Now i'm not but the " costal diaphragm sinus " is very close to the heart

i believe.

And maybe xx % of those who have a cascade stomach, or other anatomical

disformation to the stomach go into Afib because of it.

I have no idea if anything can be done about it.

I did have a errrr.....the tube/camera down the throat thing..and they told

me all was

fine. But in a local hospital they did the X-ray with barium of my stomach

and that

did reveal the cascade stomach...

According to my GP the X-ray is far more reliable for things like this.

So maybe a X-ray would be a good thing ask about.

Because my causin and i have the same thing and the same symptoms i'm very

curious if she has a cascade stomach too....but she never got her stomach

checked out and knowing her she will not have it checked out cause she doesn't

care too much about the Afib runs.

I always keep looking for other causes, and sometimes i see thing i go

'hey'...like

the connection with inflammation.

But i'm pretty sure it's the stomach for me.

Take care,

Willem

At 00:06 29-12-2001 -0500, you wrote:

>Anyway, of interest to me and possibly to others here, was his statement that

>afib can indeed be caused by stomach problems in some people! This is the

>first time I have heard any doctor validate in either spoken or written word

>what so many of us here know to be absolutely true. My own brother (not the

>one in afib) who is a medical doctor has told me many times that this idea is

>ridiculous. Usually when I have told doctors in the past that I am sure

>there is a connection between afib and my stomach upheaval, I would be

>rewarded with a blank, uncomprehending stare or a patronizing " Really??!! "

>This noncommittal reaction would typically be followed by a hasty change in

>subject as if to prevent further embarrassingly ignorant conjecture from this

>upstart patient (me!) My new cardiologist is the first doctor to dignify my

>theory about the stomach/heart connection born of the experience of numerous

>afib bouts starting with stomach pains or gas.

>

>My gastroenterologists preliminary report

>after the procedure was that no problems were discovered there. Everything

>is " normal, normal, normal. " I don't know how this can be when my stomach

>symptoms so often seem abnormal, abnormal abnormal! However, he did do some

>scraping and biopsy, apparently looking for some type of infection, I guess.

>So I won't give up on the stomach-afib connection yet. My dream is that he

>will discover some easily treatable stomach parasite or such which has been

>irritating my poor vagus nerve and driving me into afib. I guess it doesn't

>work that way in reality, but I can always dream.

> in afib in Seattle

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/01 12:07:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,

Starfi6314@... writes:

> Oh, and

> also he said that the printout from the ECG machine was wrong because it

> said

> " sinus arrhythmia, " but he said I was definitely in afib. His nurse

> described my pulse as " slightly irregular " when she took it. I mention

> this

> because I think this issue came up here once: whether ECG readings are

> ever

> wrong. He said the error was a computer error.

>

>

I think it would be more accurate to say that the computer's interpretation

of the ECG reading was wrong, not that the reading was wrong. I assume that

ECG machines are equipped with a program which does an automatic

interpretation of the results. However, becase ECGs are complex, a skillful

doctor may often disagree with the machine-produced results. I see nothing

extraordinary in this.

Victor

[Guest guest]

Can anyone tell me what cascade tummy feels like. I have had problems

on and off with my stomach. It feels like a cramping, bearing down

low in the abdomen which I initially muddled up with constipation. It

wasn't. I then put it down to irritable bowel.

It usually hits me in the mornings or the middle of the night. The

pain is so severe that it wakes me up and I have to get up.

I wonder if I should get this checked out.

Fran

> >Anyway, of interest to me and possibly to others here, was his

statement that

> >afib can indeed be caused by stomach problems in some people!

This is the

> >first time I have heard any doctor validate in either spoken or

written word

> >what so many of us here know to be absolutely true. My own

brother (not the

> >one in afib) who is a medical doctor has told me many times that

this idea is

> >ridiculous. Usually when I have told doctors in the past that I

am sure

> >there is a connection between afib and my stomach upheaval, I

would be

> >rewarded with a blank, uncomprehending stare or a

patronizing " Really??!! "

> >This noncommittal reaction would typically be followed by a hasty

change in

> >subject as if to prevent further embarrassingly ignorant

conjecture from this

> >upstart patient (me!) My new cardiologist is the first doctor to

dignify my

> >theory about the stomach/heart connection born of the experience

of numerous

> >afib bouts starting with stomach pains or gas.

> >

> >My gastroenterologists preliminary report

> >after the procedure was that no problems were discovered there.

Everything

> >is " normal, normal, normal. " I don't know how this can be when

my stomach

> >symptoms so often seem abnormal, abnormal abnormal! However, he

did do some

> >scraping and biopsy, apparently looking for some type of

infection, I guess.

> >So I won't give up on the stomach-afib connection yet. My dream

is that he

> >will discover some easily treatable stomach parasite or such which

has been

> >irritating my poor vagus nerve and driving me into afib. I guess

it doesn't

> >work that way in reality, but I can always dream.

> > in afib in Seattle

>

>

> _________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fran,

I don't think cascade stomach has to result in pain...

As for how it feels...bloating, too much air in the stomach...pressure

on the diaphram...tightness in the stomach area..

I think one of the problems with a cascade stomach is that it empties itself

in one go...opposed to the normal slow bit by bit process..

I do have cramps and pain down low, and every once in a while blood in my

feaces

for a week orso, but i don't think it's related to the cascade

stomach...but either

to IBS or krohns..or polips or whatever...no idea and i really don't feel

the need to

go to hospitals again to get a defnite answer on that one.

Take care

Willem

At 15:05 29-12-2001 +0000, you wrote:

>Can anyone tell me what cascade tummy feels like. I have had problems

>on and off with my stomach. It feels like a cramping, bearing down

>low in the abdomen which I initially muddled up with constipation. It

>wasn't. I then put it down to irritable bowel.

>

>It usually hits me in the mornings or the middle of the night. The

>pain is so severe that it wakes me up and I have to get up.

>

>I wonder if I should get this checked out.

_________________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks Willem

I can relate to that sometimes. I wish I had paid more attention

before the AF became chronic. Its hard now to tie it into anything.

Fran

> >Can anyone tell me what cascade tummy feels like. I have had

problems

> >on and off with my stomach. It feels like a cramping, bearing down

> >low in the abdomen which I initially muddled up with constipation.

It

> >wasn't. I then put it down to irritable bowel.

> >

> >It usually hits me in the mornings or the middle of the night. The

> >pain is so severe that it wakes me up and I have to get up.

> >

> >I wonder if I should get this checked out.

>

>

> _________________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/2001 10:15:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,

victortt@... writes:

<< I think it would be more accurate to say that the computer's

interpretation

of the ECG reading was wrong, not that the reading was wrong. I assume that

ECG machines are equipped with a program which does an automatic

interpretation of the results. However, becase ECGs are complex, a skillful

doctor may often disagree with the machine-produced results. I see nothing

extraordinary in this. >>

Victor, when I said that the problem was a computer error, I meant that the

computer program had misread the tracing of the EKG machine but my doctor

correctly interpreted the graph printed by the machine. At least in this

part of the country it is indeed extraordinary, I think, for a doctor to

disagree with computer-generated interpretations. Maybe you live among a

different breed of doctors in your territory, but I have only encountered one

doctor (other than my present cardiologist) in these parts who would question

test results. :-) That was my brother's doctor who made him have three

thyroid tests in three weeks time when the initial test showed that my

brother's thyroid level was low. Every subsequent test has shown his thyroid

level to be normal. If the doctor had operated exclusively on the results of

those first and second erroneous tests, he would have prescribed unnecessary

thyroid hormone for a person who was already in afib.

Perhaps it is not unusual for the computer to misread the ECG machine

tracings, but it's never happened before in my experience. On one occasion,

my former cardiologist, now retired, could not tell whether I was in afib or

sinus by taking my pulse. I couldn't tell either because the pulse was

almost regular at 70 beats per minute. The ECG test revealed that the

machine recorded afib at that time, and my cardiologist accepted that as

categorical proof, not questioning the computer printout. That reaction of

acceptance seems more standard among the doctors of my experience. My new

cardiologist seems to be a " different breed of cat. "

in afib in Seattle :-)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/29/01 5:27:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Starfi6314@... writes:

<< Perhaps it is not unusual for the computer to misread the ECG machine

tracings, but it's never happened before in my experience >>

, when my cardio was going over the thirty day heart monitor readings

with me, she noted on a number of them that the machine was wrong.

[Guest guest]

>

> Perhaps it is not unusual for the computer to misread the ECG machine

> tracings, but it's never happened before in my experience.

It's happened to me, on one occasion while I was on a 12 point ECG both the

computer and the junior doctor failed to spot Atrial Flutter. (The graph on

the ECG paper was correct but the interpretation of the graph wasn't)

> The ECG test revealed that the

> machine recorded afib at that time, and my cardiologist accepted that as

> categorical proof, not questioning the computer printout.

I've never seen an ECG machine that just prints an interpretation out - all

the ones I've been hooked to also plot the graphs. Any cardiologist will be

looking at the graph to confirm the results. - AFib is one of the easier

arrhythmias to spot because of the lack of p wave so even a cursory glance

may have been enough for an expert to spot the AFib.

--

D

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/30/2001 2:39:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,

james@... writes:

<< I've never seen an ECG machine that just prints an interpretation out - all

the ones I've been hooked to also plot the graphs. Any cardiologist will be

looking at the graph to confirm the results. - AFib is one of the easier

arrhythmias to spot because of the lack of p wave so even a cursory glance

may have been enough for an expert to spot the AFib.

>>

, I've never seen an ECG report without the plotting of the graph

either. The ECG machines of my experience plot the graph, and the computer

generates the printed analysis on the printout which the doctor reads. My

previous cardiologist, however, frequently seemed undecided about

interpretation of the graph in a number of respects, including whether or not

I was in afib. Also, he was on one occasion undecided about whether the

graph included a certain wave that would indicate that ablation would be

appropriate for me. He had to consult with an electrophysiologist on that

point. Apparently some doctors are not expert enough to read and make

autonomous decisions about ECG graphs.

in afib in Seattle

[Guest guest]

The kind of ECG I have plots out the graphs and also has a printed

interpretation in the top corner. However, my GP never agrees with it.

Fran

> In a message dated 12/30/2001 2:39:55 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> james@d... writes:

>

> << I've never seen an ECG machine that just prints an

interpretation out - all

> the ones I've been hooked to also plot the graphs. Any

cardiologist will be

> looking at the graph to confirm the results. - AFib is one of the

easier

> arrhythmias to spot because of the lack of p wave so even a

cursory glance

> may have been enough for an expert to spot the AFib.

> >>

> , I've never seen an ECG report without the plotting of the

graph

> either. The ECG machines of my experience plot the graph, and the

computer

> generates the printed analysis on the printout which the doctor

reads. My

> previous cardiologist, however, frequently seemed undecided about

> interpretation of the graph in a number of respects, including

whether or not

> I was in afib. Also, he was on one occasion undecided about

whether the

> graph included a certain wave that would indicate that ablation

would be

> appropriate for me. He had to consult with an electrophysiologist

on that

> point. Apparently some doctors are not expert enough to read and

make

> autonomous decisions about ECG graphs.

> in afib in Seattle