Re: seizures and AF

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your suggestions.

Nothing is known about my seizures. The EEG's I have had have come

back 'satisfactory', although there has been some 'abnormal activity

in the temporal lobe'. However, the neuro said that he did not think

there was a 'primary neurological disorder'. And epilepsy has been

ruled out. My husband and others can testify to the fact that I have

convulsions ( I couldn't)!!

I did have a 30 day event monitor. But it was not wired up all the

time. I was supposed to press it on my chest and manually press the

record button every time I had an episode of AF. But my seizures

happen when I am either falling asleep or waking up. And the time it

happened when I had the heart monitor, - I came through after and

was unable to move to get the monitor on the bedside table to take a

recording of what was happening immediately after. So it was lost.

They don't happen that often, but are so frightening. As you

suggested it might be some sort of hypnagogic hallucination mixed

with sleep paralysis and some sort of night time seizure. I had a

genetic test for narcolepsy which came back positive, but so do 25%

of the normal population. Also I have trouble sleeping, not staying

awake (and the classic narcolepsy symptom is dropping off to sleep

whenever, or wherever). I am getting a sleep study done sometime next

year. But I know that it is not a hallucination. I know I do not have

narcolepsy (my dad did - hence why I may have the gene).

I am so aware of what is happening in 'my tunnel' when it happens.

And I am so aware of my slow slow heart and trouble breathing after

wards and my brain filling back up with blood - regaining my brain

power to see what is going on in the room. I know that when the body

takes a seizure it puts enormous strain on the heart. So my worry is

that the seizure produces another sort of arrythmia.

I do suspect low blood pressure has a part to play. I have 'normal'

low blood pressure and it has got lower on meds. My usual reads about

90/40-50. So at night this would expect to go lower. I had suspected

I had something like vaso-vagal syncope or neurocardiogenic syncope.

But my GP says I don't present that way. But how on earth would they

know, they have never been there when it happens. I know it frightens

the living daylights out of my husband. All they can go on is the

recorded arrythmias which show plain old AF. That won't kill you they

say. No that might not, I worry about the other.

I have had AF for at least 15 years, possibly longer. There is

nothing structurally wrong with my heart. I was only diagnosed after

many years of thinking they were panic attacks. I jsut wish someone

who had this happen would chance across this post and get in touch so

we could compare notes.

Still doing remarkably better with out any neurotoxins (aspartame and

MSG) and have kept my atenolol at 12.5 mg daily (supposedly thats not

therapeutic). What a difference when you think at one stage I was on

120mg sotalol twice daily. I will try and stop the astenolol after

xmas and see how I get on. I am not so aware of my heart or AF on the

low dosage. In fact I don't think they are an hundredth as bad. And I

have tons more energy.

Has anyone else tried to cut out known neurotoxins from their diet?

It is working so well for me. Its difficult because they are added in

so many foods. You should try it. If it works for you the way it is

working for me it would be worth the effort.

Fran

> Hi, Fran,

>

> What is known about your seizures? Have you ever been wearing a

> heart monitor when one happens? Are they often enough, say once a

> month or more, so that they could give you a 30 day monitor to

catch

> them?

>

> I can toss in three ideas, based on stuff that has happened to me:

>

> 1. There is some sort of nighttime paralysis, I forget its name,

> where you wake up from some stage of sleep that people normally

stay

> asleep in, and you really can't move. You will come out of this,

but

> it is like being paralyzed, as you can only eventually move with

what

> seems like enormous effort and willpower.

>

> 2. I had something happen back when my old doc was telling me to

> ignore afib and exercise thru it, where I swear to God my heart

> stopped and I was breathing but the oxygen wasn't getting

anywhere.

> It scared me to death. Was that what really happened? I dunno -

> maybe it was a weird heart thing, maybe significant tachycardia (I

> had an episode of tachycardia the next day in the new doctor's

> office), or maybe it was the world's worst panic attack. It has

> never happened again, and I did come out of it.

>

> 3. Maybe you are having svt, super ventricular tachycardia, which

is

> much more debilitating than afib, but which also, I am assured,

> people come out of without any treatment. But you can lessen the

> likelihood of svt with meds.

>

> I think it is important to know what is actually happening when

these

> episodes occur, hence the heart monitor.

>

> Trudy

[Guest guest]

> I did have a 30 day event monitor. But it was not wired up all the

> time. I was supposed to press it on my chest and manually press the

> record button every time I had an episode of AF

Try to get the kind of thirty day monitor that is wired up all the

time. The other is pretty useless, IMHO.

[Guest guest]

Too late now for the other type of 30 day monitor!! My cardio says

there is no more he can do for me. So basically I just have to get on

with it. Besides I am allergic to the sticky patches, even the hypo

allerenic ones. Ever felt you were thrown on the scrap heap....?

I have done more to control my AF than the cardio. If I had listened

to him I would have been in a terrible state now on those sotalol. He

didn't want me to come off them! I am now controlling it with diet

and a minimum intake of the atenolol (12.5) and feel better and more

secure under my own supervision.

That went to pot today though. I had to have a local anestheic to get

two warts removed from my eyelid. 2 hours later I had a small AF for

two hours. I'm sure it was something in the anesthetic.

Has anyone else noticed if Dentist anesthetic or other local

anesthetic triggers AF?

Fran

> > I did have a 30 day event monitor. But it was not wired up all

the

> > time. I was supposed to press it on my chest and manually press

the

> > record button every time I had an episode of AF

>

> Try to get the kind of thirty day monitor that is wired up all the

> time. The other is pretty useless, IMHO.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/19/2001 3:09:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,

fross@... writes:

<< Has anyone else noticed if Dentist anesthetic or other local

anesthetic triggers AF? >>

Fran,

We had a lengthy discussion of this last summer before you joined when I was

facing a root canal with great trepidation and was whining here about my

fears. My fear arose from the fact that I had fainted before from Novocain

due to the fact that it contains epinephrine, a heart stimulant which can

cause tachycardia, palpitations, and other delightful cardiac abnormalities.

After the fainting episode, I chose to forego any anesthetic when having

dental work. Because a root canal is more traumatic than the average

filling, I had to have some kind of anesthetic. When I expressed my fears to

my dentist, he agreed to give me Carbocain 3 (I think) because that contains

no epinephrine. However, he found that he also needed to give me a very

small amount of an anesthetic containing a small amount of epinephrine

because the Carbocain would not be long lasting enough without the

epinephrine.

Although I was in afib when I had the root canal done, I didn't notice any

ill effects on my heart from the anesthetic. However, after the root canal I

stayed in afib for seven more days, making a total of ten consecutive days in

afib and setting a record for my longest afib session. I have no way of

telling if the anesthetic prolonged the afib episode because I also had to

take Amoxicillin to prevent infection. That drug could have caused the

lengthy afib episode. It certainly messed up my INR, which shot up to 4.5

while I was taking the Amoxicillin.

This is probably more information than you wanted, but it does suggest that

anesthetic, at least that containing epinephrine, can have an effect on the

heart.

in sinus in Seattle (Yes, I bounced back to sinus this morning and am

not so eagerly awaiting the next installment of afib.)

[Guest guest]

> Too late now for the other type of 30 day monitor!! My cardio says

> there is no more he can do for me. So basically I just have to get

on

> with it. Besides I am allergic to the sticky patches, even the hypo

> allerenic ones. Ever felt you were thrown on the scrap heap....?

Fran, I would consider insisting on the allthetime type of thirty day

monitor. I don't see how else you will find out about those seizure

things.

[Guest guest]

on Wed, 19 Dec 2001 at 23:04:33, fross2001 wrote :

>Has anyone else noticed if Dentist anesthetic or other local

>anesthetic triggers AF?

Local anaesthetics often have adrenalin (epinephrine) added to keep the

actual anaesthetic localised in the surrounding tissues. I have been

recommended to ask for non-adrenaline jabs if I go to the dentist. I

had my 13 amalgams replaced that way with no problems.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

London, UK, 1954 model

http://www.vagalafibportal.fsnet.co.uk/

" Wisdom is the quality that keeps you from getting into

situations where we need it " - Doug Larsen

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Guest guest]

We had a lengthy discussion of this last summer before you joined

when I was

> facing a root canal with great trepidation and was whining here

about my

> fears. My fear arose from the fact that I had fainted before from

Novocain

> due to the fact that it contains epinephrine, a heart stimulant

which can

> cause tachycardia, palpitations, and other delightful cardiac

abnormalities.

Wow I wish I had seen it. When I was in the treatment room I asked

about the anesthetic and said I had adverse reactions. I told him

that the dentist anesthetics caused me to have AF and seizures. He

said it was probably from anxiety about having the work done!!! I was

mad. I said if anything it is the other way round and it is what they

use that causes it. He went ahead and used it anyway. Now I was a bit

anxious, (who wouldn't be with a man about to put a needle into my

eyelid over my eyeball and then pull two warts out from under my

eylid and then cauterise (sp) them) but I was not in AF. That came on

afterwards. And of course that just compounds him to the fact that it

must be the anxiety that brings it on, - Couldn't possibly be

anything to do with epinepherine!!! (sarcasm). Luckily I didn't have

a seizure this time.

My dentist will not listen and now Dr's will not listen. I have a

mouth full of bad teeth as I am too afraid to go back to the dentist.

What does it take?? Complete abstinence from all supposed health

carers? ITs getting that way.

Fran

> In a message dated 12/19/2001 3:09:36 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> fross@e... writes:

>

> << Has anyone else noticed if Dentist anesthetic or other local

> anesthetic triggers AF? >>

> Fran,

> We had a lengthy discussion of this last summer before you joined

when I was

> facing a root canal with great trepidation and was whining here

about my

> fears. My fear arose from the fact that I had fainted before from

Novocain

> due to the fact that it contains epinephrine, a heart stimulant

which can

> cause tachycardia, palpitations, and other delightful cardiac

abnormalities.

> After the fainting episode, I chose to forego any anesthetic when

having

> dental work. Because a root canal is more traumatic than the

average

> filling, I had to have some kind of anesthetic. When I expressed

my fears to

> my dentist, he agreed to give me Carbocain 3 (I think) because that

contains

> no epinephrine. However, he found that he also needed to give me a

very

> small amount of an anesthetic containing a small amount of

epinephrine

> because the Carbocain would not be long lasting enough without the

> epinephrine.

>

> Although I was in afib when I had the root canal done, I didn't

notice any

> ill effects on my heart from the anesthetic. However, after the

root canal I

> stayed in afib for seven more days, making a total of ten

consecutive days in

> afib and setting a record for my longest afib session. I have no

way of

> telling if the anesthetic prolonged the afib episode because I also

had to

> take Amoxicillin to prevent infection. That drug could have caused

the

> lengthy afib episode. It certainly messed up my INR, which shot up

to 4.5

> while I was taking the Amoxicillin.

>

> This is probably more information than you wanted, but it does

suggest that

> anesthetic, at least that containing epinephrine, can have an

effect on the

> heart.

>

> in sinus in Seattle (Yes, I bounced back to sinus this

morning and am

> not so eagerly awaiting the next installment of afib.)

[Guest guest]

I'll try. But I have a feeling they have all conspired against any of

my requests. They say why can't you just accept you are having

seizures and there is nothing we can do. Luckily I haven't had one

since I started the aspartame and MSG free diet. But the thought and

fear remains. If i got the monitor I would probably have to consume

it agian to make it happen. And I don't want that either. My hope

remains with the sleep clinic where I will be hooked up all night to

EEG and ECG machines. I do have strange bangs and ZZZZZ'z in my head

which throw me off balance in the day, and especially at night, so

this is probably a milder form. The machines should pick up what is

happening.

Thanks Fran

> > Too late now for the other type of 30 day monitor!! My cardio

says

> > there is no more he can do for me. So basically I just have to

get

> on

> > with it. Besides I am allergic to the sticky patches, even the

hypo

> > allerenic ones. Ever felt you were thrown on the scrap heap....?

>

> Fran, I would consider insisting on the allthetime type of thirty

day

> monitor. I don't see how else you will find out about those

seizure

> things.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/20/2001 1:24:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,

fross@... writes:

<< I have a

mouth full of bad teeth as I am too afraid to go back to the dentist.

What does it take?? Complete abstinence from all supposed health

carers? ITs getting that way. >>

Fran,

I would keep searching for a more compassionate dentist. There are some.

The endodontist who did my root canal was extremely caring and concerned,

asking me about every five minutes during the procedure if I was all right.

The root canal which I feared so much in advance was very easy for me because

of his compassionate attitude. He even called my cardiologist in advance,

discussed my heart situation with him, and had him approve the use of the

small amount of anesthetic with epinephrine. There probably is not a large

number of dentists like him out there, but some can be found if one looks

diligently. Good luck!'

in sinus in Seattle