Guest guest Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 >Just a little on the extra beats. and a little more on extra beats from what I've learnt followed by some of my own thoughts.... The heart is normally driven by the sinus node - a small area (volume!) in the right atria which starts the whole process off. However, all cells in the heart are capable of beating by themselves and depending on their location their natural frequency varies. (all locations should have a frequency a bit longer than the sinus node so they don't interfere with the normal rate) If, for some reason, the sinus node doesn't produce a beat another area of the heart will kick in and start a beat going. This is a fantastic backup up system and their are several layers of backup, each with longer frequencies, which can kick in if something fails upstream. In one sense AF can be considered part of this backup system, although it's extremely unpleasant for some of us, it's better than no beat at all! The heart cells also have this great quality that once they have fired they will be a pause before they fire again (they ignore any signal to fire for a while - the refractory period). In the 'normal' heart this has at least 2 useful outcomes. One is that you can't get cramp of the heart! The other is that, even though the heart is a very asymmetrical 3d shape, once a pulse starts it spreads out in a nice way from top to bottom and doesn't chase it's tail. The big question that we would all love to know is what is causing our AF. For some of us it will no doubt be a faulty wiring problem that mentioned and is the attention of so much research at the moment. (and Wolff Parkinson White syndrome is another wiring problem that has been known for quite some time) If my AF turns out to be caused by this I can't really see any option but to opt for ablation to sort the wiring out. I have trouble though believing that this is the case for me since I'm in NSR 94% of the time - I can't come up with a good reason why a physical wiring problem would only show it's faults 6% of the time. (ok, I can but don't want to believe it! - see below...) I can come up with a few other reasons why I might be going into AF.... Over active vagal stimulus can slow the sinus node down so much that another location of the heart kicks in to try fix the problem. - ALL of my AF's are preceded by a few ectopic beats and often I can spot the long pause before something kicks in. Perhaps something gets out of kilter and changes the natural frequency of these backup cells - if they try firing quicker than the sinus node then ectopics will happen - some of which could throw the heart into AF. Something else gets out of kilter(!) and reduces the refractory period of the cells, a normal beat ends up chasing it's tail, produces ectopics and kicks the heart into AF. And of course, just to make things hard, it could be a combination of all of the above including faulty wiring that makes it more likely to happen! 'out of kilter' is used far too often in the above explanation for my liking but it's the thing I want to cure, AF is only a symptom of things being out of kilter. We will get there one day! All the best - and please feel free to disagree with anything I've said here or throw other ideas into the pot... -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2001 Report Share Posted October 29, 2001 Hi, I'm also in the camp of " it's not just my wiring " . I'm pretty much convinced it has to do with the bowel area for me. I am diagnosed with what the doc called a 'cascade stomach'... not sure if this is the same as reflux? It basically means there are extra(i think longitudal)muscles in the stomach which can make it go the wrong way... They saw that in an X-ray they took of my stomach, also had a gastroscopy but Xray is a far better way to see it. Didn't even show up in gastroscopy. My doc thinks this might be the cause for me... So there's a lot of tension/air in the stomach...you bend over or crouch and all this gets released in one big blow going upwards and 'hitting' the heart....resulting in AF. I have found that it's not so much stress or tension that kicks me into AF, but a sudden relaxation of the upper bowel area/diaphram...as happens when bending over, crouching, laying down. A lot of forced belching, or a sort of gasping/swallow air thing which results in my stomach making 'hungry' noises can prevent me going into AF... So i always do that when i feel a lot of tighness in my stomach. That's why i don't drink stuff like cola or other sodas, not so much cause of the sugar but cause of the bubbles. Had one episode of AF in a bar(urgh), ordered a coke, drank it slowly...finished the glass an let out a gooood manly burp... and bam..AF...one of my worsed episodes with over 240 bpm for an hour orso.. I hate going into bars since...sigh. Also found that when going to bed the best is to start out on the right side, then after half an hour orso when i'm relaxed i can move on my back...or left side without problems If the first thing i do is lay on my back or left side chances of the heart going bonkers are way higher. As far as i can remember i never went into AF or get the thump which i mention below when i started with laying down on my right side. Now this is rather personal, hope no one takes offence but i thought it might be worth mentioning.. Another reason why i think it's the bowels more than the heart is when i have an orgasm and the bowel muscles cramp up it can happen that i feel a large thump in my chest(happens rarely thank God), sort of like the 'mammal inside chest' feeling from full AF but it only last 1 or 2 beats. The same thump which can happen when i lay down on my left side and completly relax in one go. Now i'm not sure what those are, ectopics..atrial flutter...PACs...PVCs... really have no idea but from what i can tell it's that thump which can trigger full AF. Me and my causin(she gets those aswell mostly right after getting into bed) call it a 'heartfart' these days...cause that's how it feels:) Another theory, from a woman who is into alternative meds, was that it could be the horizontal part of the large colon which runs under the diaphram. She had a medical name for this but i really can't remember. Anyways..the theory is that this part of the colon sort of tightens up making the middle part going upwards and that pressure can result in AF again when bending over or doing something relating to the bowel area/diaphram. For me my first episode was when i was 18 orso, now 13 years ago. Back then i'd go into seriously high bpm AF episodes which could last looooong and it could happen 3 times a week. The older i get the rarer it seems to happen....only about 4 episodes a year and my last one has been 6 months ago...knock on wood. Now my theory, don't we all have one:). For some it might be the electrical wiring, for other a combination and maybe for some the cause is only in the bowel/stomach area in combination with the vagaus nerve without any faulty heart wiring(though i doubt the last thing). With the electrical group things don't improve over time and ablation is the cure. For others, like me i guess, it might actually be that the heart adjusts in a positive way and starts ignoring unwanted input like the stomach going into reflux...or the vagues nerve being stimulated. I'm really curious if there is actually something wrong with my electrical wiring, or if it's just the stomach/bowel thing. But no way am i mentally capable of going though a electroscopy.. just the thought of a catheter going into my heart sends me into a panic attack:) My 2 cents... Take care, Willem At 19:22 29-10-2001 +0000, you wrote: <snip> >The big question that we would all love to know is what is causing our AF. > >For some of us it will no doubt be a faulty wiring problem that mentioned >and is the attention of so much research at the moment. (and Wolff Parkinson >White syndrome is another wiring problem that has been known for quite some >time) >If my AF turns out to be caused by this I can't really see any option but to opt >for ablation to sort the wiring out. I have trouble though believing that this >is the case for me since I'm in NSR 94% of the time - I can't come up with a >good reason why a physical wiring problem would only show it's faults 6% of the >time. (ok, I can but don't want to believe it! - see below...) > >I can come up with a few other reasons why I might be going into AF.... > >Over active vagal stimulus can slow the sinus node down so much that another >location of the heart kicks in to try fix the problem. - ALL of my AF's are >preceded by a few ectopic beats and often I can spot the long pause before >something kicks in. > >Perhaps something gets out of kilter and changes the natural frequency of these >backup cells - if they try firing quicker than the sinus node then ectopics will >happen - some of which could throw the heart into AF. > >Something else gets out of kilter(!) and reduces the refractory period of the >cells, a normal beat ends up chasing it's tail, produces ectopics and kicks the >heart into AF. > >And of course, just to make things hard, it could be a combination of all of the >above including faulty wiring that makes it more likely to happen! > >'out of kilter' is used far too often in the above explanation for my liking >but it's the thing I want to cure, AF is only a symptom of things being out >of kilter. > >We will get there one day! >All the best - and please feel free to disagree with anything I've said here >or throw other ideas into the pot... >-- > D _________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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