Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Greg, this is positive and reassuring news. I am full of indecision, although I really want to be rid of this wretched problem, and ablation would appear to be the only way. I think your positivity, together with your reasons for so doing, may have influence on my own decision, . Regards, Oliver Ablation Decision I thought I would let the group know that I have decided to proceed with an ablation. The turning point in my decision making process was advice from my son-in-law who was a practising physician and is now CEO of Angiotech Pharmaceuticals Inc.(Nasdaq - ANPI). He has had discussions with people at Boston Scientific who were involved in the development of the treatment devices and also spoken to a cardiologist who was involved in the testing of the procedure for approval in the US. In their view an otherwise healthy individual with lone paroxysmal a/f should undergo the procedure. The risks are minimal. If it isn't successful you will be back where you started and may decide to have the procedure again at a later date. To remove the bias that the individuals he spoke with may have had, he asked them how they would advise their own parents. They had no hesitation in saying that they would give their own parents the same advice. While these views were without the benefit of my medical records, my son-in-law checked on the reputation of my cardiologist (Dr. Kerr in Vancouver) and found that he was extremely conservative and cautious. As he is recommending the procedure based on my medical history my son-in-law is even more comfortable with a decision to proceed. Dr. Kerr will do the procedure together with Dr. Yeung, the cardiologist/electrophysiologist, on September 21, 2001. In preparation, I will start on coumadin in about two weeks so I will be reading with interest the comments from this group on coumadin issues. Greg (Vancouver) Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af Post message: AFIBsupport Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe List owner: AFIBsupport-owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Hi Greg - you have obviously done your homework in coming to this decision - I'm sure it's the right one for you. I wish you all the best and every success in your upcoming procedure. -- D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Greg Good luck my thoughts will be with you C Dr. Kerr will do the procedure together with Dr. Yeung, the cardiologist/electrophysiologist, on September 21, 2001. In preparation, I will start on coumadin in about two weeks so I will be reading with interest the comments from this group on coumadin issues. Greg (Vancouver) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Hi Greg, I had the ablation done in at the beginning of July. Although I might be AF free now ( I am not totally sure, and will have another Holter) I continue to have a large number of PACs. The holter showed 1600 PACs. My EP Dr. Larry Sterns in has suggested that I have a second go at it. This time, however, he will be assisted by a team of experts from the US who are demonstrating, what I believe will be the Lasso catheter technique, in early Sept. Will this be the same technique used on you at the end of Sept? What I understand of it, this will give the vein a 360 degree zap, instead of the spot ablating that was done the first time. The success with the Lasso is supposed to be much higher. Having experienced the procedure before, I am not nearly as nervous about it as the first time. It was quite an amazing experience. Aside from the small puncture wound in my groin, which had negligible pain, I had no real other awareness that anything had been done to me afterwards. In my case that posed a problem because I am naturally an active person and within a few days I was trying to return to my old life style. But that was much too soon. I ended up with having the worst feeling AF I ever had. For the next one I will listen to everyone's advice when they remind me that my heart did have a major assault done to it and to take it easy. Leo (Vancouver Island) > .....who were involved in the development of the treatment devices and also spoken to a > cardiologist who was involved in the testing of the procedure for > approval in the US. In their view an otherwise healthy individual > with lone paroxysmal a/f should undergo the procedure. The risks are > minimal. If it isn't successful you will be back where you started > and may decide to have the procedure again at a later date. > Greg > (Vancouver) > > > > > > Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport > For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af > Post message: AFIBsupport > Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe > Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Thank-you . Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Thank-you . Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Hi Leo, Thanks for your comments. I am not sure whether or not the Lasso tecnique will be used but I will let you know as I learn more. I wish you well during the recovery process. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Ablation Decision > > Dr. Kerr will do the procedure together with Dr. Yeung, the > cardiologist/electrophysiologist, on September 21, 2001. In > preparation, I will start on coumadin in about two weeks so I will be > reading with interest the comments from this group on coumadin issues. > > Greg > (Vancouver) > ----- that's interesting Greg, I live in Chilliwack and saw a cardiologist in New Westminster last year, he suggested I have AV node ablation, and I had an appointment with Dr. Yeung last Dec. to discuss it. However I found this group and Hans Larsens forum and decided it was too drastic, so I cancelled my app.. My afib started in '88 I was diagnosed in '94 and had EP in in '96 Dr. Leather did not find anything to ablate at that time. Good Luck with your procedure in Sep. and I eagerly await your comments after you have it done Warm regards to all Ella (100 km east of Vancouver) > > Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport > For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af > Post message: AFIBsupport > Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe > Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2001 Report Share Posted August 3, 2001 Hi Ella, The ablation I will be having is in the pulmonary arteries. It will not be an ablation (ie removal) of the sinus node so no pacemaker will involved. Thank-you for your interest. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 Greg, congratulations on your decision to go ahead with the ablation. It sounds very well thought out. I admire your courage! Here's to 100% success!! Sandy From: bowjude@... I thought I would let the group know that I have decided to proceed with an ablation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/3/2001 10:22:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bowjude@... writes: << In preparation, I will start on coumadin in about two weeks so I will be reading with interest the comments from this group on coumadin issues. >> Greg, Congratulations on your decision to try ablation. Your well-thought decision is a model of courage and proactive planning for all of us. After two years of Coumadin, I would say that the drug is not a serious issue, provided your INR is carefully monitored by Protime tests. Because I have described here some of the potentially serious injuries I have sustained while on Coumadin, you know that taking Coumadin does not necessarily result in serious bleeding, again provided medical supervision is constant. Also, if your ablation is successful, you won't be on Coumadin that long! A life without Coumadin is a worthwhile goal, although Coumadin is more of a nuisance than a threat, I think. I may be rethinking my decisions on ablation and meds because I have entered new afib territory. I am now in my ninth day of afib, one day longer than my previous longest session of eight days two years ago. It's been easier for me to accept the thought of permanent afib when I was only in afib for 60 hours every 11-14 days. Confronted with the prospect that this session might not end, after reading about the ablation decisions of you and other brave people, and after receiving encouragement from Hank to rethink my decision, I find ablation is increasingly in my thoughts. I am hoping that this current long session is the result of a temporary effect of the epinephrine used in my root canal this week, of the Amoxicillin I have been taking all week, or maybe of the stress involved. I didn't notice any effects of the epinephrine at the time, but I'm wondering if it could have disturbed the fragile electrical balance in my sinus node. Probably there is no connection between the epinephrine and this abnormal (for me) afib episode, but I have rescheduled some stomach procedures which I was to have tomorrow because they require anesthesia. The main reason, however, for rescheduling is the fact that Coumadin and my INR level are involved. I would have to be off of Coumadin for three days before the procedures in order to insure a lower level of anticoagulation. When my intuition told me that the Amoxicillin might have affected my INR, I decided to have an extra Protime test on Friday and discovered that my INR was indeed higher that ever before: 3.55. Reasoning that discontinuing the Coumadin for three days would still leave my INR at too high a level since it was already so high, I decided to reschedule. Besides, I think my body and mind have had enough stress for one week. I guess this illustrates another example of the vicissitudes of taking Coumadin. One has to actively participate in monitoring levels, especially when more than one doctor is involved and one doctor may not know that the other has prescribed meds that could affect the INR. (I read somewhere, perhaps on this board, that Amoxicillin destroys the friendly bacteria in the intestine which manufacture the vitamin K to counteract the anticoagulation effect of Coumadin. This, along with mysterious new bruises appearing on my body, made me suspicious that my INR might be too high. I'm keeping a healthy distance from that lethal dog of mine!) At any rate, I would rather have my INR slightly too high than slightly too low at this point, after being in afib for nine days. In its usual capricious way, my afib could end at any time or it could last forever. Who knows? Either way I am sure that when my respite from afib arrives, it will be short as usual and certainly will end in yet another afib episode. That's why I particularly admire at this moment you and the others who have proactively decided on ablation. Maybe you will inspire a basically fearful soul like me to follow your example! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/3/2001 10:22:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bowjude@... writes: << In preparation, I will start on coumadin in about two weeks so I will be reading with interest the comments from this group on coumadin issues. >> Greg, Congratulations on your decision to try ablation. Your well-thought decision is a model of courage and proactive planning for all of us. After two years of Coumadin, I would say that the drug is not a serious issue, provided your INR is carefully monitored by Protime tests. Because I have described here some of the potentially serious injuries I have sustained while on Coumadin, you know that taking Coumadin does not necessarily result in serious bleeding, again provided medical supervision is constant. Also, if your ablation is successful, you won't be on Coumadin that long! A life without Coumadin is a worthwhile goal, although Coumadin is more of a nuisance than a threat, I think. I may be rethinking my decisions on ablation and meds because I have entered new afib territory. I am now in my ninth day of afib, one day longer than my previous longest session of eight days two years ago. It's been easier for me to accept the thought of permanent afib when I was only in afib for 60 hours every 11-14 days. Confronted with the prospect that this session might not end, after reading about the ablation decisions of you and other brave people, and after receiving encouragement from Hank to rethink my decision, I find ablation is increasingly in my thoughts. I am hoping that this current long session is the result of a temporary effect of the epinephrine used in my root canal this week, of the Amoxicillin I have been taking all week, or maybe of the stress involved. I didn't notice any effects of the epinephrine at the time, but I'm wondering if it could have disturbed the fragile electrical balance in my sinus node. Probably there is no connection between the epinephrine and this abnormal (for me) afib episode, but I have rescheduled some stomach procedures which I was to have tomorrow because they require anesthesia. The main reason, however, for rescheduling is the fact that Coumadin and my INR level are involved. I would have to be off of Coumadin for three days before the procedures in order to insure a lower level of anticoagulation. When my intuition told me that the Amoxicillin might have affected my INR, I decided to have an extra Protime test on Friday and discovered that my INR was indeed higher that ever before: 3.55. Reasoning that discontinuing the Coumadin for three days would still leave my INR at too high a level since it was already so high, I decided to reschedule. Besides, I think my body and mind have had enough stress for one week. I guess this illustrates another example of the vicissitudes of taking Coumadin. One has to actively participate in monitoring levels, especially when more than one doctor is involved and one doctor may not know that the other has prescribed meds that could affect the INR. (I read somewhere, perhaps on this board, that Amoxicillin destroys the friendly bacteria in the intestine which manufacture the vitamin K to counteract the anticoagulation effect of Coumadin. This, along with mysterious new bruises appearing on my body, made me suspicious that my INR might be too high. I'm keeping a healthy distance from that lethal dog of mine!) At any rate, I would rather have my INR slightly too high than slightly too low at this point, after being in afib for nine days. In its usual capricious way, my afib could end at any time or it could last forever. Who knows? Either way I am sure that when my respite from afib arrives, it will be short as usual and certainly will end in yet another afib episode. That's why I particularly admire at this moment you and the others who have proactively decided on ablation. Maybe you will inspire a basically fearful soul like me to follow your example! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 I am a new member and it is interesting to me to read all the various episodes that people have. I have had three previous episodes, all lasting less than 48 hours but this one I am having now has been going for more than a week. I'm supposed to start norpace tomorrow if it doesn't break. Does anyone have thoughts on Norpace. I'm sure some of you are on it now. I feel fine but I hate knowing that my atria are firing away like crazy all the time! Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 I am a new member and it is interesting to me to read all the various episodes that people have. I have had three previous episodes, all lasting less than 48 hours but this one I am having now has been going for more than a week. I'm supposed to start norpace tomorrow if it doesn't break. Does anyone have thoughts on Norpace. I'm sure some of you are on it now. I feel fine but I hate knowing that my atria are firing away like crazy all the time! Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/5/2001 9:05:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, joks@... writes: << I think you are doing yourself a good service by at least examining the possibility of having the ablation procedure done. It is scary, but if it works, it's a new life. >> Leo, Thanks so much for your encouragement and for sharing in detail your ablation experience. It's wonderful and encouraging to the rest of us that you are afib free. Now if you can get rid of those PAC's, heart problems will be in your past. I hope you'll keep us informed about your progress. You're right about the wisdom of examining all possibilities. One should always at least be open to examination of various options, including ablation. Right now my afib is quite bearable, and I must take my pulse to tell if I am in afib or sinus because the sensations of wild thumping and weakness which I experienced ten years ago no longer accompany afib. (Perhaps my heart is doing a good job of rewiring or restructuring itself for afib.) Since I realize that my afib symptoms could intensify as my sessions lengthen, I must continue to explore all options. In the back of my mind is the idea that I am fighting genes because everyone in my immediate family except one brother has had or has afib. However, I guess people do manage to overcome genetic destiny in other areas, and it may be possible with afib, also. Again, thanks for your support and encouragement! I wish you a successful ablation in September and a lifetime of sinus rhythm! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/5/2001 9:05:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time, joks@... writes: << I think you are doing yourself a good service by at least examining the possibility of having the ablation procedure done. It is scary, but if it works, it's a new life. >> Leo, Thanks so much for your encouragement and for sharing in detail your ablation experience. It's wonderful and encouraging to the rest of us that you are afib free. Now if you can get rid of those PAC's, heart problems will be in your past. I hope you'll keep us informed about your progress. You're right about the wisdom of examining all possibilities. One should always at least be open to examination of various options, including ablation. Right now my afib is quite bearable, and I must take my pulse to tell if I am in afib or sinus because the sensations of wild thumping and weakness which I experienced ten years ago no longer accompany afib. (Perhaps my heart is doing a good job of rewiring or restructuring itself for afib.) Since I realize that my afib symptoms could intensify as my sessions lengthen, I must continue to explore all options. In the back of my mind is the idea that I am fighting genes because everyone in my immediate family except one brother has had or has afib. However, I guess people do manage to overcome genetic destiny in other areas, and it may be possible with afib, also. Again, thanks for your support and encouragement! I wish you a successful ablation in September and a lifetime of sinus rhythm! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/5/2001 7:00:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jfw1900@... writes: << am a new member and it is interesting to me to read all the various episodes that people have. I have had three previous episodes, all lasting less than 48 hours but this one I am having now has been going for more than a week. >> Hi, Jack, Welcome to the world of afib. You have already found out a chief characteristic of afib: its unpredictable, capricious nature. This especially applies to length of episodes. I started out eighteen years ago with 24 hour sessions about twice a year. Then the frequency of the sessions increased to about three or four per year for about 12 years. Two years ago the sessions dramatically increased to a frequency of every 11-14 days and length of about 48-65 hours. However, during the past two years, I have also had one session of eight days and another of six. From last September until January I was completely afib free. Then afib returned with a vengeance, and since January I have been back on the 11-14 day schedule. Now, as I said in my previous post, I am in my ninth day of afib, the longest session so far. I recount my history to help you realize that a long session does not necessarily mean a permanent afib. My older brother, who has been in permanent afib for 20-30 years, said that on the way to permanent afib, he would stay in afib for months and then suddenly convert to sinus in which he would then stay for months. He didn't know it was afib at that time, but he was judging the length of the episodes by the period of time during which he felt symptoms or was symptom free. Since you are a relatively new afibber, I doubt that you will stay in afib this time. I predict that you will convert spontaneously. However, since you probably will experience more episodes, it is important to discuss with your doctor anticoagulation for avoidance of stroke. Afib is not a killer, but the possibility of stroke which accompanies afib is the biggest threat which can be controlled by taking Coumadin or aspirin. If you're considering Norpace, you undoubtedly have also discussed anticoagulation with your doctor. I wish you good luck and a speedy return to sinus! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 In a message dated 8/5/2001 7:00:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jfw1900@... writes: << am a new member and it is interesting to me to read all the various episodes that people have. I have had three previous episodes, all lasting less than 48 hours but this one I am having now has been going for more than a week. >> Hi, Jack, Welcome to the world of afib. You have already found out a chief characteristic of afib: its unpredictable, capricious nature. This especially applies to length of episodes. I started out eighteen years ago with 24 hour sessions about twice a year. Then the frequency of the sessions increased to about three or four per year for about 12 years. Two years ago the sessions dramatically increased to a frequency of every 11-14 days and length of about 48-65 hours. However, during the past two years, I have also had one session of eight days and another of six. From last September until January I was completely afib free. Then afib returned with a vengeance, and since January I have been back on the 11-14 day schedule. Now, as I said in my previous post, I am in my ninth day of afib, the longest session so far. I recount my history to help you realize that a long session does not necessarily mean a permanent afib. My older brother, who has been in permanent afib for 20-30 years, said that on the way to permanent afib, he would stay in afib for months and then suddenly convert to sinus in which he would then stay for months. He didn't know it was afib at that time, but he was judging the length of the episodes by the period of time during which he felt symptoms or was symptom free. Since you are a relatively new afibber, I doubt that you will stay in afib this time. I predict that you will convert spontaneously. However, since you probably will experience more episodes, it is important to discuss with your doctor anticoagulation for avoidance of stroke. Afib is not a killer, but the possibility of stroke which accompanies afib is the biggest threat which can be controlled by taking Coumadin or aspirin. If you're considering Norpace, you undoubtedly have also discussed anticoagulation with your doctor. I wish you good luck and a speedy return to sinus! in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 , This is the first time I have corresponded with you directly. During the last year, or so, I have followed, with a great deal of interest, your comments on the Maze board and now this group. You may think of yourself as " basically fearful " , but all the things I have read, that you have written on these two forums, makes you come across as a strong, determined, intelligent and well informed woman. I think you are doing yourself a good service by at least examining the possibility of having the ablation procedure done. It is scary, but if it works, it's a new life. I was very scared leading up to the days of my pulmonary vein ablation in early July of this year. The thought of wires being propelled to tiny little veins in my heart, left me in a state of anxiety many times. Fears of stenosis, stroke, and a myriad of other things, were with me all the time. The week before the procedure I took a sleeping pill every night. Then on the day of the event I felt very calm. Went to the hospital at 7 a.m., did all the things required of me and by the time I went into the lab, I was almost looking forward to the adventure. The procedure went without incident, as far as I know, and afterwards I could barely believe that anything had been done to me. I have been af free for a couple of weeks now. I am still inundated with frequent PACs. If that doesn't improve in the next few weeks, I will have the PVA done again in sept. This time I am not as frightened and I am fully confident that I will be cured. Good luck to you. Leo " Maybe you will inspire a basically fearful soul like me to follow your example! " > in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2001 Report Share Posted August 5, 2001 , This is the first time I have corresponded with you directly. During the last year, or so, I have followed, with a great deal of interest, your comments on the Maze board and now this group. You may think of yourself as " basically fearful " , but all the things I have read, that you have written on these two forums, makes you come across as a strong, determined, intelligent and well informed woman. I think you are doing yourself a good service by at least examining the possibility of having the ablation procedure done. It is scary, but if it works, it's a new life. I was very scared leading up to the days of my pulmonary vein ablation in early July of this year. The thought of wires being propelled to tiny little veins in my heart, left me in a state of anxiety many times. Fears of stenosis, stroke, and a myriad of other things, were with me all the time. The week before the procedure I took a sleeping pill every night. Then on the day of the event I felt very calm. Went to the hospital at 7 a.m., did all the things required of me and by the time I went into the lab, I was almost looking forward to the adventure. The procedure went without incident, as far as I know, and afterwards I could barely believe that anything had been done to me. I have been af free for a couple of weeks now. I am still inundated with frequent PACs. If that doesn't improve in the next few weeks, I will have the PVA done again in sept. This time I am not as frightened and I am fully confident that I will be cured. Good luck to you. Leo " Maybe you will inspire a basically fearful soul like me to follow your example! " > in Seattle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Thank you . I am rapidly finding out how unpredictable a fib is. It is going to be a long, interesting ride. I'm 49 and I hope that I don't have to look forward to a fib for 40 years but my dad is 80 and has had it for many years and he is still very active so I guess it can be lived with. I don't now I'm in it unless I check my pulse, but I do get winded earlier while in it.... Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2001 Report Share Posted August 6, 2001 Thank you . I am rapidly finding out how unpredictable a fib is. It is going to be a long, interesting ride. I'm 49 and I hope that I don't have to look forward to a fib for 40 years but my dad is 80 and has had it for many years and he is still very active so I guess it can be lived with. I don't now I'm in it unless I check my pulse, but I do get winded earlier while in it.... Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 11, 2001 Report Share Posted August 11, 2001 Thanks for your thoughts Sandy. Greg > Greg, congratulations on your decision to go ahead with the ablation. It sounds very well thought out. I admire your courage! Here's to 100% success!! Sandy > From: bowjude@c... > > I thought I would let the group know that I have decided to proceed > with an ablation. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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