Re: Psychological Contributions to AF ??

[Guest guest]

there is no doubt in my mind that there is a very strong psychological component

to AF. AF is a manifastation of the body's response to stress. Some people get

sweaty palms, others may get AF. This is clearly elucidated in my LAF prevention

protocol ( available at www.DrLam.com) as one key factor. While few of us admit

the absences of stress, most of us would deny that we have difficulty handling

stress. The problem with AF is that while you may think you can handle stress,

your body is telling you the reverse by the very nature of AF most of the time.

This is , of course, not 100%.

Dr Lam

Dr@...

-----Original Messge-----

From: Vicky

Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 7:28 PM

To: AFIBsupport

Subject: Psychological Contributions to AF ??

I've been wondering about an aspect of health in general which gets

almost never discussed here in connection with AF - the psychological

contribution. We talk about stress, yes, but is, for example, AF another

manifestation of a " heart-disease " personality?

I never used to think I was a heart-disease personality type, and that

AF was of course " different " from infarcts and angina, but I am

beginning to think more deeply about this. I have noticed, for example,

that I definitely feel worse if I have to work, and in the past few

weeks I have had to more or less give up work, and notice that I feel

better when I do - still in AF, but " lighter " . I have also noticed an

increasing amount of not wanting to get down to work and displacement

activity before getting on with it. I also know, and perhaps recognise

more than I used to, that I can be a very serious and uptight person

(when my lighter side is not around!).

Hans Larsen's survey a while ago suggested perhaps two types with AF -

the laid-back types and the non-laid back. Perhaps the laid-back types

also need dividing into truly-laid-back and

only-think-they're-laid-back, the latter of which I could probably now

admit to !!!

I do feel there will definitely be a psychological aspect to AF - and

after all, at the physical level, if the personality can affect the

myocardium and cause significant loss of blood flow (in the heart-attack

/angina groups) , then affecting the conduction and refractory

properties of the heart muscle would seem a merely trivial challenge to

the psycho-somatic process.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

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[Guest guest]

there is no question that our psy

Psychological Contributions to AF ??

I've been wondering about an aspect of health in general which gets

almost never discussed here in connection with AF - the psychological

contribution. We talk about stress, yes, but is, for example, AF another

manifestation of a " heart-disease " personality?

I never used to think I was a heart-disease personality type, and that

AF was of course " different " from infarcts and angina, but I am

beginning to think more deeply about this. I have noticed, for example,

that I definitely feel worse if I have to work, and in the past few

weeks I have had to more or less give up work, and notice that I feel

better when I do - still in AF, but " lighter " . I have also noticed an

increasing amount of not wanting to get down to work and displacement

activity before getting on with it. I also know, and perhaps recognise

more than I used to, that I can be a very serious and uptight person

(when my lighter side is not around!).

Hans Larsen's survey a while ago suggested perhaps two types with AF -

the laid-back types and the non-laid back. Perhaps the laid-back types

also need dividing into truly-laid-back and

only-think-they're-laid-back, the latter of which I could probably now

admit to !!!

I do feel there will definitely be a psychological aspect to AF - and

after all, at the physical level, if the personality can affect the

myocardium and cause significant loss of blood flow (in the heart-attack

/angina groups) , then affecting the conduction and refractory

properties of the heart muscle would seem a merely trivial challenge to

the psycho-somatic process.

Best of health to all,

Vicky

Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

Post message: AFIBsupport

Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe

Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

[Guest guest]

Lee, I am very interested in your views on Psychological factors and AF. I

don't want this to sound like a sob story so I will make it brief. Our forth

child was born with congenital glaucoma, had multiple surgeries, was autistic

" like " ,intactable seizures, and was profoundly retarded. She was a handful

but we managed as a close family and we did place her at fourteen years of

age in a nursing home where she still resides.

My husband developed Alsheimers and after many years at home I finally placed

him in a nursing home also. My first AF episode was when he died after being

in the nursing home for five years. I had two episodes then and was put on a

beta blocker and did well until after caring for my sister with liver cancer

and after she died I had more episodes of AF.There was a six year span

between their deaths.

I do think for me stress was a big factor with my AF. I don't think I

suffered from PTSD after any of my loses as I am still doing OK. Am a nurse

and work with babies that are medically fragile and their familes. Take a

bata blocker and Flacainide and other than AF I'm pretty healthy at 72!

This was longer than I thought. Good health to all my fellow AFIBers and God

Bless

Phyllis in San Diego

[Guest guest]

Vicky and all:

You raise a question of great interest to me. I am a psychotherapist

who has also had a lot of personal psychotherapy. At this stage in

my life I am no longer a particularly anxious or depressed person,

nor can I find a direct relationship between my emotional state and

the onset of AF episodes. The slow and inexorable progression of my

AF continued unabated after I retired from the most stressful part of

my work 4 years ago. In fact, after 14 years of very gradually more

frequent and longer episodes of AF (with the rate well-controlled by

meds), my pattern is now quite predictable and boring...an AF episode

generally starts while I am sleeping and reverts to NSR after one and

a half or two and a half days while I am taking a morning bike ride.

My experience is that AF episodes have CAUSED anxiety more than

anxiety has caused the AF. Most recently, it seems that learning to

go in and out of AF with equanimity...mostly :-)... has actually been

good for me psychologically.

However, I do have a personal theory about some psychological factors

that may have predisposed me to AF and I would like to know if anyone

else can relate to it. I voiced it on a different AF discussion list

a year or so ago and some people reacted as if they thought I was

saying that people who have AF are more emotionally unstable, which

is not at all what I think. But I grew up in a violent home, and I

wonder if traumatic experiences (eg. medical traumas, war

experiences, criminal assault, family abuse/neglect, etc.)

could " mess up " the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system and

predispose one to the electrical misfiring of AF later in life. What

all traumas have in common is that a person is trapped in terrifying,

possibly life-threatening incidents in which they feel helpless and

can neither fight nor flee...sort of like a deer caught in the

headlights of a car that will probably hit it. We know that when

people have sufficient kindness and support in these circumstances,

they usually do not develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

But when they don't have support, PTSD is almost inevitable and it

usually manifests with a variety of physical and emotional symptoms

that can recur throughout their life unless they get effective

professional help. I don't think this means that everyone who has

had traumatic experiences will develop AF, nor that all AF sufferers

have probably been traumatized. But it does seem to me that if a

person has certain genetic vulnerabilities, the trauma history and

its impact on the vagal/adrenergic system might contribute to the

development of AF.

If I were younger and still working in a University setting, I would

persuade some colleagues to do some research on this with me. I no

longer have that kind of ambition, but would love to hear responses

from the real-life research trenches of AFers in this group. I'm

leaving for Mexico on Saturday for 2 weeks of language study in

Guanajuato, but I will look forward to catching up with you all at

our website when I return.

Warmly,

Lee, NJ

> I've been wondering about an aspect of health in general which gets

> almost never discussed here in connection with AF - the

psychological

> contribution.

[Guest guest]

Lee, I 've also pondered the connection between AF and psychological

factors, as we probably all have. Like you, I am now pleasantly retired

from a long and active career in the mental health field.

Although there is no question in my mind that stress can initiate, or once

initiated, exacerbate the AF roler coaster, there is an other question which

has also been of great interest to me. Why is it that there appear to be so

many " athletic " types who end up with AF? I say " appears " , because I am

only going by the sample of those who write in to this and other groups,

many of whom are long distance runners etc. Is there a connection between

the stress of endurance athletetics and the alteration of the

electro/chemical system of the heart? What type of personality chooses to

be an endurance athlete? Is there a connection between the endorphins

created by long distance endeavours and the chaotice electrical output of

the AF heart?

As a long distance person myself, I have wondered if I might have prevented

my present AF condition, if I had spent more time facing my stresses on an

emotional level, rather than replacing the emotional/psychological stress

with the stress of hard physical activity.

Just wondering. Leo

[Guest guest]

Dear Lee,

It's really heartening to hear from a professional supporting a theory I've

been formulating with regard to my AF episodes and the death of my father

when I was 8 years old.

I've always been rather uptight, but hid it from everyone, stressing out

about many rather unimportant things on a daily basis. I'm much more

relaxed than I used to be, but the old fight or flight syndrome kicks in

frequently and unnecessarily and the incessant concern about events that

haven't even occurred, may not occur or may in fact occur. I had a dreadful

back problem which taught me some invaluable lessons about stress, but

apparently these lessons need to be relearned because I can feel a different

heartbeat and sometimes fibs will begin if I don't bring my mind into a

relaxed mode.

It is a constant challenge for me to stay in touch with my body; if I'm busy

working lunch & dinner time will come and go and I'll continue to work and

afib will begin as soon as I take the first bite because of the stress this

causes my body. Very difficult to unlearn bad habits and adopt healthier

ones and I can attest to that.

You, Vicky, Dr. Lam and others who post on Hans Larsen's website are good

reminders of

how important it is to give in, let go, go with the flow, whatever you

choose to call it. I really appreciate all of you . Thanks again.

Re: Psychological Contributions to AF ??

> Vicky and all:

>

> You raise a question of great interest to me. I am a psychotherapist

> who has also had a lot of personal psychotherapy. At this stage in

> my life I am no longer a particularly anxious or depressed person,

> nor can I find a direct relationship between my emotional state and

> the onset of AF episodes. The slow and inexorable progression of my

> AF continued unabated after I retired from the most stressful part of

> my work 4 years ago. In fact, after 14 years of very gradually more

> frequent and longer episodes of AF (with the rate well-controlled by

> meds), my pattern is now quite predictable and boring...an AF episode

> generally starts while I am sleeping and reverts to NSR after one and

> a half or two and a half days while I am taking a morning bike ride.

> My experience is that AF episodes have CAUSED anxiety more than

> anxiety has caused the AF. Most recently, it seems that learning to

> go in and out of AF with equanimity...mostly :-)... has actually been

> good for me psychologically.

>

> However, I do have a personal theory about some psychological factors

> that may have predisposed me to AF and I would like to know if anyone

> else can relate to it. I voiced it on a different AF discussion list

> a year or so ago and some people reacted as if they thought I was

> saying that people who have AF are more emotionally unstable, which

> is not at all what I think. But I grew up in a violent home, and I

> wonder if traumatic experiences (eg. medical traumas, war

> experiences, criminal assault, family abuse/neglect, etc.)

> could " mess up " the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system and

> predispose one to the electrical misfiring of AF later in life. What

> all traumas have in common is that a person is trapped in terrifying,

> possibly life-threatening incidents in which they feel helpless and

> can neither fight nor flee...sort of like a deer caught in the

> headlights of a car that will probably hit it. We know that when

> people have sufficient kindness and support in these circumstances,

> they usually do not develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

> But when they don't have support, PTSD is almost inevitable and it

> usually manifests with a variety of physical and emotional symptoms

> that can recur throughout their life unless they get effective

> professional help. I don't think this means that everyone who has

> had traumatic experiences will develop AF, nor that all AF sufferers

> have probably been traumatized. But it does seem to me that if a

> person has certain genetic vulnerabilities, the trauma history and

> its impact on the vagal/adrenergic system might contribute to the

> development of AF.

>

> If I were younger and still working in a University setting, I would

> persuade some colleagues to do some research on this with me. I no

> longer have that kind of ambition, but would love to hear responses

> from the real-life research trenches of AFers in this group. I'm

> leaving for Mexico on Saturday for 2 weeks of language study in

> Guanajuato, but I will look forward to catching up with you all at

> our website when I return.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Lee, NJ

>

>

>

> > I've been wondering about an aspect of health in general which gets

> > almost never discussed here in connection with AF - the

> psychological

> > contribution.

>

>

> Web Page http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> Post message: AFIBsupport

> Subscribe: AFIBsupport-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

**

Lee,

This is a very well thought out and interesting theory which may have a lot

of basis in fact. Your background almost mirrors mine and the similarity may

be more than just coincidence. As with Leo, I am also a very fit and

athletic person, so is this another " coincidence " I wonder!

While it is reassuring, as I too find I am a great deal calmer about my

episodes now, it does not presage a hopeful prognosis. However, it does help

me focus on the wisdom of ablation over staying as I am - with the

inevitable degeneration into full time AF. Which do you think is the lesser

of the two evils? ;o))

Oliver

**

Re: Psychological Contributions to AF ??

> Vicky and all:

>

> You raise a question of great interest to me. I am a psychotherapist

> who has also had a lot of personal psychotherapy. At this stage in

> my life I am no longer a particularly anxious or depressed person,

> nor can I find a direct relationship between my emotional state and

> the onset of AF episodes. The slow and inexorable progression of my

> AF continued unabated after I retired from the most stressful part of

> my work 4 years ago. In fact, after 14 years of very gradually more

> frequent and longer episodes of AF (with the rate well-controlled by

> meds), my pattern is now quite predictable and boring...an AF episode

> generally starts while I am sleeping and reverts to NSR after one and

> a half or two and a half days while I am taking a morning bike ride.

> My experience is that AF episodes have CAUSED anxiety more than

> anxiety has caused the AF. Most recently, it seems that learning to

> go in and out of AF with equanimity...mostly :-)... has actually been

> good for me psychologically.

>

> However, I do have a personal theory about some psychological factors

> that may have predisposed me to AF and I would like to know if anyone

> else can relate to it. I voiced it on a different AF discussion list

> a year or so ago and some people reacted as if they thought I was

> saying that people who have AF are more emotionally unstable, which

> is not at all what I think. But I grew up in a violent home, and I

> wonder if traumatic experiences (eg. medical traumas, war

> experiences, criminal assault, family abuse/neglect, etc.)

> could " mess up " the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system and

> predispose one to the electrical misfiring of AF later in life. What

> all traumas have in common is that a person is trapped in terrifying,

> possibly life-threatening incidents in which they feel helpless and

> can neither fight nor flee...sort of like a deer caught in the

> headlights of a car that will probably hit it. We know that when

> people have sufficient kindness and support in these circumstances,

> they usually do not develop post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

> But when they don't have support, PTSD is almost inevitable and it

> usually manifests with a variety of physical and emotional symptoms

> that can recur throughout their life unless they get effective

> professional help. I don't think this means that everyone who has

> had traumatic experiences will develop AF, nor that all AF sufferers

> have probably been traumatized. But it does seem to me that if a

> person has certain genetic vulnerabilities, the trauma history and

> its impact on the vagal/adrenergic system might contribute to the

> development of AF.

>

> If I were younger and still working in a University setting, I would

> persuade some colleagues to do some research on this with me. I no

> longer have that kind of ambition, but would love to hear responses

> from the real-life research trenches of AFers in this group. I'm

> leaving for Mexico on Saturday for 2 weeks of language study in

> Guanajuato, but I will look forward to catching up with you all at

> our website when I return.

>

> Warmly,

>

> Lee, NJ

>

>

>

> > I've been wondering about an aspect of health in general which gets

> > almost never discussed here in connection with AF - the

> psychological

> > contribution.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good morning, all:

I am very moved by and appreciative of the deeply personal responses

on this topic. Unfortunately, I have a plane to catch to Mexico and

there is no time to respond individually. Bad timing, to be in the

middle of a subject of such great interest to me just before a two

week trip. But it gives me something to look forward to catching up

on when I return!

Warmly,

Lee, NJ