Re: Levels seem low to me?

[Guest guest]

,

If you still have symptoms, you need to discuss them with your Dr. While

everyone is different, most people don't feel good in these ranges. I sure

don't. Take a week and write down your symptoms on a daily basis. The

take them to your doctor. What med and what dose are you taking?

Kate G

At 03:23 PM 12/26/2007, you wrote:

>Dr. Owens just gave me my results and said they were " fine. " I still

>feel tired and have hair loss, but not as bad as one year ago! I think

>my level could be better and wanted to ask your opinions:

>

>Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 (norm)

>T4, Free (Direct) .95 .61-1.76 (norm)

>TSH (YES SHE DOES) .013 LOW .350-5.5 (norm)

>

>Ferritin, Serum 62 10-291 (norm)

>

>I do B-12 shots every week for right now and they help, but I still

>feel draggy. I like the time Dr. Owens spends with me, but she

>mentioned the TSH should be in line with the rest of the labs! Is it

>time for me to change again? Thanks for your time.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The TSH does not always line up with the rest of the results, especially if you are taking Armour. It is precisely this sort of thing that caused me to take her off my list some time ago. I put her back on when a couple of folks said that she did not mind their TSH being suppressed.

Not very many of us would feel fine with numbers like that. I would point out that both the Free T3 and Free T4 are in the lower half of their ranges, that you feel like recycled dog food, and that you would like an increase to see if it makes you feel better to get your Free Ts into the upper half of their ranges.

If the doc can write in their notes, "Patient does not feel well and insisted on a small increase," then they can cover their @$$, should the TMB come calling.

If you want to make one more attempt to work with her, I would suggest that you write her a letter listing your symptoms, asking to try a larger dose "as an experiment to see if it makes me feel better" and promise to document your daily dosing and daily symptoms or lack thereof. Offer to sign a "hold blameless" statement.

I would suggest asking for some 30 mg tablets, if you are on Armour, to be added to your current dose.

In the DFW area, Launius in ville is about your only other choice. If you do not mind travelling, Lubbock and Austin are places where you might get adequate treatment.

>> Dr. Owens just gave me my results and said they were "fine." I still> feel tired and have hair loss, but not as bad as one year ago! I think > my level could be better and wanted to ask your opinions:> > Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 (norm)> T4, Free (Direct) .95 .61-1.76 (norm)> TSH (YES SHE DOES) .013 LOW .350-5.5 (norm)> > Ferritin, Serum 62 10-291 (norm)> > I do B-12 shots every week for right now and they help, but I still > feel draggy. I like the time Dr. Owens spends with me, but she > mentioned the TSH should be in line with the rest of the labs! Is it > time for me to change again? Thanks for your time. >

[Guest guest]

> >Dr. Owens just gave me my results and said they were " fine. " I

still

> >feel tired and have hair loss, but not as bad as one year ago! I

think

> >my level could be better and wanted to ask your opinions:

> >

> >Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 (norm)

> >T4, Free (Direct) .95 .61-1.76 (norm)

> >TSH (YES SHE DOES) .013 LOW .350-5.5 (norm)

> >

> >Ferritin, Serum 62 10-291 (norm)

> >

> >I do B-12 shots every week for right now and they help, but I still

> >feel draggy. I like the time Dr. Owens spends with me, but she

> >mentioned the TSH should be in line with the rest of the labs! Is

it

> >time for me to change again? Thanks for your time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Exactly why so many of us head out to Lubbock “sick and

tired of being sick and tired”. I wish more doctors would “get it”.

Kim in No Texas

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

[mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On

Behalf Of e

Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007

4:41 PM

To:

Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject:

Re: Levels seem low to me?

>

Thank you for your replies. I take 120 mg. armour and I will, indeed,

negotiate and write down symptoms to see if this helps. I would love

to go to Dr. , but he doesn't take my insurance. BUT, the

more tired and bad I feel, what the heck? I may do it anyway. Thanks

again.

[Guest guest]

There used to be more doctors who "got it." But the skewering of various good thyroid docs by their respective state boards has had a chilling effect on docs being willing to stick their necks our to adequately treat us.

The most egregious example is that of Kansas endo Jackie Springer whose medical license was pulled. Right behind her is the late Fran Rose of Irving, Texas, who did not live long enough to see her license revoked.

I cannot tell you the number of so-called Broda docs I have removed from our list, due to their conversion to the TSH-worshipping religion. Most of them are still prescribing Armour, just not enough to make you feel well. . . . .

Did I remind you not to get me started?

>> Exactly why so many of us head out to Lubbock "sick and tired of being sick> and tired". I wish more doctors would "get it".> > > > Kim in No Texas> > > > From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of e> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 4:41 PM> To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups > Subject: Re: Levels seem low to me?> > > > >> Thank you for your replies. I take 120 mg. armour and I will, indeed, > negotiate and write down symptoms to see if this helps. I would love > to go to Dr. , but he doesn't take my insurance. BUT, the > more tired and bad I feel, what the heck? I may do it anyway. Thanks > again. >

[Guest guest]

What I did when I first saw her was tell her outright " I feel best

when my TSH is suppressed. " I did have to have the nurse remind her

recently that she promised me she wouldn't dose me by TSH on that

first day. I was able to keep my dose after that. As long as I'm not

displaying hyper symptoms, she's fine with me being below that range.

She is worried about the whole repercussions of all of this that a lot

of docs are worried about and getting in trouble for, we've had talks

about it. But I think if you tell her outright " This is how I want to

be treated for this, and I think I need such and such to happen. "

Unless what you're asking is something outrageous, I can't imagine her

denying you. If you can prove to her you've done the research and

understand this disease, she seems to be a lot more open minded about

things and allowing the patient to control things to a point.

She even said when she looked at my frees at my 2nd visit (which were

in range but low - actually, both my #s were slightly higher than

yours!) " This is why so many patients continue to feel bad because

doctors don't know these #s should be much, much higher. You

definitely need an increase. " So it seems so odd to me she'd have a

different reaction to yours. At that point, my TSH was still " in

range " though (barely) so maybe that's why. But when the nurse told

me to decrease my current dose slightly a couple of months ago due to

my TSH being .02 (but frees still only mid-range), I refused and said

I was not okay with that. So she said she'd talk to Dr Owens about my

concerns. She called me back immeidately (the nurse) and said I could

stay at my current dose.

Anyway, just my experiences - hopefully you can get something worked

out with her!

Jul

> Dr. Owens just gave me my results and said they were " fine. " I still

> feel tired and have hair loss, but not as bad as one year ago! I think

> my level could be better and wanted to ask your opinions:

>

> Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 (norm)

> T4, Free (Direct) .95 .61-1.76 (norm)

> TSH (YES SHE DOES) .013 LOW .350-5.5 (norm)

>

> Ferritin, Serum 62 10-291 (norm)

>

> I do B-12 shots every week for right now and they help, but I still

> feel draggy. I like the time Dr. Owens spends with me, but she

> mentioned the TSH should be in line with the rest of the labs! Is it

> time for me to change again? Thanks for your time.

[Guest guest]

Did anyone ask her why she was mentioning the #s " not being in line " , I

wonder? Could it be that she is instead wondering about the pituitary and

whether or not there's something wrong there? One of the problems in the

wondering is that people don't ask the doctor what it is that they meant.

Instead, they are silent and tell OTHER people, while the doctor has

absolutely no idea what is on their minds. I'm thinking that Dr. Owens is,

instead, feeling the patient out, to see how SHE feels about the suppressed

TSH, being very careful what she says on this sbjct, since she stands to be

skewered by her state board of examiners. SHE (shoe on other foot) has no

idea who SHE is dealing with yet, if the patient hasn't stated what THEY

think on this sbjct. You can't go into a doctor's office and not talk to

them, thinking all this is going to be gotten by osmosis, instead of

communication.

Re: Levels seem low to me?

> What I did when I first saw her was tell her outright " I feel best

> when my TSH is suppressed. " I did have to have the nurse remind her

> recently that she promised me she wouldn't dose me by TSH on that

> first day. I was able to keep my dose after that. As long as I'm not

> displaying hyper symptoms, she's fine with me being below that range.

>

> She is worried about the whole repercussions of all of this that a lot

> of docs are worried about and getting in trouble for, we've had talks

> about it. But I think if you tell her outright " This is how I want to

> be treated for this, and I think I need such and such to happen. "

> Unless what you're asking is something outrageous, I can't imagine her

> denying you. If you can prove to her you've done the research and

> understand this disease, she seems to be a lot more open minded about

> things and allowing the patient to control things to a point.

>

> She even said when she looked at my frees at my 2nd visit (which were

> in range but low - actually, both my #s were slightly higher than

> yours!) " This is why so many patients continue to feel bad because

> doctors don't know these #s should be much, much higher. You

> definitely need an increase. " So it seems so odd to me she'd have a

> different reaction to yours. At that point, my TSH was still " in

> range " though (barely) so maybe that's why. But when the nurse told

> me to decrease my current dose slightly a couple of months ago due to

> my TSH being .02 (but frees still only mid-range), I refused and said

> I was not okay with that. So she said she'd talk to Dr Owens about my

> concerns. She called me back immeidately (the nurse) and said I could

> stay at my current dose.

>

> Anyway, just my experiences - hopefully you can get something worked

> out with her!

>

> Jul

>

>

>> Dr. Owens just gave me my results and said they were " fine. " I still

>> feel tired and have hair loss, but not as bad as one year ago! I think

>> my level could be better and wanted to ask your opinions:

>>

>> Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum 2.7 2.3-4.2 (norm)

>> T4, Free (Direct) .95 .61-1.76 (norm)

>> TSH (YES SHE DOES) .013 LOW .350-5.5 (norm)

>>

>> Ferritin, Serum 62 10-291 (norm)

>>

>> I do B-12 shots every week for right now and they help, but I still

>> feel draggy. I like the time Dr. Owens spends with me, but she

>> mentioned the TSH should be in line with the rest of the labs! Is it

>> time for me to change again? Thanks for your time.

[Guest guest]

Very true, ! Dr Owens is very open to communication with her

patients from my experiences. If she disagrees or thinks you're wrong

or mistaken, she will tell you. But my experiences with her seem to

go against several others I hear. Maybe it's because from the get go,

I told her exactly what I wanted and she saw I knew what I was talking

about (which is not to say e hasn't - but maybe Dr O just doesn't

realize that)? I think she might be a lot more lenient in allowing

the patient to go outside the " normal " lines of treatment when she

sees first hand they've done their research. She opened up

immediately with her own concerns about all this and even what she

herself does for her own treatment when I brought all of it up myself.

I don't think she would have brought it up herself if I hadn't.

She's walking a fine line with all of this, that's for sure. But a

couple of statements I've heard mentioned about her seem to go

directly against what she's told me herself so there has to be

something more to it all.

If that's not the case, then I'm clueless.

Jul

> Did anyone ask her why she was mentioning the #s " not being in line " , I

> wonder? Could it be that she is instead wondering about the pituitary and

> whether or not there's something wrong there? One of the problems in the

> wondering is that people don't ask the doctor what it is that they meant.

> Instead, they are silent and tell OTHER people, while the doctor has

> absolutely no idea what is on their minds. I'm thinking that Dr. Owens is,

> instead, feeling the patient out, to see how SHE feels about the suppressed

> TSH, being very careful what she says on this sbjct, since she stands to be

> skewered by her state board of examiners. SHE (shoe on other foot) has no

> idea who SHE is dealing with yet, if the patient hasn't stated what THEY

> think on this sbjct. You can't go into a doctor's office and not talk to

> them, thinking all this is going to be gotten by osmosis, instead of

> communication.

>

>