Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

[Guest guest]

Dr. does not actually prescribe my Armour, although I rely on his advice. My previous PCP, who did not normally Rx Armour, left me to my own devices. But I learned to be very conservative about increases, because I knew that if I had a problem, his solution would be to pull the Armour. When I went to new PCP (Alan Berg) last year, I negotiated the right to adjust my own thyroid and diabetes meds. I am able to stay in close contact with him through email. I also track my daily dosing of those meds on an Excel file along with my blood glucose levels. I give him a copy of that file at each four month visit. Getting to an initial target dose of 90-120 mg with

increases such as you describe should be fine. Further increases probably should be done 6-12 weeks apart with testing in between. As you approach your optimal dose, increases of just 15 mg might be more appropriate. Kathleen wrote: You have a similar arrangement? It's nice to have a doctor respect you, isn't it? Thank you for helping me. It's much appreciated, truly. How quickly is rather quickly? I have been moving up by 15-30 mg approximately every 3 days without any problems. I

have been on 90 mg for about 4 days now, so I could move up to 120 tomorrow even. So I guess I won't be at 120 mg long enough for the full effect when I see my doctor on the 14th, but I hope to have been on it long enough to be able to tell him something, including the fact that the low dose made me feel worse and I had to move up rather quickly. That should be helpful information, I would hope.I will take your advice and stay at the 120 mg (assuming my doctor agrees with this does, of course), for the 6-8 weeks before retesting. And yes, I don't need any more adrenal stress. Been there and it's not fun. Thanks, Jan! -----

Original Message ----- From: Jan To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour Having your doc's permission to self-adjust makes this a whole different ball game. I have a

similar arrangement. In that case, I would suggest getting to about 120 mg rather quickly, but then stay on that dose for 6-8 weeks and then get tested before doing any further tweaking. It takes that long to get the full effect of a dose. Flitting around from one dose to another does not give you realistic information. Furthermore, every change in dosage is a stress on your adrenals. >> Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying

things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets e do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your

idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specificlly to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > Thank you. I value your opinion.

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[Guest guest]

Thank you, Jan! I truly appreciate and respect your opinion. I will definitely wait the 6-12 weeks as you suggest before going any further. Good for you on your negotiations! I guess that's why you say you are one of the #1 advocates in the country. My current doctor pretty much lets me do what, as well. He gives advice, opinions, suggestions and, of course, orders tests he thinks he needs or are prudent. I think he's found me one of his more challenging cases, so it's probably mutually beneficial. I know I am his only patient who hasn't been able to tolerate DHEA, unfortunately. I do appreciate his trust in me. For example, I know he is nervous about me being on 20 mg Cortef and had originally suggested I try to go down to 10 mg. I did, and it worked fine--until I tried to implement thyroid hormone again. I crashed on 10 mg and had to go back on 20. My doctor was okay with it and simply has been testing me for bone loss and density to make sure I'm not hurting myself. I am going to bring him Jeffries' book next visit so he can see that even 20 is not considered a replacement dose for most people, at least by Jeffries, due to a 60% absorption of Cortef in the body. (I know you know all this, but someone reading this post might not.)

So, do you see Dr. on a consulting type basis, then? Is it also to get information for the thyroid members here? I also have a very open minded PCP, but since the doctor treating my thyroid/adrenals is also local to me, I guess I have no reason to switch and simply consult with him. He has tested/treated me for many things that can cause low metabolism (many of which I actually had, like low COQ10), and I don't think my PCP would have thought to test those. And those things have helped me, too. I think I am one of the few people in the Albuquerque area using this doctor, so hopefully I can recommend him to those who can't travel too far. I am reluctant to add him to any database, though, as I believe he was once on Shamon's top doc list and asked to be removed--likely due to fear of reprise by the AMA for not treating according to their TSH worshipping and other "standard" practices." If people want to know about him, they should feel free to email me.

Thanks again!

Kathleen

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Having your doc's permission to self-adjust makes this a whole different ball game. I have a similar arrangement.

In that case, I would suggest getting to about 120 mg rather quickly, but then stay on that dose for 6-8 weeks and then get tested before doing any further tweaking. It takes that long to get the full effect of a dose.

Flitting around from one dose to another does not give you realistic information. Furthermore, every change in dosage is a stress on your adrenals.

>> Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets e do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specificlly to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > Thank you. I value your opinion.

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[Guest guest]

I never said that I was one of the #1 advocates.

I see mainly for the adrenal and S*E*X* hormones. He does test my thyroid levels and advises me on dosing. He prescribes my compounded hormones. He would also prescribe my thyroid meds if I needed him to do that.

My PCP writes my Armour and Lannett prescriptions, since I get them from my drug plan's mailorder service. We found that if we sent them prescriptions from more than one doc, they would invariably call the wrong doc if there was a problem. We do not want to confuse the ESL pharamacist and the one-digit-IQ pharmtech.

How do you tell the pharmacist from the pharmtech at your mailorder pharmacy? The pharmtech is the one who speaks English. . . . .

> >> > Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets e do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > > > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specificlly to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > > > Thank you. I value your opinion.> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry; I meant to say "that's why THEY say you are one of the #1 advocates."

Lol about the pharmtech.

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

I never said that I was one of the #1 advocates.

I see mainly for the adrenal and S*E*X* hormones. He does test my thyroid levels and advises me on dosing. He prescribes my compounded hormones. He would also prescribe my thyroid meds if I needed him to do that.

My PCP writes my Armour and Lannett prescriptions, since I get them from my drug plan's mailorder service. We found that if we sent them prescriptions from more than one doc, they would invariably call the wrong doc if there was a problem. We do not want to confuse the ESL pharamacist and the one-digit-IQ pharmtech.

How do you tell the pharmacist from the pharmtech at your mailorder pharmacy? The pharmtech is the one who speaks English. . . . .

> >> > Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressfl day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets e do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > > > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, asically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specificlly to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > > > Thank you. I value your opinion.> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?> Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. > > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM>

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[Guest guest]

The main probelm with this really fast dosing increase is that Armour or any

other thyroid med has T4 in it, which will not makes itself fully known

until approx. 6 wks to 8 wks, or maybe even more, depending on what all

these body tissues use, utilize, and how fast or how slow they utilize it.

You will not know what your FIRST dose was doing until this time, let alone

all these other increases you've done. 1 + 1 here doesn't necessarily make

2, in thyroid treatment, varying with each person. But one thing I know is

that this is way too fast. I'm thinking that it was really smart of the doc

to get away from that 30 mgs to 60 really fast because he probably knows

that your own thyroid gland has (at that time) downplayed itself, so it's

time to " get out of that mode " before the gland itself goes way too far

down. The object would be to let the med " take over " , in place of the gland

itself, so that 30 mgs can be just enough to put the thyroid " to sleep " , but

not enough for your body tissues not to suffer. However, I have NEVER

agreed with another site's notion that everyone needs at least 3 to 4 grains

of Armour. It's funny that I've read in some places that the " average "

thyroiid gland itself has a daily out put of 125 mcgs of T4, yet in other

places it seems to be much more. Of course, that wouldn't count the small

amt of direct T3 that it used to make on it's own either, so I don't really

know or can't get a handle on what's really true there.

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Hello,

I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some

research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my

questions--as well as raise some more.

I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but in

truth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreated

adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!

At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time

and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be

trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially,

what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid

medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter

of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll

start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better

for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme

fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms,

though, as far as I can tell.

This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and

regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and

thus suppressed frees, too.

Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does.

I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and

now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel

like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired.

I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too

fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors

routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose.

Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all

previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent

attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me

to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am

not having any hyper symptoms.

My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May

14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my

appointment.

Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your reply, !

Yes, I worry about that t4 kicking in down the road as well. The problem is that I was getting worse and worse every day in the meantime due to the thyroid being suppressed and the t4 not having fully kiced in. I am probably living off mostly t3 at this point, but I couldn't function until I did get to the 120 mg today as I was even more hypo than with no medicine at all, which is scary. Jan did tell me it will take 6-12 weeks at 120 mg to truly know how I feel on that dose, so I will discuss this with my doc and hopefully just stay there for a few months and see how I do when the t4 has built up. I do believe Dr. R starts patients on 120 to 180 mg Armour, so I'm thinking this is an okay dose to be on initially as long as I'm not experiencing overstimulation problems.

I have a feeling, with my non-med labs, that I won't need much more, if any, than the 120 mg and maybe that may eventually be too much. Don't worry, I don't plan to jump up to 3 or 4 grains right now! I got to 120 okay, seem to doing allright, and will see what happens over the next few months on this dose.What I hate about t4 is that I don't convert well at all. I worry that even the t4 in Armour will prove too much for me down the road as it builds up, and I might end up on a lesser dose + Cytomel. Who knows. I guess the labs and how I feel will let me know on that one. The pain is that if you have too much t4, it takes so many weeks to wear out of your system. Almost makes me want to take just plain t3, but I think there are other things in Armour my body needs, like the T2. And I was of the understanding that t4 converts to other things our bodies need besides just t3. That could be erroneous information I have on that part, though.

One thing I want to note is that it is truly INCREDIBLE that I can tolerate thyroid meds now that I'm on Cortef! Previously, 15 mg Armour sent me into hyper mode, believe it or not. Now that I'm on Cortef, my body is handling all this Armour without even a heart palp. Incredible. Wish the docs who kept putting me on Armour (I was fortunate enough to find 3 of them that were willing!) would have recognized and treated adrenal insufficiency. I kept bringing it up, but they wouldn't address it. Sigh.

Please let me know any other thought you have!

Kathleen

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for ArmourHello,I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do someresearch on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of myquestions--as well as raise some more.I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but intruth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreatedadrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some timeand that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to betrying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially,what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoidmedicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matterof days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'llstart out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much betterfor about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extremefatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms,though, as far as I can tell.This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor andregroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH andthus suppressed frees, too.Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does.I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg andnow, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feellike I could use even more as I still get pretty tired.I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing toofast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctorsroutinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose.Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at allpreviously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recentattempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for meto just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and amnot having any hyper symptoms.My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for myappointment.Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.Kathleen

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[Guest guest]

Dr. R started me on only 60 mg.....then increased to 90 and was going to leave it at that but I felt like I needed more so I increased it to 120.....and got him to agree (by phone)......really conservative with me anyway.....

[Guest guest]

I had a discussion with Dr. R last week on his starting dose protocols. The information I had given before was not correct.

90 mg is a typical starting dose. But for those already on meds with no evidence of tolerance issues, he attempts to determine an equivalent dose.

I specifically asked him what he would have prescribed for me, as I had been on 300 mcg of $ynthroid. He said he would have given me between 180 and 240 mg.

>> Thank you for your reply, !> > Yes, I worry about that t4 kicking in down the road as well. The problem is that I was getting worse and worse every day in the meantime due to the thyroid being suppressed and the t4 not having fully kiced in. I am probably living off mostly t3 at this point, but I couldn't function until I did get to the 120 mg today as I was even more hypo than with no medicine at all, which is scary. Jan did tell me it will take 6-12 weeks at 120 mg to truly know how I feel on that dose, so I will discuss this with my doc and hopefully just stay there for a few months and see how I do when the t4 has built up. > > I do believe Dr. R starts patients on 120 to 180 mg Armour, so I'm thinking this is an okay dose to be on initially as long as I'm not experiencing overstimulation problems. > > I have a feeling, with my non-med labs, that I won't need much more, if any, than the 120 mg and maybe that may eventually be too much. Don't worry, I don't plan to jump up to 3 or 4 grains right now! I got to 120 okay, seem to doing allright, and will see what happens over the next few months on this dose.> > What I hate about t4 is that I don't convert well at all. I worry that even the t4 in Armour will prove too much for me down the road as it builds up, and I might end up on a lesser dose + Cytomel. Who knows. I guess the labs and how I feel will let me know on that one. The pain is that if you have too much t4, it takes so many weeks to wear out of your system. Almost makes me want to take just plain t3, but I think there are other things in Armour my body needs, like the T2. And I was of the understanding that t4 converts to other things our bodies need besides just t3. That could be erroneous information I have on that part, though.> > One thing I want to note is that it is truly INCREDIBLE that I can tolerate thyroid meds now that I'm on Cortef! Previously, 15 mg Armour sent me into hyper mode, believe it or not. Now that I'm on Cortef, my body is handling all this Armour without even a heart palp. Incredible. Wish the docs who kept putting me on Armour (I was fortunate enough to find 3 of them that were willing!) would have recognized and treated adrenal insufficiency. I kept bringing it up, but they wouldn't address it. Sigh.> > Please let me know any other thought you have!> > Kathleen> > > > > > > Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour> > Hello,> > I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some> research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my> questions--as well as raise some more.> > I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but in> truth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreated> adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!> > At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time> and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be> trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially,> what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid> medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter> of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll> start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better> for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme> fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms,> though, as far as I can tell.> > This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and> regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and> thus suppressed frees, too.> > Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does.> I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and> now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel> like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired.> > I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too> fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors> routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose.> Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all> previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent> attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me> to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am> not having any hyper symptoms.> > My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May> 14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my> appointment.> > Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.> > Kathleen> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM>

[Guest guest]

He is very conservative on dose increases. He has no problem treating those who need larger doses, as well as those who need a suppressed TSH, but they have to be patient in arriving at their correct dose. He does not ever want any of his patients to go hyper. My take on this is that a trip to the emergency room with hyper symptoms and/or numbers would be a red flag for the conservative medical community and the Texas Medical Board. Jacque wrote: Dr. R started me on only 60 mg.....then increased to 90 and was going to leave it at that but I felt like I needed more so I increased it to 120.....and got him to agree (by phone)......really conservative with me anyway.....

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[Guest guest]

Okay, well scratch my last post. I need to start at the beginning of these threads, not the end... Sorry. I'm concerned that the 90 didn't seem like enough for me because of my poor conversion, hence, the 120 felt better because of the extra t3, which effect is pretty immediate. It takes a while, I know, for the t4 to build up, and I'm a terrible converter anyway. So I'm sure not much of that t4 in my Armour dose is being converted. I have no problem handling the t3 in the product, even with these fast increases, and I suspect the t3 is doing almost all the work right now. I do worry, as I said below, that the t4 will start to kick in a bit down the road (I'm sure I convert SOMETHING) and then I may be overmedicated. Or it will build up to toxic levels because I don't convert it and I'll feel hyper from the t4, but still need all the t3. I am going to discuss all of this this with my doctor Monday. Maybe I am going to be one of those that just has to take more t3 in general, so maybe a lower dose Armour + Cytomel combination. My doctor mentioned that previously to me based on my labs (see below.) Has anyone had to take extra t3 while waiting for the t4 levels to build up?

I'm also curious what my conversion may be with these lab results. This was on NO thyroid medication. Are we possible able to figure from this whether my t3 is coming from the thyroid's direct production or from conversion? Or is that impossible to do?Free t4 1.3 (.8 to 1.8)Free t3 2.3 (2.2 to 4.2)

As I said, my doc leaves me to own devices and gives me advice, suggestions, his experience with other patients. He does let me try different things. I want to be able to discuss all possibilities with him next Monday as I know I need to pick something and stick with it for a good 6-8 weeks to truly see what it is doing. I know flitting around will not help me.

Thanks,Kathleen

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour> > Hello,> > I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some> research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my> questions--as well as raise some more.> > truth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreated> adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!> > At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time> and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be> trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially,> what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid> medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter> of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll> start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better> for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme> fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms,> though, as far as I can tell.> > This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and & t; regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and> thus suppressed frees, too.> > Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does.> I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and> now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel> like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired.> > I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too> fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors> routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose.> Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all> previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent> attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me> to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am> not having any hyper symptoms.> > My doctor knows I am trying to tak the meds and I see him on May> 14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my> appointment.> > Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.> > Kathleen> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/791 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:07 AM>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.5/792 - Release Date: 5/6/2007 9:01 PM

[Guest guest]

I was started on 90mg. One daughter

on 90mg. The other daughter on 60mg.

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of Jacque

Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 8:54 AM

To: Texas_Thyroid_Groups

Subject: RE:

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Dr. R started me on only 60 mg.....then

increased to 90 and was going to leave it at that but I felt like I needed more

so I increased it to 120.....and got him to agree (by phone)......really

conservative with me anyway.....

[Guest guest]

> <snip>The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a

> terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good,

> basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I

> should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on

> just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so

> I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell

> you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say

> anything and I didn't press it.

>

When you have a problem with the " staff " it helps to ask for the office

manager... they are more apt to make a change for you than the doctor.

Marti (experienced at training " staff " through office managers)

[Guest guest]

Yes, I knew I didn't have the office manager, but when this other woman is there, it's because the office manager has the day off. So I was SOL, unfortunately, as it was a Friday, but I should have called back on Monday and asked the office manage to have the doctor call me. I will know better next time! I also am going to make sure to ask the doctor specifically the next time we have a script change whether he will call me back if I have problems and need immediate help.

Re: Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

> <snip>The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a > terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, > basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I > should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on > just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so > I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell > you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say > anything and I didn't press it.>When you have a problem with the "staff" it helps to ask for the office manager... they are more apt to make a change for you than the doctor.Marti (experienced at training "staff" through office managers)

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/797 - Release Date: 5/10/2007 5:10 PM