Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

[Guest guest]

> OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me

> on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the

> synthetic reduced?

I switched from Levoxyl to Armour all at once. I had a very, very bad

2nd day on Armour (not sure if it was going from the synthetic to

Armour or what) but the 3rd day and after was like a world of

difference. I'm still struggling with a lot of symptoms, mainly

because I do think I have other issues I hope to get straightened out

with this new guy I'm seeing in a couple of weeks, but the switchover

can be done at once. I have frequent achiness in my back and neck

that has lessened quite a bit since switching. It's not gone but I

don't think I'm on high enough of a dose just yet (a little over 2

grains). It's definitely better, though.

Jul

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry that your knee pain has not be relieved.

I am on Armour. I had shoulder pain that was present for well over a year

that did eventually go away after being on Armour for a month or two. I

also had terrible pain in the soles of my feet, not just Plantar Fasciitis.

That responded almost immediately to Armour. The foot pain was back prior

to my last dosage increase. I tried everything...switching shoes, always

wearing shoes when up, stretching exercises etc, etc. Sure enough when I

had the dosage increase, it resolved again probably within the week. Thank

goodness!

Maybe switching to Armour might be a good idea. I'm sure others will give

you feedback.

Good luck!

Kim

Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Hi:

I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I thought the

addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only gotten worse. I am

doing leg stretching exercises now that help the flexibility, swelling, and

pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30 minutes of gardening - I am in

excruciating (SP?) pain.

Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from

muscle/joint pain?

I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were free of

pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they didn't have other

problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me on

Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same equivilent dose

of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the synthetic reduced?

Any help/advise appreciated.

[Guest guest]

It worked for me - took a couple of months to build up but I'm now on 4 grains of Armour and painfree in my knee joints...I still get the occasional ache but nothing like before when I was onSynthroid...Cheers, Tee

Hi:

I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only

gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help the

flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30

minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from

muscle/joint pain?

I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were

free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me

on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the

synthetic reduced?

Any help/advise appreciated.

-- Don't Take Life Seriously. It's Not Permanent!

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your replies. When you did the switch, did you do it all

at once - with the same equivilent dose of Armour - as the Synthroid

you were on? Did you have any problem adjusting to Armour. I've read

of people having terrible anxiety, etc. when switching to Armour.

Thanks,

> >

> > Hi:

> > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

> > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only

> > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help

the

> > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for

30

> > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

> >

> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free

from

> > muscle/joint pain?

> >

> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were

> > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

> > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

> >

> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me

> > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and

the

> > synthetic reduced?

> >

> > Any help/advise appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

> --

> Don't Take Life Seriously. It's Not Permanent!

>

[Guest guest]

I did have some joint pain I didn't even think was related, thought it was 'arthritis', but it wasn't as severe as yours, it was way down the list of symptoms. It has gone away with Armour, but comes back a little when I need an increase.

I did switch over to Armour from Synthroid cold turkey, but I was on a pretty small dose of Synthroid and switched to 90mg Armour and have been increasing slowly. I was pretty nervous about the switch, but had no problems.

Be sure your adrenals have been tested first in case you need adrenal support at the same time.

Carol

>> Hi:> I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help the > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30 > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from > muscle/joint pain?> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the > synthetic reduced?> > Any help/advise appreciated.> > >

[Guest guest]

I am one who made a gradual switch. I went from 300 µg of $ynthroid to 180 mg of Armour plus 75 µg of $ynthroid. I thought that I was being very conservative in taking a full four weeks to do this. But that was actually a pretty fast increase on the Armour. But I had no problem and I accomplished what I set out to do, which was to avoid being over- or under-medicated while increasing to my optimal dose of Armour. If you switch to straight Armour, it is generally advisable to start with a lower dose of Armour. Our two favorite docs start most folks on either 90 or 120 mg or occasionally 180 mg of Armour regardless of their previous dose of the T4 med. There are two problems with trying to switch from a full dose of levothyroxine to a full equivalent dose of Armour cold turkey overnight: 1. You could have hyper-like (adrenal) symptoms, since you are not used to the T3. 2. The equivalency charts are not very good, because the apples don't always equal the oranges. What you may need, and can tolerate, is highly individual. There is no one right way to switch to Armour. If your doc has

experience with Armour, he will generally have a protocol for making the switch. And being a good compliant patient who is grateful for the Armour Rx, you will do it how the doc asks you to do it. If your doc has no experience, but is willing to work with you on this, I would suggest asking for enough of the 30 mg tablets to equal your equivalent dose using 60 mg of Armour = between 74 and 100 µg of T4 only. But start with 30 mg twice a day. You may be able to proceed to your full dose rather quickly or you may have to move in 15 mg increments. The Armour prescribing info is extremely conservative,

recommending starting with 30 mg and making 15 mg increases every two weeks. This will leave many folks jumping up and down and begging for an increase. Joint pain was the first symptom to leave just ten days into the Armour. Muscle cramps and fatigue took a little longer to dissipate. Oink! Waldrop wrote: Thanks for your

replies. When you did the switch, did you do it all at once - with the same equivilent dose of Armour - as the Synthroid you were on? Did you have any problem adjusting to Armour. I've read of people having terrible anxiety, etc. when switching to Armour. Thanks, > >> > Hi:> > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I> > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only> > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help

the> > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30> > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.> >> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from> > muscle/joint pain?> >> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were> > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they> > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.> >> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me> > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same> > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the> > synthetic reduced?> >> > Any help/advise appreciated.> >> >

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

[Guest guest]

>

> Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from

> muscle/joint pain?>

I had severe fibromyalgia. Some of the pain lessened with the

combination of Levoxyl and Cytomel (Cynomel), which I was on for four

years, but all the pain and discomfort did not go away until I switched

to Armour.

A year ago, I switched from 125 Levoxyl and 25 Cytomel, started at 3

grains of Armour and gradually upped to 4 1/2. I reclaimed my body and

mind at 4 grains and continue to improve.

I may soon reach my optimized point. But muscle and joint pain --

except if I exercise to excess -- is gone. I am 57.

Fibrojay

[Guest guest]

>

I made the switch in one day from 187.5 mg of Syntroid to one grain of

Armour and within four weeks was up to 3 grains and I got along VERY

well.

Marti

>

> >

> > Hi:

> > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

> > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only

> > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help the

> > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30

> > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

> >

> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from

> > muscle/joint pain?

> >

> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were

> > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

> > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

> >

> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me

> > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the

> > synthetic reduced?

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the replies. I think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back

to the " dark " place again with undermedication while trying to get

just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think she

has had much experience with this, but she does have a few patients

on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good about

listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.

I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with questions!

Thanks,

> > >

> > > Hi:

> > > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

> > > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's

only

> > > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help

the

> > > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees

for 30

> > > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

> > >

> > > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been

free from

> > > muscle/joint pain?

> > >

> > > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients

were

> > > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

> > > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody

problems.

> > >

> > > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put

me

> > > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> > > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly

and the

> > > synthetic reduced?

> > >

>

[Guest guest]

Then I suggest that you ask the doc to replace 37.5 µg of your T4 med with 30 mg of Armour, stay on dose for 6-10 weeks and retest. Not very many docs are willing to Rx a combination of Armour and synthetics. Waldrop wrote: Thanks for the replies. I think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back to the "dark" place again with undermedication while trying to get just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think she has had much experience with this, but she does have a few patients on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good about listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with questions!Thanks,

Never miss an email again!Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

I did not realize that my feet pain and shoulder pain were related to being hypothyroid either, not until they got better after starting Armour.

Kim

From: Texas_Thyroid_Groups [mailto:Texas_Thyroid_Groups ] On Behalf Of carol77096Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 2:26 PMTo: Texas_Thyroid_Groups Subject: Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

I did have some joint pain I didn't even think was related, thought it was 'arthritis', but it wasn't as severe as yours, it was way down the list of symptoms. It has gone away with Armour, but comes back a little when I need an increase.

I did switch over to Armour from Synthroid cold turkey, but I was on a pretty small dose of Synthroid and switched to 90mg Armour and have been increasing slowly. I was pretty nervous about the switch, but had no problems.

Be sure your adrenals have been tested first in case you need adrenal support at the same time.

Carol

>> Hi:> I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help the > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for 30 > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free from > muscle/joint pain?> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients were > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put me > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and the > synthetic reduced?> > Any help/advise appreciated.> > >

[Guest guest]

That was my story. I didn't realize how much I hurt until most of it went away after getting on Armour. I am still under medicated, I think, but that is because I don't seem to tolerate what I should be on. I never tried synthetics, either, so I can't compare. Terijo

[Guest guest]

Do you have a thyroid or was it surgically removed? I am wondering if

it makes a different on Armour.

> >

> > Hi:

> > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

> > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only

> > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help

the

> > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for

30

> > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

> >

> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free

from

> > muscle/joint pain?

> >

> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients

were

> > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

> > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

> >

> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put

me

> > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and

the

> > synthetic reduced?

> >

> > Any help/advise appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jan:

I am on .94 of Synthroid (88/100 every other day) plus 10 mg of

Cytomel. I just talked to the doctor and she wants to put me on an

equilivent of Armour. I am to go pick up the script tomorrow,

because I want to talk to the pharmacist peronally (and not have the

doc phone it in). She didn't want to mix the synthetic with Armour.

How much Armour would that be? Is there a certain brand I should ask

for? She wants to retest after 4 weeks. Is that a long enough time

frame? - you said 6-10 weeks in previous mail. I thought Armour was

absorbed faster in your system and results would be seen quicker.

Sorry for all the questions. Better I ask NOW and not later! I just

know I am doing the right thing.

The alternative from the doc was to take celebrex!!! I don't want to

do that!

Thanks for the replies. I

think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back

> to the " dark " place again with undermedication while trying to get

> just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think she

> has had much experience with this, but she does have a few patients

> on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good

about

> listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.

> I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with

questions!

> Thanks,

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss an email again!

> Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it

out.

>

[Guest guest]

You want the Armour brand of thyroid. I hope the doc wrote "brand medically necessary." Then you always have to check the pills and make sure you got brand name before leaving the pharmacy. Do this on every fill. The equivalent dose of Armour is approximately 90 mg. Are you a survivor of thyroid cancer? Waldrop wrote: Jan:I am on .94 of Synthroid (88/100 every other day) plus 10 mg of Cytomel. I just talked to the doctor and she wants to put me on an equilivent of Armour. I am to go pick up the script tomorrow, because I want to talk to the pharmacist peronally (and not have the doc phone it in). She didn't want to mix the synthetic with Armour. How much Armour would that be? Is there a certain brand I should ask for? She wants to retest after 4 weeks. Is that a long enough time frame? - you said 6-10 weeks in previous mail. I thought Armour was absorbed faster in your system and results would be seen quicker.Sorry for all the questions. Better I ask NOW and not later! I just know I am doing the right thing.The alternative from the doc was to take celebrex!!! I don't want to do that! Thanks for the replies. I think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back > to the "dark" place again with undermedication while trying to get > just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think she > has had much experience with this, but she does have a few patients > on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good about > listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.> I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with questions!> Thanks,

Be a PS3 game guru.Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at Yahoo! Games.

[Guest guest]

I still have my thyroid.

K.

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Do you have a thyroid or was it surgically removed? I am wondering if it

makes a different on Armour.

> >

> > Hi:

> > I have been on Synthroid and Cytomel for almost 8 weeks now. I

> > thought the addition of T3 would ease my knee pain, but it's only

> > gotten worse. I am doing leg stretching exercises now that help

the

> > flexibility, swelling, and pain, but if I even bend my knees for

30

> > minutes of gardening - I am in excruciating (SP?) pain.

> >

> > Question: Has anyone gone from synthetic to Armour and been free

from

> > muscle/joint pain?

> >

> > I have been reading Lowe's site and he says his patients

were

> > free of pain after 4 weeks after switching to Armour ----if they

> > didn't have other problems such as coritsol or antibody problems.

> >

> > OK! So I think I'm ready to make the switch. My doctor will put

me

> > on Armour if I want. Can I switch over all at once to the same

> > equivilent dose of Armour, or does it have to be added slowly and

the

> > synthetic reduced?

> >

> > Any help/advise appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I had Medullary Cancer that was contained in the thyroid and had

not spread to my lymph nodes. I was so very blessed to say the least.

I still have to go to MD every year and do cancer testing

tho. How about you?

Does it make a difference whether a person without a thyroid takes

natural or synthetic hormones? I wouldn't think it would matter which

one as long as it's hormone.

I am on such a low dose of Cytomel, I am wondering if adding more

Cytomel would solve my joint pain - instead of having to switch meds.

Can you tell I am in a panic!?

Seems like some people on Armour have joint pain also. Maybe the

joint pain is from undermedication! I have been reading Lowe's

site and he has some interesting articles (just enough info to peak

your interest in buying something). I wish all these people weren't

out to sell their books or get consulting fees!

Well, wish me luck! I just know I'm going to get better!

Thanks for the replies. I

> think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back

> > to the " dark " place again with undermedication while trying to

get

> > just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think

she

> > has had much experience with this, but she does have a few

patients

> > on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good

> about

> > listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.

> > I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with

> questions!

> > Thanks,

>

> ---------------------------------

> Be a PS3 game guru.

> Get your game face on with the latest PS3 news and previews at

Yahoo! Games.

>

[Guest guest]

I had forgotten that it was medullary. Though the folks on the Thyca site will tell you otherwise, Armour is just fine for thycans. Although TSH suppression is not required for medullary, any thyroid cancer is a risk factor for all others. For that reason, I would want to keep the TSH suppressed anyway, if you can tolerate suppression. The only testing I get is an ultrasound and serum thyroglobulin. I never had RAI and I still have one quarter of my thyroid gland. At this point, suppression is my only treatment. Your Free T3 levels on the new dose will be valid at 3-4 weeks. That is probably what she wants to test. You may need to get to your optimal dose before your pain is relieved. Waldrop wrote: Yes, I had Medullary Cancer that was contained in the thyroid and had not spread to my lymph nodes. I was so very blessed to say the least. I still have to go to MD every year and do cancer testing tho. How about you?Does it make a difference whether a person without a thyroid takes natural or synthetic hormones? I wouldn't think it would matter which one as long as it's hormone.I am on such a low dose of Cytomel, I am wondering if adding more Cytomel would solve my joint pain - instead of having to switch meds. Can you tell I am in

a panic!? Seems like some people on Armour have joint pain also. Maybe the joint pain is from undermedication! I have been reading Lowe's site and he has some interesting articles (just enough info to peak your interest in buying something). I wish all these people weren't out to sell their books or get consulting fees!Well, wish me luck! I just know I'm going to get better!> Jan:>

I am on .94 of Synthroid (88/100 every other day) plus 10 mg of > Cytomel. I just talked to the doctor and she wants to put me on an > equilivent of Armour. I am to go pick up the script tomorrow, > because I want to talk to the pharmacist peronally (and not have the > doc phone it in). She didn't want to mix the synthetic with Armour. > > How much Armour would that be? Is there a certain brand I should ask > for? She wants to retest after 4 weeks. Is that a long enough time > frame? - you said 6-10 weeks in previous mail. I thought Armour was > absorbed faster in your system and results would be seen quicker.> > Sorry for all the questions. Better I ask NOW and not later! I just > know I am doing the right thing.> > The alternative from the doc was to take celebrex!!! I don't want to > do that!> >

Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

At my last labs on 1/5 my Free T3 was 3.2 (2.3-4.2) and my Free T4

was 1.23 (.73-1.95) and TSH 0.1 (0.3- 5.1). Will my Free T3 go a lot

higher on Armour?

> > Jan:

> > I am on .94 of Synthroid (88/100 every other day) plus 10 mg of

> > Cytomel. I just talked to the doctor and she wants to put me on

an

> > equilivent of Armour. I am to go pick up the script tomorrow,

> > because I want to talk to the pharmacist peronally (and not have

> the

> > doc phone it in). She didn't want to mix the synthetic with

Armour.

> >

> > How much Armour would that be? Is there a certain brand I should

> ask

> > for? She wants to retest after 4 weeks. Is that a long enough

time

> > frame? - you said 6-10 weeks in previous mail. I thought Armour

was

> > absorbed faster in your system and results would be seen quicker.

> >

> > Sorry for all the questions. Better I ask NOW and not later! I

just

> > know I am doing the right thing.

> >

> > The alternative from the doc was to take celebrex!!! I don't want

> to

> > do that!

> >

> >

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

[Guest guest]

Be sure the doc writes Brand Medically Necessary or they will probably try to give you a generic. Look in Photos, Pill Images to see what real Armour looks like. It's not a remote possibility, it happens all the time.

Carol

Thanks for the replies. I > think I'm mentally ready. I hate to go back > > to the "dark" place again with undermedication while trying to get > > just the right dose.....but I'll talk to my doc. I don't think she > > has had much experience with this, but she does have a few patients > > on Armour...which she prefers over synthetic. She is very good > about > > listening to how I feel and is not obsessed with the labs.> > I'll let you know how I do. I'm sure I'll be back here with > questions!> > Thanks, > > > > ---------------------------------> > Never miss an email again!> > Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. Check it > out.> >>

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some

research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my

questions--as well as raise some more.

I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but in

truth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreated

adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!

At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time

and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be

trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially,

what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid

medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter

of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll

start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better

for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme

fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms,

though, as far as I can tell.

This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and

regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and

thus suppressed frees, too.

Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does.

I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and

now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel

like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired.

I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too

fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors

routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose.

Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all

previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent

attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me

to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am

not having any hyper symptoms.

My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May

14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my

appointment.

Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.

Kathleen

>

> I am one who made a gradual switch. I went from 300 µg of $ynthroid

to 180 mg of Armour plus 75 µg of $ynthroid. I thought that I was

being very conservative in taking a full four weeks to do this. But

that was actually a pretty fast increase on the Armour. But I had no

problem and I accomplished what I set out to do, which was to avoid

being over- or under-medicated while increasing to my optimal dose of

Armour.

>

> If you switch to straight Armour, it is generally advisable to

start with a lower dose of Armour. Our two favorite docs start most

folks on either 90 or 120 mg or occasionally 180 mg of Armour

regardless of their previous dose of the T4 med.

>

> There are two problems with trying to switch from a full dose of

levothyroxine to a full equivalent dose of Armour cold turkey

overnight:

>

> 1. You could have hyper-like (adrenal) symptoms, since you are

not used to the T3.

>

> 2. The equivalency charts are not very good, because the apples

don't always equal the oranges. What you may need, and can tolerate,

is highly individual.

>

> There is no one right way to switch to Armour. If your doc has

experience with Armour, he will generally have a protocol for making

the switch. And being a good compliant patient who is grateful for

the Armour Rx, you will do it how the doc asks you to do it.

>

> If your doc has no experience, but is willing to work with you on

this, I would suggest asking for enough of the 30 mg tablets to equal

your equivalent dose using 60 mg of Armour = between 74 and 100 µg

of T4 only. But start with 30 mg twice a day. You may be able to

proceed to your full dose rather quickly or you may have to move in

15 mg increments.

>

> The Armour prescribing info is extremely conservative,

recommending starting with 30 mg and making 15 mg increases every two

weeks. This will leave many folks jumping up and down and begging for

an increase.

>

> Joint pain was the first symptom to leave just ten days into the

Armour. Muscle cramps and fatigue took a little longer to

dissipate.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would strongly recommend that you stick with the dose your doc prescribed until you have a chance to discuss changes with him. At the very least, call , email or fax him and tell him what you would like to try. We do not recommend self-medication and cannot advise you on adjusting your own dose.keickholt13 wrote: Hello,I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my questions--as well as raise some more.I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but in truth, it really seems I was only

*sensitive* because I had untreated adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially, what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms, though, as far as I can tell.This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and thus suppressed frees, too.Now I'm trying again, armed

with this knowledge of what my body does. I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired. I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose. Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am not having any hyper symptoms.My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May 14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my appointment. Thank you very, very much in advance for any and

all responses.Kathleen>> I am one who made a gradual switch. I went from 300 µg of $ynthroid to 180 mg of Armour plus 75 µg of $ynthroid. I thought that I was being very conservative in taking a full four weeks to do this. But that was actually a pretty fast increase on the Armour. But I had no problem and I accomplished what I set out to do, which was to avoid being over- or under-medicated while increasing to my optimal dose of Armour. > > If you switch to straight Armour, it is generally advisable to start with a lower dose of Armour. Our two favorite docs start most folks on either 90 or 120 mg or occasionally 180 mg of Armour regardless of their previous dose of the T4 med.> > There are two problems with trying to switch from a full dose of levothyroxine to a full equivalent dose of Armour

cold turkey overnight: > > 1. You could have hyper-like (adrenal) symptoms, since you are not used to the T3.> > 2. The equivalency charts are not very good, because the apples don't always equal the oranges. What you may need, and can tolerate, is highly individual.> > There is no one right way to switch to Armour. If your doc has experience with Armour, he will generally have a protocol for making the switch. And being a good compliant patient who is grateful for the Armour Rx, you will do it how the doc asks you to do it. > > If your doc has no experience, but is willing to work with you on this, I would suggest asking for enough of the 30 mg tablets to equal your equivalent dose using 60 mg of Armour = between 74 and 100 µg of T4 only. But start with 30 mg twice a day. You may be able to proceed to your full dose rather quickly or you may have to move in 15 mg

increments.> > The Armour prescribing info is extremely conservative, recommending starting with 30 mg and making 15 mg increases every two weeks. This will leave many folks jumping up and down and begging for an increase.> > Joint pain was the first symptom to leave just ten days into the Armour. Muscle cramps and fatigue took a little longer to dissipate.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check out

new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Guest guest]

Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets me do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.

I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specifically to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.

Thank you. I value your opinion.

Re: Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

I would strongly recommend that you stick with the dose your doc prescribed until you have a chance to discuss changes with him. At the very least, call , email or fax him and tell him what you would like to try.

We do not recommend self-medication and cannot advise you on adjusting your own dose.keickholt13 <keickholt13comcast (DOT) net> wrote:

Hello,I'm replying to this old post because I was trying to do some research on Armour dosing and this seemed to answer some of my questions--as well as raise some more.I have told some people I was sensitive to thyroid meds, but in truth, it really seems I was only *sensitive* because I had untreated adrenal insufficiency. I would get hyper on 15 mg of Armour!At any rate, my doctor has been treating my adrenals for some time and that no longer seems to be an issue. Now I am supposed to be trying to get onto thyroid meds. I have had some snafus. Bascially, what happens is that my pituitary seems sensitive to the thryoid medicine. It seems to suppress my thyroid production within a matter of days of starting thyroid meds. So, what has happened is that I'll start out with a low dose, say only 30 mg Armour. I feel much better for about 2 days, then I feel TERRIBLY hypo again with extreme fatigue, headaches and muscle aches. No adrenal fatigue symptoms, though, as far as I can tell.This happened twice and I stopped the meds to see the doctor and regroup. We took labs and saw what was happening, suppressed TSH and thus suppressed frees, too.Now I'm trying again, armed with this knowledge of what my body does. I started at 30 mg Armour, 2 days later had to go up to 60 mg and now, at about 12 days into Armour, I am having to take 90 and I feel like I could use even more as I still get pretty tired. I'm not getting any hyper symptoms, but I'm worried I'm rushing too fast. But then I read this post and how 2 recommended doctors routinely start people at 120 or even 180, regardless of past dose. Would that include someone who wasn't on thyroid meds at all previously? (I haven't been for some time, except my recent attempts.) Because if that is true, I'm wondering if it's okay for me to just go up to 120 and maybe even the 180 if I feel I need and am not having any hyper symptoms.My doctor knows I am trying to take the meds and I see him on May 14th, so I'd like to have tried a few things before I go in for my appointment. Thank you very, very much in advance for any and all responses.Kathleen>> I am one who made a gradual switch. I went from 300 µg of $ynthroid to 180 mg of Armour plus 75 µg of $ynthroid. I thought that I was being very conservative in taking a full four weeks to do this. But that was actually a pretty fast increase on the Armour. But I had no problem and I accomplished what I set out to do, which was to avoid being over- or under-medicated while increasing to my optimal dose of Armour. > > If you switch to straight Armour, it is generally advisable to start with a lower dose of Armour. Our two favorite docs start most folks on either 90 or 120 mg or occasionally 180 mg of Armour regardless of their previous dose of the T4 med.> > There are two problems with trying to switch from a full dose of levothyroxine to a full equivalent dose of Armour cold turkey overnight: > > 1. You could have hyper-like (adrenal) symptoms, since you are not used to the T3.> > 2. The equivalency charts are not very good, because the apples don't always equal the oranges. What you may need, and can tolerate, is highly individual.> > There is no one right way to switch to Armour. If your doc has experience with Armour, he will generally have a protocol for making the switch. And being a good compliant patient who is grateful for the Armour Rx, you will do it how the doc asks you to do it. > > If your doc has no experience, but is willing to work with you on this, I would suggest asking for enough of the 30 mg tablets to equal your equivalent dose using 60 mg of Armour = between 74 and 100 µg of T4 only. But start with 30 mg twice a day. You may be able to proceed to your full dose rather quickly or you may have to move in 15 mg increments.> > The Armour prescribing info is extremely conservative, recommending starting with 30 mg and making 15 mg increases every two weeks. This will leave many folks jumping up and down and begging for an increase.> > Joint pain was the first symptom to leave just ten days into the Armour. Muscle cramps and fatigue took a little longer to dissipate.

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/787 - Release Date: 5/3/2007 2:11 PM

[Guest guest]

Having your doc's permission to self-adjust makes this a whole different ball game. I have a similar arrangement.

In that case, I would suggest getting to about 120 mg rather quickly, but then stay on that dose for 6-8 weeks and then get tested before doing any further tweaking. It takes that long to get the full effect of a dose.

Flitting around from one dose to another does not give you realistic information. Furthermore, every change in dosage is a stress on your adrenals.

>> Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets me do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specifically to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > Thank you. I value your opinion.

[Guest guest]

You have a similar arrangement? It's nice to have a doctor respect you, isn't it?

Thank you for helping me. It's much appreciated, truly.

How quickly is rather quickly? I have been moving up by 15-30 mg approximately every 3 days without any problems. I have been on 90 mg for about 4 days now, so I could move up to 120 tomorrow even. So I guess I won't be at 120 mg long enough for the full effect when I see my doctor on the 14th, but I hope to have been on it long enough to be able to tell him something, including the fact that the low dose made me feel worse and I had to move up rather quickly. That should be helpful information, I would hope.I will take your advice and stay at the 120 mg (assuming my doctor agrees with this does, of course), for the 6-8 weeks before retesting. And yes, I don't need any more adrenal stress. Been there and it's not fun.

Thanks, Jan!

Re: Knee pain-May be ready for Armour

Having your doc's permission to self-adjust makes this a whole different ball game. I have a similar arrangement.

In that case, I would suggest getting to about 120 mg rather quickly, but then stay on that dose for 6-8 weeks and then get tested before doing any further tweaking. It takes that long to get the full effect of a dose.

Flitting around from one dose to another does not give you realistic information. Furthermore, every change in dosage is a stress on your adrenals.

>> Well, that's the problem. He hasn't prescribed a specific dose. He just told me to try 30 mg and go from there based on how I feel. He is pretty open minded and is actually okay with me trying things on my own. In fact, he actually encourages me to adjust my Cortef and Florinef based on what kind of day I am having, i.e., relaxed day, less Cortef, stressful day, take a bit more. Same with Florinef. And I certainly don't mean to brag, but he was impressed with what I had learned and was doing before I saw him. I gave him my whole history and how I had finally resorted to self treatment before finding him as I couldn't get anyone to treat my adrenals. He told me, based on everything I had told him, that he "would have done the same thing." Lucikly, I don't have to self-treat anymore, but he still lets e do a lot of things on my own. This is helpful because I can then go back to him and say "X didn't work, this happened, what should we try now?" Then we both decide together what is going on and where to go from there.> > I was hoping to have tried out some doses of Armour so I could tell him what was happening before I saw him again. However, your idea about faxing or emailing him with my concerns makes sense. The problem I had with his office before is that when I had a terrible reaction last time, the office staff, while usually good, basically refused to just have him give me a call back as to whether I should continue the thyroid meds or keep taking them. They insisted on just making an appointment for me! Luckily, they had a cancellation so I got in within a week, but it was a week of sheer hell, let me tell you. I did mention this to him about the staff, but he didn't say anything and I didn't press it. > > However, I can try again by sending a fax and putting it specificlly to his attention. He is very caring and attentive and I think he would have called me back if he'd known I'd been asking for that.> > Thank you. I value your opinion.

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.2/787 - Release Date: 5/3/2007 2:11 PM