Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 << " I'M JUST WONDERING, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU , FOR ME TO BE HEALED OF BPD? I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS , WHAT SIGNS DO YOU NEED TO SEE TO BE CONVINCED OF MY HEALING ? I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW. MOM " >> I can only think of one sentence. " Accept me and love me the way I am " . - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I'd have to agree with Dan. Tell your mom your door is always open to people who want to be your friend. That means accept you for who you are, and take responsibility for her actions. Forget that she's your " mom " . How would she behave if she saw you for the person you are. How would she behave if she wanted to endear herself to you and be your friend. So in other words, does she want to be your friend? Ask her this: what are the qualities about me that you like? I bet it will stump her. Beth > My nada is attempting to weasel her way back into my life by just > wanting to let go of the past and move forward. I decided to address > the issue that I think she has the traits of someone with bpd. I > told her I could have no contact with her until she sought help. I > included a portion of the message from A.J. who has recovered from > bpd. A.J. had explained about what a non bp needs to do. Take care > of ourselves, take time, space, distance from the bp. She explained > a whole dynamics of her inner struggle and getting help. I told my > mom I was very serious about this. She emailed me back and said " I'm > very sorry you see me that way " " You did say that you loved me, but > what are your other feelings? Do you have other feelings? " Then > about 1/2 hour later she sent another email that said the following: > > " I'M JUST WONDERING, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU , FOR ME TO BE > HEALED OF BPD? I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS , WHAT SIGNS DO YOU NEED > TO SEE TO BE CONVINCED OF MY HEALING ? I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW. > MOM " > > So my question is... does anyone recognize what might be possibly > going on in her right now by what she said? Why would she be asking > me this? She's appearing to be calm, cool and collect. It appears > that she wants to know what I think. But I find that interesting > because she has never wanted to hear anything I have to say. I'm > tempted to respond, but then I would be going back on my boundary to > not have contact until she seeks help. I have that hope of " wow, > maybe she really cares and is analyzing herself. " Chances are if I > respond she will twist with my mind and cause me to doubt myself once > again. > > I had also told her I was so serious about all this that I belonged > to a support group for non bp's. I didn't tell her it was online. > She replied: " That's nice. I'd like to go with you sometime " . What > the heck is that all about? > > Anyone out there that might be able to make sense of this? I am > really struggling right now. > > Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 It's interesting though because my mother has said she wants me to accept her the way she is and treat her well. So do I accept her outbursts, her constant insistince on hashing things over and over. It sounds fair and logical my mother accept me and I accept her. But we are at this point in our relationship because I do not accept her behavior. Our whole relationship escalated to this point and I got fed up when my mother got angry that I was considering letting a 13 year old little girl (who is like a daughter to me. My husband and I have attempted to adopt her a couple of times. And even recently it is open again to a possibility of her coming to live with us permanently) be in the delivery room with us when our first child was born and my mother wanted to be in there too. I told her I really only wanted to be my husband and I but we were considering making an exception for " our girl " because we wanted her to feel loved and know that even though this baby was coming into the picture she was still going to be apart of our lives. (she is a little girl who has never known who her father is and has very little contact with her mother whose legal rights were taken away.) My husband and I look at it that she was put into our lives for a reason and we want to be there for her as those parents she never had as much as we possibly can. Anyway, my mom was just furious. She kept wanting to discuss it, hash it over, question me, yell at me, tell me she is nothing like a daughter to me. She kept going at it from every angle over days, months and weeks. I got sick of it. So, is that how I accept her? By saying " oh okay mom if you want to be in the delivery room then come on in " . She says she wants acceptance. I don't get it. It's funny because that's what I want. I'm 32 years old. I want my mom to back off, be my friend, and accept my choices and not question or argue. I honestly shut down trying to show much empathy towards her because if I do she will say " oh so you would feel the same way wouldn't you. " She wants me to agree with her that I would feel the same way she does in the same situation. I came to the point of being tired of hearing her feelings because it seemed to become a game of control that when the delivery issue came up - I didn't expressed much understanding. I just simply want to make decisions for my life and have her accept it and it not always be about her needs and feelings. One more question I have for the group. I read SWOE about 3 months ago. Is Understanding Borderline Mother different. Would you recommend I get this or does it cover the same stuff as SWOE? Thanks so much for your input and listening. > >Reply-To: ModOasis >To: ModOasis >Subject: Re: struggling-need input >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:02:47 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Leah, Accepting your mother as she is does not mean accepting her abusive behavior. There is a difference. I wish my mother would accept me as an imperfect human being, who makes mistakes occasionally, and who tries to have an identity separate from hers. If I were being abusive to her, I would have no right to expect her to accept it. That is not the same as accepting me. It isn't as simple as that, though. My mother says that I am being abusive to her any time I express an opinion that differs from hers, or if I say that I have a right to feel anger at times. The only way I can stop this " abusive behavior " , without selling my soul, is to have no contact with her. I especially recommend " Understanding the Borderline Mother " . It deals specifically with the mother, and the damage she did in the past as well as in the present. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Okay everyone I have another question. My mother is up to something I don't if it is a game or truly real and sincere. It makes me nervous. I told her in order to have a relationship I needed her to seek help for her traits of bpd. She has retaliated by email and has said that she is not a crazy lady (which I never called her that). But, now, today, she has called me at least 10 times in the last 2 1/2 hours and I have not picked up the phone. She finally left a message and asked me a question. She understands that what I need her to do is if she wants to have a relationship is seek help. She knows I do not care for the counselor she has been seeing. So she wants to know who I might recommend. She says she is willing to give it a try and doesn't have a problem in checking things out. This is totally not like her. I'm afraid somehow she is setting me up for something. Maybe somehow this will get all turned on me. I know how she twists things. I'm afraid she'll lie about things. Help? > >Reply-To: ModOasis >To: ModOasis >Subject: Re: struggling-need input >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:31:32 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Leah, My first question is ...Is she seeking help currently and is it true that you don't like who she is seeing? I am fairly new to this group..but I have been watching your posts anxious to read what others have to say. When I read your posts of what is going on...my warning signals and lights start flashing...lol If this were happening to me with my nada...I would wonder what game she was playing now. I would try to guess what her next step would be...when I look at what you wrote I think...ok next she is going to suggest we go together! Then try and make it out to be all you. It is so hard to second guess what others would do...you probably have a clearer picture of what your nada is capable of, and my only suggestion is to go with your gut feelings. My nada tries to periodically engage me in something. We haven't talked in years but she tries it by going through my siblings. She will say something...a dig, insult, tell them a story which is totally fabricated...etc....so they will ask me about it. To see if there is a response. Hang in there...if the person she is seeing is not someone you like...suggest she get a recommendation from her physician...(maybe she is feeling you out to see if you are seeing someone?) If it's not true..then tell her to see whom ever she prefers and is comfortable with. Only my opinion...but I think as long as she is stating that she is willing to do it...then continue limited talk, email...whatever but do set boundries. Nothing is written in stone..and you hold the key to deciding when too much is too much. Take a day...or two to think things through...Stay Calm...my hardest thing is to not react in the moment...I really have had to work on that...but it works much better for me. If she is BPD it will come out..even when she is playing a role. Good Luck B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thank you for the feedback " b " . My mother has seen a counselor off and on for years. I don't know if he has ever mentioned bpd to her. I'm skeptical of him because he has done some things that seem odd to me. Like one time when my mother and I were at it again, her counselor called to give me his perspective and went on to tell me of my mothers fragile state. He had only heard her side of things when he wanted to give his perspective and didn't even offer to let me share my side of how I was seeing things. I thought that was strange. Also, one time a long time ago, I had mentioned to my mom I was going to go see a counselor and she was insisting I go to her counselor because he was just the best. She actually had her counselor to call me and he did call. He said he wanted to explain that if I did want to see someone else how important it was that I went to someone who had a masters degree. (Which I agree is important, but what business was that of my mother's or his to be butting their noses in this area of my life-I didn't ask for this input). That's why I think something is strange with the counselor she is seeing. I don't even know if he knows about bpd. > >Reply-To: ModOasis >To: ModOasis >Subject: Re: struggling-need input >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:05:13 -0000 > _________________________________________________________________ High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I recommend highly " Understanding the Borderline Mother. " I've just read it and it has made an enormous difference in teh way I view my relationship with my mother. I feel a great deal freer, less guilty, less crazy. > It's interesting though because my mother has said she wants me to accept > her the way she is and treat her well. So do I accept her outbursts, her > constant insistince on hashing things over and over. It sounds fair and > logical my mother accept me and I accept her. But we are at this point in > our relationship because I do not accept her behavior. Our whole > relationship escalated to this point and I got fed up when my mother got > angry that I was considering letting a 13 year old little girl (who is like > a daughter to me. My husband and I have attempted to adopt her a couple of > times. And even recently it is open again to a possibility of her coming to > live with us permanently) be in the delivery room with us when our first > child was born and my mother wanted to be in there too. I told her I really > only wanted to be my husband and I but we were considering making an > exception for " our girl " because we wanted her to feel loved and know that > even though this baby was coming into the picture she was still going to be > apart of our lives. (she is a little girl who has never known who her > father is and has very little contact with her mother whose legal rights > were taken away.) My husband and I look at it that she was put into our > lives for a reason and we want to be there for her as those parents she > never had as much as we possibly can. Anyway, my mom was just furious. She > kept wanting to discuss it, hash it over, question me, yell at me, tell me > she is nothing like a daughter to me. She kept going at it from every angle > over days, months and weeks. I got sick of it. So, is that how I accept > her? By saying " oh okay mom if you want to be in the delivery room then > come on in " . She says she wants acceptance. I don't get it. It's funny > because that's what I want. I'm 32 years old. I want my mom to back off, > be my friend, and accept my choices and not question or argue. I honestly > shut down trying to show much empathy towards her because if I do she will > say " oh so you would feel the same way wouldn't you. " She wants me to agree > with her that I would feel the same way she does in the same situation. I > came to the point of being tired of hearing her feelings because it seemed > to become a game of control that when the delivery issue came up - I didn't > expressed much understanding. I just simply want to make decisions for my > life and have her accept it and it not always be about her needs and > feelings. > > One more question I have for the group. I read SWOE about 3 months ago. Is > Understanding Borderline Mother different. Would you recommend I get this > or does it cover the same stuff as SWOE? > > Thanks so much for your input and listening. > > > >From: " bethdibella " <bdibella@h...> > >Reply-To: ModOasis > >To: ModOasis > >Subject: Re: struggling-need input > >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 11:02:47 -0000 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local > service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 -Well heck! That blows my suggestion out of the water - to suggest, based on her email of what would show you she is better... that you would want that confirmed by a counselor. If he counselor is flakey - that won't help much. And getting involved in selecting a different counselor is probably not anywhere you would want to go. I know it is difficult to take this stuff on ourselves - as it was often unfairly put on us... but in a way - that might work better.. to say, in essence " It's not you - it's me " Well really you would be saying " It's not you - it's me (because of you) " It is kind of like if you tell your mother you don't want to have contact with her UNTIL she gets help - it can keep you sucked into the loop of her trying to convince you that she has gotten better - and can often put you in a catch 22.. because if you say you will have contact if she gets help and she says she did get help - then it puts you right back into the position of trying to decide if she is better or not... and her playing the Ace card that you pretty much promised contact if she did. But if you could tell her " I just can't have contact with you right now because of ME - because I am struggling with all the things YOU put me through - and it is better not to cause any more harm until I get through this... " it seems like it would give you more ROOM and power to decide what YOU want at any given time. If she tries to convince you she is better and you are not convinced - you won't have to feel as pressured to honor the agreement (because you didn't make one). You can still say " That's nice that you are better - *I* still need more time. On the other hand - if you DO decide to have contact at any given time - it is a " treat " more than a guarantee to her. You can have brief or limited contact - but how YOU feel at any given time determines the type and amount of contact - not how much improvement she says she made. I know this may be hard as it might seem to play right into her hand of saying there is something wrong with you... but since she IS, in essence, what is " wrong with you " it seems to be the same argument, but giving you more power over the interactions. Good luck, a wish, and a prayer.. Free -- In ModOasis , " Leah Sellars " <leeber7@m...> wrote: > Thank you for the feedback " b " . My mother has seen a counselor off and on > for years. I don't know if he has ever mentioned bpd to her. I'm skeptical > of him because he has done some things that seem odd to me. Like one time > when my mother and I were at it again, her counselor called to give me his > perspective and went on to tell me of my mothers fragile state. He had only > heard her side of things when he wanted to give his perspective and didn't > even offer to let me share my side of how I was seeing things. I thought > that was strange. Also, one time a long time ago, I had mentioned to my mom > I was going to go see a counselor and she was insisting I go to her > counselor because he was just the best. She actually had her counselor to > call me and he did call. He said he wanted to explain that if I did want to > see someone else how important it was that I went to someone who had a > masters degree. (Which I agree is important, but what business was that of > my mother's or his to be butting their noses in this area of my life-I > didn't ask for this input). That's why I think something is strange with > the counselor she is seeing. I don't even know if he knows about bpd. > > > >From: " oldmominor " <oldmominor@y...> > >Reply-To: ModOasis > >To: ModOasis > >Subject: Re: struggling-need input > >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:05:13 -0000 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local > service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 -Gosh!! Isn't it horrible that they have acted in such ways that even if they DID mean well we have to question that... Do you actually have a counselor to recommend? If so... why not. Counselor shopping is not a fun thing. I know I always wanted to scope out any counselors I took my son to first to save us the frustration of my son having to go through an initial visit with some Bozo.. So - if it were me, and I really DID have a counselor I thought was fantastic - then I would definately recommend him/her. If she decided she didn't like them and wanted to blame you for that - it would be a sign that she is NOT better. But if I didn't have one in mind - I don't think I would do the " shopping " for her... if I did not trust her motives in asking for a recomendation. If she is honestly seeking help - she will find someone who will help her and not just " fluff her feathers " If she seeks out " feather fluffers " then she is not really trying to get better. You could ask others for recommendations also - and just give her a list of some you have heard are good - with a disclaimer. I do think it is important that a BP get the RIGHT help. Yet she does have access to resources, just as you do. You might also want to give it a little time - to see if she holds to this idea of getting help, or if her story changes in the next day or so. Free -- In ModOasis , " Leah Sellars " <leeber7@m...> wrote: > Okay everyone I have another question. My mother is up to something I don't > if it is a game or truly real and sincere. It makes me nervous. > > I told her in order to have a relationship I needed her to seek help for her > traits of bpd. She has retaliated by email and has said that she is not a > crazy lady (which I never called her that). But, now, today, she has called > me at least 10 times in the last 2 1/2 hours and I have not picked up the > phone. She finally left a message and asked me a question. She understands > that what I need her to do is if she wants to have a relationship is seek > help. She knows I do not care for the counselor she has been seeing. So > she wants to know who I might recommend. She says she is willing to give it > a try and doesn't have a problem in checking things out. This is totally > not like her. I'm afraid somehow she is setting me up for something. Maybe > somehow this will get all turned on me. I know how she twists things. I'm > afraid she'll lie about things. > > Help? > > > >From: " Dan " <danc19fr@y...> > >Reply-To: ModOasis > >To: ModOasis > >Subject: Re: struggling-need input > >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 16:31:32 -0000 > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Instant message in style with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now FREE! > http://msnmessenger-download.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Been there, done that. You are very clever to see it for what it is. Their best chances for " winning " , getting back on top of you, whatever, are by reopening a dialogue. Then you are vulnerable to the guilt tactics, the hopeful child inside that wants it to all go away, every thing about it that makes you feel weak to her. Stand your ground, woman. Tell her (if you feel compelled to answer her at all, that you are only willing to address those answers to her in the presence of a therapist she has been seeing for several months. Stay strong! You aren't alone! > >Reply-To: ModOasis >To: ModOasis >Subject: struggling-need input >Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 04:12:26 -0000 > >My nada is attempting to weasel her way back into my life by just >wanting to let go of the past and move forward. I decided to address >the issue that I think she has the traits of someone with bpd. I >told her I could have no contact with her until she sought help. I >included a portion of the message from A.J. who has recovered from >bpd. A.J. had explained about what a non bp needs to do. Take care >of ourselves, take time, space, distance from the bp. She explained >a whole dynamics of her inner struggle and getting help. I told my >mom I was very serious about this. She emailed me back and said " I'm >very sorry you see me that way " " You did say that you loved me, but >what are your other feelings? Do you have other feelings? " Then >about 1/2 hour later she sent another email that said the following: > > " I'M JUST WONDERING, WHAT WOULD IT LOOK LIKE TO YOU , FOR ME TO BE >HEALED OF BPD? I GUESS WHAT I AM ASKING IS , WHAT SIGNS DO YOU NEED >TO SEE TO BE CONVINCED OF MY HEALING ? I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW. >MOM " > >So my question is... does anyone recognize what might be possibly >going on in her right now by what she said? Why would she be asking >me this? She's appearing to be calm, cool and collect. It appears >that she wants to know what I think. But I find that interesting >because she has never wanted to hear anything I have to say. I'm >tempted to respond, but then I would be going back on my boundary to >not have contact until she seeks help. I have that hope of " wow, >maybe she really cares and is analyzing herself. " Chances are if I >respond she will twist with my mind and cause me to doubt myself once >again. > >I had also told her I was so serious about all this that I belonged >to a support group for non bp's. I didn't tell her it was online. >She replied: " That's nice. I'd like to go with you sometime " . What >the heck is that all about? > >Anyone out there that might be able to make sense of this? I am >really struggling right now. > >Thanks! > > _________________________________________________________________ Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy patented spam protection and more. Sign up now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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