Re: The Dead Nada Society (re: Scout's ?)

[Guest guest]

I have made the communication and left no stone unturned when it came to try and

explain why I needed to be away. I also gave ways that we could stay as a

group--therapy, specific changes in behavior, and I asked for an apology. For

what it's worth, an apology that you have to ask for loses most of it's

redemptive value because the respect is coming only from yourself -- if respect

was on the other side it would be forthcoming. I have gone as far as to

download a list that steps through a good apology that includes amends. It only

p*ssed them off more and led to one of the bigger distortion campaigns. I do

feel better knowing that they know why I am away and there is no doubt to the

why even though it is denied and I have been painted the darkest shade of black.

I don't want the guilt and I want to know that I have communicated fully in the

event that my nada, fada or sista had only a misunderstanding with me and not

BPD. I've given every chance--and each chance has only pulled me out of denial

more. My final communication is this week where I extended the olive branch to

let them know I have reached forgiveness and also apologized for my

participation in an abusive system. On this site, I was able to word it

comfortably as to keep my boundaries in place and not to compromise my point of

view. I tried not to be angry and let them know that they can contact me

anytime and I will talk with them about stepping through a plan for a better

tomorrow. I haven't heard from any of them. I feel good about doing it because

I know that I haven't let pride or anger get in the way of any possible healthy

reconciliation. I am pretty sure that it will never happen but I rest knowing

that I did the absolute best I could and there just wasn't a second agreeable

responsible party to create the desired happy ending. Feel free to critique my

actions and give feedback. tiki

The Dead Nada Society (re: Scout's ?)

scout wrote:

>> I have a question...

Did you ever try to confront her, or at least to outline to her the

ways in which her behaviors had affected your life, or anything

like that? If not, do you wish you had? Not necessarily (actually

not at all) because you thought it would make a difference to her,

but that it would be good for you to tell the one person you could

never be honest with things that you never thought you would?<<

--------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Scout : thoughtful questions. I never confronted nada, who died

in 2000 after a year of chemo and etc. Etc included me commuting out

of state to help take care of her. I don't know why I did that -- my

older enmeshed brother lived with her and could have done it all.

Maybe I had this fantasy she'd somehow " come clean " on her deathbed.

Perhaps terminal illness is not the best time to bring these

questions up. In a few small ways she did make certain concessions,

but that's a longer post for another time.

Sometimes I wish I had " confronted " her, but back then I could

barely get her to talk to me about where she'd like to be buried.

Finally when pressed nada told me she'd be buried next to my late

fada -- in the 70's plots were always sold in doubles, evidently. Of

course in 2000 when the opportunity presented itself (in death,

unfortunately) I wouldn't have known where to begin with the

questions, bcs I didn't know about this group, the light bulb effect

hadn't happened yet and I still believed I'd moved beyond the past

(I hadn't....)

In retrospect -- for the benefit of those with 'living' nadas, I

think it would have been *interesting* to try and tell nada things I

never thought I would/could. Right now I feel I would have gotten a

lot of mileage from a heart felt apology, considering she was

content to let me be adopted by a tribe of Indians rather than do

her job... OTOH, something else tells me trying to communicate

would have been a total waste of time. So I'm still sitting on the

fence ...

hang tough,

~daphne

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

tiki <jgmahalo@e...> wrote:

>> I have made the communication and left no stone unturned when it

came to try and explain why I needed to be away. I also gave ways

that we could stay as a group--therapy, specific changes in

behavior, and I asked for an apology.<<

*Hi Tiki* -- I admire your willingness to try and go the distance.

You must have really wanted things to work out. I'd given up on that

hope a long time ago. The FOO were unwilling to admit there was a

problem despite clear evidence to the contrary.

And Tiki wrote:

>>For what it's worth, an apology that you have to ask for loses

most of it's redemptive value...<<

Makes sense to me oh wise one. ;-)

Tiki wrote:

>>I have gone as far as to download a list that steps through a good

apology that includes amends.<<

Favor por favor? Tiki would you mind posting this list or emailing

to me directly : dbmojo@... Thank you much!

Tiki wrote:

>>It only p*ssed them off more and led to one of the bigger

distortion campaigns...I've given every chance--and each chance has

only pulled me out of denial more.<<

Ouch! So maybe the answer Scout's question is it's simply not worth

the trouble.

Tiki wrote:

>> My final communication is this week where I extended the olive

branch to let them know I have reached forgiveness and also

apologized for my participation in an abusive system...I haven't

heard from any of them. I feel good about doing it because I know

that I haven't let pride or anger get in the way of any possible

healthy reconciliation.<<

Sounds like a nice thing to do but are you sure you're not a glutton

for punishment? (not trying to sound like a pompous ass here.) Btw:

how did you personally participate in the abusive system? As kids

how can we know about all that? And is " healthy reconciliation "

something we can resonably strive for?

>>I am pretty sure that it will never happen but I rest knowing that

I did the absolute best I could...<<

Good for you -- the knowledge we did/do the best we can/could may

sustain us.

>>Feel free to critique my actions and give feedback. tiki

gave it the old college try despite the brain fog

tonight...~daphne

[Guest guest]

thanks for the nice response. as for the apology, i can't find it, it came

from a magazine called " Bottom Line " basically it said that in making a

good apology you approach the person and say in detail what it is that went

wrong(validation), do not blame anyone(especially the person you are

apologizing to), take responsibility for your actions without making

excuses, say how you will change your behavior so that the wrong behavior

will not happen again, and offer some kind of amends. i think this covers

it. you asked if I wasn't setting myself up for some more pain by reaching

out to my family. the really good news about forgiveness is that you

release expectations. before I was expecting the right answer, this time I

have no expectations and actually think that I will get either no answer or

more judgement and splitting. but i haven't let that fear get in the way of

what I believe is the right thing to do for me. how i participated in the

system--hypervigilance, fighting battles i couldn't win, abandoning, being a

victim, persecutor, and rescuer and writing angry letters stating what

happened. thanks for asking, tiki

Re: The Dead Nada Society (re: Scout's ?)

tiki <jgmahalo@e...> wrote:

>> I have made the communication and left no stone unturned when it

came to try and explain why I needed to be away. I also gave ways

that we could stay as a group--therapy, specific changes in

behavior, and I asked for an apology.<<

*Hi Tiki* -- I admire your willingness to try and go the distance.

You must have really wanted things to work out. I'd given up on that

hope a long time ago. The FOO were unwilling to admit there was a

problem despite clear evidence to the contrary.

And Tiki wrote:

>>For what it's worth, an apology that you have to ask for loses

most of it's redemptive value...<<

Makes sense to me oh wise one. ;-)

Tiki wrote:

>>I have gone as far as to download a list that steps through a good

apology that includes amends.<<

Favor por favor? Tiki would you mind posting this list or emailing

to me directly : dbmojo@... Thank you much!

Tiki wrote:

>>It only p*ssed them off more and led to one of the bigger

distortion campaigns...I've given every chance--and each chance has

only pulled me out of denial more.<<

Ouch! So maybe the answer Scout's question is it's simply not worth

the trouble.

Tiki wrote:

>> My final communication is this week where I extended the olive

branch to let them know I have reached forgiveness and also

apologized for my participation in an abusive system...I haven't

heard from any of them. I feel good about doing it because I know

that I haven't let pride or anger get in the way of any possible

healthy reconciliation.<<

Sounds like a nice thing to do but are you sure you're not a glutton

for punishment? (not trying to sound like a pompous ass here.) Btw:

how did you personally participate in the abusive system? As kids

how can we know about all that? And is " healthy reconciliation "

something we can resonably strive for?

>>I am pretty sure that it will never happen but I rest knowing that

I did the absolute best I could...<<

Good for you -- the knowledge we did/do the best we can/could may

sustain us.

>>Feel free to critique my actions and give feedback. tiki

gave it the old college try despite the brain fog

tonight...~daphne

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to add about an apology....

Showing Remorse...some feeling about the transgression...some

regret....should be part of the process.

Best wishes,

BabaClay

At 08:49 AM 1/22/2004, you wrote:

>thanks for the nice response. as for the apology, i can't find it, it came

>from a magazine called " Bottom Line " basically it said that in making a

>good apology you approach the person and say in detail what it is that went

>wrong(validation), do not blame anyone(especially the person you are

>apologizing to), take responsibility for your actions without making

>excuses, say how you will change your behavior so that the wrong behavior

>will not happen again, and offer some kind of amends. i think this covers

>it. you asked if I wasn't setting myself up for some more pain by reaching

>out to my family. the really good news about forgiveness is that you

>release expectations. before I was expecting the right answer, this time I

>have no expectations and actually think that I will get either no answer or

>more judgement and splitting. but i haven't let that fear get in the way of

>what I believe is the right thing to do for me. how i participated in the

>system--hypervigilance, fighting battles i couldn't win, abandoning, being a

>victim, persecutor, and rescuer and writing angry letters stating what

>happened. thanks for asking, tiki

> Re: The Dead Nada Society (re: Scout's ?)

>

>

> tiki <jgmahalo@e...> wrote:

> >> I have made the communication and left no stone unturned when it

> came to try and explain why I needed to be away. I also gave ways

> that we could stay as a group--therapy, specific changes in

> behavior, and I asked for an apology.<<

>

> *Hi Tiki* -- I admire your willingness to try and go the distance.

> You must have really wanted things to work out. I'd given up on that

> hope a long time ago. The FOO were unwilling to admit there was a

> problem despite clear evidence to the contrary.

>

> And Tiki wrote:

> >>For what it's worth, an apology that you have to ask for loses

> most of it's redemptive value...<<

>

> Makes sense to me oh wise one. ;-)

>

> Tiki wrote:

> >>I have gone as far as to download a list that steps through a good

> apology that includes amends.<<

>

> Favor por favor? Tiki would you mind posting this list or emailing

> to me directly : dbmojo@... Thank you much!

>

> Tiki wrote:

> >>It only p*ssed them off more and led to one of the bigger

> distortion campaigns...I've given every chance--and each chance has

> only pulled me out of denial more.<<

>

> Ouch! So maybe the answer Scout's question is it's simply not worth

> the trouble.

>

> Tiki wrote:

> >> My final communication is this week where I extended the olive

> branch to let them know I have reached forgiveness and also

> apologized for my participation in an abusive system...I haven't

> heard from any of them. I feel good about doing it because I know

> that I haven't let pride or anger get in the way of any possible

> healthy reconciliation.<<

>

> Sounds like a nice thing to do but are you sure you're not a glutton

> for punishment? (not trying to sound like a pompous ass here.) Btw:

> how did you personally participate in the abusive system? As kids

> how can we know about all that? And is " healthy reconciliation "

> something we can resonably strive for?

>

> >>I am pretty sure that it will never happen but I rest knowing that

> I did the absolute best I could...<<

>

> Good for you -- the knowledge we did/do the best we can/could may

> sustain us.

>

> >>Feel free to critique my actions and give feedback. tiki

>

> gave it the old college try despite the brain fog

> tonight...~daphne

>

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

>1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Daphne,

FYI - I DID tell my nada all the things I never thought I would or

could. The result has been that she is telling everyone that I am

crazy and mentally ill and that people should pity me. My younger

brother believes that I am brainwashed by my 'liberal psychiatrist'

(she's a LMHC, and I have no idea what her politics are and I don't

care, either) into believing the things I KNOW happened to me (in

other words, planted memories). My brother insists he 'knows for a

fact' (his all-time favorite phrase) that none of it happened

because 'he was there'. I thought I would get an apology and

hopefully even acknowledgement, but it didn't happen that way, and if

your nada is truly BP, it's a pipe dream. It never would have

happened. After telling my nada my true feelings, I was hoping for a

positive outcome, but I prepared for the worst, which is what

happened. At least now I have all the validation I need that she's

DEFINITELY BP and that I have done all I can to help. I told her I

thought she should seek professional help and even listed some web

sites that were helpful. I also suggested she read the book 'The

Angry Heart', but instead she just keeps telling me she's praying for

me that God will show me what is memory and what is 'imagined'. Now

she just uses God and religion to abuse me which is really

nauseating. I'm telling you this because I think it's safe to say

that it's time to get off the fence. Based on my experience, I don't

think it would have helped, so it's time to let her rest in peace and

you should move on to a more peaceful life and enjoy the time you

have without her. You couldn't have helped her anyway. Sad, but

probably true. Peace.

Tammy

> > In retrospect -- for the benefit of those with 'living' nadas, I

> think it would have been *interesting* to try and tell nada things

I

> never thought I would/could. Right now I feel I would have gotten a

> lot of mileage from a heart felt apology, considering she was

> content to let me be adopted by a tribe of Indians rather than do

> her job... OTOH, something else tells me trying to communicate

> would have been a total waste of time. So I'm still sitting on the

> fence ...

>

> hang tough,

> ~daphne