Re: Edith -- you rang? :)

[Guest guest]

Hi Daphne,

Stepping out for a minute from behind the curtain, being a

psychobiologist I have a special interest in

psychoneuroimmunology (PNI). Its concern is with the

relationship between stress and the mind-body connection - via

the nervous system, endocrine system, and immune system. We have

various immunoglobulins that can become disregulated and walla!

Maybe some day it'll be practical to use IgG (immunoglobulin G)

as an immune system booster in this country (ie, USA). Have your

doctors talked to you about immune system boosters? Do you have

an immunologist? Lots of KOs have hypervigilance and PTSD, as

well as stuff like IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) and lupus,

amongst other conditions. Having a BPD parent can be toxic to a

KO's health. Also, if you find SWOE interesting, you've gotta

read " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (UBM) by

Ann Lawson. It was published in the year 2000. You can buy it

through Amazon.com. SWOE and UBM are the two 'bibles' on this

list. Also, there's a new book titled " Surviving The Borderline

Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust,

Boundaries, and Self-Esteem " by Ross and Friedman that was just

published this year. SWOE was written about high-functioning

BPDs who act out (ie, rage), not acting in BPDs (ie,

self-injurers). The chapters in SWOE that are of interest to KOs

are chapters 1-4 about understanding BPD behavior, and chapters

5-7 re taking back control of your life. And also, chapter 11

about lies, rumors, and distortion campaigns. Also, it helps to

have a therapist who has successfully worked with BPDs and their

family members.

- Edith

rhythm_methd wrote:

> Hi Edith -- I don't mind you asking at all. It's kind of a long

> story tho, and I hope I'm not about to bore everyone with parts of

> it. The syndrome has an idiotic name which doesn't describe it. For

> full details pls email me off list or let me know if it's Ok to go

> into detail here?

>

> In overview: after experiencing a major life stressor at 32 yrs old

> (KO brother in car accident/TBI and major FOO GOO inclding BP nada)

> six months later I came down with something that looked like Mono,

> but didn't resolve...turned into a post viral syndrome {similar to

> Post Polio Syndrome} which then became Myalgic Encephalomielitis or

> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

>

> Symptoms: at first (as in the first *two years*) it was like my

> immune system " went down " and I developed the same things someone

> with A.I.D.S would get - yet I tested negative for AIDS and

> everything else. After a long while, I stopped getting all these

> weird infections and the illness morphed into something more auto-

> immune in nature <g>.

>

> 10 years later it's a lot better. Can't say for sure why, but after

> what I went through I am thankful. True, I have to be vigilent in

> avoiding stress -- keeping toxic people out -- I over hauled my

> lifestyle, etc., etc., but I know of others with the same dx who are

> still 100% disabled. {I went from athlete to 100% disabled for the

> first four years...gradually to now where I'm investigating the

> limits of what's possible/realistic). Maybe return to school seems

> like a healthy thing for this old broad. Either that or join a

> circus. Too old for a tightrope maybe they'd give me a job washing

> the elephants? ;-)

>

> That help some?

>

> Picked up my own copy of SWOE a few days ago and can't seem to put

> it down. That book is just right on the money and damn I wished I'd

> found my way to this group a long time ago. Anyway tried ta give ya

> a rational answer to a very irrational dx -- heh heh. SWOE talks

> about medical problems related to " hypervigilant " immmune

> systems... " hypervigilant " for all the reasons we might guess.

>

> I think that's what happened to me. I believe there's a lot of

> research interest in the the Mind-Body connection as it pertains to

> CFS, bcs cfs is an expensive chronic illness...frequently takes ppl

> out in their prime and they remain disabled for life. No known

> cause....no cure...no available RX's accept to treat symptoms.

> Prognosis unknown. It's a burden to everyone. Still processing what

> I'm reading in SWOE ::: this ain't easy...

>

> Hope some of above post made sense.

>

> Ciao 4 Now, Bella,

>

> ~Daphne

>

[Guest guest]

>> Hi Daphne,

Stepping out for a minute from behind the curtain, being a

psychobiologist I have a special interest in

psychoneuroimmunology (PNI).

Nice ta see ya steppin out, Edith! I've learned a Lot about PNI, and

it's applications..and the study of Biology was my first love...

>> Maybe some day it'll be practical to use IgG (immunoglobulin G)

as an immune system booster in this country (ie, USA). Have your

doctors talked to you about immune system boosters? Do you have

an immunologist?<<

Ok -- I swore I wasn't going to bore the list with medical stories

but yes, I have a good immunologist <finally...> -- THANKS for

asking and offering suggestions. Long story short, I was able to get

ahold of IVIG (how the ins company miraculously paid for it is

another story for another time....) and had the treatment for two

years. I used to credit that therapy for turning the illness around.

Who knows? When the immuno/endo/neuro/HPA Axis turned inward, a new

set of challanges presented: how do we turn this system *off* so it

doesn't target itself? Fortunately, the illness doen't impact my

life that much anymore -- something I live with -- with varying

degrees of success.

>>Lots of KOs have hypervigilance and PTSD, as

well as stuff like IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) and lupus,

amongst other conditions. Having a BPD parent can be toxic to a

KO's health.<<

Yes it surely seems that way....

>>Also, if you find SWOE interesting, you've gotta

read " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (UBM) by

Ann Lawson.<<

Thanks - got it early 2003, read it, and need to revisit it.

Lawson's book perfectly describes my family's dysfunction. yIkEs

(I was split into the 'all bad' kid and played out the role so

perfectly, lol)

>>Also, there's a new book titled " Surviving The Borderline

Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust,

Boundaries, and Self-Esteem " by Ross and Friedman that was just

published this year.<<

Just added to my reading list : sincere thanks for the heads up.

>>SWOE was written about high-functioning

BPDs who act out (ie, rage), not acting in BPDs (ie,

self-injurers). The chapters in SWOE that are of interest to KOs

are chapters 1-4 about understanding BPD behavior, and chapters

5-7 re taking back control of your life. And also, chapter 11

about lies, rumors, and distortion campaigns. Also, it helps to

have a therapist who has successfully worked with BPDs and their

family members.<<

- Edith

_Yeah about therapist -- mine was recommended by treating physician

but I still feel like I lucked out. Edith your 'how to' post about

finding a good therapist when you're dealing with BP issues will no

doubt help many ppl bypass the usual b.s. in the system.

Best, and better,

~daphne

[Guest guest]

Just so you know, I also had CFS for many years. I was lucky enough

that it disappeared during a pregnancy (perhaps a hormone

shift " cured " me). But, I was just mentioning to someone today what

it was like to have had it. I don't think anyone can understand

unless they've experienced it themselves. So, I'm letting you know

that I sympathize and relate with your experience. I'm glad that you

have improved to the point of better functioning. 4 years of being

disabled is very difficult to cope with, to say the least. In my

experience, I think my hyper-vigilance was very much a part of the

cause of getting CFS, too. My heart goes out to you,

Kya-Amorita

> In overview: after experiencing a major life stressor at 32 yrs old

> (KO brother in car accident/TBI and major FOO GOO inclding BP nada)

> six months later I came down with something that looked like Mono,

> but didn't resolve...turned into a post viral syndrome {similar to

> Post Polio Syndrome} which then became Myalgic Encephalomielitis or

> Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

[Guest guest]

Edith wrote:

" Stepping out for a minute from behind the curtain, being a psychobiologist

I have a special interest in psychoneuroimmunology (PNI). Its concern is

with the relationship between stress and the mind-body connection - via the

nervous system, endocrine system, and immune system. "

I'm an ex-medical librarian who has multiple sclerosis, while my sister (no

genetic relationship as she was adopted) - has severe rheumatoid arthritis,

asthma and allergies. I stumbled over PNI while gambolling in the National

Library of Medicine database, and I find the evidence compelling.

Along the same lines, re. a BPD-related behaviour - obsessive cleanliness -

there's also the hygiene hypothesis, which proposes that the ever-increasing

incidence of autoimmune disorders may be linked to excessive cleanliness

during childhood, which doesn't allow the child's immune system to have

sufficient contact with germs & viruses & other bugs. This means that the

child's immune system doesn't have the opportunity to learn what and how to

attack...and it doesn't have sufficient challenges in its environment to

keep it busy...so it attacks the child's own body.

I tend to believe that both apply in my case. Now that I'm farming & being

exposed to all kinds of bugs on a daily basis, my MS stays in

remission...unless I have to spend time with nada, in which case my balance

& endurance soon take a hike and cognitive problems come on like gangbusters

within an hour of so of listening to her malicious ravings.

So for the sake of my mental and physical health and in response to her

multiple phone calls, on Christmas eve I sent an e-mail to my sis (not sure

if she's BPD, but she's totally guilt-whipped by nada and mimics many of

nada's behaviours) to tell her that I wanted nothing more to do with her

family until she and nada decided to respect my legal right as a Canuck to

freedom of expression & privacy, as well as my right to keep/toss/return

unsolicited gifts without any obligation whatsoever. I reminded her that

even mothers are obliged to respect our constitution, and that there is no

clause saying " except if you're the daughter of L Fincham.... "

Haven't heard a word from either of them since...and I had the most

peaceful, happy Christmas that I've had in decades! Yes, guilty thoughts

are still buzzing around in my head - but when they get too insistent, I say

loudly & firmly " get out of my head, you nasty bitch! You're not in control

of me any more! "

The sentiment hasn't completely sunk in yet...but I know that if I keep

saying those words, they will eventually become my conviction. And until

that happens, I'll just keep focusing on the serenity & sanity of my

newfound nada-free zone!

F :-)

We have

> various immunoglobulins that can become disregulated and walla!

> Maybe some day it'll be practical to use IgG (immunoglobulin G)

> as an immune system booster in this country (ie, USA). Have your

> doctors talked to you about immune system boosters? Do you have

> an immunologist? Lots of KOs have hypervigilance and PTSD, as

> well as stuff like IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) and lupus,

> amongst other conditions. Having a BPD parent can be toxic to a

> KO's health. Also, if you find SWOE interesting, you've gotta

> read " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (UBM) by

> Ann Lawson. It was published in the year 2000. You can buy it

> through Amazon.com. SWOE and UBM are the two 'bibles' on this

> list. Also, there's a new book titled " Surviving The Borderline

> Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust,

> Boundaries, and Self-Esteem " by Ross and Friedman that was just

> published this year. SWOE was written about high-functioning

> BPDs who act out (ie, rage), not acting in BPDs (ie,

> self-injurers). The chapters in SWOE that are of interest to KOs

> are chapters 1-4 about understanding BPD behavior, and chapters

> 5-7 re taking back control of your life. And also, chapter 11

> about lies, rumors, and distortion campaigns. Also, it helps to

> have a therapist who has successfully worked with BPDs and their

> family members.

>

> - Edith

>

> rhythm_methd wrote:

>

> > Hi Edith -- I don't mind you asking at all. It's kind of a long

> > story tho, and I hope I'm not about to bore everyone with parts of

> > it. The syndrome has an idiotic name which doesn't describe it. For

> > full details pls email me off list or let me know if it's Ok to go

> > into detail here?

> >

> > In overview: after experiencing a major life stressor at 32 yrs old

> > (KO brother in car accident/TBI and major FOO GOO inclding BP nada)

> > six months later I came down with something that looked like Mono,

> > but didn't resolve...turned into a post viral syndrome {similar to

> > Post Polio Syndrome} which then became Myalgic Encephalomielitis or

> > Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

> >

> > Symptoms: at first (as in the first *two years*) it was like my

> > immune system " went down " and I developed the same things someone

> > with A.I.D.S would get - yet I tested negative for AIDS and

> > everything else. After a long while, I stopped getting all these

> > weird infections and the illness morphed into something more auto-

> > immune in nature <g>.

> >

> > 10 years later it's a lot better. Can't say for sure why, but after

> > what I went through I am thankful. True, I have to be vigilent in

> > avoiding stress -- keeping toxic people out -- I over hauled my

> > lifestyle, etc., etc., but I know of others with the same dx who are

> > still 100% disabled. {I went from athlete to 100% disabled for the

> > first four years...gradually to now where I'm investigating the

> > limits of what's possible/realistic). Maybe return to school seems

> > like a healthy thing for this old broad. Either that or join a

> > circus. Too old for a tightrope maybe they'd give me a job washing

> > the elephants? ;-)

> >

> > That help some?

> >

> > Picked up my own copy of SWOE a few days ago and can't seem to put

> > it down. That book is just right on the money and damn I wished I'd

> > found my way to this group a long time ago. Anyway tried ta give ya

> > a rational answer to a very irrational dx -- heh heh. SWOE talks

> > about medical problems related to " hypervigilant " immmune

> > systems... " hypervigilant " for all the reasons we might guess.

> >

> > I think that's what happened to me. I believe there's a lot of

> > research interest in the the Mind-Body connection as it pertains to

> > CFS, bcs cfs is an expensive chronic illness...frequently takes ppl

> > out in their prime and they remain disabled for life. No known

> > cause....no cure...no available RX's accept to treat symptoms.

> > Prognosis unknown. It's a burden to everyone. Still processing what

> > I'm reading in SWOE ::: this ain't easy...

> >

> > Hope some of above post made sense.

> >

> > Ciao 4 Now, Bella,

> >

> > ~Daphne

> >

>

>

> Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

> " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

> http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I (Edith) wrote:

>

> >>Also, if you find SWOE interesting, you've gotta

> read " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (UBM) by

> Ann Lawson.<<

And, rhythm_methd wrote:

>

> Thanks - got it early 2003, read it, and need to revisit it.

> Lawson's book perfectly describes my family's dysfunction. yIkEs

> (I was split into the 'all bad' kid and played out the role so

> perfectly, lol)

Hmmmm, and may I ask, which part of UBM decribed your family's

dysfunction perfectly? By sharing, maybe I and others here can

relate to it.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

>>> Hmmmm, and may I ask, which part of UBM decribed your family's

dysfunction perfectly? By sharing, maybe I and others here can

relate to it.

> - Edith

Hello Edith and All -- I'm happy to relate if all a ya'll can

appreciate horror, which I'm sure you do...;-) One thing -- I need

to write down this msg # and fully reply when I'm able. I'm away and

don't have the book with me -- so I'll have to revisit this thread

and look forward to sharing more later.

Some things I remember from the book: I had a Nada in every respect -

- she just " wasn't there " . In my house, there were no meals prepared

by nada. (fada cooked on Sundays -- always a Greek delicious

specialty.) Sometimes nada would cook those fish stick things in the

oven, but mostly me and my brothers had meals at the neighbor's

houses. Sometimes we'd cook for ourselves -- at the ages of 7 + 8.

As litle kids we didn't have birthday parties; report cards weren't

expected or looked at, homework wasn't asked about, I never took the

SATs bcs nada didn't know what they were.<!> Like one poster said a

few days ago, the world was shut out and we were shut in. Nada never

had a friend of her own over to the house. She critisized every

friend I attempted to bring home, and publicly denigrated me. The

kids at school teased me about the appearence of the inside of the

house (it looked like a crazy person lived there) and eventually it

became known as the IHOD -- the International House of Dysfunction.

I think fada's role was that of protector (of us kids), bcs nada

unleashed a LOT on us young KOs after he died of a heart attack.

The part in UBM about splitting + distortion campaigns struck a

chord. When I first started reading it, I called my younger brother

and asked him what he remembered. He told me he could never

understand why " she was on a smear campaign against you <meaning me>

from day one. " My older brother was designated the " all good "

child. I think I only understand just a couple of his issues, but he

sure was enmeshed with Mommy Dearest. He's now 50 years old. He's

never had a relationship with anyone (man or woman) besides nada,

and he lived with her until she died -- he still lives in her house.

I wouldn't be surprised if her clothes were still in the closet, and

if I didn't see the body go into the grave it wouldn't surprise me

one bit to find out it was propped up at the table! <eewwww>

And until I read UBM I never really understood why I was

disinherited for no apparent reason (evidently BP mothers do this.)

After all, she was content to have me commuting to her house holding

the puke bucket and washing her underware for a year while she

underwent chemo...and she seemed content to " wait for me " to be at

her side b4 she would die -- then the next day I find out from big

brother that me & younger brother were disinherited. Not that she

had 10 cents left to her name - it seemed more symbolic. Like she

was trying to hoover us from beyond heh heh it didn't work (success

story later)

UBM explains how different aspects of the mother's personalities

splinter off into (projected onto?) the siblings, and the kids often

wind up at each other's throats -- my brothers and I are attempting

something like a real dialog for the first time in our lives.

Ok -- I have to get to yoga class now. Thanks for encouraging me to

share. If you're Ok with more, I'd like to share some bizzar-o

boundary violation stories. (I found out from UBM that BP mothers

have no boundary concepts...) She violated me, then she killed my

horses (like you, I had many animals). The reason she destroyed my

animals was an over reaction to a perceived misbehavior --

she " caught " me in the barn with my high school boyfriend. When I

found out what happened to my horses, I nearly successfully killed

her. I was 16 years old. To avoid being arrested, I hit the road for

four years; breaking yearling racehorses for Hobeau Farms in Ocala,

Fl., living on Indian Reservations, working in a shipyard in Biloxi,

Mississippi, working as a cocktail waitress in New Orleans till I

was busted and sent " home " for being underage.

The strangest part was all this psycho stuff was exceedingly well

concealed by one of those Long Island North Shore communities where

child abuse is so well covered. As UBM explains, they can present

so well...so one believed me. A few teachers tried to intervene. One

was fired as an example to the rest.

thanks for listening,

~daphne

[Guest guest]

Kya -- I just saw this! All I can say for now is WoW. Thanks for

understanding. Maybe we can talk sometime. I'm glad you're in

complete remission. I remember the rumors about cfs sometimes going

into remission during pregnancy. I remember (in the mid to late

90's) women would get pregnant in a desperate attempt for relief.

More frequently they'd have the baby & the symptoms returned. I'm

glad that didn't happen to you -- and it's good for me to hear

success stories like yours! Thanks... :) ~daphne

> > In overview: after experiencing a major life stressor at 32 yrs

old

> > (KO brother in car accident/TBI and major FOO GOO inclding BP

nada)

> > six months later I came down with something that looked like

Mono,

> > but didn't resolve...turned into a post viral syndrome {similar

to

> > Post Polio Syndrome} which then became Myalgic Encephalomielitis

or

> > Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

[Guest guest]

> > Wow Daphne,

Reading your post really struck a cord with me. The part in UBM that

really freaked me out so bad I had to put the book down for awhile

was where it talked about the 'turn' and the 'campaign of

denigration' which I believe are both in the witch chapter. I cried

for days when I read those parts. Your statements about her killing

your horses chills me to the bone. My nada was never that obvious,

but in a way, she did the same to me. I was always rescuing stray

animals and she would never let me keep them, so I had to take them

to the pound where I'm sure most if not all were destroyed. One day

my younger brother (my older and younger brothers were the 'all-good

children - I was the all-bad) brought home a stray kitten and she let

him keep it. Then he rubbed it in my face for days if not weeks that

he got to keep his. I was devastated! Why did the poor creatures I

was trying to save have to die? It wasn't fair. I realize now I was

doing for those animals what I could not do for myself. Trying to

save them from certain death. Weird, huh?

Tammy

> Ok -- I have to get to yoga class now. Thanks for encouraging me to

> share. If you're Ok with more, I'd like to share some bizzar-o

> boundary violation stories. (I found out from UBM that BP mothers

> have no boundary concepts...) She violated me, then she killed my

> horses (like you, I had many animals). The reason she destroyed my

> animals was an over reaction to a perceived misbehavior --

> she " caught " me in the barn with my high school boyfriend. When I

> found out what happened to my horses, I nearly successfully killed

> her. I was 16 years old. To avoid being arrested, I hit the road

for

> four years; breaking yearling racehorses for Hobeau Farms in Ocala,

> Fl., living on Indian Reservations, working in a shipyard in

Biloxi,

> Mississippi, working as a cocktail waitress in New Orleans till I

> was busted and sent " home " for being underage.

>

> The strangest part was all this psycho stuff was exceedingly well

> concealed by one of those Long Island North Shore communities where

> child abuse is so well covered. As UBM explains, they can present

> so well...so one believed me. A few teachers tried to intervene.

One

> was fired as an example to the rest.

>

> thanks for listening,

> ~daphne