Re: Msg to Hope re: therapist

[Guest guest]

Hope wrote to Daphne:

> My therapist doesn't stink. What stinks is my relationship

> with my therapist. I don't know how to create and maintain

> a true intimate relationship with anybody (duh!!!! that's

> because I'm a ko and it's the reason I went to therapy!!).

> Edith has never been to therapy so with all due respect,

> she's not my advisor on how to get the most out of it.

It could be that your therapist is a BPD.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

> Hope wrote to Daphne:

>

> > My therapist doesn't stink. What stinks is my relationship

> > with my therapist. I don't know how to create and maintain

> > a true intimate relationship with anybody (duh!!!! that's

> > because I'm a ko and it's the reason I went to therapy!!).

> > Edith has never been to therapy so with all due respect,

> > she's not my advisor on how to get the most out of it.

>

>

> It could be that your therapist is a BPD.

>

> - Edith

Touche! You may have hit the nail on the head, Edith!

Tammy

[Guest guest]

legoarwen2003 wrote:

>

>

>>Hope wrote to Daphne:

>>

>>

>>>My therapist doesn't stink. What stinks is my relationship

>>>with my therapist. I don't know how to create and maintain

>>>a true intimate relationship with anybody (duh!!!! that's

>>>because I'm a ko and it's the reason I went to therapy!!).

>>>Edith has never been to therapy so with all due respect,

>>>she's not my advisor on how to get the most out of it.

>>

>>

>>It could be that your therapist is a BPD.

>>

>>- Edith

>

>

> Touche! You may have hit the nail on the head, Edith!

>

> Tammy

>

There's lots of BPs out there in the helping professions - eg,

medicine, therapy, teaching, etc. BPs gravitate to the helping

professions because it makes them feel good about their tiny

and/or fragmented 'self'. It ALWAYS just about them.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

Hope wrote:

> It also could be that you're a little green man from mars.

> <wink>

>

Actually one of my other names I've been known by on KO lists is

'lil Green Genie. That one was bestowed on me many years ago by

those on our advanced list which has been together for over 5

years, compared to 3 years for this list which started up in

October of 2000.

I've been on Oasis lists for 8 years and I've seen lots of

changes take place in lots of KO's lives in the interim. The

changes that need to take place are slow in coming. They're life

changing and they can only happen in tiny increments by putting

one foot in front of the other and taking one tiny step at a time.

KOs are impatient and try to intellectualize to make the changes

happen but it can't and doesn't happen that way. There are two

sides to the coin that needs to change - cognitive

(thinking/understanding) and emotional (feeling).

We KOs had lousy role models for parents. We have problems with

boundaries, we've seen the world through our BP parent's

cognitively distorted eyeglasses, and our emotional growth was

stunted at between 9 months and 2 years of age. By the time KOs

reach this list, as adults, they're generally numbed out

emotionally.

Our nada/fada would NOT allow us to grow past them emotionally

cuz if we did then they would lose CONTROL over us. BPs live in

a tipsy-turvy, screwed up, cognitive/emotional world and the

only way they could maintain control of their world was to

overcontrol those around them.

So, from our earliest pre-verbal days, our nadas tried to force

us into a box and to wear a mask. If/when they succeeded then

our emotional growth was stunted at our nada's/fada's level of

emotional growth and we ended up with nada/fada living rent-free

in our head, guiding our every thought and action.

What the KO has to do is challenge each cognitive thought and

action. Do stuff differently. Allow yourself to make mistakes.

Laugh at yourself when you do. Stop beating yourself up. Forget

about being perfect. Recognize when you're using your

nada's/fada's defense mechanisms (eg, splitting, projection,

rationalization, denial, or whatever).

A KO can't stand back and look at their self objectively. KOs

have been brain-washed and have only seen their self through

their nada's/fada's eyes. But it wasn't supposed to be that way.

We were supposed to individuate into our own unique SELF. If

we'd succeeded in doing that, our nada would have to accept

failure. But nadas can't accept failure. They split their self

into either ALL GOOD or ALL BAD. So, the harder we tried to

individuate and become our own person, the harder our nada tried

to keep us from succeeding in doing that.

Personally, it took me 2 years to find and then kick my nada's

arse out of my head, and another 3 years to *start* getting my

own 'voice'. I'm sure a BPD-knowledgable therapist could/would

have helped immensely and shorted the time I've spent on my

healing journey but there were none available that I could find

then. I'm not even sure I could find one today but I haven't

been looking lately and if I did find one I'm sure I could teach

them a thing or two about KOs.

It really is lke Lawson said on p 303 in her book, UBM:

" Adult children of borderline mothers must return to the past

for the sake of their future. The last half of their lives can

become the best half if they disinter the real self and

rediscover their lost exhuberance, their own free will, and

their uninhibited creative self. "

And, on p 304:

" Children need to be held, to be mirrored, to be soothed, and to

be given some control through their childhood ... Unbearable

pain that is expressed, heard, and believed becomes bearable. "

This list is one place that KOs can be heard and be believed.

The bottom line: KOs have to do an almost impossible task -- ie,

to raise themselves up by their own bootstraps. If one is

fortunate enough to find a therapist who honestly understands

and can help, that is truly a blessing but therapists like that

are not easy to find. <sigh>

Perhaps Hope will be one of those therapists some day after she

gets her own life back on the path it was supposed to travel and

then gets her arse back in school. There are therapists out

there who've graduated from an Oasis list in the past. And there

are therapists lurking on this list right now who are learning

from us in order to better help the KOs they have as clients in

their private practices.

We KOs have to learn to be good to our Self, so I ask: What have

you done that's nice and special just for you today?

Just some thoughts...

- Edith

[Guest guest]

>

> > It also could be that you're a little green man from mars.

> > <wink>

> >

>

> Actually one of my other names I've been known by on KO lists is

> 'lil Green Genie. That one was bestowed on me many years ago by

> those on our advanced list which has been together for over 5

> years, compared to 3 years for this list which started up in

> October of 2000.

>

> I've been on Oasis lists for 8 years and I've seen lots of

> changes take place in lots of KO's lives in the interim. The

> changes that need to take place are slow in coming. They're life

> changing and they can only happen in tiny increments by putting

> one foot in front of the other and taking one tiny step at a time.

>

> KOs are impatient and try to intellectualize to make the changes

> happen but it can't and doesn't happen that way. There are two

> sides to the coin that needs to change - cognitive

> (thinking/understanding) and emotional (feeling).

>

> We KOs had lousy role models for parents. We have problems with

> boundaries, we've seen the world through our BP parent's

> cognitively distorted eyeglasses, and our emotional growth was

> stunted at between 9 months and 2 years of age. By the time KOs

> reach this list, as adults, they're generally numbed out

> emotionally.

WOW! You know us really well! If I didn't know any better, I'd say

you had some experience with this stuff! LOL!

>

> Our nada/fada would NOT allow us to grow past them emotionally

> cuz if we did then they would lose CONTROL over us. BPs live in

> a tipsy-turvy, screwed up, cognitive/emotional world and the

> only way they could maintain control of their world was to

> overcontrol those around them.

>

> So, from our earliest pre-verbal days, our nadas tried to force

> us into a box and to wear a mask. If/when they succeeded then

> our emotional growth was stunted at our nada's/fada's level of

> emotional growth and we ended up with nada/fada living rent-free

> in our head, guiding our every thought and action.

>

> What the KO has to do is challenge each cognitive thought and

> action. Do stuff differently. Allow yourself to make mistakes.

> Laugh at yourself when you do. Stop beating yourself up. Forget

> about being perfect. Recognize when you're using your

> nada's/fada's defense mechanisms (eg, splitting, projection,

> rationalization, denial, or whatever).

>

Excellent! Best advice I ever heard!

> A KO can't stand back and look at their self objectively. KOs

> have been brain-washed and have only seen their self through

> their nada's/fada's eyes. But it wasn't supposed to be that way.

> We were supposed to individuate into our own unique SELF. If

> we'd succeeded in doing that, our nada would have to accept

> failure. But nadas can't accept failure. They split their self

> into either ALL GOOD or ALL BAD. So, the harder we tried to

> individuate and become our own person, the harder our nada tried

> to keep us from succeeding in doing that.

>

> Personally, it took me 2 years to find and then kick my nada's

> arse out of my head, and another 3 years to *start* getting my

> own 'voice'. I'm sure a BPD-knowledgable therapist could/would

> have helped immensely and shorted the time I've spent on my

> healing journey but there were none available that I could find

> then. I'm not even sure I could find one today but I haven't

> been looking lately and if I did find one I'm sure I could teach

> them a thing or two about KOs.

Arse? It's been a few years since I heard that word! LOL! I think

you are right about teaching the therapist a thing or two. I am VERY

fortunate that I have a therapist that believes in and treats KOs.

>

> It really is lke Lawson said on p 303 in her book, UBM:

>

> " Adult children of borderline mothers must return to the past

> for the sake of their future. The last half of their lives can

> become the best half if they disinter the real self and

> rediscover their lost exhuberance, their own free will, and

> their uninhibited creative self. "

>

> And, on p 304:

>

> " Children need to be held, to be mirrored, to be soothed, and to

> be given some control through their childhood ... Unbearable

> pain that is expressed, heard, and believed becomes bearable. "

>

> This list is one place that KOs can be heard and be believed.

Yeah, this list is like getting the hugs and mirroring we never got

as children, which makes all the difference in the world!

>

> The bottom line: KOs have to do an almost impossible task -- ie,

> to raise themselves up by their own bootstraps. If one is

> fortunate enough to find a therapist who honestly understands

> and can help, that is truly a blessing but therapists like that

> are not easy to find. <sigh>

We KOs are seeking the lamppost under which you wait for us. Then we

will know we have 'raised ourselves up by our own bootstraps'. Yes,

it is difficult, but certainly not impossible. Most days it is like

two steps forward and once step back, but progress is progress. Even

our darkest days serve a purpose in our healing.

>

> Perhaps Hope will be one of those therapists some day after she

> gets her own life back on the path it was supposed to travel and

> then gets her arse back in school. There are therapists out

> there who've graduated from an Oasis list in the past. And there

> are therapists lurking on this list right now who are learning

> from us in order to better help the KOs they have as clients in

> their private practices.

There's that 'arse' word again! What a hoot! I wish everyone on

this list lived in western Florida so they could see my therapist.

This lady really knows her shit.

>

> We KOs have to learn to be good to our Self, so I ask: What have

> you done that's nice and special just for you today?

Absolutely! Some of us have no one to be kind to us but ourselves

and I think taking care of ourselves is foremost in our recovery and

is our number one priority. Easier said than done, I know, but not

impossible.

Tammy

>

> Just some thoughts...

>

> - Edith