help - shrink-induced distress

[Guest guest]

I had a pretty distressing session with my psychiatrist on Monday that's

left me very confused and feeling hurt. As he would ask though, is the

hurt and confusion from the past or the present?

The message I walked out of the room with was that there is nothing in

my past or present to justify how I feel. Maybe I got that idea due to

transference. I don't know. That's the point. I just don't know

anything. Ever. When it comes to me I just don't know what the bloody

hell is going on any more, and I don't know if I ever did. Worse still,

should I feel any certainty? Do I have a problem dealing with a state of

not knowing? If I do is that really me or is it the Nada in my head? Do

I have a Nada or am I making it all up? Is my mother actually fine and

normal and loving and I am the one who is the bitch causing all the

problems?

What the bloody hell is going on????

This is the second time this has happened with a shrink and I want to

run away just like I did last time.

Is there any meaning to this feeling? Am on the brink of a break through

or of annihilation?

He says there's nothing there. There is no basis for how I feel.

She provided for me. She got Margaret for me.

So she managed me well. BUT SHE NEVER FUCKING KNEW ME. Whatever she did

see she would attack.

What about me - the little girl who got hurt? She's just imagined so

she doesn't exist either.

History is imagined so that doesn't exist. If history doesn't exist then

neither does now or the future.

If there's no evidence of a problem in the way I grew up then why would

I get depressed? Why did all the out-of-character behaviour happen? Or

was it not out of character? Have I been kidding myself all along?

He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

" From books and me because I love. " That's what I wanted to say, but

instead I said " Margret " (the housekeeper who looked after me) because

that seemed to be the sort of answer that he was looking for.

I know better than that so why do I give answers like that when I am in

that headspace? I am being her when I do that?

But there's nothing to suggest that she is a bad mother who doesn't care

about me so I should just get over it and not fight anymore. Am I just

another spoilt soulless rich kid making hell for people because I feel

too materially secure?

He said that annexation of myself is not real - all just imagined.

Ideas are in the imagination so they don't exist.

Meaning must be similarly non-existant.

" I " am imagined so " I " mustn't exist either.

Well if I'm just imagined and I don't really exist then what's the point

of being alive?

We are all just meat puppets?

" Annette " is simply a symbol that refers to an organism that is separate

from other similar organisms.

Is it terribly narcissistic of me to get pissed off with people who will

reduce a human beings to that?

It is all a dream. If I don't exist then neither do other people and

this little meat puppet can do whatever she likes and none of it will

matter. Then I can just think my way out of prison? Now THAT's crazy!

Annette

[Guest guest]

Annette, I am really, really concerned for the mental health and

spiritual well-being of your shrink.

> He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

> " From books and me because I love. " That's what I wanted to say..

If you don't feel your shrink can hear you say that, then you need a

different shrink. I would try saying it, though, to see what

happens. Steel yourself in advance, the way you would before

talking to nada.

> History is imagined so that doesn't exist.

> If history doesn't exist then neither does now or the future.

> Ideas are in the imagination so they don't exist.

> Meaning must be similarly non-existant.

> " I " am imagined so " I " mustn't exist either.

Annete, this is the most poisonous philosophy I know of. It was

stuffed down my throat by my nada, by my ex-wife, and by several

shrinks. My ex-wife's shrink encouraged her in this belief, so she

felt no remorse at all in using the legal system to destroy me, to

exorcize her ghosts. Get as far away from this shit as you can!!!!!

You exist. Your memories exist. Meaning exists.

> Is it terribly narcissistic of me to get pissed off with people

> who will reduce a human beings to that?

It is a proof of your humanity and your worth.

- Dan

[Guest guest]

I had the same thing happen with a psychiatrist--I actually got an anxiety

attack from talking to him--he did give some great advice that helped but I

dropped him after the 2nd session. I found that my psychiatrist wasn't as good

at talk therapy as an MFT or someone who doesn't prescribe drugs. Spiritual

counsel proved incredibly helpful with talk therapy and one of the best

therapies was coming to a non BPD chat site and finding that I wasn't the lone

ranger. The confusion sounds pretty normal, you'll get through that. If you

don't like the psychiatrist, it's best to find someone you gel with and feel

good about. I didn't get the feeling that the good doc was trying to deny your

experience, it seemed like an inquiry of is this pain coming from your past or

present--but when one is confused and traumatized, I don't think you can make

that call--i had no idea where my pain was coming from--i was unaware of

everything. It seemed like the doc wanted you to diagnose yourself--imho, that

question was one he should have answered after a thoughtful and understanding

line of questioning towards you. It's work, but you'll gain an understanding.

Hang on, tiki

help - shrink-induced distress

I had a pretty distressing session with my psychiatrist on Monday that's

left me very confused and feeling hurt. As he would ask though, is the

hurt and confusion from the past or the present?

The message I walked out of the room with was that there is nothing in

my past or present to justify how I feel. Maybe I got that idea due to

transference. I don't know. That's the point. I just don't know

anything. Ever. When it comes to me I just don't know what the bloody

hell is going on any more, and I don't know if I ever did. Worse still,

should I feel any certainty? Do I have a problem dealing with a state of

not knowing? If I do is that really me or is it the Nada in my head? Do

I have a Nada or am I making it all up? Is my mother actually fine and

normal and loving and I am the one who is the bitch causing all the

problems?

What the bloody hell is going on????

This is the second time this has happened with a shrink and I want to

run away just like I did last time.

Is there any meaning to this feeling? Am on the brink of a break through

or of annihilation?

He says there's nothing there. There is no basis for how I feel.

She provided for me. She got Margaret for me.

So she managed me well. BUT SHE NEVER FUCKING KNEW ME. Whatever she did

see she would attack.

What about me - the little girl who got hurt? She's just imagined so

she doesn't exist either.

History is imagined so that doesn't exist. If history doesn't exist then

neither does now or the future.

If there's no evidence of a problem in the way I grew up then why would

I get depressed? Why did all the out-of-character behaviour happen? Or

was it not out of character? Have I been kidding myself all along?

He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

" From books and me because I love. " That's what I wanted to say, but

instead I said " Margret " (the housekeeper who looked after me) because

that seemed to be the sort of answer that he was looking for.

I know better than that so why do I give answers like that when I am in

that headspace? I am being her when I do that?

But there's nothing to suggest that she is a bad mother who doesn't care

about me so I should just get over it and not fight anymore. Am I just

another spoilt soulless rich kid making hell for people because I feel

too materially secure?

He said that annexation of myself is not real - all just imagined.

Ideas are in the imagination so they don't exist.

Meaning must be similarly non-existant.

" I " am imagined so " I " mustn't exist either.

Well if I'm just imagined and I don't really exist then what's the point

of being alive?

We are all just meat puppets?

" Annette " is simply a symbol that refers to an organism that is separate

from other similar organisms.

Is it terribly narcissistic of me to get pissed off with people who will

reduce a human beings to that?

It is all a dream. If I don't exist then neither do other people and

this little meat puppet can do whatever she likes and none of it will

matter. Then I can just think my way out of prison? Now THAT's crazy!

Annette

[Guest guest]

> I had a pretty distressing session with my psychiatrist on Monday

that's

> left me very confused and feeling hurt. As he would ask though, is

the

> hurt and confusion from the past or the present?

>

> The message I walked out of the room with was that there is nothing

in

> my past or present to justify how I feel. Maybe I got that idea due

to

> transference. I don't know. That's the point. I just don't know

> anything. Ever. When it comes to me I just don't know what the

bloody

> hell is going on any more, and I don't know if I ever did. Worse

still,

> should I feel any certainty? Do I have a problem dealing with a

state of

> not knowing? If I do is that really me or is it the Nada in my

head? Do

> I have a Nada or am I making it all up? Is my mother actually fine

and

> normal and loving and I am the one who is the bitch causing all the

> problems?

>

> What the bloody hell is going on????

> This is the second time this has happened with a shrink and I want

to

> run away just like I did last time.

> Is there any meaning to this feeling? Am on the brink of a break

through

> or of annihilation?

>

> He says there's nothing there. There is no basis for how I feel.

> Your shrink is a psycho! He has no right to tell you that. He

doesn't sound like the 'brightest bunny in the forest'! Feelings are

not something you just make up out of thin air! I don't know your

situation well enough to say whether your mother is a nada or not,

but if you have read UBM and it feels like the story of your life,

then chances are, you are correct. Don't let him treat you that way!

> She provided for me. She got Margaret for me.

>

> So she managed me well. BUT SHE NEVER FUCKING KNEW ME. Whatever she

did

> see she would attack.

>

> What about me - the little girl who got hurt? She's just imagined

so

> she doesn't exist either.

>

> History is imagined so that doesn't exist. If history doesn't exist

then

> neither does now or the future.

>

> If there's no evidence of a problem in the way I grew up then why

would

> I get depressed? Why did all the out-of-character behaviour happen?

Or

> was it not out of character? Have I been kidding myself all along?

>

> He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

>

There is no question in my mind my mother is a nada, but I'm not. I

have been very loving and supportive of my children and I have never

abused them. I will admit there were times when 'old tapes' seemed

to be in control of me, but mostly I've been able to recognize it and

go back and apologize and set things right. My mother was a good

provider even though money was tight, but that doesn't make up for

the times I walked around with bruises on my back and the time she

hit me in the side of the head so hard, it broke my ear drum. It

doesn't make up for the times she 'projected' her slutty behavior

onto me and insisted that I wasn't going out to dinner or a movie or

church, that I was just using those things as an excuse to have sex.

My nada had me convinced I was a slut even when I was a VIRGIN! It

doesn't make up for all the years I thought I was bad and worthless.

It doesn't make up for all the years of feeling helpless and hopeless

and powerless to stop her. I think your shrink needs a shrink! I

think he's an idiot. Why have a nada to abuse you when you can get

your shrink to do it for her? Find a new shrink. I've had wonderful

luck with a licensed mental health couselor and a cranio-sacral

massage therapist. Different things work for different people and if

you've been through two shrinks with the same result, I think it

might be helpful to try something different.

> " From books and me because I love. " That's what I wanted to say,

but

> instead I said " Margret " (the housekeeper who looked after me)

because

> that seemed to be the sort of answer that he was looking for.

>

> I know better than that so why do I give answers like that when I

am in

> that headspace? I am being her when I do that?

>

> But there's nothing to suggest that she is a bad mother who doesn't

care

> about me so I should just get over it and not fight anymore. Am I

just

> another spoilt soulless rich kid making hell for people because I

feel

> too materially secure?

>

> He said that annexation of myself is not real - all just imagined.

>

> Ideas are in the imagination so they don't exist.

>

> Meaning must be similarly non-existant.

>

> " I " am imagined so " I " mustn't exist either.

>

> Well if I'm just imagined and I don't really exist then what's the

point

> of being alive?

>

> We are all just meat puppets?

>

> " Annette " is simply a symbol that refers to an organism that is

separate

> from other similar organisms.

>

> Is it terribly narcissistic of me to get pissed off with people who

will

> reduce a human beings to that?

>

> It is all a dream. If I don't exist then neither do other people

and

> this little meat puppet can do whatever she likes and none of it

will

> matter. Then I can just think my way out of prison? Now THAT's

crazy!

>

> Annette

>

> Please keep posting and let us know if you are going to change

therapists/therapies. I think that man is a monster!

Love and Blessings,

Tammy

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh, my goodness - I understand!

I thought I was the only one who thought such thoughts! Growing up

with a BP makes you question *everything*, even the basic validity of

your own existence! But a psych shouldn't be the one to do that.

IMO, your psych is opperating on a *very false* premise, and is only

going to damage you more. There are some weird ones out there.

It's so tricky, because you know something's wrong, but you also know

that it's not what your nada and psych say is wrong, and yet how can

you know, because maybe they're right, but if they're right, then you

die.... You feel your soul begin to wither and darken, the mind

spins and then fades, and then it's just about going through the

motions because " I " can't exist if what " they " are saying is true.

Or, at least that is what happens to me.

Love is real, and unlike what my nada told me, being " real " (ie:

aware of what " I " means, having your real identity outside of your

relationship with others) isn't selfish and sinful or imagined. It

took me a long time, but in order to feel alive and to really love, I

had to accept my " I " , my real inner self. I can't love without

an " I " , and I was unwilling to live without deeply and truly loving -

because then I'd end up acting just like my mom (acting loving on the

outside, but being empty on the inside).

You *are*. You do have meaning. Your BP did a very good job on you

(IMO). They are very good, I think, at doing things " right " on the

outside, but somehow tearing us up on the inside in a secret way, and

then saying - " No, I never did that, you're imagining it " , and then

it's an endless cycle as long as you continue to listen to their

argument.

I like Dan's response, and I couldn't agree with him more. Get

yourself a new psych, and fast.

Of course, if I'm way off-line, just delete this!

Cathi

)

> I had a pretty distressing session with my psychiatrist on Monday

that's

> left me very confused and feeling hurt. As he would ask though, is

the

> hurt and confusion from the past or the present?

>

> The message I walked out of the room with was that there is nothing

in

> my past or present to justify how I feel. Maybe I got that idea due

to

> transference. I don't know. That's the point. I just don't know

> anything. Ever. When it comes to me I just don't know what the

bloody

> hell is going on any more, and I don't know if I ever did. Worse

still,

> should I feel any certainty? Do I have a problem dealing with a

state of

> not knowing? If I do is that really me or is it the Nada in my

head? Do

> I have a Nada or am I making it all up? Is my mother actually fine

and

> normal and loving and I am the one who is the bitch causing all the

> problems?

>

> What the bloody hell is going on????

> This is the second time this has happened with a shrink and I want

to

> run away just like I did last time.

> Is there any meaning to this feeling? Am on the brink of a break

through

> or of annihilation?

>

> He says there's nothing there. There is no basis for how I feel.

>

> She provided for me. She got Margaret for me.

>

> So she managed me well. BUT SHE NEVER FUCKING KNEW ME. Whatever she

did

> see she would attack.

>

> What about me - the little girl who got hurt? She's just imagined

so

> she doesn't exist either.

>

> History is imagined so that doesn't exist. If history doesn't exist

then

> neither does now or the future.

>

> If there's no evidence of a problem in the way I grew up then why

would

> I get depressed? Why did all the out-of-character behaviour happen?

Or

> was it not out of character? Have I been kidding myself all along?

>

> He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

>

> " From books and me because I love. " That's what I wanted to say,

but

> instead I said " Margret " (the housekeeper who looked after me)

because

> that seemed to be the sort of answer that he was looking for.

>

> I know better than that so why do I give answers like that when I

am in

> that headspace? I am being her when I do that?

>

> But there's nothing to suggest that she is a bad mother who doesn't

care

> about me so I should just get over it and not fight anymore. Am I

just

> another spoilt soulless rich kid making hell for people because I

feel

> too materially secure?

>

> He said that annexation of myself is not real - all just imagined.

>

> Ideas are in the imagination so they don't exist.

>

> Meaning must be similarly non-existant.

>

> " I " am imagined so " I " mustn't exist either.

>

> Well if I'm just imagined and I don't really exist then what's the

point

> of being alive?

>

> We are all just meat puppets?

>

> " Annette " is simply a symbol that refers to an organism that is

separate

> from other similar organisms.

>

> Is it terribly narcissistic of me to get pissed off with people who

will

> reduce a human beings to that?

>

> It is all a dream. If I don't exist then neither do other people

and

> this little meat puppet can do whatever she likes and none of it

will

> matter. Then I can just think my way out of prison? Now THAT's

crazy!

>

> Annette

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

First off I want to say hello to everyone because I am brand new to

this group. I had planned on just trying to read through a number

of the posts to get a feel for things…however this post raised some

very interesting questions in my mind and I thought I'd share. I do

get the feeling from what I've read so far in this forum it's

purpose is to lend support and help to others just like ourselves.

Therefore I would be remiss in not commenting.

My questions:

In reading Annette's post I was confused about what her shrink

actually said or if she wrote what she thought her shrink was saying

or thinking. I think this makes a big difference when one is asking

for comments and advice. My assumption (we all know where that gets

us ) is because she didn't use quotes that some of her comments

weren't actually what her shrink said but what her perception was.

Annette does use quotes later in her post about what she actually

said herself. My first question would be what comments were actual

quotes from your shrink?

>> " Is the hurt and confusion from the past or the present? "

That appears to be a direct comment and I'm not sure why that would

offend you. Speaking for myself, I entered therapy mostly because

of the hurt and feelings I was feeling at the time but it was based

on my past and how I learned to deal with things. I can actually

hear my therapist asking me this question himself.

>>He's asked me, if I am a good mother then where did that come from?

IMHO, therapists ask these kinds of questions to see where you are

in feeling about yourself. If you are a good mother because you

vowed to do things different then how your mother did them then you

should have said just that. Take pride in yourself. Be proud that

under the circumstances you know what constitutes good mothering and

what does not. We might have not have been taught how to be a good

mother but we were taught what NOT to do and that we needed to learn

on our own by whatever means possible.

>> " because that seemed to be the sort of answer that he was looking

for " .

I think a big mistake that many of us make in therapy is trying to

give answers based on what we think our therapist is looking for.

Wrong thinking. We will never reach our destination with this kind

of behavior. That is how we learned to deal with people with BPD.

Your thoughts and feelings are the most important thing during that

therapy session. Stop being false to yourself.

>> " I know better than that so why do I give answers like that when I

am in that headspace? I am being her when I do that? "

I think you already know the answer to that one, is that why you

asked it? Are you looking for validation?

How long have you been seeing your therapist? A VERY important

question and should be a consideration when giving feedback. I

really believe to overcome our horrid childhoods a great deal of

work must be done and therapy is a great avenue in doing this. I

don't believe telling someone their psychiatrist is a psycho is

helpful. Please do not think I'm attacking those who suggested

that, but hear me out. Counseling, for some of us, is our only hope

of overcoming our past. The mental health field already gets a bad

rap from those same people that abused us (just imagine if all BPD

got help through counseling). There are bad therapists but there

are a great deal of wonderful ones also. What if someone new here

who is thinking about getting therapy reads posts that talk

about `psychotherapists' and then they don't seek that avenue of

help. I'd feel bad if I turned someone away under those

circumstances.

Annette, you need to go back to your psychiatrist and ask actually

what did they mean. Read them your post. Would they be shocked

with what is there? I've found that 99% of the time what I thought

my therapist was saying was indeed wrong. It was my own `stinking

thinking' that I was putting on to him. Which is understandable

with my past BUT I must stop this thinking to get better. My

thoughts and feelings are if I were to respond to you like others

have that I'd be enabling you to stay where you are…and I might not

know you but I know that isn't what you really want. To stay stuck

in the place you are at now.

If you come right out and ask your psychiatrist, which is healthy,

and they say, " Yes, you are right on the mark. " Then I'd give

another response to your post, but I'm not convinced that is what

you are truly saying. Am I reading between the lines?

Trust is the biggest issue in therapy. It will NOT happen

overnight. For most of us it took decades to get us where we are

and it will not get us out in one or two sessions. I think

depending on how much you're been hurt depends on how long it takes

you to trust to the point you need too. Like years not sessions.

Now I understand my email address will be visible, but I am being

true to myself and my comments are not to hurt others but to help

others like myself heal.

Janet

[Guest guest]

Janet wrote:

> .... I do

> get the feeling from what I've read so far in this forum it's

> purpose is to lend support and help to others just like ourselves.

> Therefore I would be remiss in not commenting.

> In reading Annette's post ... My assumption ... is ...

> ... I'm not sure why that would offend you.

> I think ...

> I think ...

> Please do not think I'm attacking ...

> ... you need to ...

> ... I've found that 99% of the time ... I ... was indeed wrong.

> ... Am I reading between the lines?

> ... I understand my email address will be visible, but I am being

> true to myself and my comments are not to hurt others but to help

> others like myself heal.

Edith here:

Hi Janet, Oh, OK. Good to know.

Actually, our forum is here for KOs to offer validation and support.

And, like its stated in the Guidelines, we don't use the word " you " .

Now its our turn and our questions are:

Do/did you have a parent(s) with BPD?

Was s/he low- or high-functioning?

Co-morbid traits?

What was your childhood like?

At what age did you first see a therapist? For how long?

Did/does your therapist have a successful track record working with KOs?

How did you find such a therapist?

Have you read our list bibles: SWOE, UBM, or Surviving a Borderline

Parent by Ross and Friedman?

Usually KOs join in on our list after lurking for awhile and observing

the threads. And then they introduce their self.

Welcome aboard.

- Edith

Manager / WelcomeToOz Lists

[Guest guest]

>> My questions:

> In reading Annette's post I was confused about what her shrink

> actually said or if she wrote what she thought her shrink was

saying

> or thinking. I think this makes a big difference when one is

asking

> for comments and advice. My assumption (we all know where that

gets

> us ) is because she didn't use quotes that some of her comments

> weren't actually what her shrink said but what her perception was.

> Annette does use quotes later in her post about what she actually

> said herself. My first question would be what comments were actual

> quotes from your shrink?

MY question to you is, does it really make that much difference if

Annette uses quotes? I don't think so. I try not to 'read between

the lines' when reading posts from my fellow KOs. I take what they

say at face value. One of the reasons we are so comfortable with

this forum is that we can say whatever we want and not feel

threatened or judged.

>

> > >> " I know better than that so why do I give answers like that

when I

> am in that headspace? I am being her when I do that? "

>

> I think you already know the answer to that one, is that why you

> asked it? Are you looking for validation?

Validation is one of the things we do for each other. KOs frequently

question whether our reactions are true to our feelings or 'learned'

as a result of childhood abuse. There's a big difference and I think

only a fellow KO can truly help answer that question. My therapist

is a great sounding board and has a great deal of value in my

recovery, but it helps just as much to hear it from fellow KOs even

when they tell me the same things my therapist does.

>

> How long have you been seeing your therapist? A VERY important

> question and should be a consideration when giving feedback. I

> really believe to overcome our horrid childhoods a great deal of

> work must be done and therapy is a great avenue in doing this. I

> don't believe telling someone their psychiatrist is a psycho is

> helpful. Please do not think I'm attacking those who suggested

> that, but hear me out. Counseling, for some of us, is our only

hope

> of overcoming our past. The mental health field already gets a bad

> rap from those same people that abused us (just imagine if all BPD

> got help through counseling). There are bad therapists but there

> are a great deal of wonderful ones also. What if someone new here

> who is thinking about getting therapy reads posts that talk

> about `psychotherapists' and then they don't seek that avenue of

> help. I'd feel bad if I turned someone away under those

> circumstances.

The fact is, there are some horrible therapists out there and we are

only trying to help one another determine if the person we are seeing

is genuine and not crazier than we are. We all look out for each

others welfare and part of that is giving feedback to one another

when one of us has doubts about their situation. I made the comment

about Annette's psych being psycho because SHE had doubts and I was

comparing her pshych's response and questions to mine. Also, I trust

her instincts implicitly because everyone I know who's been raised by

a BPD has overdeveloped instincts when it comes to judging people.

When I first met my therapist, I KNEW she was the right person for me

and she was the fourth one I had consulted. I think the only way

someone would choose not to seek therapy based on my comments would

be if they didn't read the entire post and take it out of context. I

don't agree that couseling is the only hope for anyone, much less

just some of us. Therapy is just one of the tools we use to heal

ourselves. It takes a lot of work from other sources, such as

reading and group therapy either in a forum like this one or

a 'literal' group of people who meet regularly.

>

> Annette, you need to go back to your psychiatrist and ask actually

> what did they mean. Read them your post. Would they be shocked

> with what is there? I've found that 99% of the time what I thought

> my therapist was saying was indeed wrong. It was my own `stinking

> thinking' that I was putting on to him. Which is understandable

> with my past BUT I must stop this thinking to get better. My

> thoughts and feelings are if I were to respond to you like others

> have that I'd be enabling you to stay where you are…and I might not

> know you but I know that isn't what you really want. To stay stuck

> in the place you are at now.

Supporting and validating are not necessarily the same thing as

enabling. When you enable someone, you give them the tools to

continue destructive behavior. By supporting and validating

Annette's doubts, we give her a different perspective to analyze her

situation. She was obviously hurting and confused and questioning

her existence. By validating her feelings, we reassured her (I hope)

that she has value as a human being. We KOs frequently need that

kind of validation. It's very difficult some days to feel like you

have the right to exist when your own mother tries to kill you. Some

days are worse than others, and my impression of Annettes post was

that she was having one of her 'down' days. I didn't see it as a

permanent state of mind so much as a 'backslide' which is common and

normal for KOs. People who have a permanent toxic state of mind

don't post on sites like this one because they don't WANT to heal.

>>

> Trust is the biggest issue in therapy. It will NOT happen

> overnight. For most of us it took decades to get us where we are

> and it will not get us out in one or two sessions. I think

> depending on how much you're been hurt depends on how long it takes

> you to trust to the point you need too. Like years not sessions.

>

I think we all understand that it takes a long time to heal, and we

all have our good days and bad days. I think intuition goes a long

way in telling us who to trust and who not to trust. MY impression

of Annettes post was that she was feeling like she made a mistake in

trusting this person and she was asking for validation from the rest

of us. That's what we do here.

> Now I understand my email address will be visible, but I am being

> true to myself and my comments are not to hurt others but to help

> others like myself heal.

>

> Janet

I believe that your intentions are honorable. Some of your comments

were hurtful, though. I think we've all been hurt enough and that

some comments have no place in this forum. However, your honesty is

refreshing. Please keep in mind that we are supporting each other

and that while that doesn't mean we have to agree with each other all

the time, it does mean that we need to be careful with one another.

Agreed? Please continue posting on this site. You obviously have

some viewpoints that are food for thought and that is what we all

need.

Tammy