Nada strikes again

January 3, 2004

the first thing that occurred to me reading your youngest brother's

'nada report' is, Why did he tell you the things she said? Is HE operating as

an extension of her tongue? IMHO your nada is playing you and your brothers

against your father, and against one another. Are your parents not living

together, that would explain her motive/and there IS one in there somewhere...

Just an idea.

Maybe the most 'logical' thing I've ever heard from a friend, when I was

suffering horribly first KNOWING that my mother 'hates' me, is that hate and

love

come from the same place inside us/emotion...the opposite of love is not hate,

but indifference. Your nada is mightily bothered by your absence, otherwise

she would be content to leave you alone. I know it doesn't help the hurt or

the anger, but give it some thought.

Carol

January 3, 2004

Hi all,

Two of my brothers are visiting (not my choice; my dad lives nearby

and he invited them, so naturally I get to " visit " , too). Well, they

don't like dad all that much (then why do they visit? I have no idea)

but I'm trying my best to stay out of that, although I did defend him

once or twice (I guess I can't help it). But we got into a

conversation about nada and I found out from my younger brother that

she actually hates me, I mean, really says terrible things about me.

And I'm hurt by that. It's so stupid because I have no contact with

her and that's the way I want it, I don't like her and I think she's

a mean, nasty, bitter person and I want nothing to do with that. So

why does it hurt? And when do I get over it? And why is it taking me

so long to stop reacting to her?

I'm not really surprised, since I've cut off contact with her, but

still, to hear it spoken.. I'm hurt and angry and I want that to go

away. My mother-in-law recently told me that no matter what her

children did, she would never stop loving them, and she actually

MEANT it and I can see it in everything she does for her kids. Why

can't I have that?? What horrible sin did I commit in some past life

that would make me deserve a mother so full of hatred?

My life is full of happiness, in fact today I was just thinking how

much I like the way things are now in my life, and nada must have

sensed that, and as always, whenever she sees happiness in my life

she sets out to destroy it.

Okay so that last bit wasn't very logical but that's certainly the

way it feels.

January 4, 2004

In thinking about this, you're right, why did he bring it up? I think

my FOO are angry at me, maybe jealous, too. My parents divorced last

year, nada used to say terrible things about dad before the divorce

and I can only imagine what she says now. Since I have a relationship

with him (and not with her), I'm sure that's at least partly where

the comments are coming from. I'm becoming increasingly aware that my

brothers are all after my dad's money, and I can't help but wonder if

they think he's giving me handouts (which simply isn't true, but it's

what they would expect from him if they had any relationship with him

at all, and it's probably what nada is telling them). I refuse to let

this bother me, as I know my own motives are pure.

Plus the younger ones are living with nada, and I don't think either

of them are aware of how much influence she has over them. If she

hates me, then they've got negative feelings towards me, too, whether

or not they admit to them. So yep, I think telling me about that was

meant to hurt me, which doesn't make me feel any better but it *does*

make me more aware that they are still under nada's influence.

This is why I hate the holidays. I feel as though refusing to see the

FOO when they're visiting dad is too hard for me to do, but I think I

need to really think about what boundaries I need to put up with them

when they are here. At least boundaries around my own emotions.

Tomorrow they leave, and I can resume my own (happy) life.

Thanks, Carol, for pointing that out.

> the first thing that occurred to me reading your youngest

brother's

> 'nada report' is, Why did he tell you the things she said? Is HE

operating as

> an extension of her tongue? IMHO your nada is playing you and your

brothers

> against your father, and against one another. Are your parents not

living

> together, that would explain her motive/and there IS one in there

somewhere...

> Just an idea.

>

> Maybe the most 'logical' thing I've ever heard from a friend, when

I was

> suffering horribly first KNOWING that my mother 'hates' me, is that

hate and love

> come from the same place inside us/emotion...the opposite of love

is not hate,

> but indifference. Your nada is mightily bothered by your absence,

otherwise

> she would be content to leave you alone. I know it doesn't help

the hurt or

> the anger, but give it some thought.

>

> Carol

>

January 4, 2004

,

I have a similar situation with my mom, but I have to say that it

didn't really surprise me. If we look at the way people with BPD

think, it makes complete sense... It shouldn't. Mothers should not

feel this way about their children, but the whole point is that these

people do not THINK right. Even when there SHOULD be an " exception "

to the way of thinking, such as with children, it does not exist and

in fact can be worse because these parents feel like puppetmasters I

think.

I try and look at it from the disorder view alone. Everyone is

either good or bad. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder.

Absence is like an eraser, removing everything good about someone and

leaving only the feelings of abandonment and loss and hurt.

Therefore, in absence a person is hated for causing such pain. They

certainly can't be GOOD, to stay away. And I also think that for

many BPD parents, they do in a part of their being recognize that

when they fear rejection from their children, it is NOT natural to

cast the children away like they might a partner or even another

family member (I know in some cases this isn't true). So it can be

the children who do the rejecting, which a lot of borderlines never

allow to happen (someone reject *them* first), so they would react

with intense feelings of hatred. It has absolutely NOTHING to do

with the hated subject. Everything is ALWAYS about the person with

BPD. She can hate you because she can't hate herself, or judge

herself, because that would be too much. I think there is such a low

tolerance to accept any blame without being engulfed by it that it's

easier to just project that on others, even their children. Which I

can't excuse no matter how I look at it, so what I'm saying probably

doesn't make it feel any 'better'.

January 4, 2004

>,

I know I'm being blunt, and I don't mean it in a mean way, but why do

you listen to that crap from your brother? I think your nada is

using him as one of her minions to do her dirty work. I know it

hurts that she says those things about you, but you don't need to

hear that and I think you would be better off if you told your

brother it's no longer a subject you want to discuss. I mean, think

about it, why did he tell you that stuff? Does he enjoy the fact

that it hurts you? He must if you ask me. Why do people tell other

people things that are hurtful? I can think of no acceptable reason

why he did that.

Also, you're not suffering because you did something wrong in a past

life or any other time. Having a nada is one of those things that

fall under the category of 'stuff happens'. I think it happened to

me because God knew I was a very strong person and He knew that the

experience would cause me want to reach out to those who are not as

strong as I am. It goes along with that old saying, 'God works in

mysterious ways'. I would have preferred He not bless with this

particular challenge, but since He did, I will use what I have

learned to try to ease the suffering of others. I know this sounds

self-righteous, but I can't accept that my suffering is for nothing

and I have to do something constructive with it or die. I can't live

with it otherwise. I refuse to accept that my pain happens for the

sake of pain itself and there is no way to redeem myself. You might

want to explore the reasons why YOU think this has happened to you.

I think we all have different paths. Different paths to healing and

different paths to redemption. Just my opinion, as usual, for what

it's worth.

Love and Blessings,

Tammy

Hi all,

>

> Two of my brothers are visiting (not my choice; my dad lives nearby

> and he invited them, so naturally I get to " visit " , too). Well,

they

> don't like dad all that much (then why do they visit? I have no

idea)

> but I'm trying my best to stay out of that, although I did defend

him

> once or twice (I guess I can't help it). But we got into a

> conversation about nada and I found out from my younger brother

that

> she actually hates me, I mean, really says terrible things about

me.

> And I'm hurt by that. It's so stupid because I have no contact with

> her and that's the way I want it, I don't like her and I think

she's

> a mean, nasty, bitter person and I want nothing to do with that. So

> why does it hurt? And when do I get over it? And why is it taking

me

> so long to stop reacting to her?

>

> I'm not really surprised, since I've cut off contact with her, but

> still, to hear it spoken.. I'm hurt and angry and I want that to go

> away. My mother-in-law recently told me that no matter what her

> children did, she would never stop loving them, and she actually

> MEANT it and I can see it in everything she does for her kids. Why

> can't I have that?? What horrible sin did I commit in some past

life

> that would make me deserve a mother so full of hatred?

>

> My life is full of happiness, in fact today I was just thinking how

> much I like the way things are now in my life, and nada must have

> sensed that, and as always, whenever she sees happiness in my life

> she sets out to destroy it.

>

> Okay so that last bit wasn't very logical but that's certainly the

> way it feels.

>

January 4, 2004

> Which I can't excuse no matter how I look at it, so what I'm saying

>probably doesn't make it feel any 'better'.

It doesn't make me feel any better, but these are all truths I needed

to hear again. Especially the stuff about it not really having

anything to do with me, because that's true. She feels abandoned by

my lack of contact, so she has to put her hate somewhere (besides

herself), so she throws it at me. It has nothing to do with the kind

of person I am, or anything I've done beyond just not talk to her,

which she perceives as abandonment.

Thanks for the stuff I needed to hear. Maybe someday this stuff will

actually occur to me automatically, instead of having to get it from

this list every time nada does something hurtful.

> ,

>

> I have a similar situation with my mom, but I have to say that it

> didn't really surprise me. If we look at the way people with BPD

> think, it makes complete sense... It shouldn't. Mothers should

not

> feel this way about their children, but the whole point is that

these

> people do not THINK right. Even when there SHOULD be

an " exception "

> to the way of thinking, such as with children, it does not exist

and

> in fact can be worse because these parents feel like puppetmasters

I

> think.

>

> I try and look at it from the disorder view alone. Everyone is

> either good or bad. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder.

> Absence is like an eraser, removing everything good about someone

and

> leaving only the feelings of abandonment and loss and hurt.

> Therefore, in absence a person is hated for causing such pain.

They

> certainly can't be GOOD, to stay away. And I also think that for

> many BPD parents, they do in a part of their being recognize that

> when they fear rejection from their children, it is NOT natural to

> cast the children away like they might a partner or even another

> family member (I know in some cases this isn't true). So it can be

> the children who do the rejecting, which a lot of borderlines never

> allow to happen (someone reject *them* first), so they would react

> with intense feelings of hatred. It has absolutely NOTHING to do

> with the hated subject. Everything is ALWAYS about the person with

> BPD. She can hate you because she can't hate herself, or judge

> herself, because that would be too much. I think there is such a

low

> tolerance to accept any blame without being engulfed by it that

it's

> easier to just project that on others, even their children. Which

I

> can't excuse no matter how I look at it, so what I'm saying

probably

> doesn't make it feel any 'better'.

January 4, 2004

> I know I'm being blunt, and I don't mean it in a mean way, but why

>do you listen to that crap from your brother? I mean, think

> about it, why did he tell you that stuff? Does he enjoy the fact

> that it hurts you? He must if you ask me.

Tonight I'm left with mostly just anger at myself - anger because I

let my defenses down around the FOO. Why did I listen? I don't know,

I guess because my life now is filled with people who are authentic

and honest. When I'm away from nada and the FOO for a long time I

forget what they do, I start to trust in the goodness of people and

so I'm surprised by the junk that the FOO is capable of, even though

I KNOW BETTER. It's stupid, I know, I was raised by a nada and I can

still be taken off-guard. In some ways I guess that makes me human,

but right now I think that makes me stupid.

I talked to my mother-in-law tonight, she said some wonderful things

to me, including that I was a good person and that I just needed to

focus on the people who love and care about me, and just walk away

from those who would try to tear me down. She says that there's no

place in life for hate and bitterness, only love, and that everybody

makes their own choice as far as how they choose to live and that I

have no control over what other people do with their lives. All of

this is good advice, and she's so wonderful because it's exactly the

kind of thing a real mother would say.

So I guess I'm just left wondering how long I will allow nada and the

FOO to devastate me with a single comment before I finally get it and

strengthen my defenses so they can't hurt me anymore.

January 4, 2004

,

To me - one of my struggles in being a " whole " person is feeling ALL

my feelings. I did the joy junkie bit for awhile - but really - when

we block out or avoid parts of our human experience - then we are

less than whole.

I hope someday to be able to experience life more fully. That doesn't

mean I will go out looking for pain, or trying to be hurt. But it

does mean I hope to not have to try to protect myself from hurt so

much... that I will be strong enough that when I am hurt - I can just

let that honest, authentic feeling flow right through and be

expressed - without the need to block it, judge it, or hold onto it.

Your brother repeated some things to you that were cruel and hurtful.

To be hurt by such things is an honest human emotion. I don't think

you have to justify why you listened to your brother. Listening to

someone does not give them permission to hurt us.

You were hurt. It wasn't your fault. You didn't deserve it. And you

felt hurt like most humans would in the same situtation.

Free

>

> > I know I'm being blunt, and I don't mean it in a mean way, but

why

> >do you listen to that crap from your brother? I mean, think

> > about it, why did he tell you that stuff? Does he enjoy the fact

> > that it hurts you? He must if you ask me.

>

> Tonight I'm left with mostly just anger at myself - anger because I

> let my defenses down around the FOO. Why did I listen? I don't

know,

> I guess because my life now is filled with people who are authentic

> and honest. When I'm away from nada and the FOO for a long time I

> forget what they do, I start to trust in the goodness of people and

> so I'm surprised by the junk that the FOO is capable of, even

though

> I KNOW BETTER. It's stupid, I know, I was raised by a nada and I

can

> still be taken off-guard. In some ways I guess that makes me human,

> but right now I think that makes me stupid.

>

> I talked to my mother-in-law tonight, she said some wonderful

things

> to me, including that I was a good person and that I just needed to

> focus on the people who love and care about me, and just walk away

> from those who would try to tear me down. She says that there's no

> place in life for hate and bitterness, only love, and that

everybody

> makes their own choice as far as how they choose to live and that I

> have no control over what other people do with their lives. All of

> this is good advice, and she's so wonderful because it's exactly

the

> kind of thing a real mother would say.

>

> So I guess I'm just left wondering how long I will allow nada and

the

> FOO to devastate me with a single comment before I finally get it

and

> strengthen my defenses so they can't hurt me anymore.

>

January 4, 2004

Vicki, What if 'the plan' is that your Nada was assigned to you so SHE could

learn from you this time. Just a thought. Carol

January 5, 2004

> > Tammy wrote or was it to tammy I am not sure :

you're not suffering because you did something wrong in a past