Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Tammy, I am wondering if ADHD is something you can catch from having a nada. My Jungian therapist thinks it is, but the guy treating me for ADHD thinks it is mainly genetic. My Jungian therapist didn't even know about ADHD before I told him about it. I am thinking more and more about losing him. I don't know about Strattera, but I am still getting the Ritalin dosage ajusted. It has had an incredible effect. I am definitely out of the tunnel, confident, and feeling good about myself. One month of treatment for ADHD has done more than years of therapy. My wife says I am a new person. The only problem is that the body identity feelings remain sky-high. Something very deep inside me believes that I cannot be free and have two legs both at the same time. I am hanging onto the lamp-post for dear life. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Hi Tammy, ADD/ADHD, sure. My hand is up. I think KOs get ADD and ADHD from being parented by a nada/fada. Dunno about any of the meds cuz I never took anything for it. I'm from the older generation and there wasn't anything for it when I was ADHDing my way through life. But I drink lots of coffee. I drink coffee at bedtime so I can go to sleep. There's a book called _Scattered_ that you can read five chapters of online at: http://www.scatteredminds.com/ - Edith legoarwen2003 wrote: > Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO with > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience treating > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me on > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to experiment > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out there > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you take? > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to meds? > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading Driven > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > I drink coffee at bedtime so I can go to sleep. That's cool, Edith, so do I. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 >Please don't take this as offensive, but I think your Jungian therapist is an idiot. Several of the posts where you have mentioned him have led me to that conclusion. I didn't want to say anything before because it's kind of disrespectful and if you were comfortable with him, then I felt I had no right to say anything negative. ADHD IS mostly genetic. My younger brother was diagnosed when he was eight. No one ever bothered to have me tested partly because I am the 'no-good child' and partly because I wasn't the one who was breaking furniture. I was just 'lazy' and 'forgetful'. I have no doubt that my nada's treatment of me exasperated my ADHD, but I don't think it caused it. I don't think your body identity feelings have anything to do with ADHD. I am curious about one thing, were you aware of those feelings before you started seeing the Jungian therapist? Is it possible that it was 'suggested' to you? I know I'm probably out-of-bounds here, but if I can't be totally honest here, where can I? Please don't be offended, I'm not trying to offend you, I'm just trying to understand you better. By all means, keep hanging on to the lamp post and remember that you are one of the bravest people I've ever come across. I really respect your inner strength. I'm glad the Ritalin is helping you, I'll let you know how I progress as we 'experiment' with the dosages. Thanks as always for your wisdom and support! Tammy Tammy, > > I am wondering if ADHD is something you can catch from having a > nada. My Jungian therapist thinks it is, but the guy treating me for > ADHD thinks it is mainly genetic. My Jungian therapist didn't even > know about ADHD before I told him about it. I am thinking more and > more about losing him. > > I don't know about Strattera, but I am still getting the Ritalin > dosage ajusted. It has had an incredible effect. I am definitely > out of the tunnel, confident, and feeling good about myself. One > month of treatment for ADHD has done more than years of therapy. My > wife says I am a new person. > > The only problem is that the body identity feelings remain sky- high. > Something very deep inside me believes that I cannot be free and have > two legs both at the same time. I am hanging onto the lamp-post for > dear life. > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > > Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO with > > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience treating > > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me on > > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to experiment > > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out there > > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you take? > > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to meds? > > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading Driven > > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > > > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > I'm trying to avoid the amphetamine based meds for now if I can. > Does anyone else out there (I know Dan does) have this problem? > What kind of meds do you take? How much? What works best for > you? Are there alternatives to meds? I've checked out some web > sites and I've just started reading Driven to Distraction. Are > there any other books that are helpful? Any advice that Dan or > anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > Tammy Hi Tammy, I was diagnosed with ADD about three years ago, I've been taking medication for the last 2.5 years, I take Adderall. The medication seemed to help me take the inside hyper activity and get it out. From what I understand, girls tend to daydream and " live in their heads, " boys tend to disrupt class " look at me, look at me, " (I'm sure there are exceptions as there always are.) That's why I believe I wasn't ever diagnosed with ADD until I was an adult. No one really noticed, they just thought I was lazy and disorganized. In fact, my nada was a pak rat and saved all of my report cards from kindergarten through 12th grade. I went through them (and threw them away) recently and found that every one of them had at least one teacher comment on my disorganization and lack of attention in class. I also made horrible grades most of the time. Anyway.. I've found that because I've been able to focus on some things, my life has changed, it isn't overwhelming and disorganized (or at least, not as MUCH) as it used to be. Now I've been decreasing my dose, from 40mg to 25mg a day, without much change in my concentration. So I think I've been retraining my brain, (and simplifying my life) with the help of the medication. Maybe this is not true for everyone, but for me, I believe I'll eventually " unlearn " the ADD. (So far, I have to a great extent.) Since I feel I've been able to unlearn some of it, this obviously suggests I don't belive I was " born " with ADD. I think I developed it by growing up in a chaotic, stressful environment. (I'm sure there are plenty of scientific " facts " that could prove me wrong on that, oh well.) I believe this because this is what my expereince has shown me. Cutting off contact with my parents (at least for the time being) a little over a year ago, was probably MORE helpful than the medication. I think distraction was a defense mechanisim I developed and used in order to avoid the reality of my life, which was that my LIFE (not necessarily my brain) was terribly disorganized, chaotic, stressful and confusing. I think that if I'd grown up in a more supportive atmosphere, I would have been just a creative, curious, lively kid, not someone who would be diagnosed with ADD. Just my opinion, once again. A book I read when I first got the diagnosis of ADD is, " Women with Attention Deficit Disorder, " by Sari Solden. It is a good book and it focuses on the unique problems women with ADD seem to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > Hi Tammy, > > ADD/ADHD, sure. My hand is up. I think KOs get ADD and ADHD from > being parented by a nada/fada. Dunno about any of the meds cuz I > never took anything for it. I'm from the older generation and there > wasn't anything for it when I was ADHDing my way through life. But > I drink lots of coffee. I drink coffee at bedtime so I can go to > sleep. There's a book called _Scattered_ that you can read five > chapters of online at: http://www.scatteredminds.com/ > > - Edith One of the most " productive and together " times in my life (before the ADD diagnosis and medication) was when I was working as a barista (coffee waitress) in a coffe shop. People constantly told me how " perky " and outgoing I was. That's when I learned that I actually LIKE people. Before this, I thought I was an introvert, well I guess I was, but that wasn't *really* who I was/am. Same thing after I started taking the medication, I seemed more hyper than before, but really, I *felt* less hyper. Now if I have caffeine AND my medication, I can get a little annoying, at least to myself. ha ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > >Thanks ! What actually led to my diagnosis was when I complained to my therapist that all of the exercises I had read about in SBP (Surviving a Borderline Parent) weren't helping. My therapist then gave me a few suggestions I should try as well. Nothing worked. I couldn't control the disassociation even when I FOCUSED on it to try to control it. I was so frustrated because it became obvious to me that my disassociation was the root of my communication problems with my husband. That led to the evaluation and eventual diagnosis. My doctor is giving me 20 mg. a day to start with of Straterra. I will eventually work up to 80 mg. a day and if that doesn't help, he wants to try Adderall next. I think my problem is mostly genetic, but I have no doubt that growing up in a disfunctional family contributed. I just want to know how it feels to have a 'quiet brain'. My brain never shuts up, even when I try to meditate or focus on my 'imaginary meadow' which is my safe place where I go when I get scared. I'm so frustrated! Thanks for the input! Tammy I'm trying to avoid the amphetamine based meds for now if I can. > > Does anyone else out there (I know Dan does) have this problem? > > What kind of meds do you take? How much? What works best for > > you? Are there alternatives to meds? I've checked out some web > > sites and I've just started reading Driven to Distraction. Are > > there any other books that are helpful? Any advice that Dan or > > anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > > > Tammy > > Hi Tammy, > I was diagnosed with ADD about three years ago, I've been taking > medication for the last 2.5 years, I take Adderall. The medication > seemed to help me take the inside hyper activity and get it out. > From what I understand, girls tend to daydream and " live in their > heads, " boys tend to disrupt class " look at me, look at me, " (I'm > sure there are exceptions as there always are.) That's why I believe > I wasn't ever diagnosed with ADD until I was an adult. No one really > noticed, they just thought I was lazy and disorganized. > > In fact, my nada was a pak rat and saved all of my report cards from > kindergarten through 12th grade. I went through them (and threw them > away) recently and found that every one of them had at least one > teacher comment on my disorganization and lack of attention in class. > I also made horrible grades most of the time. > > Anyway.. I've found that because I've been able to focus on some > things, my life has changed, it isn't overwhelming and disorganized > (or at least, not as MUCH) as it used to be. Now I've been > decreasing my dose, from 40mg to 25mg a day, without much change in > my concentration. So I think I've been retraining my brain, (and > simplifying my life) with the help of the medication. Maybe this is > not true for everyone, but for me, I believe I'll > eventually " unlearn " the ADD. (So far, I have to a great extent.) > > Since I feel I've been able to unlearn some of it, this obviously > suggests I don't belive I was " born " with ADD. I think I developed > it by growing up in a chaotic, stressful environment. (I'm sure > there are plenty of scientific " facts " that could prove me wrong on > that, oh well.) I believe this because this is what my expereince > has shown me. > > Cutting off contact with my parents (at least for the time being) a > little over a year ago, was probably MORE helpful than the > medication. I think distraction was a defense mechanisim I developed > and used in order to avoid the reality of my life, which was that my > LIFE (not necessarily my brain) was terribly disorganized, chaotic, > stressful and confusing. I think that if I'd grown up in a more > supportive atmosphere, I would have been just a creative, curious, > lively kid, not someone who would be diagnosed with ADD. Just my > opinion, once again. > > A book I read when I first got the diagnosis of ADD is, " Women with > Attention Deficit Disorder, " by Sari Solden. It is a good book and > it focuses on the unique problems women with ADD seem to have. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 > > Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO with > > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience treating > > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me on > > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to experiment > > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out there > > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you take? > > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to meds? > > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading Driven > > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > > > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Hi Tammy, > I don't think your body identity feelings have anything to do > with ADHD. I don't think so either, because the treatment is helping the ADHD and not the body identity feelings. > I am curious about one thing, were you > aware of those feelings before you started seeing the Jungian > therapist? I have been aware of the body identity problem since I was 5 years old, maybe earlier. I always felt terribly ashamed of it, since at the age of 5 I told my mother how jealous I was of an amputee man and I saw her reaction. The increase in these feelings was the reason I sought therapy two years ago. My sister told me several years ago that she thought I had ADHD, but I didn't take it seriously until recently. She also was the first one to find out that BPD accurately described our mother. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 , The Ritalin I am taking, I think it is an amphetamine-based medication. A stimulant, anyway. Its effect is to calm me rather than to make me hyper. It is like when I drink coffee and then go right to sleep. I think you are right that ADD can be a result of a chaotic upbringing, although medical science hasn't caught on to that yet. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 In a message dated 11/28/03 4:40:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, KYamada187 writes: http://add.about.com/cs/addthebasics/a/add.htm The above website contains an excellent definition of the differences between male and female ADD/ADHD; you can easily see that, like heart disease, past research has mostly focused on males. I, for instance, never understood why my memory was so faulty, and my pms so horrible and uncontrollable. Now that I've achieved complete menopause, I no longer combat pms, but I must still keep my life very simple to avoid serious memory problems, and the complications resulting from that. I'd like to avoid medication, if at all possible. Please read the above website, and explore all the links. Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO with > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience treating > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me on > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to experiment > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out there > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you take? > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to meds? > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading Driven > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be helpful. > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 I remember telling people this worked for me the few times I did it. But.....I kept forgetting to do it myself ..ggggg Thanks for reminding me; have been on vacation from my job the past week, and it's been wooonderful! So relaxing. What I do, to get approximately 7 hours of sleep per night, is go to bed around 7 pm and wake up finally around 7 or 8 a.m... How do I manage 7 whole hours of blissful rested blessed sleep within a 12 hour period of time? I wake up all night long, but knowing I don't have to jump up at 4:30 a.m. and get ready for work, I can just happily close my eyes and sleep eventually comes back. Hey, I'll try to remember the coffee routine tonight and see what happens. Tomorrow, I go back to work. > > > > Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO > with > > > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience > treating > > > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > > > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me > on > > > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > > > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to > experiment > > > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > > > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out > there > > > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you > take? > > > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to > meds? > > > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading > Driven > > > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > > > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be > helpful. > > > > > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > > > > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 , I looked at that ADD website but it was frustrating. I looked at the ingredients of their alternative " nutritional " medication. All but one of the ingredients, I have been taking for quite a while as nutritional supplements, mainly to make my wife happy. I have not noticed any effect on moods or feelings, but maybe it helps overall health. There were lots of books for sale on the website. I have read so many books I could croak. I had a dream about burglars. I naively let them into the house and they beat me up. They beat up my father too. My Jungian shrink suggested that the Ritalin is letting the burglars into my mind, and the burglars could represent my mother's masculine side - taking everything, castrating, controlling. Maybe so. Maybe he is full of s***. All I am sure of is that the Ritalin has made a dramatic change, and that years of therapy, self-help books, prayer, meditation, and navel-gazing have not made a noticeable change. What if I have let the burglars into my mind and do not have the strength to drive them out? Maybe there is no hope for me, I am damned since birth, and I may as well find out the truth instead of wasting the rest of my life pursuing an illusion. I cannot go back. If I were to quit the Ritalin now, and return into the tunnel after having glimpsed the world outside the tunnel, I would be so depressed I would be at risk of suicide. I cannot see to go forward. The burglars, tigers, and bears are arrayed in my unconscious, waiting to destroy me if I dare to try to get well. Thank you, dear mother, for such a gift to watch over me, so I cannot become frighteningly different from you. I was in an OK mood when I went into the shrink's office. Now I am in a totally poisonous mood. Has anyone else experienced that? If it is a crisis that can lead to a resolution, I cannot see it from here. I feel like this talk therapy is a path straight to hell. I feel like the Ritalin is helping but only if I keep moving toward the final solution of the body identity problem. Maybe all paths lead to hell for someone as damaged as me. They shoot horses, don't they? - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 --- In ModOasis , " woofer95828 " <KYamada187@a...> I, Gee, I wish I could be that lucky. I LIVE for menopause. I'm 42 and got 'spayed' a couple of years ago, so having more kids si not in the equation anymore. My PMS is so bad I have to take antidepressants just to keep from killing anyone. LOL! Tammy for instance, > never understood why my memory was so faulty, and my pms so horrible > and uncontrollable. > > > > Just when life couldn't get any stranger! On top of being a KO with > > PTSD, I'm also ADHD. My family doctor (who has experience treating > > it) did an evaluation on me on Friday and my therapist has also > > evaluated me. They both agree I am ADHD. My doctor started me on > > Strattera yesterday. I can't really tell much difference yet but > > then I'm on a low dosage to start with and we're going to > experiment > > with it for a while to find what works. I'm trying to avoid the > > amphetamine based meds for now if I can. Does anyone else out > there > > (I know Dan does) have this problem? What kind of meds do you > take? > > How much? What works best for you? Are there alternatives to > meds? > > I've checked out some web sites and I've just started reading > Driven > > to Distraction. Are there any other books that are helpful? Any > > advice that Dan or anyone else can give me on this would be > helpful. > > > > Thanks! I love that I can always count on you guys for help! > > > > Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 >Dan, I dream about executioners and strangers 'hovering' over me while I sleep. It's horrific. I can't breath when that happens, as if I have a blanket over my face. When I finally break the paralysis (this always happens during sleep paralysis episodes), there is never anything covering my face. Don't stop the Ritalin if it's helping you that much. It might be interesting though to experiment and stop taking it for a few days to see if the dreams stop. If not, I think you have the strength to drive the burglers out. You've been strong enough to keep your legs since you were five, so the burglars kinda seem like a no-brainer!lol! What do mean by finding the truth instead of wasting the rest of your life pursuing an illusion? I read your posts and I see that you are a very valuable person. I just wish you could appreciate your value. I don't believe anyone is damned from birth, even us KO's. We just have bigger challenges than most people. Hopefully, that makes us stronger. I know I sound trite sometimes, but I really believe that we all have a purpose, maybe a KOs purpose is to be the strong ones. Lets face it, we ain't wimps! You can't be a wimp and survive what we have! I have never left the therapists office in what I would call a poisonous mood, but I have left and spent the entire trip home and several days later screaming and crying. I have had days when I feel like this pain is so deep and so endless that there is no point in trying to heal it, but then I have a good day and it makes it all worthwhile. My goal is just to reach the end of my life knowing that I did the right thing by myself. I learned long ago (nadas are good at this) that I can't control other people, but I sure as hell have control over myself. To hell with everyone else if they can't or won't love me or accept me. I can live just fine without them. My nadas gifts of horror are her bad, not mine. She's the one that has to answer for them. I just have to deal with them. I have the easy part. I'm a firm believer in 'what comes around, goes around' and our nadas have it coming to them. Would you want to live with your nadas soul? I wouldn't want to live with my nadas issues. She made some choices that she will have to answer for. I would kill myself if I were her. I wouldn't want to face the consequences. I don't know if there is such a thing as Judgement Day or not, but wouldn't it be cool if there was and as part of their punishment we were allowed to decide the consequences? SWEET! I'm sorry you're feeling so down today, maybe tomorrow will be better. I will keep you in my thoughts. God Bless You, Tammy , > > I looked at that ADD website but it was frustrating. I looked at > the ingredients of their alternative " nutritional " medication. All > but one of the ingredients, I have been taking for quite a while as > nutritional supplements, mainly to make my wife happy. I have not > noticed any effect on moods or feelings, but maybe it helps overall > health. > > There were lots of books for sale on the website. I have read so > many books I could croak. > > I had a dream about burglars. I naively let them into the house and > they beat me up. They beat up my father too. My Jungian shrink > suggested that the Ritalin is letting the burglars into my mind, and > the burglars could represent my mother's masculine side - taking > everything, castrating, controlling. Maybe so. Maybe he is full of > s***. All I am sure of is that the Ritalin has made a dramatic > change, and that years of therapy, self-help books, prayer, > meditation, and navel-gazing have not made a noticeable change. > What if I have let the burglars into my mind and do not have the > strength to drive them out? Maybe there is no hope for me, I am > damned since birth, and I may as well find out the truth instead of > wasting the rest of my life pursuing an illusion. > > I cannot go back. If I were to quit the Ritalin now, and return > into the tunnel after having glimpsed the world outside the tunnel, > I would be so depressed I would be at risk of suicide. > > I cannot see to go forward. The burglars, tigers, and bears are > arrayed in my unconscious, waiting to destroy me if I dare to try to > get well. Thank you, dear mother, for such a gift to watch over me, > so I cannot become frighteningly different from you. > > I was in an OK mood when I went into the shrink's office. Now I am > in a totally poisonous mood. Has anyone else experienced that? If > it is a crisis that can lead to a resolution, I cannot see it from > here. I feel like this talk therapy is a path straight to hell. I > feel like the Ritalin is helping but only if I keep moving toward > the final solution of the body identity problem. > > Maybe all paths lead to hell for someone as damaged as me. They > shoot horses, don't they? > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 Tammy, Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I think this kind of thing helps me more than therapy. I used to have really scary dreams like yours when I was a kid, but now they aren't usually so bad. Before starting the Ritalin I had a whole series of dreams in which I was lost in endless corridors, often in a wheelchair. There was no way out. This burglar dream was much less upsetting than those. I need to learn to fight the burlars, even if I will lose, rather than keeping everybody out because they might be a burglar. > What do mean by finding the truth instead of wasting the rest > of your life pursuing an illusion? The illusion is that I can conquer all the demons if I am a good enough person, work hard enough, and do enough therapy. It is the big lie of the Nazis, of my mother, and perhaps of my therapist too: " Arbeit macht frei " . > We just have bigger challenges than most people. Much bigger. My wished-for physical disability would be nothing in comparison. Just an external symbol of the internal reality. > Would you want to live with your nadas soul? > I would kill myself if I were her. I would too. My worst nightmare is to be like her. > I don't know if there is such a thing as Judgement Day or not, > but wouldn't it be cool if there was and as part of their > punishment we were allowed to decide the consequences? I don't need to. I could never be as harsh on her as she is on herself. She has chosen oblivion. She wishes that there be no record of her existence. She told me, when I was 4, that I would learn to look forward to oblivion, too. I refuse that. I want life. I want to be as different from her as I can. Maybe wanting to have a different body form than her is a bit extreme, but there it is. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 > > What do mean by finding the truth instead of wasting the rest > > of your life pursuing an illusion? > > The illusion is that I can conquer all the demons if I am a good > enough person, work hard enough, and do enough therapy. It is the > big lie of the Nazis, of my mother, and perhaps of my therapist > too: " Arbeit macht frei " . I don't agree that it is an illusion that you can conquer all the demons if you are a good enough person, work hard enough, and do enough therapy. I think perhaps my 'annoyingly sunny' disposition is due to something I had as a child that I have a gut feeling you didn't. A mitigating factor. You see, my paternal grandmother was my saving grace. She taught me so many things, but I think the greatest gift from her was that she offset my mothers abuse. She treated me with kindness and unconditional love and always made me feel that I had value. She died suddenly when I was 12 and my world came crashing down on me. She was my safety net. I always felt that if and when my mom ever decided she didn't want me anymore, my grandma would take care of me. From that day forward, I suffered from severe depression and attempted suicide many times in my teens. I finally stopped trying to kill myself when I decided that I was going to live just to spite my mother. What a b***h I am!LOL! > > > Would you want to live with your nadas soul? > > I would kill myself if I were her. > > I would too. My worst nightmare is to be like her. >Me too. In fact, I have spent many years making damn sure that I am the exact opposite of her. She only wears dresses, I only wear pants, she wears lots of makeup and goes ballistic if she breaks a nail, I wear little or no makeup (I have a beautiful face, why cover it up?) and I chew all my fingernails off. Disgusting, I know, but it pisses her off to no end! She is a slut, I am extremely monogamous. You get the idea. > > I don't know if there is such a thing as Judgement Day or not, > > but wouldn't it be cool if there was and as part of their > > punishment we were allowed to decide the consequences? > > I don't need to. I could never be as harsh on her as she is on > herself. She has chosen oblivion. She wishes that there be no > record of her existence. She told me, when I was 4, that I would > learn to look forward to oblivion, too. I refuse that. I want > life. I want to be as different from her as I can. Maybe wanting to > have a different body form than her is a bit extreme, but there it is. > This is cold, but give her oblivion. Pretend she doesn't exist and when she dies, bury her in an unmarked grave. Better yet, have her cremated and scatter her ashes. How can anyone tell a 4 yr. old to look forward to oblivion? That's just sick! Life is so beautiful! You can find beauty in the simplest things. One of my favorites is to go to the local maternity ward and see all the new babies. So much hope and promise there. My other favorite thing is to wander through old graveyards. It's interesting to read the names and wonder what kind of lives they had. Sometimes I just sit in front of someones tombstone and fantasize about what they looked like and what they did with their lives. NOW I can honestly say that your one- legged self-image makes sense. It's an extreme example of the very same things I have done to be different than my nada. If I had not had the mitigating factor of my wonderful grandmother, I would probably have a self-image of having no breasts because that was the first part of my anatomy that my mother attacked when I hit puberty. I didn't want to have breasts. I thought it wasn't okay to be a girl and have always pursued masculine interests (like working as an electronic technician). I felt that my femininity was a threat to my survival, so I tried my best not to be feminine. Kinda like being an amputee, huh? Am I right? Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 > This is cold, but give her oblivion. Pretend she doesn't exist and > when she dies, bury her in an unmarked grave. Better yet, have her > cremated and scatter her ashes. Tammy, I won't have anything to do with her funeral arrangements. My sister, who always tried to patch all the family problems, and who got my parents to move to the same town with her, will do that. But the unmarked grave or the scattered ashes, that is what my mother would wish and my sister will probably grant. My parents once wanted me to co-sign their " living will " . Its provisions were so anti-life that to follow it would be illegal. My sister took on that responsibility instead of me. She said that she would be willing to go to prison in order to grant them their wishes. > My other favorite thing is to wander through old graveyards In rural France I came upon an old church that had a catacombe under it. There was an iron grate and inside you could see lots of skulls and bones. There was an inscription above the grate: " We were once as you are now, and you will be as we are now " . I did wonder about and try to imagine their lives. > If I had not had the mitigating factor of my > wonderful grandmother... That can make all the difference, even in the most serious case of abuse. I am coming to understand that a lot of the torture that my ex-wife heaped on me, using the American legal system as her tool, came to me because I was unable to defend myself, because I nobody had ever been there to defend me. My wife finished reading UBM. She said she could not have imagined anybody behaving like the BPDs described in the book. She saw that my parents were weird, but she discounted my reality about having grown up with them. She said that she could understand why the legal system treated me so badly, because most people could not comprehend that someone like my ex-wife might be able to manipulate their beliefs so effectively. They would simply assume I was guilty as charged. > ... so I tried my best not to be feminine. > Kinda like being an amputee, huh? Am I right? Sort of. Cast away an unacceptable part but not the masculine part, a part of my choice and not hers. Become like Long Silver - masculine, dangerous, sure of himself, able to defend himself. I think that many amputees became pirates because society used them to do its dirty work, as sailors, and then turned its back on them when they became disabled. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 > My wife finished reading UBM. She said she could not have imagined > anybody behaving like the BPDs described in the book. She saw that > my parents were weird, but she discounted my reality about having > grown up with them. She said that she could understand why the legal > system treated me so badly, because most people could not comprehend > that someone like my ex-wife might be able to manipulate their > beliefs so effectively. They would simply assume I was guilty as > charged. > You've got that right! How many people have you ever tried to describe BPD to that actually understood what you were talking about? I gave up trying. I don't talk about it except with my husband, my therapists, and of course you guys. No one else has a clue. I can imagine myself in a courtroom trying to prove my mothers abuse, they would think I was the one who was crazy because no one believes mothers are capable of hurting their own children. You and I and everyone else at this site knows differently. And the thing is, my mother would sit there looking and acting perfectly normal and giving the judge this look like 'see who the crazy one is?' and the judge would BUY it, because unless you've seen the witch in action, you don't have a clue that she's capable of attrocities. > > ... so I tried my best not to be feminine. > > Kinda like being an amputee, huh? Am I right? > > Sort of. Cast away an unacceptable part but not the masculine part, > a part of my choice and not hers. Become like Long Silver - > masculine, dangerous, sure of himself, able to defend himself. I > think that many amputees became pirates because society used them to > do its dirty work, as sailors, and then turned its back on them when > they became disabled. I never thought of pirates that way before, but you make an excellent point. And let's face it, if you were an amputee, you would be cast away just like the pirates. I used to get so pissed off at some of the other teachers when I was working with the handicapped kids. I remember one day, one of the first grade teachers asked me what was wrong with one of the autisitic kids who was being especially difficult. I could read in her face that she was thinking " please God, don't put that monster in my classroom! " . I told her he was upset because he wanted another cookie and he couldn't have any more, I then proceeded to ask her " What the hell is YOUR problem? " It is illegal for anyone not associated with the child's care to ask any questions or have any knowledge of the child's disability and she damn well knew it was wrong for her to ask. I can also relate to the idea of a pirate (and you) wanting to be sure of themselves and able to defend themselves. I'm physically very small, and I know that's where my discomfort with being female comes from, because everyone is bigger than I am, including my nada. I more than make up for it with this 'don't f**k with me' attitude. I'm amazed at how well it works. I spent so many years feeling helpless and hopeless (and sometimes I still do) that I would just about kill anyone who tried to abuse me again. I've had enough misery to last many lifetimes! Tammy > > - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2003 Report Share Posted December 3, 2003 > I'm physically very small, and I know that's where my discomfort > with being female comes from, because everyone is bigger than I am, > including my nada. Tammy, I am physically large. This isn't all it is cracked up to be. It means that before people attack, they enlist help. I have practically never been attacked by one person alone. I can walk through the ghetto and not be afraid. It is among upstanding people who appear to be of my own ethnic group that I am afraid. They gang up, especially when they discover that I am not like them inside. Long Silver used his crutch to kill a man. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 > > I'm physically very small, and I know that's where my discomfort > > with being female comes from, because everyone is bigger than I am, > > including my nada. > > Tammy, I am physically large. This isn't all it is cracked up to > be. It means that before people attack, they enlist help. I have > practically never been attacked by one person alone. > Wow! I never thought of that! I think it's worse to have to battle more than one person at a time. My father says that what I lack in size, I more than make up for in 'intestinal fortitude' LOL! I love that and I think it's very true! > I can walk through the ghetto and not be afraid. It is among > upstanding people who appear to be of my own ethnic group that I am > afraid. They gang up, especially when they discover that I am not > like them inside. > Yea, have you ever noticed it's the 'upstanding' people who are the most vile? I think it's because they're all just nadas and fadas pretending to be something they are not. The truly genuine people I know don't 'project' an image of being a good citizen or a good christian or jew or whatever label they identify themselves with, they just are. > Long Silver used his crutch to kill a man. I'm going to have to find a book on him. Reading all of your posts about LJS intrigues me. What were the circumstances? I bet the guy needed killing. My great-great grandfather on my father's side was a notorious vigilante. I have a great deal of respect for him because for a long time, he refused to get involved in the american civil war, but then his farm was attacked and the soldiers hung his 13 yr. old son from an oak tree in the yard and burned his house (luckily it was made of stone, so it still stands). He killed 88 people before he was shot in the back at the age of 36. I know it seems kind of sick to admire someone like that, but he only killed 'evil' people, not only those responsible for his son's death, but also those he discovered in his travels (he was a guerilla fighter) who commited attrocities upon innocents. I think his actions were appropriate for his time. Not a lot of people agree with me, but then none of those who do have any concept of how evil some people can be, like nadas. (she's the lady in south - or is it north- I don't remember - Carolina that killed her two babies because her boyfriend broke up with her because she had children). Even her ex-husband said that when he visited her in jail, all she talked about was how her being arrested would affect HER. SICK! She deserves to die! She didn't choose to be BPD, but she did choose to kill her babies. I hate that people use mental illness or war or some other stupid reason for an excuse to kill. Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2003 Report Share Posted December 4, 2003 Hi Tammy, > I'm going to have to find a book on him. [Long Silver] " Treasure Island " by Louis son. You can read a little about it at http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/services/treasure/ It is a classic of escapist, adventurous, adolescent literature. Read it, it is fun for all ages, or rent one of the several films made from it. > I bet the guy needed killing. As I remember, it was one crook killing another so as not to share the treasure. > I hate that people use mental illness or war or some other stupid > reason for an excuse to kill. I agree 100%. Everybody should be responsible for their actions. If someone is completely unable to control their impulses, and is dangerous to others, the sooner they are locked up the better. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 > Hi Tammy, > > > I'm going to have to find a book on him. [Long Silver] > > " Treasure Island " by Louis son. You can read a little > about it at > http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/services/treasure/ > > It is a classic of escapist, adventurous, adolescent literature. > Read it, it is fun for all ages, or rent one of the several films > made from it. > You mean he's not real?!? Goes to show what I know. I will definitely pick up the book. My 11 yr. old son would probably enjoy reading it also. Really, I thought Long Silver was a real person, kind of like the Red (HE was real, wasn't he?), you know one of those lengendary characters who's life story has fascinated people through the ages. > > I hate that people use mental illness or war or some other stupid > > reason for an excuse to kill. > > I agree 100%. Everybody should be responsible for their actions. If > someone is completely unable to control their impulses, and is > dangerous to others, the sooner they are locked up the better. > > - Dan AMEN! Too bad it doesn't alway happen that way. Your ex-wife sounds like she is one of them even if she didn't 'literally' kill you. (And your nada for that matter!) Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 > You mean he's not real?!? Goes to show what I know. Tammy, I think that fictional characters can seem more real than real people. They represent archetypes. We can see into their thoughts. " Treasure Island " should be fun for an 11 year old. Wean him away from video games for a while, unless he is part of the 1% who are not addicted. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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