Re: Introduction / question

[Guest guest]

estrangement is really difficult and our decision to do so is scary because it

can look bad to people who don't understand, and not many do. the one thing

i've heard about bp is that it escalates and the campaigns get more intense when

their is abandonment. when she leaves a boyfriend or loses a spouse, i think

you can expect the problem to get larger because she is looking for her next

victim to suck on to and they go back to the drama and distortion to real in

someone to complete her. i'd love the same resources as you, i've said that i

wouldn't even get near my nada and fada until one or both had at least 6 months

of therapy. so far she gets to session 6, changes therapist or starts blaming

the therapist or tells me that the therapist says that my communicating with her

about the issue is abusive. i think that she holds her act up for 6 sessions

and once it gets close to doing some real work, she runs. we've made a really

tough decision and if we were leaving an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend, we'd

be applauded by society--when it's a parent, the reaction from the outside is

very different: but it's your mother, it's your father...tough, tiki

Introduction / question

Greetings fellow Nons,

I have been lurking on this list for some time, so I thought it would

be nice to make an introduction. I'm 25, male, only child, married,

etc. etc.

I realized that my nada (I actually prefer " unmother " , but what's the

difference?) had problems years ago, but was never " detached " from

the situation enough to _really_ " get it " until a few years back.

Looking back she always had BP tendencies, but it wasn't until after

my dad died that I really became her sole target of abuse. I think

that he simultaneously diffused a lot of her really extreme BP

behavior through his calm, passive nature, but at the same time

reinforced it by pandering to her needs. Is this common?

In the past year, nada's behavior has gotten really extreme

(distortion campaigns against her husband, extreme

dissociation/rationalization/splitting, piling on the guilt, lots of

projection, crazy moodswings, etc.), and I've essentially " divorced "

her unless she shows some resolve to change. I've heard that since

then she's become addicted to gambling, has been drinking heavily and

got a new boyfriend (her divorce to her husband who she's _known_

barely three years isn't final yet), so I don't think that she'll

decide to seek therapy (and, of course, she isn't diagnosed or

anything, either).

I've been learning a lot about BPD through this group and through

SWOE, and it feels good to know I'm not the only one who's gone

through this.

Before I go back into lurkerdom, I have a question- are there any

resources out there (electronic or otherwise) that deal with children

that have broken contact with ther parents? Of course if they focused

on non-BP children of a BP parent, that would be ideal, but any

resource dealing with estrangement from parents would be helpful.

-Z.

[Guest guest]

Welcome from Lurkdom, Z! Hope you stay around and post some more.

I'm no expert, but I've been through total estrangement for 4+ years.

She died a few months ago.

It was sheer hxll at first. I didn't know about BPD, and I had no

resources other than my widdle ol' self. When I wrote mother a short

note saying I deserved to be treated with dignity and respect and that

I'd no longer do her taxes, I expected her to respond with at least some

concern. Nope! Her reaction was no reaction, other than to spend the

rest of her 4 years of life trying to get even behind my back with

everyone and anyone who would listen and believe her.

I went from being split all-good since birth to slime of the earth!

Before the estrangement, she had unjustly accused me of major credit

card fraud, and nothing I said mattered. That's why I stopped doing her

taxes. Looking back, it was a huge " abandonment coup " that whacked her

pretty good, only because of her inability to step outside of herself

for even a minute. I merely intended it to be a strong statement to

wake her up, but there's no waking up a sleepin' BPD mother. Over a

year later, she called hubby at work to unjustly accuse me of major

fraud, and nothing he said mattered. At that time I thought the world

had ended. What would she do next?

Over time, I came to realize the depth and extent of the distortion

campaigns she'd been waging against me, even " before " the estrangement.

Everyone one alive today who knows me, other than a few close friends

she'd never met, had the seeds of doubt planted in their minds.

Everyone, even the retirement home who agreed to care for her for life

in exchange for her entire estate at death, thought she was a sweet old

lady, took the hook. They soon learned after the ink was dry that

they'd gotten themselves into a big mess!

To be forewarned is to be fore-armed. For me, estrangement was the only

way, but I wasn't prepared for the backlashes. I sank pretty low for

awhile, but I was NOT going to go crawling back, because I knew I could

never trust her again. I was in it for the long haul, whatever it

brought. And I was scared. Tons!

Eventually I learned about BPD - Ah! Ha! and that I wasn't alone any

more. Slowly I built up strength, as everything I thought had been real

about mother crashed before my very eyes. Gradually, I stopped caring

what mother thought of me. And....... I learned to stop caring about

what others thought of me too, but that was very difficult to learn.

Gradually, I started caring about My Self more than others, but I still

backslide in that area now and then.

Mother is six feet under now, but it's still not over. No, she can't

hurt me directly any more, but I'm still rewriting HerStory, which will

probably be an ongoing process for the rest of my life.

But, I can look back and see where I was, and where I am now. I like

where I am, and I understand where I used to be a lot better. I have no

regrets. I'd do it over again, without hesitation.

As for the estrangement itself, there are no simple answers. I was

fortunate in that I didn't have a lot of extended family, so I didn't

have to deal with antagonistic relatives on a daily basis. Each

situation is different, but one thing seems to be assured. Setting

boundaries, and estrangement is a huge one, is bound to bring backlashes

of varying degrees.

The simple truth is, there's no living with a BPD mother, but there's

life after the termination of the relationship. Backlashes are

inevitable and difficult, but it was also wonderful not having them

around anymore. With the relationship, it was all crap. Without the

relationship, there was " different " crap mixed in with the well being

that came from not having her in my life anymore. Does that make sense?

Smiles!

Carol M

Zahgurim wrote:

> Before I go back into lurkerdom, I have a question- are there any

> resources out there (electronic or otherwise) that deal with children

> that have broken contact with ther parents? Of course if they focused

> on non-BP children of a BP parent, that would be ideal, but any

> resource dealing with estrangement from parents would be helpful.

[Guest guest]

Carol, Nons,

Thanks for your story. I have some friends (IRL) that have seperated

from their parents, but their situations were very different from

mine. It's good to get another, more similar perspective.

> Welcome from Lurkdom, Z! Hope you stay around and post some more.

>

I will most likely post on occasion, but frankly this list is

difficult to keep up with! I find it hard to even skim through the

posts daily, let alone post with any regularity. But you can be

assured that this won't be the last you'll hear from me.

[snip!]

I expected her to respond with at least some

> concern. Nope! Her reaction was no reaction, other than to spend

the

> rest of her 4 years of life trying to get even behind my back with

> everyone and anyone who would listen and believe her.

Fortunately my nada lives about 200 miles away and really doesn't

know many of the people that I have contact with. I also plan on

moving across the country in the next year. So, as long as the rest

of the family doesn't give out my contact info. (I don't think they

would), she won't even know where I live.

[snip!]

>

> Over time, I came to realize the depth and extent of the distortion

> campaigns she'd been waging against me, even " before " the

estrangement.

My nada paints me as the " perfect son " to most people, although it

wouldn't surprise me if I were now the " bad guy. " It really doesn't

matter to me either way, because there is so much polarity between

the two. I could never be either things that she portrays me as

(wholly " good " or " evil " - those are subjective terms anyway).

[snip!]

> Mother is six feet under now, but it's still not over. No, she

can't

> hurt me directly any more, but I'm still rewriting HerStory, which

will

> probably be an ongoing process for the rest of my life.

Even if your mother didn't have BP, it's still a good practice

to " revisit " certain scenarios from your past and redefine and

interpret them. In my opinion, of course.

[snip!]

> The simple truth is, there's no living with a BPD mother, but

there's

> life after the termination of the relationship. Backlashes are

> inevitable and difficult, but it was also wonderful not having them

> around anymore. With the relationship, it was all crap. Without

the

> relationship, there was " different " crap mixed in with the well

being

> that came from not having her in my life anymore. Does that make

sense?

That makes perfect sense I totally agree with you. I know there

are others that choose to endure the BP behavior to some extent in

order to keep the person in their life... But I just can't. It's too

stressful, too painful for me to continue it. Even with therapy. I

was able to create my own boundaries, confront my codependency, etc.;

but her behavior was still there, and it was taking a toll on me

emotionally. I couldn't keep up friendships or remain social because

of the emotional ringer I was going through.

Now that I'm semi-free of her (it's only been a few months), I feel

relieved for not having that stress around all the time, yet it makes

me sad that it came to this. I pity her, that she can't live a normal

life without strife and inner turmoil.

But I feel free to resume my life again, and that's really what

matters.

Cheers (and hang in there, yourself!),

-Z.

[Guest guest]

Hi Z-

I lived 400 miles away, and even that didn't insulate me. And even if I

had hidden from her, she still would have waged distortion campaigns

with my dad and brother who lived 3000 miles away, and with various

other family members and friends. In fact, SHE tried to hide from ME,

by selling her house and buying another one in a friggin' hot windy

desert 150 miles away. Over the years I had begged her to move near me,

so I could look after her. Oh no, it was too hot where I lived. Huh!

She planted seeds of doubt about my good name and reputation with

everyone we mutually knew, and would listen. She was the Pity-Pot Queen

of all time. I'm still astounded at how people still say, " I had no

idea she was an alcoholic! " Mother was the nicest person you'd ever

want to meet! She could fool the best of them, and did, right up to the

end.

My father just recently admitted that mother had indeed talked to him

about the false credit card accusations. He said, " Your mother told me

you had opened up credit card accounts using her name and SS#. " Dad

said to her, " J----, Carol wouldn't do anything like that. " And mother

replied, " Oh yes she would. That's the kind of person she is. " I don't

think dad " really " believed her, but it caused a lot of doubt, not only

in his mind, but in everyone else's mind that she told. No one will

accept that she was mentally ill. Alcoholic, yes, after the initial

shock that she had a drinking problem. She was a very normal-looking,

normal-acting, law-abiding citizen who had held down a responsible job

with top government security clearances. She was a closet drinker who

managed to hide it from her doctors, even in these latter years. She

was likable and lovable, and people were naturally drawn to her,

although she maintained a certain distance or aloofness. Who wouldn't

believe a poor sweet old lady? It's a fact that most elder financial

abuse is wielded by close relatives, so I had compelling reasons to bail

out of her life. I didn't need to run up horrific attorney bills

defending myself against bogus lawsuits. She had already seen an

attorney, who said mother was lucid, cognizant, and in full control of

her faculties.

People will believe what they want, and I can't change that. I know who

I am, and if they can't step outside their Belief Box to see the truth,

then they're not worth my time. It took ME 50+ years to realize mother

was more than an alcoholic, but insane. So how can I expect others to

take it lightly. To believe me is to disbelieve mother. It's easier to

believe mother and doubt me.

Botton line, there wasn't one person she and I mutually knew that she

didn't distort the truth with. Even my children and husband weren't

immune, but they told her they weren't interested in what she had to say

about me.

In retrospect, mother had already begun the distortion campaign before

the estrangement, and it naturally followed that it would continue with

a vengeance. It had to play itself out, with the chips falling where

they may. Fortunately she was near the end of her life, so she was

losing steam fast. No telling where things would have gone had she been

a mere ten years younger.

Living on the Moon wouldn't have insulated me from this.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. I'm merely trying to give a broad

perspective of the potential damage that can be wrought by insane

people, because they'll stop at nothing when their cages are rattled.

:-)

Carol

lord_zahgurim@... wrote:

> Carol, Nons,

>

> Thanks for your story. I have some friends (IRL) that have seperated

> from their parents, but their situations were very different from

> mine. It's good to get another, more similar perspective.

>

>

>

>>Welcome from Lurkdom, Z! Hope you stay around and post some more.

>>

>

>

> I will most likely post on occasion, but frankly this list is

> difficult to keep up with! I find it hard to even skim through the

> posts daily, let alone post with any regularity. But you can be

> assured that this won't be the last you'll hear from me.

>

> [snip!]

>

> I expected her to respond with at least some

>

>>concern. Nope! Her reaction was no reaction, other than to spend

>

> the

>

>>rest of her 4 years of life trying to get even behind my back with

>>everyone and anyone who would listen and believe her.

>

>

> Fortunately my nada lives about 200 miles away and really doesn't

> know many of the people that I have contact with. I also plan on

> moving across the country in the next year. So, as long as the rest

> of the family doesn't give out my contact info. (I don't think they

> would), she won't even know where I live.

>

>

> [snip!]

>

>>Over time, I came to realize the depth and extent of the distortion

>>campaigns she'd been waging against me, even " before " the

>

> estrangement.

>

> My nada paints me as the " perfect son " to most people, although it

> wouldn't surprise me if I were now the " bad guy. " It really doesn't

> matter to me either way, because there is so much polarity between

> the two. I could never be either things that she portrays me as

> (wholly " good " or " evil " - those are subjective terms anyway).

>

> [snip!]

>

>>Mother is six feet under now, but it's still not over. No, she

>

> can't

>

>>hurt me directly any more, but I'm still rewriting HerStory, which

>

> will

>

>>probably be an ongoing process for the rest of my life.

>

>

> Even if your mother didn't have BP, it's still a good practice

> to " revisit " certain scenarios from your past and redefine and

> interpret them. In my opinion, of course.

>

> [snip!]

>

>>The simple truth is, there's no living with a BPD mother, but

>

> there's

>

>>life after the termination of the relationship. Backlashes are

>>inevitable and difficult, but it was also wonderful not having them

>>around anymore. With the relationship, it was all crap. Without

>

> the

>

>>relationship, there was " different " crap mixed in with the well

>

> being

>

>>that came from not having her in my life anymore. Does that make

>

> sense?

>

> That makes perfect sense I totally agree with you. I know there

> are others that choose to endure the BP behavior to some extent in

> order to keep the person in their life... But I just can't. It's too

> stressful, too painful for me to continue it. Even with therapy. I

> was able to create my own boundaries, confront my codependency, etc.;

> but her behavior was still there, and it was taking a toll on me

> emotionally. I couldn't keep up friendships or remain social because

> of the emotional ringer I was going through.

>

> Now that I'm semi-free of her (it's only been a few months), I feel

> relieved for not having that stress around all the time, yet it makes

> me sad that it came to this. I pity her, that she can't live a normal

> life without strife and inner turmoil.

>

> But I feel free to resume my life again, and that's really what

> matters.

>

> Cheers (and hang in there, yourself!),