Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Good point. I read once that becasue bpd's are often abused as children that their emotional growth is stunted at a young age. That makes me sad. I sometimes picture my mom as the abused child. I used to do this a whole lot and it helped me to be sympathetic to her plight. I am always stuck between the abused child that I know she was and who she is today. I wish I could go back in time and help her as a child but it's tough thinking this way about your mother. > > Something that someone metioned to me once was about being careful > > not to give a nada (or BP) intermittent reinforcement. (I don't > > think I'm saying that right..but something like that.) Like if a > > nada calls you 3 times and then you answer, she'll know that the > > next time, she may have to call 3 times or more, but she'll be more > > likely to keep trying because " the next time " could be the one > > that " wins " whatever the goal is. (think slot machine logic) If > > her goal is to get a response out of you, and she's sent a certain > > amount of gifts,any acknowledgement of that is kind of like > > a " reward " for sending them. So if it's something that you'd > > rather she not do, then you wouldn't want to encourage it > > by " rewarding " her. > > Yu know, just as a side note, this is the same logic that I use with > my 3 year old. If I want him to stop a behavior, I do not reward it > with my attention. If I want him to stop a behavior, I stop it EVERY > time he does it, or else he will keep pushing the limits to where he > thinks he has to to get away with it. I read an article that likened > it to gambling also. > > Those nadas are nothing but emotional 3-year olds anyway! > > Trish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 << Yu know, just as a side note, this is the same logic that I use with my 3 year old. If I want him to stop a behavior, I do not reward it with my attention. >> That is what my mother did when I was 3. Unfortunately, the behaviors she wanted to stop seemed to include everything I tried to do. She also couldn't accept my doing nothing. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 > I sometimes picture my mom as the abused child. > I used to do this a whole lot and it helped me to be sympathetic to > her plight. I am always stuck between the abused child that I know > she was and who she is today. I wish I could go back in time and > help her as a child but it's tough thinking this way about your > mother. I feel that way too. Actually, I can feel sympathy for my mother. She has really tried to do the best she could. When she does harm, she is unable to see it. She really believs it is for my own good. It is the only thing she ever knew. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Holly wrote: " ... I read once that becasue bpd's are often abused as children that their emotional growth is stunted at a young age. That makes me sad. I sometimes picture my mom as the abused child. I used to do this a whole lot and it helped me to be sympathetic to her plight. I am always stuck between the abused child that I know she was and who she is today. I wish I could go back in time and help her as a child but it's tough thinking this way about your mother. And Dan wrote: > I feel that way too. Actually, I can feel sympathy for my mother. > She has really tried to do the best she could. When she does harm, > she is unable to see it. She really believs it is for my own good. > It is the only thing she ever knew. You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with their stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with a grain of salt. It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy-nilly (see 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their mood of the moment (see SWOE, p 56). We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and the KOs on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM diagnosis or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like there is today. You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see the suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To join that list go to: http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Right on Edith, My mother has 6 siblings and I was raised by her father, my mother tells everyone that her father beat her, she says that he beat all his kids and it is not true. She never has heard a word of anyone's real problems because she wave's this fake abuse flag in everyone's face. Vicki> > > You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with their > stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with a > grain of salt. > > It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive > background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy-nilly (see > 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their mood of > the moment (see SWOE, p 56). > > We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and the KOs > on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM diagnosis > or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like there is > today. > > You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see the > suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To join > that list go to: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs > > - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2003 Report Share Posted August 17, 2003 Oh wow! That is also interesting. My mother always seemed to feel sorry for herself and didn't get along with her sister. she said her sister always got her in trouble. She told us when her dad died when she was 12, that grandma remarried and her new husband didn't want kids so she had to live with her brothers. Yet this still doesn't fit the image I have of my grandma - of just pretty much abandoning her daughter. But I have always believed it to be true. And then we had the story of how she had to marry my dad when she was 17 because my uncle wouldn't let her live with him if she turned down dad's proposal.. so she had nowhere to go. Not quite a romantic fairy tale. Just last week I was telling someone some of her stories and then stopped midway and thought (for the FIRST time) that it was really only her word that let me know that. I didn't ever question it before. I don't remember how old I was (teem or preteen) when she added the story about how for the first several years she was married she hated sex and she just hung onto the headboard and with cried during it. Not really an image of either her or my father that I really wanted to have painted repeatedly. But we were supposed to feel sorry for her for that I know. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I never questioned her stories though.. I always thought they were true. Free > Right on Edith, > My mother has 6 siblings and I was raised by her father, my mother > tells everyone that her father beat her, she says that he beat all > his kids and it is not true. She never has heard a word of anyone's > real problems because she wave's this fake abuse flag in everyone's > face. > Vicki> > > > > You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with their > > stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with a > > grain of salt. > > > > It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive > > background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy-nilly > (see > > 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their > mood of > > the moment (see SWOE, p 56). > > > > We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and the > KOs > > on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM > diagnosis > > or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like > there is > > today. > > > > You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see the > > suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To > join > > that list go to: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs > > > > - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 It was my understanding that BPD is generally caused by childhood trauma. Is that not the case? From what I understand BPD is caused by severe trauma during childhood where the person does not resolve it or attempt to get help as an adult. However, I will admit that there have been quite a few times in the last few years when I have questioned if some of mom's stories of abuse are as true as what she says ONLY because she exaggerates everyting so much now that I tend to wonder if she didn't exaggerate it then too. She was raised by her grandparents. The same people that raised her mom and her her mom's 5 siblings and none of them felt that they were abusive...they did say they were not the most loving people in the world but not anything like what my mom says. THey were very poor however and my mom is a total queen. She loves to talk about the " lower class " and she talks nonstop about the dirt road she lived off of as a child and how awful it was to be poor. My father and her grew up together and knew each other their whole lives and he says he knew her family and was appalled at stories of abuse that she would tell and did not believe most of it. I don't know really anymore. I guess it does matter. It is hard because she is kind of like the little boy that cried wolf. Because she tends to exaggerate things now and make up lies about problems that don't exist and create drama, I have to wonder if she didn't make up all that other crap too. > > I feel that way too. Actually, I can feel sympathy for my mother. > > She has really tried to do the best she could. When she does harm, > > she is unable to see it. She really believs it is for my own good. > > It is the only thing she ever knew. > > > You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with their > stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with a > grain of salt. > > It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive > background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy-nilly (see > 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their mood of > the moment (see SWOE, p 56). > > We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and the KOs > on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM diagnosis > or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like there is > today. > > You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see the > suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To join > that list go to: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs > > - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 It was my understanding that BPD is generally caused by childhood trauma. Is that not the case? From what I understand BPD is caused by severe trauma during childhood where the person does not resolve it or attempt to get help as an adult. However, I will admit that there have been quite a few times in the last few years when I have questioned if some of mom's stories of abuse are as true as what she says ONLY because she exaggerates everyting so much now that I tend to wonder if she didn't exaggerate it then too. She was raised by her grandparents. The same people that raised her mom and her her mom's 5 siblings and none of them felt that they were abusive...they did say they were not the most loving people in the world but not anything like what my mom says. THey were very poor however and my mom is a total queen. She loves to talk about the " lower class " and she talks nonstop about the dirt road she lived off of as a child and how awful it was to be poor. My father and her grew up together and knew each other their whole lives and he says he knew her family and was appalled at stories of abuse that she would tell and did not believe most of it. I don't know really anymore. I guess it does matter. It is hard because she is kind of like the little boy that cried wolf. Because she tends to exaggerate things now and make up lies about problems that don't exist and create drama, I have to wonder if she didn't make up all that other crap too. > > I feel that way too. Actually, I can feel sympathy for my mother. > > She has really tried to do the best she could. When she does harm, > > she is unable to see it. She really believs it is for my own good. > > It is the only thing she ever knew. > > > You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with their > stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with a > grain of salt. > > It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive > background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy-nilly (see > 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their mood of > the moment (see SWOE, p 56). > > We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and the KOs > on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM diagnosis > or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like there is > today. > > You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see the > suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To join > that list go to: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs > > - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 Edith, I am sure that my mother really had a terrible childhood. She had three sisters and they were all very unhappy too. One committed suicide when she was a mother of young children. One was completely non-functional with bipolar disorder, despite heavy medication. The youngest sister seems more normal in a flighty sort of way. My mother, the oldest, always put forth the image of being perfect. At any given time she would admit that she had felt tortured in the past (up to and including the previous time I saw her) but now she had completely vanquished all that. Her mother was so narcissistic, she wasn't even aware of the girls' suffering, and the girls were way too terrified to have external behavior problems. I was too. I am not taking issue with you at all, that these stories could be completely made-up and self-serving for some BPDs. The confirmation of the story by all the siblings is what makes it believable. - Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 My sister-in-law told me of how abusive their father was. That he beat her and an older brother. My husband and his younger brother have no memory of this. They did however see dad attack mom once. They remember dad as loving and giving. My husband is 5 years younger than sis and 7 years younger than brother. I think he was too young to recognize what was going on in the house. They were divorced when he was 5. I believe my sister-in-law, she and her older brother are really psychologically damaged. He is incapacitated bipolar and God knows what else and she is seeming NPD maybe BPD. I don't see her that much. It's funny because my aunt who is 10 years younger than nada found the trauma discussion in UBM very hard to swallow. There''s no question that nada is a queen but my aunt remembers who father as a saint. the most wonderful generous man ever and grandma as non abusive. Grandma practically raised me and I have wonderful memories of her. She's the reason I'm as functional as I am. So what really happened to mom to make her borderline. I have no idea. However I am watching sil's daughter my niece turn into a NPD and possibly BPD. She has never suffered any overt abuse or neglect in her life. She has been treated like royalty since birth. She is completly psychologically dependent on her mom. She lives home age 24. stayed home for college, has never travelled or had a boyfriend past a few dates. she has medical problems, minor ones and is always sick or is a hypochondriac. But i have never seen abuse. It's interesting that she has never established her independence. ANy body have thoughts on personality disorder in the absence of trauma or abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2003 Report Share Posted August 18, 2003 UGH....cringe....the sex story of her hanging on the headboard is too much....what a drama queen and JUST like my mom. What is it with the sex stories??? I have to say that I feel like telling your children things like this is a form of sexual abuse in a way, you know?? I mean seriously what kid wants to think or picture their parents having sex? Sorry not me! Why the need to talk to your kids about it? My mom did the same thing all about how much she despised having sex with my dad. Well you know what?? Another reason to say I don't blame him for getting out of that marriage. Same with your mom...I mean really who the hell wants to have sex with a person who is hanging onto the headboard and crying...PUHLEEEEEZE....my mom said she did just about the same thing and then she just refused to have it for the last several years. That is in the deposition which my mother forced me to read and commit to memory. I was 14 and mom took me with her to every appt with her lawyer. The 2 of them would sit there and discuss how they were going to destroy dad's life. I went with her to every court proceeding. I had to be her shoulder to cry on. I had to support her. She asked our neighbor to come to be the witness to the deposition that was humiliating b/c now all our neighbors knew our business. Looking back on it how messed up was it that I read every legal document, every deposition etc. in that divorce? In what way could that be construed ever as the right thing to do to your child???? Telling me stories about how he supposedly forced her to have sex with him?? I swear...she thinks still that she has done nothing wrong in our relationship...sorry but the sex stories brought up a whole different issue I have with my mom. She was obsessed with that and then when I got to be 15 or so obsessed with me having sex with anyone..she assumed of course I was having sex with everyone when in fact I wasn't even kissing anyone! She would rummage through my room on a regular basis looking for evidence. I had to start packing my trash in my bookbag and throwing it away at school. My journal was a joke...she would read it regularly. I am 31 and when I was at home last time I actually found an old diary of mine from when I was 16 that she had in her file drawer. She still is keeping it probably to use against me some day. > > Right on Edith, > > My mother has 6 siblings and I was raised by her father, my mother > > tells everyone that her father beat her, she says that he beat all > > his kids and it is not true. She never has heard a word of > anyone's > > real problems because she wave's this fake abuse flag in everyone's > > face. > > Vicki> > > > > > > You both mentioned the sympathy that your mothers evoked with > their > > > stories of abuse but you might want to swallow those stories with > a > > > grain of salt. > > > > > > It is now known that lots of BPs did *not* come from an abusive > > > background. BPs have been known to re-write history willy- nilly > > (see > > > 'rationalization' in SWOE, p 57) and tell stories to match their > > mood of > > > the moment (see SWOE, p 56). > > > > > > We KOs had *fake* mothers. We were the ones who were abused and > the > > KOs > > > on this list are the 'sandwich' generation. There was no DSM > > diagnosis > > > or treatment for BPD when we and our mothers were younger like > > there is > > > today. > > > > > > You guys might want to lurk on the WTOparentsOfBPs list and see > the > > > suffering that the *real* mothers of BPs on that list endure. To > > join > > > that list go to: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/WTOparentsOfBPs > > > > > > - Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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