trying not to panic

[Guest guest]

I didn't know what else to do so I thought I would post here, even

though I don't think anyone will relate to this particular

situation. I have been caring for my 14 yo sister thru foster care

since 2/03. I was told that at the end of January there would

probably be a decision that she will not go back to my mom but stay

with me in foster care. But today I was told by a different worker

that because my mom is " disabled " (this would be due to BPD and PTSD,

apparently) she is actually probably going to get EXTRA time. This

from people who indirectly told me in September there was little

chance my sister would go back to my mom. So after hearing today

that she'll get extra time, I'm starting to panic. They have made it

impossible for me to continue a relationship with my mom (forbidding

any contact at all), so now if my sister goes back she is going to be

COMPLETELY isolated with my mom. I have put my life aside for 10

years to keep this from happening. My mom always has to have someone

to focus on, and it will be my sister, and I have done everything

possible to keep that from happening. And now I have no control

whatsoever, and they could send her back and she will not be

protected. I don't know what to do. There is nothing I can do. I

have parented this child since she was adopted (yes, DHS actually

gave a child to my mom... she fooled them good). My mom has NEVER

done it on her own and she CAN'T. She might be able to FAKE it, but

she can't really do it. I'm so scared for my sister and I can't

believe they would even consider sending her back, when they can end

it in a month.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I found this resource.

Hope it helps.

Sincerely,

http://www.bpdresources.com/divorcecustody.html

(it is of course the custody side of things that I wondered if might

be helpful)

If you stop at bpdresources.com you may find more such as:

http://www.bpdresources.com/commitment.html

http://www.bpdresources.com/commitment.html#involuntary

but I don't know if things are at that point...

[Guest guest]

How does your sister feel about going back or since she hasn't lived with

your mother is it possible she does not know what she is getting into? Is she

old enough in your state to have any say about this?

In a message dated 12/30/2003 8:51:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,

scoutbonon@... writes:

> And now I have no control

> whatsoever, and they could send her back and she will not be

> protected. I don't know what to do. There is nothing I can do. I

> have parented this child since she was adopted (yes, DHS actually

> gave a child to my mom... she fooled them good). My mom has NEVER

> done it on her own and she CAN'T. She might be able to FAKE it, but

> she can't really do it. I'm so scared for my sister and I can't

> believe they would even consider sending her back, when they can end

> it in a month.

>

[Guest guest]

> How does your sister feel about going back or since she hasn't

lived with

> your mother is it possible she does not know what she is getting

into? Is she

> old enough in your state to have any say about this?

>

She has said she wants to stay with me. I don't think there is an

age in my state where they listen more or less to what a child wants,

as they assume that the child might be prejudiced by whoever they are

currently living with. But she has told me, her lawyer, at least one

of the social workers all that she wants to stay with me. Her wish

is to be with me during the week and my mom on weekends. She doesn't

understand this isn't a custody battle, and that with DHS it's all or

nothing. So I don't know... I am trying to get myself relaxed on

this but it just worries me SO much.

[Guest guest]

>Hey Scout,

I can't really relate because I've never been in your situation, but

I have some thoughts that may or may not be helpful. Several years

ago, my husband tried to adopt my daughter from a previous marriage.

I went as far as to hire a separate attorney for her until a guardian

ad litem could be appointed for her by the court. She wanted to be

adopted, but of course, her biological father, who is mentally ill,

wouldn't cooperate. He thought we had brainwashed her. In all

honesty, if all legal options have been exhausted, there are

organizations out there that will help you hide your sister if all

else fails. It is not a pleasant option because you may have to go

as far as to change your identity and hers as well as move somewhere

else, but in my opinion, it's worth it to save a child. Just a

thought, albeit extreme, but when you are dealing with a BP, is there

any such thing as being too extreme to protect ourselves and those

who could be victimized? I don't think so, but then, again, that's

just my opinion. Hope this helps! Good luck and keep posting to let

us know how things are going.

Love and Blessings,

Tammy

I didn't know what else to do so I thought I would post here, even

> though I don't think anyone will relate to this particular

> situation. I have been caring for my 14 yo sister thru foster care

> since 2/03. I was told that at the end of January there would

> probably be a decision that she will not go back to my mom but stay

> with me in foster care. But today I was told by a different worker

> that because my mom is " disabled " (this would be due to BPD and

PTSD,

> apparently) she is actually probably going to get EXTRA time. This

> from people who indirectly told me in September there was little

> chance my sister would go back to my mom. So after hearing today

> that she'll get extra time, I'm starting to panic. They have made

it

> impossible for me to continue a relationship with my mom

(forbidding

> any contact at all), so now if my sister goes back she is going to

be

> COMPLETELY isolated with my mom. I have put my life aside for 10

> years to keep this from happening. My mom always has to have

someone

> to focus on, and it will be my sister, and I have done everything

> possible to keep that from happening. And now I have no control

> whatsoever, and they could send her back and she will not be

> protected. I don't know what to do. There is nothing I can do. I

> have parented this child since she was adopted (yes, DHS actually

> gave a child to my mom... she fooled them good). My mom has NEVER

> done it on her own and she CAN'T. She might be able to FAKE it,

but

> she can't really do it. I'm so scared for my sister and I can't

> believe they would even consider sending her back, when they can

end

> it in a month.

[Guest guest]

> In all

> honesty, if all legal options have been exhausted, there are

> organizations out there that will help you hide your sister if all

> else fails. It is not a pleasant option because you may have to go

> as far as to change your identity and hers as well as move

somewhere

> else, but in my opinion, it's worth it to save a child. Just a

> thought, albeit extreme, but when you are dealing with a BP, is

there

> any such thing as being too extreme to protect ourselves and those

> who could be victimized? I don't think so, but then, again, that's

> just my opinion.

I do understand why some people choose to do this, but I suppose as a

consequence of having my mom (always going against authority,

convincing herself she was right, convincing OTHERS she was right), I

have turned out to be a very compliant person. I can't sit there and

tell social workers and lawyers that they are wrong and I am right, I

just can't do that. If they think it's best for my sister to go

back, I would do whatever I can to prevent that but I can't stop it.

That said, in the time I might have left with her, does ANYONE have

any suggestions about how to start to 'teach' her about boundaries,

borderline personality, etc? I have always taken the brunt of my

mom's issues and tried to protect my sister from that, so she hasn't

experienced a lot of it. She definitely isn't unscathed, but she's

also not prepared for what she would face.

Any ideas? I guess this might be a good question for people who are

co-parenting. BUt in my case I will have a decision to make if my

sister goes back--- really try to work on my own life, which would

mean I would pretty much lose her completely, but be there for her in

4 years when she is an adult; or do what I've been doing and say

what I need to say and whatever necessary to try to deflect as much

of my mom's attention off my sister as possible. I don't know how

much energy I have to do the latter, I really don't. Especially if

after all this they send her back to my mom. So it's a possibility

that my sister will then be isolated with my mom and I want to do

whatever I can to prepare her for that. She is 14 but probably is at

a 11-12 year old level in terms of what she might understand, on kid

terms.

Specifically, what advice or information do YOU wish YOU had had when

you were a child that might have helped you? Anything that might

have made it a bit easier? Or understandable?

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

First - you might want to start asking questions. A different case

worker told you your mother MIGHT get your sister. How can you check

out what the facts are?

Ask what the people who are making that decision KNOW about BPD. If

their knowledge is limited - see if you can educate THEM somewhat. If

your sister HAS to go back - you might want to see what kinds of

safeguards the AGENCY may be willing to put in place. Possibly

ordered counseling for your sister with a therapist familiar with KO

issues. Possibly visitation with you.

Are you saying the agency removed your sister from your mother,

placed her in your care, and ordered you not to have contact with

your mother... and the same agency is now going to plunk your sister

back in your mother's care and bar YOU from seeing her? Question that.

Are they making that decision based on the fact that your mother's

behavior is a disability (and therefore she is not responsible for

her behavior)?

If they are going to place your sister with your mother - what time

frame do you have to contest it, see what safeguards can be placed,

and prepare your sister?

One thing you have been able to do is to give your sister a firm

foundation of loving support that many KOs do not get. That, in

itself, makes a difference.

Free

> That said, in the time I might have left with her, does ANYONE have

> any suggestions about how to start to 'teach' her about boundaries,

> borderline personality, etc? I have always taken the brunt of my

> mom's issues and tried to protect my sister from that, so she

hasn't

> experienced a lot of it. She definitely isn't unscathed, but she's

> also not prepared for what she would face.

>

> Any ideas? I guess this might be a good question for people who

are

> co-parenting. BUt in my case I will have a decision to make if my

> sister goes back--- really try to work on my own life, which would

> mean I would pretty much lose her completely, but be there for her

in

> 4 years when she is an adult; or do what I've been doing and say

> what I need to say and whatever necessary to try to deflect as much

> of my mom's attention off my sister as possible. I don't know how

> much energy I have to do the latter, I really don't. Especially if

> after all this they send her back to my mom. So it's a possibility

> that my sister will then be isolated with my mom and I want to do

> whatever I can to prepare her for that. She is 14 but probably is

at

> a 11-12 year old level in terms of what she might understand, on

kid

> terms.

>

> Specifically, what advice or information do YOU wish YOU had had

when

> you were a child that might have helped you? Anything that might

> have made it a bit easier? Or understandable?

>

> Thanks!

[Guest guest]

" I do understand why some people choose to do this, but I suppose as a

consequence of having my mom (always going against authority,

convincing herself she was right, convincing OTHERS she was right), I

have turned out to be a very compliant person. I can't sit there and

tell social workers and lawyers that they are wrong and I am right, I

just can't do that. If they think it's best for my sister to go

back, I would do whatever I can to prevent that but I can't stop it. "

I don't necessarily disagree with unilaterally removing a minor from a

potentially abusive situation, but to be fair there are potentially serious

negative aspects of doing so. It would likely be extremely stressful for

your sis to suddenly lose all her friends & family, her familiar home,

school and neighbourhood; problems might arise with the need to teach her to

lie about her background and not be relaxed & open with people; she might be

subjected to the experience of being scared & alone in a police station in a

strange town if you're caught & taken into custody...and in the end, she

might hate you for depriving her of what (she imagines) would have been her

life, since she doesn't fully understand the need for protection from nada.

But if the legal system forces her return to nada, that doesn't diminish the

wonderful thing you've done for your sister - you've shown her how a loving

mother behaves. I think that in itself is protective as she'll be more

likely to question bizarre/nasty-nada behaviour than a child who, like many

of us, never experienced a caring and attentive guardian.

" Specifically, what advice or information do YOU wish YOU had had when

you were a child that might have helped you? Anything that might

have made it a bit easier? Or understandable? "

In my case, a number of people tried to help me to understand that nada was

a fruitcake at various times. But it didn't help, as nada had already

convinced me that other people were not to be trusted and that I could rely

only on nada...and I was so brainwashed that I felt guilty for even

listening to anything negative about nada.

:-) I'm probably just slower than most, but I was in my mid-40's before I

dared to think " my mother is a loon - a really, really mean loon " .

I have no experience in dealing with your type of situation, but my instinct

would be to focus on letting your sister know how much you love her, what an

amazing individual she is, and that you're just a phone call away if she's

feeling confused or upset & needs to talk about anything.

And from my perspective, I agree with getting on with *your* life. The

process of realizing that nada was a nada, learning about BPD and learning

to separate from nada would be so much easier if I could go through it with

the support of my sister - you can still do that for your sister, and I

think you're likely to be a better guide if you've already completed the

journey yourself.

F :-)

[Guest guest]

Edith here...

Hmmm, are srpoisel and scoutbonon who've been posting on this

list the same person??? See posts below. Both are no longer

members of this list.

- Edith

Manager / WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Email Support Groups

In reading through this thread, ***scoutbonon*** wrote:

> I didn't know what else to do so I thought I would post here,

even

> though I don't think anyone will relate to this particular

> situation. I have been caring for my 14 yo sister thru

foster care

> since 2/03. I was told that at the end of January there would

> probably be a decision that she will not go back to my mom but

<snip, snip>

> gave a child to my mom... she fooled them good). My mom has

NEVER

> done it on her own and she CAN'T. She might be able to FAKE

it, but

> she can't really do it. I'm so scared for my sister and I can't

> believe they would even consider sending her back, when they

can end

> it in a month.

And drs621@a... wrote:

>>How does your sister feel about going back or since she hasn't

>> lived with

>>your mother is it possible she does not know what she is getting

>> into? Is she

>>old enough in your state to have any say about this?

>>

And ***srpoisel*** wrote:

> She has said she wants to stay with me. I don't think there is an

> age in my state where they listen more or less to what a child wants,

> as they assume that the child might be prejudiced by whoever they are

> currently living with. But she has told me, her lawyer, at least one

> of the social workers all that she wants to stay with me. Her wish

> is to be with me during the week and my mom on weekends. She doesn't

> understand this isn't a custody battle, and that with DHS it's all or

> nothing. So I don't know... I am trying to get myself relaxed on

> this but it just worries me SO much.

--------

[Guest guest]

> Edith here...

>

> Hmmm, are srpoisel and scoutbonon who've been posting on this

> list the same person??? See posts below. Both are no longer

> members of this list.

>

> - Edith

> Manager / WelcomeToOz Family of NonBP Email Support Groups

What was the grounds for removing me? I unsubscribed myself after

accidentally posting from my personal email account. In the past I

had actually emailed a moderator to ask that a message I accidentally

sent from that account be deleted before being posted. So I am not

sure what the paranoid response is about. There was nothing

inappropriate in my messages to suggest I would be subscribed from

two accounts in order to cause problems on the list, or to elicit a

message being posted to the entire list that would suggest there was

something suspicious about accidentally posting from a personal email

account.

This is not supportive. This is paranoia. I would think there would

be a little more respect for list members than this, especially

members who have not ever posted anything inappropriate to cause

alarm or suspicion. People come here for support, not to be judged

over an innocent mistake. I came here for support. This is anti-

support. If perhaps I am overreacting, then might I suggest you did

the same by kicking me off the list and posting like it was some big

conspiracy.

I know this is going to be deleted and ignored, so as to preserve the

supposed supportive environment you feel you have on your list. But

might I suggest in the future you treat people with a little more

respect and privately ask for an explanation before assuming the

worst, kicking someone off the list, then posting about it to other

list members like there was a conspiracy. It's just a matter of

treating people with respect rather than letting your fleas rule.