Newbie: Borderline Mother

[Guest guest]

Hi. Earlier today, I ended up on a different borderline-related

list, and was recommened to try this one. After reading some posts,

yeah, unfortunately, this really, really seems to fit (makes me a

little uncomfortable, actually -- I always felt like I was beamed in

from another planet, but I never wanted to look at the violence or

chaos).

Anyway, until yesterday, really, I wasn't aware my mother has BPD.

She's always been bipolar (w/a good dose of OCD) and highly, highly

volatile (can't handle any type of stress, doesn't interact well

with others, rages, acts out, and is abusive, etc.). My therapist

suggested " Walking on Eggshells, " and I'm reading it while trying to

figure out how to cope more appropriately. Man, wouldn't that make

life easier?

My Situation:

I'm a youngish, 30-something professional who is currently semi-

employed (my, the economy is awful), getting divorced from a

physically/emotionally/sexually abusive spouse, and am currently

residing with my folks (its transitional until I can find steady

work -- that's my ever-constant mantra).

Advice?:

Lately, I'm learning all of my preconceptions about myself

are incorrect, and my idea of what constitues a relationship is shot

to hell. This is probably very good if, at times, a bit much.

Now, what I want to know is what advice can folks give? And, are

there other things or resources I should be looking at?

I'm trying to be proactive with this, so I can " deal " with my family

and get on to making healthier (informed) relationships of my own.

Thank you,

Betsey

[Guest guest]

Hi there! I am also 30 something with a BPD mom. I have had marriage

problems myself in the past and I have to say I indirectly owe my

BPD mother for the fact that I am still married. If it weren't for

her being such a raging bitch, I would have left my husband long

ago. However I can't afford to leave him. He isn't abusive though.

Just a pain in the ass ....so I can't really compare

myself..however if I had a remotely normal mother I would have left

him long ago and moved back in with mom. However i " d rather live

with an asshole than my mother who is 100 times worse. It is bad

enough dealing with this sort of person when you are a zillion miles

away. If I were living with my mom I would be a hair short of a

nervous breakdown on a daily basis. That is what it was like when I

had to live with her. If you don't have kids, is there any way you

could share an apartment with 2 other people? Maybe get a temp job

just in the meantime to make ends meet? I know it's much easier to

get healthy when you have all the abusive people out of your

life...or at the very least your house! anyway, I can relate and

feel free to vent away!! I think you have the right idea by

educating yourself with the books etc. You are on the right track!

> Hi. Earlier today, I ended up on a different borderline-related

> list, and was recommened to try this one. After reading some

posts,

> yeah, unfortunately, this really, really seems to fit (makes me a

> little uncomfortable, actually -- I always felt like I was beamed

in

> from another planet, but I never wanted to look at the violence or

> chaos).

>

> Anyway, until yesterday, really, I wasn't aware my mother has BPD.

> She's always been bipolar (w/a good dose of OCD) and highly,

highly

> volatile (can't handle any type of stress, doesn't interact well

> with others, rages, acts out, and is abusive, etc.). My therapist

> suggested " Walking on Eggshells, " and I'm reading it while trying

to

> figure out how to cope more appropriately. Man, wouldn't that make

> life easier?

>

> My Situation:

> I'm a youngish, 30-something professional who is currently semi-

> employed (my, the economy is awful), getting divorced from a

> physically/emotionally/sexually abusive spouse, and am currently

> residing with my folks (its transitional until I can find steady

> work -- that's my ever-constant mantra).

>

> Advice?:

> Lately, I'm learning all of my preconceptions about myself

> are incorrect, and my idea of what constitues a relationship is

shot

> to hell. This is probably very good if, at times, a bit much.

>

> Now, what I want to know is what advice can folks give? And, are

> there other things or resources I should be looking at?

>

> I'm trying to be proactive with this, so I can " deal " with my

family

> and get on to making healthier (informed) relationships of my

own.

>

> Thank you,

> Betsey

[Guest guest]

Welcome to our website, you have come to the right place. The other book you

will hear about is Understanding the Borderline Mother (UBM). We have all

read it and it is an eye opener. I found it by accident my mom was diagnosed

bipolar and I was looking for a book about bipolar moms. when I read UBM the

lights went on in my head. then I found this list which has been so validating

and comforting for me. I hope you can find full time work soon. good luck

with that. It's hard being home and vulnerable now that you have discoverec BP.

Good luck to you and keep posting. I found that everybody's history was so

similar to mine that I wish I had known years ago. Better late than never.

[Guest guest]

Hi Betsey,

Glad to have you here. You're in the right place. I am 26, have a

mother who has BPD, and a family that seems more abnormal the more

time I spend away from them.

I had returned home to live with my family after I lost my job. I

wanted to be " nutured " for a while after spending a year as a

domestic abuse advocate nurturing others. I also thought they would

be able to change if I modeled good behavior. Well, suffice it to say

they couldn't, and what's more, I wasn't far enough along in my

recovery to be able to " detach " from them. So I wound up living at a

shelter. I am trying not to speak with them very much, but it's hard

reconciling my lucid Nada with the Nada who is abusive. So sometimes

I talk to her. I'm working on boundaries regardless of what they

decide to do.

That's about all I can share, cause I'm still so new to this myself.

Good luck!

-sraddha

> Hi. Earlier today, I ended up on a different borderline-related

> list, and was recommened to try this one. After reading some posts,

> yeah, unfortunately, this really, really seems to fit (makes me a

> little uncomfortable, actually -- I always felt like I was beamed

in

> from another planet, but I never wanted to look at the violence or

> chaos).

>

> Anyway, until yesterday, really, I wasn't aware my mother has BPD.

> She's always been bipolar (w/a good dose of OCD) and highly, highly

> volatile (can't handle any type of stress, doesn't interact well

> with others, rages, acts out, and is abusive, etc.). My therapist

> suggested " Walking on Eggshells, " and I'm reading it while trying

to

> figure out how to cope more appropriately. Man, wouldn't that make

> life easier?

>

> My Situation:

> I'm a youngish, 30-something professional who is currently semi-

> employed (my, the economy is awful), getting divorced from a

> physically/emotionally/sexually abusive spouse, and am currently

> residing with my folks (its transitional until I can find steady

> work -- that's my ever-constant mantra).

>

> Advice?:

> Lately, I'm learning all of my preconceptions about myself

> are incorrect, and my idea of what constitues a relationship is

shot

> to hell. This is probably very good if, at times, a bit much.

>

> Now, what I want to know is what advice can folks give? And, are

> there other things or resources I should be looking at?

>

> I'm trying to be proactive with this, so I can " deal " with my

family

> and get on to making healthier (informed) relationships of my

own.

>

> Thank you,

> Betsey

[Guest guest]

I wasn't far enough along in my

recovery to be able to " detach " from them

This is well said. IT is exactly why I am deathly afraid to send a

thank you note to my mom for those gifts or have any contact with

her. I am getting better I think emotionally recovering little by

little but I still do not think I am at a point where I can detach

when the verbal abuse starts back up. Someone on here pointed out

to me however that there may not ever be a point where one can be

detached enough to tolerate verbal abuse and maybe there shouldn't

be. I think that was a good point too. I keep saying that i need

to reach the point where her calling me a hor/slut/trash/failure

doens't bother me.....what kind of person would I have to become for

that to not bother me...probably not the person I want to be. So now

I am asking myself lately..do I want to reach a point where those

things don't bother me?? Do I want to have to get to that point??

NO, not really.

> > Hi. Earlier today, I ended up on a different borderline-related

> > list, and was recommened to try this one. After reading some

posts,

> > yeah, unfortunately, this really, really seems to fit (makes me

a

> > little uncomfortable, actually -- I always felt like I was

beamed

> in

> > from another planet, but I never wanted to look at the violence

or

> > chaos).

> >

> > Anyway, until yesterday, really, I wasn't aware my mother has

BPD.

> > She's always been bipolar (w/a good dose of OCD) and highly,

highly

> > volatile (can't handle any type of stress, doesn't interact well

> > with others, rages, acts out, and is abusive, etc.). My

therapist

> > suggested " Walking on Eggshells, " and I'm reading it while

trying

> to

> > figure out how to cope more appropriately. Man, wouldn't that

make

> > life easier?

> >

> > My Situation:

> > I'm a youngish, 30-something professional who is currently semi-

> > employed (my, the economy is awful), getting divorced from a

> > physically/emotionally/sexually abusive spouse, and am currently

> > residing with my folks (its transitional until I can find steady

> > work -- that's my ever-constant mantra).

> >

> > Advice?:

> > Lately, I'm learning all of my preconceptions about myself

> > are incorrect, and my idea of what constitues a relationship is

> shot

> > to hell. This is probably very good if, at times, a bit much.

> >

> > Now, what I want to know is what advice can folks give? And, are

> > there other things or resources I should be looking at?

> >

> > I'm trying to be proactive with this, so I can " deal " with my

> family

> > and get on to making healthier (informed) relationships of my

> own.

> >

> > Thank you,

> > Betsey

[Guest guest]

> >I wasn't far enough along in my

> >recovery to be able to " detach " from them

>

> This is well said. IT is exactly why I am deathly afraid to send a

> thank you note to my mom for those gifts or have any contact with

> her.

Something that someone metioned to me once was about being careful

not to give a nada (or BP) intermittent reinforcement. (I don't think

I'm saying that right..but something like that.) Like if a nada

calls you 3 times and then you answer, she'll know that the next

time, she may have to call 3 times or more, but she'll be more likely

to keep trying because " the next time " could be the one that " wins "

whatever the goal is. (think slot machine logic) If her goal is to

get a response out of you, and she's sent a certain amount of gifts,

any acknowledgement of that is kind of like a " reward " for sending

them. So if it's something that you'd rather she not do, then you

wouldn't want to encourage it by " rewarding " her. If your nada's

like mine (haha, which they all are pretty similar otherwise they

wouldn't be nadas, right?) she'll eventually try another tactic to

get whatever it is she's wanting from you. I just wanted to mention

that, someone mentioned it to me and it was helpful to me. I know

how mine is too, she'd take any little thing as " I love you mommy,

please come back and run my life for me OK? " ha ha Good luck with

whatever you decide to do! (hope this made some sense!)

> I am getting better I think emotionally recovering little by

> little but I still do not think I am at a point where I can detach

> when the verbal abuse starts back up. Someone on here pointed out

> to me however that there may not ever be a point where one can be

> detached enough to tolerate verbal abuse and maybe there shouldn't

> be. I think that was a good point too. I keep saying that i need

> to reach the point where her calling me a hor/slut/trash/failure

> doens't bother me.....what kind of person would I have to become

> for that to not bother me...probably not the person I want to be.

> So now I am asking myself lately..do I want to reach a point where

> those things don't bother me?? Do I want to have to get to that

> point?? NO, not really.

You'd be " detached " to say the least, if that stuff didn't bother

you. I would like to get to the point where I could talk to her if

I wanted, but be sure that I won't get " hoovered " back into her stuff

again. Right now, there's still a doubt in my mind that I'd be able

to do that, so..no nada for me now, thanks. Even if I do get to that

point, I don't see getting to a point where I'd allow her to mistreat

me. Really, I don't feel like there's any reason to allow anyone to

mistreat me. I'm still learning how to stick up for myself, without

being mean to someone else. Maybe, when that is easier for me to do,

I can start to *think* about being in contact with her. No big hurry

here though!

[Guest guest]

Slot machine logic... another excellent analogy. I have decided that

I am going to get a notebook and start taking notes. I have learned

so much from this list. I wish I could meet all of you in person

and thank each of you. I joined this list just a few weeks ago in

desperation after a phonecall sent me into a terrible depression. I

thought I was going crazy and couldn't figure out what way was up.

I really needed someone to point me in the right direction. The

feedback I am getting is as helpful as any therapy I've ever been to

(if not more to be perfectly honest and a lot less expensive..lol)

Slot machine logic is what is going on in my life. EXACTLY. I try

to set a boundary but if they try a few times I give up. I can't do

that. I want to send a clear and powerful message for the first

time in 31 years. I got caller ID and nana tried to call me 3 times

yesterday. I was wondering how many times do I let her try before I

pick up? Why am I thinking like that? That is me getting ready to

do the intermittent reinforcement you talked about that makes them

think what they are doing to me is ok. Thanks for your insight.

Exactly what i needed to hear today.

> > >I wasn't far enough along in my

> > >recovery to be able to " detach " from them

> >

> > This is well said. IT is exactly why I am deathly afraid to

send a

> > thank you note to my mom for those gifts or have any contact

with

> > her.

>

> Something that someone metioned to me once was about being careful

> not to give a nada (or BP) intermittent reinforcement. (I don't

think

> I'm saying that right..but something like that.) Like if a nada

> calls you 3 times and then you answer, she'll know that the next

> time, she may have to call 3 times or more, but she'll be more

likely

> to keep trying because " the next time " could be the one

that " wins "

> whatever the goal is. (think slot machine logic) If her goal is

to

> get a response out of you, and she's sent a certain amount of

gifts,

> any acknowledgement of that is kind of like a " reward " for sending

> them. So if it's something that you'd rather she not do, then you

> wouldn't want to encourage it by " rewarding " her. If your nada's

> like mine (haha, which they all are pretty similar otherwise they

> wouldn't be nadas, right?) she'll eventually try another tactic to

> get whatever it is she's wanting from you. I just wanted to

mention

> that, someone mentioned it to me and it was helpful to me. I know

> how mine is too, she'd take any little thing as " I love you mommy,

> please come back and run my life for me OK? " ha ha Good luck

with

> whatever you decide to do! (hope this made some sense!)

>

> > I am getting better I think emotionally recovering little by

> > little but I still do not think I am at a point where I can

detach

> > when the verbal abuse starts back up. Someone on here pointed

out

> > to me however that there may not ever be a point where one can

be

> > detached enough to tolerate verbal abuse and maybe there

shouldn't

> > be. I think that was a good point too. I keep saying that i

need

> > to reach the point where her calling me a hor/slut/trash/failure

> > doens't bother me.....what kind of person would I have to become

> > for that to not bother me...probably not the person I want to

be.

> > So now I am asking myself lately..do I want to reach a point

where

> > those things don't bother me?? Do I want to have to get to that

> > point?? NO, not really.

>

> You'd be " detached " to say the least, if that stuff didn't bother

> you. I would like to get to the point where I could talk to her

if

> I wanted, but be sure that I won't get " hoovered " back into her

stuff

> again. Right now, there's still a doubt in my mind that I'd be

able

> to do that, so..no nada for me now, thanks. Even if I do get to

that

> point, I don't see getting to a point where I'd allow her to

mistreat

> me. Really, I don't feel like there's any reason to allow anyone

to

> mistreat me. I'm still learning how to stick up for myself,

without

> being mean to someone else. Maybe, when that is easier for me to

do,

> I can start to *think* about being in contact with her. No big

hurry

> here though!

[Guest guest]

Hi. Thanks to everyone for saying, " Hi and Welcome. "

Regarding " the lightbulb moment " below, yes, I can't believe how

cathartic it is realizing Nada has BPD. The more I read SWOE (I have

my cheat sheet with me), the lighter I feel. Literally.

Ironically, it's probably the best I've felt in years. So much more

hope for change in MY life. This said, I still gotta not let her

get to me (I'm better at this than I was, but I gotta become bullet

proof or something . My Pop keeps telling me to just ignore her,

and it seems to work for him; however, it ain't always so easy (I

know, no duh, right?).

Regarding my living situation (in the house with the 'rents), I've

discussed this with my therapist, and it's not the best solution,

but it's an okay one for now (transitional, transitional). You see,

I was moving from MA to Florida with my ex when I walked out, and

we'd already sold my condo.

Ergo, I do have a nest egg, which my therapist (voice of sanity)

advocates not touching until I can buy something, or until I really

do have to leave (my sister is currently divorcing an abusive

husband, and she's preggers with 2 kids and nobody's sure how she's

gonna make it down in Jersey).

A mitigating factor is my Father is retired, and he's currently

home. Nada tends to behave MUCH better around him, and he usually

runs interference. If he weren't home as much as he is, I couldn't

survive here. Another mitigating factor is it's a big house. And,

yes, I know this situation sucks, but it's in a holding pattern, and

I have to stick around MA until I have my court date for the divorce.

Oh, and thanks for the " finding a job " karma. They are scarce as

hen's teeth in New England, but I'm doing my damndest, so thanks!

Okay, probably too much info, but I am trying to be thoughtful about

the decisions I'm making and not just curling into a ball and hoping

things get better.

Betsey

> As for your mom (nada) I know the feeling of the first discovery

of BPD. We all do. It's the lightbulb moment. When all of a

sudden everything makes sense.

[Guest guest]

Holly Rose wrote:

> ... I have decided that

> I am going to get a notebook and start taking notes. I have learned

> so much from this list.

Hi Holly,

I'm glad you found us. This having-a-BP-parent thing is complex and I

learned a lot along the way by note-taking. Plus, you can go into the

archives and read all the previous posts to this list. To do that go to:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/ModOasis

then <press> Messages on the left.

> I wish I could meet all of you in person

> and thank each of you.

I've met groups of KOs in Wisconsin, in Texas, and here in California.

They're some of the nicest ppl you'd ever want to meet.

> I joined this list just a few weeks ago in

> desperation after a phonecall sent me into a terrible depression. I

> thought I was going crazy and couldn't figure out what way was up.

> I really needed someone to point me in the right direction. The

> feedback I am getting is as helpful as any therapy I've ever been to

> (if not more to be perfectly honest and a lot less expensive..lol)

That's what we like to hear. Everyone here is both a teacher and a

learner. All the answers aren't in yet but we KOs help each other by

validating and extending support in our posts.

Hugs,

- Edith

[Guest guest]

We have a second phone number for nada. We have done this for all 23 years

of our marriage. Our real number is unlisted but all of our friends have it.

It's worked great so far. About the slot machine logic. that's the way

parents reinforce lousy behavior in thier kids. give in occassionally. It's

hard

to give up the familiar and you might want to examine your own need for drama.

and of course there's also the grief in realizing that there will never be a

real mother or grandma or whatever.

[Guest guest]

Why the second phone line? Why not caller ID? How does this work and

why? I am interested.

> We have a second phone number for nada. We have done this for all

23 years

> of our marriage. Our real number is unlisted but all of our

friends have it.

> It's worked great so far. About the slot machine logic. that's

the way

> parents reinforce lousy behavior in thier kids. give in

occassionally. It's hard

> to give up the familiar and you might want to examine your own

need for drama.

> and of course there's also the grief in realizing that there will

never be a

> real mother or grandma or whatever.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We got the second phone line that is listed so she couldn't bug us. She does

not have our unlisted number that everyone else on the planet uses. We

turned the ringer off on the listed number and we use it for the fax and

computer.

We check messages when we feel like it. For a long time I was traumatized

just by the sound of her voice. Of course when we started the second line

business there was no call waiting.