Re: MEN- Side effects from BPD Mother

[Guest guest]

sims,

I definitely have trust/intimacy issues that I'm trying to work through

coming from an emotionally incestuous family. It's the classic

engulfment/abandonment issue confusing love with pain.

The hallmark of BPD is unpredictability so we KOs learned very early on that

our mothers (and later on, other people) are untrustworthy. BPs are only

able to see their own needs and are oftentimes neglectful or abusive to

their children.

Here's a good article,

Bonding and Attachment in Maltreated Children: Consequences of Emotional

Neglect in Childhood - Bruce D. , M.D., Ph.D.

http://teacher.scholastic.com/professional/bruceperry/bonding.htm

One section that stood out,

" Caregiver: The caregiver's behaviors can also impair bonding. Critical,

rejecting, and interfering parents tend to have children that avoid

emotional intimacy. Abusive parents tend to have children who become

uncomfortable with intimacy, and withdraw. The child's mother may be

unresponsive to the child due to maternal depression, substance abuse,

overwhelming personal problems, or other factors that interfere with her

ability to be consistent and nurturing for the child. "

If only I had known when I was a kid about BPD instead of blaming myself all

these years. It's never too late, though.

Greg

MEN- Side effects from BPD Mother

> Hi,

> Ya I have been gone for a while. Still trying to sort this stuff all

> out. I did pick up UBM and im *still* reading it.

>

> Any men out there have any problems in terms of relationships with

> girlfriend/ or wife?

>

> Mostly in terms of : openess of feelings, and keeping things bottled

> in, inability to relax.

>

> just wondering...

> sims

>

>

>

>

>

>

> To get off the list, send a blank message to

ModOasis-unsubscribe . Send questions & amp; concerns to

ModOasis-owner . & quot;Stop Walking on Eggshells, & quot; a

primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For the

table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Greg, thanks for your posts. I find them very interessting and

helpful. lisa

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the article...any solutions on how to deal with this..or

do I have to go see a dr?

sims

> sims,

> I definitely have trust/intimacy issues that I'm trying to work

through

> coming from an emotionally incestuous family. It's the classic

> engulfment/abandonment issue confusing love with pain.

>

> The hallmark of BPD is unpredictability so we KOs learned very

early on that

> our mothers (and later on, other people) are untrustworthy. BPs

are only

> able to see their own needs and are oftentimes neglectful or

abusive to

> their children.

>

> Here's a good article,

> Bonding and Attachment in Maltreated Children: Consequences of

Emotional

> Neglect in Childhood - Bruce D. , M.D., Ph.D.

> http://teacher.scholastic.com/professional/bruceperry/bonding.htm

> One section that stood out,

> " Caregiver: The caregiver's behaviors can also impair bonding.

Critical,

> rejecting, and interfering parents tend to have children that avoid

> emotional intimacy. Abusive parents tend to have children who become

> uncomfortable with intimacy, and withdraw. The child's mother may be

> unresponsive to the child due to maternal depression, substance

abuse,

> overwhelming personal problems, or other factors that interfere

with her

> ability to be consistent and nurturing for the child. "

>

> If only I had known when I was a kid about BPD instead of blaming

myself all

> these years. It's never too late, though.

>

> Greg

>

> MEN- Side effects from BPD Mother

>

>

> > Hi,

> > Ya I have been gone for a while. Still trying to sort this stuff

all

> > out. I did pick up UBM and im *still* reading it.

> >

> > Any men out there have any problems in terms of relationships with

> > girlfriend/ or wife?

> >

> > Mostly in terms of : openess of feelings, and keeping things

bottled

> > in, inability to relax.

> >

> > just wondering...

> > sims

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > To get off the list, send a blank message to

> ModOasis-unsubscribe Send questions & amp; concerns

to

> ModOasis-owner & quot;Stop Walking on

Eggshells, & quot; a

> primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (888-357-

4355). For the

> table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

sims,

I wish I had the answer for that one. Intellectual insight I would assume

is the first step. I've been reading like crazy lately. If you're a

bookworm like me just search around Amazon and read the book reviews.

There's a wealth of information out there.

Unfortunately what I'm attracted to is what I'm familiar with and what I'm

familiar with is definitely not healthy. At the very least I'm starting to

be able to recognize healthy people when I see them.

Greg

MEN- Side effects from BPD Mother

> >

> >

> > > Hi,

> > > Ya I have been gone for a while. Still trying to sort this stuff

> all

> > > out. I did pick up UBM and im *still* reading it.

> > >

> > > Any men out there have any problems in terms of relationships with

> > > girlfriend/ or wife?

> > >

> > > Mostly in terms of : openess of feelings, and keeping things

> bottled

> > > in, inability to relax.

> > >

> > > just wondering...

> > > sims

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > To get off the list, send a blank message to

> > ModOasis-unsubscribe Send questions & amp; concerns

> to

> > ModOasis-owner & quot;Stop Walking on

> Eggshells, & quot; a

> > primer for non-BPs can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (888-357-

> 4355). For the

> > table of contents, see http://www.BPDCentral.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Dear Cyndie,

I was in therapy when I met my husband. I recognized that he was the kind of

man you marry so of course I wasn't wildly attracted to him. But I did want

to go out with him. I had to work through how uncomfortable is was to be with

some one who didn't treat me bad one way or another. My best friend and my

therapist both reminded me that coming from my background, rotton people feel

like home so just get used to something different. I married him for all the

right reasons like in the old days. How it really turned out is he is so much

like me. He comes from craziness and chaos. He's from an old Los Angeles

society family that put on a real good face to the public. But after 23 years

of

marriage we both know better. We have similar fleas but we can support each

other. so I didn't marry my mother I married my self. Eventually you will

find your way. Incidently I read a book called Creative Agression years ago

that has a whole different take on caregiving. If you can track it down, it's

pretty interesting. I think the author is Herb Goldman or something similar.

but I don't really remember.

[Guest guest]

armywife3@... writes: > <<he is the same all the time..nothing

> depresses him, nothing excites him, very little angers him.....I've never seen

him

> tear up, or have any extreme emotion...it drives me crazy too just in a

> different way.>>

Did you marry my husband??? Ha ha just kidding. Mine is excactly the same.

Guess I wanted anything but another prima donna. We always joke that my

hubby had his emotions surgically removed and my son and son-in-law

(good-naturedly) call him the Flatliner. It can be frustrating at times, and

there's always

the temptation to provoke a reaction but.........by and large, I know he's

good for me. I'm choking these words out because we also argued this weekend

and I don't feel like saying anything even remortely flattering about him lol!!

When I'm feeling kinder though, I genuinely can and do appreciate the calm he

provides in my life.

Hope you feel better soon,

.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I really enjoyed your post - thank you.

<<I> recognized that he was the kind of man you marry so of course I wasn't

> wildly attracted to him.>> Oh what a wonderful line!!

>

> << But I did want > to go out with him. I had to work through how

> uncomfortable is was to be with some one who didn't treat me bad one way or

another.>>

> Yes, I found it took a great deal of work to feel comfortable too. I was

> quite suspicious of mine for a long time because he was so consistent. It was

the fact that 'he was always there' that attracted and repelled me. For the

longest time, I thought there was something very wrong with him for sticking

around, for not hitting me, or screaming at me or walking out or any of the

other

dramatic behavior I was accustomed to.

At first, I too thought my husband was very different to me but over the

years, I've realized in many ways we are very similar. He comes from a

background

of abuse as well and I guess at some point he shut down. He would rather not

deal with his past - which is fine with me. Each to his own.

.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sims,

Can't vouch for the KO men but I know this KO woman certainly knows

how to pick emotionally unavailable men!

My current relationship has been ongoing for over a year. While he

can be emotionally feeling, (and that's good compared to my exh,)

there's nothing there in regards to verbal communication which makes

up a true intimate connection.

Me thinks my high quantity of empathy picks out men who need a

mommy's nurturing. I think I may be transfering what I missed into

giving it into a relationship. Again though, as in mommy dearest, it

falls to the deaf, dumb and blind people I appear to have the pattern

to pick.

I just love being needed... ? Maybe it's the trained zoo keeper in

me. I'm used to giving. It's all I've ever done. God forbid I receive

something in return. I wouldn't know how to live up to the receiving

end? I must be the poster child zoo keeper. Always feeding and caring

for aminals, the latter being either getting shxt on or cleaning up

others people's shxt - and stroking. Lots of stroking.

Cyndie

> Hi,

> Ya I have been gone for a while. Still trying to sort this stuff

all

> out. I did pick up UBM and im *still* reading it.

>

> Any men out there have any problems in terms of relationships with

> girlfriend/ or wife?

>

> Mostly in terms of : openess of feelings, and keeping things

bottled

> in, inability to relax.

>

> just wondering...

> sims

[Guest guest]

I also picked my husband because he was extremely emotionally

neutral in everything..he rarely shows any extreme emotion and often

shows no emotions at all....(of course this has its exceptions like

my recent argument with him) however it is uncharacteristic of him

to show any emotion of any kind. He is pretty much always calm and

moderately happy. I know I consciously chose him because I was

tired of my mom's mood swings...I was tired of men who were too much

like mom..they were extremely passionate but they also could be

extremely angry or extremely depressed etc.....I just wanted someone

who was the same all the time...boy I got it alright....he is the

same all the time..nothing depresses him, nothing excites him, very

little angers him.....I've never seen him tear up, or have any

extreme emotion...it drives me crazy too just in a different way.

> > Hi,

> > Ya I have been gone for a while. Still trying to sort this stuff

> all

> > out. I did pick up UBM and im *still* reading it.

> >

> > Any men out there have any problems in terms of relationships

with

> > girlfriend/ or wife?

> >

> > Mostly in terms of : openess of feelings, and keeping things

> bottled

> > in, inability to relax.

> >

> > just wondering...

> > sims

[Guest guest]

My ex-husband was volatile and critical. In many ways I married my

mother. Now I have progressed to a relationship on the other end of

the spectrum - or so I thought. A man that was even and neutral. Now

I am beginning to see in this case, I selected my father.

Funny that after awhile the lack of criticsm seemed like praise. But

it is not.

Now I find my b/f is not quite as detached and accepting as I

thought. Those feelings he didn't have are there - but under the

surface. So now he can lash out at me like my mother (well really no

one can do it LIKE her - but he can take that role in a mini series)

and shut me out (like my mother) and then later be in the

detached " we don't talk about those things because if we talk about

them that would be like they really happened " like my father.

Damn! It's like I picked another human or something!

> armywife3@y... writes: > <<he is the same all the time..nothing

> > depresses him, nothing excites him, very little angers

him.....I've never seen him

> > tear up, or have any extreme emotion...it drives me crazy too

just in a

> > different way.>>

>

> Did you marry my husband??? Ha ha just kidding. Mine is excactly

the same.

> Guess I wanted anything but another prima donna. We always joke

that my

> hubby had his emotions surgically removed and my son and son-in-law

> (good-naturedly) call him the Flatliner. It can be frustrating at

times, and there's always

> the temptation to provoke a reaction but.........by and large, I

know he's

> good for me. I'm choking these words out because we also argued

this weekend

> and I don't feel like saying anything even remortely flattering

about him lol!!

> When I'm feeling kinder though, I genuinely can and do appreciate

the calm he

> provides in my life.

>

> Hope you feel better soon,

> .

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hahaha....sooo funny...I too am in no mood to compliment the hubby.

The funny thing is that he really is immune of emotions for the most

part. The only one who can provoke a reaction out of him is me. So

that is why it bothers me when we fight b/c deep down I know that I

must have provoked him. He is a flatliner too...it takes a whole

lot to tick him off....so I have to watch my fleas in that area...my

mom loves to provoke me and then get mad when I react. I'd hate to

think I do that (gasp!)...I try not to and I'm getting sooo much

better but sometimes I want to see a little life going on behind

those eyeballs..you know what I mean?

> armywife3@y... writes: > <<he is the same all the time..nothing

> > depresses him, nothing excites him, very little angers

him.....I've never seen him

> > tear up, or have any extreme emotion...it drives me crazy too

just in a

> > different way.>>

>

> Did you marry my husband??? Ha ha just kidding. Mine is excactly

the same.

> Guess I wanted anything but another prima donna. We always joke

that my

> hubby had his emotions surgically removed and my son and son-in-

law

> (good-naturedly) call him the Flatliner. It can be frustrating at

times, and there's always

> the temptation to provoke a reaction but.........by and large, I

know he's

> good for me. I'm choking these words out because we also argued

this weekend

> and I don't feel like saying anything even remortely flattering

about him lol!!

> When I'm feeling kinder though, I genuinely can and do appreciate

the calm he

> provides in my life.

>

> Hope you feel better soon,

> .

>

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Cyndie,

I read this post of yours this morning on a break from reading a

paper for one of my psychology courses, and it got me thinking. The

paper I am reading mentions how girls learn early in life that one of

the most rewarded activities for girls is taking care of others.

I also tend to get in relationships where I get to be the 'nurturer'.

Now I am starting to think, that part of my taking care of others

(especially others who don't appreciate it, so I never have to 'stop'

taking care of them) is like a way of me feeling worth something,

that there is something I can do, to feel capable. I guess on a gut

level, if the relationship were more balanced and we each gave and

recieved, I would be afraid that my 'nurturing' would eventually not

be needed any longer, and that then I would be useless.

What do you think, listies?

Hope

<< Me thinks my high quantity of empathy picks out men who need a

mommy's nurturing. I think I may be transfering what I missed into

giving it into a relationship. Again though, as in mommy dearest, it

falls to the deaf, dumb and blind people I appear to have the pattern

to pick.

I just love being needed... ? Maybe it's the trained zoo keeper in

me. I'm used to giving. It's all I've ever done. God forbid I receive

something in return. I wouldn't know how to live up to the receiving

end? I must be the poster child zoo keeper. Always feeding and caring

for aminals, the latter being either getting shxt on or cleaning up

others people's shxt - and stroking. Lots of stroking.

Cyndie >>>

[Guest guest]

Hi. I think we fear emotional intimacy because it requires

vulnerability and God knows we couldn't be vulnerable as KO's. It

simply wasn't safe to be playful and loving. I hid that part of me

away for safe keeping, but it is still here. Having the courage to be

vulnerable with someone we feel safe with is a beautiful thing and it

doesn't have to be in a relationship. We can have it with friends, I

think the sharing we do on this list is intimate in that we share

from the heart. It is good practice for a love relationship. None of

us probably had a good example of how two lovers are supposed to

treat each other. I know I didn't. Far from it. My parents never

showed any physical affection and I was always an affectionate kid. I

am happy to say that I still am. I love that part of me and I think

there are so many gifts waiting for us in our inner child. So many.

So I don't think we have to " fix " ourselves in order to " find "

someone, I think our inner child is already perfect and we just need

to let go of what is preventing us from connecting with that

innocence and truth. Of course,I think WE need to make that

connection with ourself before any other relationship will really

work. A very good book on this subejct: Homecoming by Bradshaw.

Good stuff. My two cents. -.

> << Me thinks my high quantity of empathy picks out men who need a

> mommy's nurturing. I think I may be transfering what I missed into

> giving it into a relationship. Again though, as in mommy dearest,

it

> falls to the deaf, dumb and blind people I appear to have the

pattern

> to pick.

>

> I just love being needed... ? Maybe it's the trained zoo keeper in

> me. I'm used to giving. It's all I've ever done. God forbid I

receive

> something in return. I wouldn't know how to live up to the

receiving

> end? I must be the poster child zoo keeper. Always feeding and

caring

> for aminals, the latter being either getting shxt on or cleaning up

> others people's shxt - and stroking. Lots of stroking.

>

> Cyndie >>>

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

You wrote:

> My current relationship has been ongoing for over a year. While he

> can be emotionally feeling, (and that's good compared to my exh,)

> there's nothing there in regards to verbal communication which

makes

> up a true intimate connection.

Good verbal communication is my problem (atleast thats what my ex

told me) which lead to the problme of the true intimate connection.

Is that really a flea though?

If anyone has any recommendations...im listening!

sims

[Guest guest]

Being still young and single, I am very worried that I will meat

someone who I will love more than life itself, and then I will have

to tell her about my BPD mom and they will have to meet.

For me Im worried about someone accepting me and everything that

comes with me...

nervous

sims

> Dear Cyndie,

> I was in therapy when I met my husband. I recognized that he was

the kind of

> man you marry so of course I wasn't wildly attracted to him. But I

did want

> to go out with him. I had to work through how uncomfortable is was

to be with

> some one who didn't treat me bad one way or another. My best

friend and my

> therapist both reminded me that coming from my background, rotton

people feel

> like home so just get used to something different. I married him

for all the

> right reasons like in the old days. How it really turned out is he

is so much

> like me. He comes from craziness and chaos. He's from an old Los

Angeles

> society family that put on a real good face to the public. But

after 23 years of

> marriage we both know better. We have similar fleas but we can

support each

> other. so I didn't marry my mother I married my self. Eventually

you will

> find your way. Incidently I read a book called Creative Agression

years ago

> that has a whole different take on caregiving. If you can track it

down, it's

> pretty interesting. I think the author is Herb Goldman or

something similar.

> but I don't really remember.

[Guest guest]

Sims

I can totally understand your concerns

My son was over Sunday night for dinner with his girl friend. He needed to vent

about his fada because fada's behaviour is particularly bizarre at present

(getting worse) I wondered how comfortable his girl friend would be with it all.

They have been dating about 6 months. She was fine. He had told her all about

his fada. She has even met him, but my son sees very little of his fada. Eldest

son needs to talk about fada.

Second son bottles it all up. Now and then he'll vent and feel really terrible

for letting out his horrible situation, even though he knows we all agree he

probably needs to do it rather than let it eat away at him.

Youngest (18) worries what she is going to say when she meets the guy she wants

to marry one day. She really stresses about it. I tell her to take one day at a

time. Who knows what things will be like in the future. She worries that I can't

be in the same room as her fada. She asks what will happen at her wedding? Again

I say we'll deal with it all when the time comes.

Meeting does not mean living together. You set the boundaries. If she interferes

with your relationships, you have an idea of how your nada may react with your

true love. Will she be jealous? My nada in law was morbidly jealous of anyone

and everyone, so naturally I threatened her when I was going out with her BPD

son. She made life almost intolerable for us at times. I should have suspected

something when I met him - he kept putting off organised meetings with his

parents. They were very very strange. She was extremely nasty. I still married

him!

hope this helps

Ellie

submalst wrote:

Being still young and single, I am very worried that I will meat

someone who I will love more than life itself, and then I will have

to tell her about my BPD mom and they will have to meet.

For me Im worried about someone accepting me and everything that

comes with me...

nervous

sims

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

free_spirit_etc@... writes:<<> Now I find my b/f is not quite as

detached and accepting as I thought. Those feelings he didn't have are there -

but

under the surface. So now he can lash out at me like my mother......and shut me

out (like my mother) and then later be in the detached " we don't talk about

those things because if we talk about them that would be like they really

happened " like my father.>>

I identify SO much with these feelings. My husband doesn't lash out at me

but he definitely winds me up and then denies it, or winds me up and then shuts

down. It's when he shuts down, that I need to get a reaction from him because

it triggers so much rejection in me ON TOP of being wound up in the first

place. In the past, I've acted out to get the reaction, then felt so much shame

for my behavior, begged for forgiveness and suffered terribly.

Now I've come to realize that in all this, what is overlooked is my husband's

contribution.

I've done so much work to try change my behavior and have been very

successful. Now in some ways, I feel I've 'outgrown' my husband's behavior. I

feel I

just don't need it any more - and this is when I confuse things by thinking I

don't need him.

Since our argument ove the weekend, I'm so low that I have to look up to see

street level. I'd really appreciate knowing what other people do to pull

themselves up.

Thanks, .

[Guest guest]

Hope wrote:

> Now I am starting to think, that part of my taking care of others

> (especially others who don't appreciate it, so I never have to

'stop'

> taking care of them) is like a way of me feeling worth something,

> that there is something I can do, to feel capable.

Yep. I feel like the grownup, the leader, the boss - all the things I

wasn't w/the FOO and the ex. I also feel good when I give. Like I've

contributed. Yet, I find what I've contributed is my emotional

health. But I really love him...

I guess on a gut

> level, if the relationship were more balanced and we each gave and

> recieved, I would be afraid that my 'nurturing' would eventually

not

> be needed any longer, and that then I would be useless.

This makes lots of sense. I can think of a zillion other reasons why

I wouldn't want someone normal too.! Take all the replies and combine

them and then add some, and there you have it.

Cyndie

[Guest guest]

Hey !

Yep. I agree. Sometimes though, other dynamics add a whole new

dimension to this belief. It's this ideal and hopeful belief on love

that got me into trouble as I didn't see the other dimension.

The other dimension being connecting to the familiar. That being

falling for someone with emotional and/or mental issues.

After being in this relationship, and getting hurt >> again << I'm

not sure that I still have that hope and belief I once did. I think

to have that I'd need to change somehow, and I'm not quite sure how.

I can't put my finger on it. I think it could mean looking for

someone without issues. I'm not sure I could accept that!

Cyndie

>

> Hi. I think we fear emotional intimacy because it requires

> vulnerability and God knows we couldn't be vulnerable as KO's. It

> simply wasn't safe to be playful and loving. I hid that part of me

> away for safe keeping, but it is still here. Having the courage to

be

> vulnerable with someone we feel safe with is a beautiful thing and

it

> doesn't have to be in a relationship. We can have it with friends,

I

> think the sharing we do on this list is intimate in that we share

> from the heart. It is good practice for a love relationship. None

of

> us probably had a good example of how two lovers are supposed to

> treat each other. I know I didn't. Far from it. My parents never

> showed any physical affection and I was always an affectionate kid.

I

> am happy to say that I still am. I love that part of me and I think

> there are so many gifts waiting for us in our inner child. So many.

> So I don't think we have to " fix " ourselves in order to " find "

> someone, I think our inner child is already perfect and we just

need

> to let go of what is preventing us from connecting with that

> innocence and truth. Of course,I think WE need to make that

> connection with ourself before any other relationship will really

> work. A very good book on this subejct: Homecoming by

Bradshaw.

> Good stuff. My two cents. -.

[Guest guest]

> Good verbal communication is my problem (atleast thats what my ex

> told me) which lead to the problme of the true intimate connection.

> Is that really a flea though?

> If anyone has any recommendations...im listening!

> sims

Hey sims,

A guy who listens? Now there's some hope!!

I can't vouch for it being a flea or not. Sometimes it's our makeup

and has nothing to do with it being a flea. You could just be a quiet

guy who doesn't talk a lot. Then again, it could be a flea where

you're afraid to show or verbalize emotion b/c of your BP mother.

Something you might need to figure out for yourself. Maybe it's a bit

of both. Hard digging through the crap, huh?

You might want to question more what happens with those feelings that

aren't being expressed verbally. Such as, is your SO getting the love

she needs in other ways? And on the negative feelings, are those

coming out in passive aggressive ways?

No relationship is perfect. Needs cannot be expected to be met 100%

by anyone. Hopefully what's communicated to your SO is good enough to

fill her emotional needs. If she wants to chat? Have her call a girl

friend. We love chatting >> specially about our SO's!!! If she wants

a hug, that's what you're there for? Just some suggestions... :0)

Sometimes we need to be accepted for who we are. With or without

fleas. Hopefully both of your needs are being met enough so you live

happily ever after!

Take care,

Cyndie

[Guest guest]

Good book. Bradshaw's tapes are tremendous as well. CA

> >

> > Hi. I think we fear emotional intimacy because it requires

> > vulnerability and God knows we couldn't be vulnerable as KO's. It

> > simply wasn't safe to be playful and loving. I hid that part of

me

> > away for safe keeping, but it is still here. Having the courage

to

> be

> > vulnerable with someone we feel safe with is a beautiful thing

and

> it

> > doesn't have to be in a relationship. We can have it with

friends,

> I

> > think the sharing we do on this list is intimate in that we share

> > from the heart. It is good practice for a love relationship. None

> of

> > us probably had a good example of how two lovers are supposed to

> > treat each other. I know I didn't. Far from it. My parents never

> > showed any physical affection and I was always an affectionate

kid.

> I

> > am happy to say that I still am. I love that part of me and I

think

> > there are so many gifts waiting for us in our inner child. So

many.

> > So I don't think we have to " fix " ourselves in order to " find "

> > someone, I think our inner child is already perfect and we just

> need

> > to let go of what is preventing us from connecting with that

> > innocence and truth. Of course,I think WE need to make that

> > connection with ourself before any other relationship will really

> > work. A very good book on this subejct: Homecoming by

> Bradshaw.

> > Good stuff. My two cents. -.

[Guest guest]

Who is Bradshaw? Thanks.

> > >

> > > Hi. I think we fear emotional intimacy because it requires

> > > vulnerability and God knows we couldn't be vulnerable as KO's.

It

> > > simply wasn't safe to be playful and loving. I hid that part

of

> me

> > > away for safe keeping, but it is still here. Having the

courage

> to

> > be

> > > vulnerable with someone we feel safe with is a beautiful thing

> and

> > it

> > > doesn't have to be in a relationship. We can have it with

> friends,

> > I

> > > think the sharing we do on this list is intimate in that we

share

> > > from the heart. It is good practice for a love relationship.

None

> > of

> > > us probably had a good example of how two lovers are supposed

to

> > > treat each other. I know I didn't. Far from it. My parents

never

> > > showed any physical affection and I was always an affectionate

> kid.

> > I

> > > am happy to say that I still am. I love that part of me and I

> think

> > > there are so many gifts waiting for us in our inner child. So

> many.

> > > So I don't think we have to " fix " ourselves in order to " find "

> > > someone, I think our inner child is already perfect and we

just

> > need

> > > to let go of what is preventing us from connecting with that

> > > innocence and truth. Of course,I think WE need to make that

> > > connection with ourself before any other relationship will

really

> > > work. A very good book on this subejct: Homecoming by

> > Bradshaw.

> > > Good stuff. My two cents. -.

[Guest guest]

I will definitely read that book. Emotional intimacy has always been

very hard for me with anyone. When my ex and I broke up, one of the

things he said to me hit home; he said I was so strong I didn't need

anybody and there was nothing he could do for me. Well, I wasn't

really that strong, but growing up with my Nada self-reliance = self-

preservation. The less I needed from her or anybody the less

vulnerable I felt. This is the first year I have really been able to

start opening up to others, but it is a constant struggle to break

the habit of mistrust.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ladysilver,

You and I are on the same page. In the past, I was told countless times how

strong I am when all the time, I was just acting strong and dying a bit more

on the inside. When you come from a background where there's no point in

asking for help because no-one would listen or care, of course you develop a

certain kind of strength because you need to survive. However, people mistake

this

coping skill for strength. Add to this the fact that personally I'm too

afraid to show anyone how vulnerable I am and wham, people even think I'm tough!

Makes me feel like a real phony.

I am in a long term relationship but this too is the first year that I'm

making great changes. When I opened up in a class I took last year and said a

few

things that I normally wouldn't, I was absolutely amazed that the other

students still liked me. Years and years of not knowing who I am and expecting

that others will find me as hateful as my Mother does, certainly takes its toll.

Good luck with your progress.............babysteps!

(currently reading UBM).