Re: Also Having A Horrible Night and Role Models?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/14/2003 1:20:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tschule1@... writes:

But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

envious of people who have large loving families, or even small loving

families. They are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow

a

family and community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

terribly successful.

Hi, I only read here ramdomly (for over a year and I love this group BTW, so

honest and frank!) and have only posted once. My biggest problem is my

nasty BP/NPXH, so BPtrait mommy only ranks a distant second compared to him in

the

hierarchy of dysfunction right now. I am very sorry that you feel this

way, and you aren't alone! I had to ditto these lines and say that some of

this holiday-happy-family-get-together-warm-memory BS on TV is really getting on

my nerves.

NadaMom (she's not quite bad enough to be a 100%nada) has such a bad case of

the " they never call me " -itis (she refuses to pick up a phone herself) that

she has alienated herself from her large and pleasant but odd family. She's

an only kid, but Her mother had 9 Bs and Ss, she has lots cousins, nieces,

nephews, aunts etc, most all live in her town. She's constantly boohooing

about how she has " no one " around, but it looks to me like her own fault. I

ask

what about X or Y?-- " well they never call me or anything " . She just lives

to do a breathy " poor me " sigh-thing

She is a grand isolator (without knowing it). Dad is wheelchair-bound

(and brain-spacy) with MS, his family is only 2 hrs away but he hasn't seen any

of them in ages because he would need her help and cooperation to facilitate

visits. She has all these substanceless hang-ups about dads family. The

point is that her neuroses have built a moat aound my the extended family and

me (and my sis).

I am also jealous of people with family around (geographically AND

emotionally!), even more so since son my was born, I feel like Im passing on

this

family-less lifestyle to him. His father's (the BP/NPXH) FOO is even worse,

they're like a really sad Jerry Springer show.

Even though Im not active member of this list, I appreciate that you all are

here. Just reading the subject lines makes me feel less alone (the recent

one about " Anyone ever get tired about their family'e complaints? " was very

timely for me!).

Thanks and best to all.

[Guest guest]

>Hi Deirdre,

I used to feel so much rage at my nada that I would lay there at

night and just sent out black waves of hatred and rage to her. I

wanted to give it to her because I didn't want it anymore. It helped

alot.

Tammy

Hi ,

>

> First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible night.

What's up

> with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

lingering

> cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo. I

couldn't

> stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored the

fact that

> my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

contributed

> to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more white

hot with

> rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

emotions

> surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that because

of being a

> KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

really need!

> So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

>

> My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of months

ago. I also

> came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

adults who

> were around to see what was happening to me but none of them tried

to help.

> I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

friendship and

> support would have made a huge difference in my life. However, my

nada was

> very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and made

it clear

> that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably kept

other

> adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

didn't try to

> help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that they

were not

> welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

really ever

> have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach

with

> grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

Well, she

> postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38, but

it finally

> came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her. It

has been a

> real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

envious of

> people who have large loving families, or even small loving

families. They

> are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow a

family and

> community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

terribly

> successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning out

all the

> crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming trusting

intimate

> friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel any

pull that I

> would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

people her

> age).

>

> I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her crap.

So every

> time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

curse her and

> I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes me

feel a

> little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even when

she was a

> creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER! And why

> wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to the

things

> she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

>

> Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

didn't have

> any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

experience

> of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or ending

up dead

> in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

determination. So,

> the same goes for you.

>

> I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

>

> Take care,

>

> Deirdre

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: sherby2k [mailto:sherby2k@y...]

> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:16 PM

> To: ModOasis

> Subject: Role models?

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> Posting tonight reminded me that there was something else I wanted

to

> ask this list. I'm reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " , and

there

> was a section on Role Models...the exercise talked about recalling

> the adults in my life who inspired me, or who taught me about love,

> or even just about what was normal in relationships. Well, I came

up

> empty. It made me feel pretty broken, to realize that there was

> simply nobody in my life that I had ever looked up to, no one close

> enough to give me hope that not every family was like mine, that

not

> everyone acted like nada. I had some friends, but their parents

were

> divorced, or alcoholics, or as crazy as nada. There were a few

adults

> in our church who I tried to form friendships with, but they both

> distanced themselves from me for reasons that I don't know.. maybe

> they knew the truth about my family and just didn't want to get

> involved, I don't know. It was painful and confusing.

>

> Does anyone else have this experience? Am I the only one who never

> had a role model growing up?

>

> My brothers all have/had role models, my older brother still talks

to

> his. The funny thing about that is that he's only two years older

> than me, and I could have connected with her as well, but I got the

> feeling from her that one of us was quite enough for her.

>

> I realize now that I'm actually pretty bitter about it. I was so

> desperately in need of *someone*, *anyone*, to look up to, to run

to

> when things got tough, and I think I carried this with me into my

> current life - some days I feel so incredibly lonely, like I need

to

> be hugged and never let go. My husband gives me some of this

support,

> but I feel like nothing he or anyone else can do will ever be

enough,

> like I have this huge hole that a mother should have filled but

never

> did (I wonder how he can put up with me when I'm in these moods).

>

> And the irony of that is, now I have lots of trouble getting close

to

> anyone, but especially to anyone significantly older than me. I

have

> a terrific mother-in-law but I don't open up to her and I don't

call

> her, she has even asked me to call her whenever I need to talk but

I

> don't, I'm just waiting for her to walk away from me, like everyone

> else did.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Deirdre,

I hope today is going better for you (mine certainly did).

It IS freeing, to be able to freely express anger towards our nadas.

I go back and forth, but I think I've gotten most of the white-hot

rage out of my system:). Let it all out, because you need to and

because it's NOT fair, what we had to endure, and it sucked so much

joy out of our lives and still continues to affect us. I think my

rage lessened once I decided to simply walk away from her and start

paying attention to myself, for a change. My rage was hurting me, and

nada certainly did enough damage in that respect.

As for the role models, although I'm sad that so many of us had to

endure without any support whatsoever, it's comforting to me to hear

that others understand the anger and disgust at all those people who,

if they had only shown a little kindness, maybe a little friendship,

could have helped us so much. On one level I give them some slack,

because most of them didn't know the truth about our family, and the

ones who did either stayed away or were driven away by nada, and if I

were them would I have wanted to face nada? But it still doesn't help

to know that, because I was still left to deal with it on my own. My

NPD dad just stood aside, let it all happen, backed nada all the way,

and so I had nobody.

And now, like you, I feel so alone sometimes. But is it any wonder

that we feel alone? In a way, it helps me to understand that side of

me, the part that feels horribly lonely in a crowded room, the part

that has so much trouble forming bonds with other people. My inner

child says, " I tried that already, it didn't work. "

But small steps, small steps. I actually answer the door when the

doorbell rings now, instead of hiding in the bedroom lol. One hermit

flea at a time, and maybe someday I won't feel so lonely.

Do you think that KOs ever get to a place where the lonely feeling

goes away completely? Just wondering.

Take care,

> Hi ,

>

> First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible night.

What's up

> with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

lingering

> cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo. I

couldn't

> stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored the

fact that

> my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

contributed

> to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more white

hot with

> rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

emotions

> surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that because

of being a

> KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

really need!

> So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

>

> My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of months

ago. I also

> came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

adults who

> were around to see what was happening to me but none of them tried

to help.

> I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

friendship and

> support would have made a huge difference in my life. However, my

nada was

> very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and made

it clear

> that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably kept

other

> adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

didn't try to

> help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that they

were not

> welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

really ever

> have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach

with

> grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

Well, she

> postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38, but

it finally

> came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her. It

has been a

> real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

envious of

> people who have large loving families, or even small loving

families. They

> are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow a

family and

> community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

terribly

> successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning out

all the

> crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming trusting

intimate

> friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel any

pull that I

> would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

people her

> age).

>

> I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her crap.

So every

> time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

curse her and

> I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes me

feel a

> little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even when

she was a

> creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER! And why

> wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to the

things

> she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

>

> Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

didn't have

> any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

experience

> of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or ending

up dead

> in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

determination. So,

> the same goes for you.

>

> I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

>

> Take care,

>

> Deirdre

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tammy,

Thank you for sharing this with me. It really helps me to know that other

KOs have felt this kind of rage. It also helps to know that feeling your

rage and hatred actually helped you, and that you got past it.

I also feel like all this BP crap that I have had to deal with doesn't

belong to me, it belongs to her, and I no longer want anything to do with

it. The more I understand what happened in my childhood the more outraged I

become.

Deirdre

From: legoarwen2003

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 1:19 PM

To: ModOasis

Subject: Re: Also Having A Horrible Night and Role Models?

>Hi Deirdre,

I used to feel so much rage at my nada that I would lay there at

night and just sent out black waves of hatred and rage to her. I

wanted to give it to her because I didn't want it anymore. It helped

alot.

Tammy

Hi ,

>

> First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible night.

What's up

> with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

lingering

> cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo. I

couldn't

> stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored the

fact that

> my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

contributed

> to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more white

hot with

> rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

emotions

> surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that because

of being a

> KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

really need!

> So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

>

> My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of months

ago. I also

> came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

adults who

> were around to see what was happening to me but none of them tried

to help.

> I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

friendship and

> support would have made a huge difference in my life. However, my

nada was

> very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and made

it clear

> that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably kept

other

> adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

didn't try to

> help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that they

were not

> welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

really ever

> have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach

with

> grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

Well, she

> postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38, but

it finally

> came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her. It

has been a

> real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

envious of

> people who have large loving families, or even small loving

families. They

> are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow a

family and

> community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

terribly

> successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning out

all the

> crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming trusting

intimate

> friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel any

pull that I

> would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

people her

> age).

>

> I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her crap.

So every

> time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

curse her and

> I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes me

feel a

> little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even when

she was a

> creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER! And why

> wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to the

things

> she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

>

> Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

didn't have

> any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

experience

> of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or ending

up dead

> in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

determination. So,

> the same goes for you.

>

> I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

>

> Take care,

>

> Deirdre

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: sherby2k [mailto:sherby2k@y...]

> Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:16 PM

> To: ModOasis

> Subject: Role models?

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> Posting tonight reminded me that there was something else I wanted

to

> ask this list. I'm reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " , and

there

> was a section on Role Models...the exercise talked about recalling

> the adults in my life who inspired me, or who taught me about love,

> or even just about what was normal in relationships. Well, I came

up

> empty. It made me feel pretty broken, to realize that there was

> simply nobody in my life that I had ever looked up to, no one close

> enough to give me hope that not every family was like mine, that

not

> everyone acted like nada. I had some friends, but their parents

were

> divorced, or alcoholics, or as crazy as nada. There were a few

adults

> in our church who I tried to form friendships with, but they both

> distanced themselves from me for reasons that I don't know.. maybe

> they knew the truth about my family and just didn't want to get

> involved, I don't know. It was painful and confusing.

>

> Does anyone else have this experience? Am I the only one who never

> had a role model growing up?

>

> My brothers all have/had role models, my older brother still talks

to

> his. The funny thing about that is that he's only two years older

> than me, and I could have connected with her as well, but I got the

> feeling from her that one of us was quite enough for her.

>

> I realize now that I'm actually pretty bitter about it. I was so

> desperately in need of *someone*, *anyone*, to look up to, to run

to

> when things got tough, and I think I carried this with me into my

> current life - some days I feel so incredibly lonely, like I need

to

> be hugged and never let go. My husband gives me some of this

support,

> but I feel like nothing he or anyone else can do will ever be

enough,

> like I have this huge hole that a mother should have filled but

never

> did (I wonder how he can put up with me when I'm in these moods).

>

> And the irony of that is, now I have lots of trouble getting close

to

> anyone, but especially to anyone significantly older than me. I

have

> a terrific mother-in-law but I don't open up to her and I don't

call

> her, she has even asked me to call her whenever I need to talk but

I

> don't, I'm just waiting for her to walk away from me, like everyone

> else did.

>

> Thanks for listening.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sherby2k wrote:

> Do you think that KOs ever get to a place where the lonely feeling

> goes away completely? Just wondering.

Progress is slow but it eventually will. You'll see.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

I'm just now turning the bend and Edith is right that it gets better--however it

feels like it's going to take forever. Learning to spend time alone in

meditation with God, great spirit, the universe, or whatever else it might be

called, seemed to be the most helpful to me. It has been so fulfilling to

connect to faith in a way that says I don't have to do anything to deserve love,

I just have to be and every living being deserves that kind of love. Edith I

still have a few of these lonely feelings--I'm curious, when did they disappear

for you? Have you reached complete healing and what does that feel like, look

like? tiki

Re: Re: Also Having A Horrible Night and Role Models?

sherby2k wrote:

> Do you think that KOs ever get to a place where the lonely feeling

> goes away completely? Just wondering.

Progress is slow but it eventually will. You'll see.

- Edith

[Guest guest]

> >Hi Deirdre,

>

> I used to feel so much rage at my nada that I would lay there at

> night and just sent out black waves of hatred and rage to her. I

> wanted to give it to her because I didn't want it anymore. It

helped

> alot.

>

> Tammy

>

> Hi ,

> >

> > First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible

night.

> What's up

> > with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

> lingering

> > cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo. I

> couldn't

> > stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored the

> fact that

> > my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

> contributed

> > to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more

white

> hot with

> > rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

> emotions

> > surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that because

> of being a

> > KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

> really need!

> > So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

> >

> > My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of months

> ago. I also

> > came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

> adults who

> > were around to see what was happening to me but none of them

tried

> to help.

> > I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

> friendship and

> > support would have made a huge difference in my life. However, my

> nada was

> > very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and made

> it clear

> > that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably

kept

> other

> > adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

> didn't try to

> > help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that

they

> were not

> > welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

> really ever

> > have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my

stomach

> with

> > grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

> Well, she

> > postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38, but

> it finally

> > came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her. It

> has been a

> > real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

> envious of

> > people who have large loving families, or even small loving

> families. They

> > are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow a

> family and

> > community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

> terribly

> > successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning out

> all the

> > crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming trusting

> intimate

> > friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel any

> pull that I

> > would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

> people her

> > age).

> >

> > I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her

crap.

> So every

> > time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

> curse her and

> > I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes me

> feel a

> > little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even when

> she was a

> > creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER! And

why

> > wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to

the

> things

> > she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

> >

> > Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

> didn't have

> > any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

> experience

> > of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or

ending

> up dead

> > in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

> determination. So,

> > the same goes for you.

> >

> > I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

> >

> > Take care,

> >

> > Deirdre

> >

> >

> >

> > _____

> >

> > From: sherby2k [mailto:sherby2k@y...]

> > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:16 PM

> > To: ModOasis

> > Subject: Role models?

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > Posting tonight reminded me that there was something else I

wanted

> to

> > ask this list. I'm reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " , and

> there

> > was a section on Role Models...the exercise talked about

recalling

> > the adults in my life who inspired me, or who taught me about

love,

> > or even just about what was normal in relationships. Well, I came

> up

> > empty. It made me feel pretty broken, to realize that there was

> > simply nobody in my life that I had ever looked up to, no one

close

> > enough to give me hope that not every family was like mine, that

> not

> > everyone acted like nada. I had some friends, but their parents

> were

> > divorced, or alcoholics, or as crazy as nada. There were a few

> adults

> > in our church who I tried to form friendships with, but they both

> > distanced themselves from me for reasons that I don't know..

maybe

> > they knew the truth about my family and just didn't want to get

> > involved, I don't know. It was painful and confusing.

> >

> > Does anyone else have this experience? Am I the only one who

never

> > had a role model growing up?

> >

> > My brothers all have/had role models, my older brother still

talks

> to

> > his. The funny thing about that is that he's only two years older

> > than me, and I could have connected with her as well, but I got

the

> > feeling from her that one of us was quite enough for her.

> >

> > I realize now that I'm actually pretty bitter about it. I was so

> > desperately in need of *someone*, *anyone*, to look up to, to run

> to

> > when things got tough, and I think I carried this with me into my

> > current life - some days I feel so incredibly lonely, like I need

> to

> > be hugged and never let go. My husband gives me some of this

> support,

> > but I feel like nothing he or anyone else can do will ever be

> enough,

> > like I have this huge hole that a mother should have filled but

> never

> > did (I wonder how he can put up with me when I'm in these moods).

> >

> > And the irony of that is, now I have lots of trouble getting

close

> to

> > anyone, but especially to anyone significantly older than me. I

> have

> > a terrific mother-in-law but I don't open up to her and I don't

> call

> > her, she has even asked me to call her whenever I need to talk

but

> I

> > don't, I'm just waiting for her to walk away from me, like

everyone

> > else did.

> >

> > Thanks for listening.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Tammy,

But look at you! You recognized it and are working through it. It

may always " be there " to some degree, but the intensity, duration and

over-all affect is probably lessening overall.

I'm so sorry. Is your week going any better than your week-end?

Cathi

> > >Hi Deirdre,

> >

> > I used to feel so much rage at my nada that I would lay there at

> > night and just sent out black waves of hatred and rage to her. I

> > wanted to give it to her because I didn't want it anymore. It

> helped

> > alot.

> >

> > Tammy

> >

> > Hi ,

> > >

> > > First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible

> night.

> > What's up

> > > with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

> > lingering

> > > cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo.

I

> > couldn't

> > > stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored

the

> > fact that

> > > my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

> > contributed

> > > to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more

> white

> > hot with

> > > rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

> > emotions

> > > surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that

because

> > of being a

> > > KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

> > really need!

> > > So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

> > >

> > > My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of

months

> > ago. I also

> > > came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

> > adults who

> > > were around to see what was happening to me but none of them

> tried

> > to help.

> > > I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

> > friendship and

> > > support would have made a huge difference in my life. However,

my

> > nada was

> > > very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and

made

> > it clear

> > > that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably

> kept

> > other

> > > adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

> > didn't try to

> > > help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that

> they

> > were not

> > > welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

> > really ever

> > > have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my

> stomach

> > with

> > > grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

> > Well, she

> > > postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38,

but

> > it finally

> > > came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her.

It

> > has been a

> > > real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

> > envious of

> > > people who have large loving families, or even small loving

> > families. They

> > > are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow

a

> > family and

> > > community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

> > terribly

> > > successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning

out

> > all the

> > > crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming

trusting

> > intimate

> > > friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel

any

> > pull that I

> > > would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

> > people her

> > > age).

> > >

> > > I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her

> crap.

> > So every

> > > time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

> > curse her and

> > > I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes

me

> > feel a

> > > little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even

when

> > she was a

> > > creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER!

And

> why

> > > wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to

> the

> > things

> > > she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

> > >

> > > Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

> > didn't have

> > > any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

> > experience

> > > of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or

> ending

> > up dead

> > > in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

> > determination. So,

> > > the same goes for you.

> > >

> > > I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

> > >

> > > Take care,

> > >

> > > Deirdre

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > From: sherby2k [mailto:sherby2k@y...]

> > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:16 PM

> > > To: ModOasis

> > > Subject: Role models?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > Posting tonight reminded me that there was something else I

> wanted

> > to

> > > ask this list. I'm reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " , and

> > there

> > > was a section on Role Models...the exercise talked about

> recalling

> > > the adults in my life who inspired me, or who taught me about

> love,

> > > or even just about what was normal in relationships. Well, I

came

> > up

> > > empty. It made me feel pretty broken, to realize that there was

> > > simply nobody in my life that I had ever looked up to, no one

> close

> > > enough to give me hope that not every family was like mine,

that

> > not

> > > everyone acted like nada. I had some friends, but their parents

> > were

> > > divorced, or alcoholics, or as crazy as nada. There were a few

> > adults

> > > in our church who I tried to form friendships with, but they

both

> > > distanced themselves from me for reasons that I don't know..

> maybe

> > > they knew the truth about my family and just didn't want to get

> > > involved, I don't know. It was painful and confusing.

> > >

> > > Does anyone else have this experience? Am I the only one who

> never

> > > had a role model growing up?

> > >

> > > My brothers all have/had role models, my older brother still

> talks

> > to

> > > his. The funny thing about that is that he's only two years

older

> > > than me, and I could have connected with her as well, but I got

> the

> > > feeling from her that one of us was quite enough for her.

> > >

> > > I realize now that I'm actually pretty bitter about it. I was

so

> > > desperately in need of *someone*, *anyone*, to look up to, to

run

> > to

> > > when things got tough, and I think I carried this with me into

my

> > > current life - some days I feel so incredibly lonely, like I

need

> > to

> > > be hugged and never let go. My husband gives me some of this

> > support,

> > > but I feel like nothing he or anyone else can do will ever be

> > enough,

> > > like I have this huge hole that a mother should have filled but

> > never

> > > did (I wonder how he can put up with me when I'm in these

moods).

> > >

> > > And the irony of that is, now I have lots of trouble getting

> close

> > to

> > > anyone, but especially to anyone significantly older than me. I

> > have

> > > a terrific mother-in-law but I don't open up to her and I don't

> > call

> > > her, she has even asked me to call her whenever I need to talk

> but

> > I

> > > don't, I'm just waiting for her to walk away from me, like

> everyone

> > > else did.

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Annette,

I do feel better today, and a lot of that has to do with the people on this

board. I used to feel really unlucky in life, like I must have done

something REALLY terrible in my previous life to have deserved my foo. But

the tide is turning and you guys are such a help. I have learned so much and

felt so supported and validated by the people here. I can't imagine how

difficult this process was for Edith before there was a ModOasis.

I really have a lot of hope for my future. First of all it was a tremendous

relief to find other KOs. This is the first time that I have felt normal! I

am normal for a KO, and my life experience is starting to make sense. As I

figure out my past and what it meant I am also finding that I am learning to

connect to other people in a more genuine way. I am also learning to spot

the people with whom I actually want to connect. There is so much to rebuild

inside of me and it is such hard work. I guess my strong sense of optimism

comes from the fact that now I am seeing positive change when before there

was nothing but frustration. Yes, the change is incremental but it is

absolutely better.

Deirdre

_____

From: sherby2k

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 9:37 PM

To: ModOasis

Subject: Re: Also Having A Horrible Night and Role Models?

Hi Deirdre,

I hope today is going better for you (mine certainly did).

It IS freeing, to be able to freely express anger towards our nadas.

I go back and forth, but I think I've gotten most of the white-hot

rage out of my system:). Let it all out, because you need to and

because it's NOT fair, what we had to endure, and it sucked so much

joy out of our lives and still continues to affect us. I think my

rage lessened once I decided to simply walk away from her and start

paying attention to myself, for a change. My rage was hurting me, and

nada certainly did enough damage in that respect.

As for the role models, although I'm sad that so many of us had to

endure without any support whatsoever, it's comforting to me to hear

that others understand the anger and disgust at all those people who,

if they had only shown a little kindness, maybe a little friendship,

could have helped us so much. On one level I give them some slack,

because most of them didn't know the truth about our family, and the

ones who did either stayed away or were driven away by nada, and if I

were them would I have wanted to face nada? But it still doesn't help

to know that, because I was still left to deal with it on my own. My

NPD dad just stood aside, let it all happen, backed nada all the way,

and so I had nobody.

And now, like you, I feel so alone sometimes. But is it any wonder

that we feel alone? In a way, it helps me to understand that side of

me, the part that feels horribly lonely in a crowded room, the part

that has so much trouble forming bonds with other people. My inner

child says, " I tried that already, it didn't work. "

But small steps, small steps. I actually answer the door when the

doorbell rings now, instead of hiding in the bedroom lol. One hermit

flea at a time, and maybe someday I won't feel so lonely.

Do you think that KOs ever get to a place where the lonely feeling

goes away completely? Just wondering.

Take care,

> Hi ,

>

> First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible night.

What's up

> with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a nasty

lingering

> cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my foo. I

couldn't

> stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored the

fact that

> my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they actually

contributed

> to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more white

hot with

> rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

emotions

> surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that because

of being a

> KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

really need!

> So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

>

> My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of months

ago. I also

> came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

adults who

> were around to see what was happening to me but none of them tried

to help.

> I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

friendship and

> support would have made a huge difference in my life. However, my

nada was

> very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and made

it clear

> that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I probably kept

other

> adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

didn't try to

> help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada that they

were not

> welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we didn't

really ever

> have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my stomach

with

> grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated me.

Well, she

> postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38, but

it finally

> came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with her. It

has been a

> real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I feel

envious of

> people who have large loving families, or even small loving

families. They

> are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to grow a

family and

> community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

terribly

> successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning out

all the

> crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming trusting

intimate

> friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel any

pull that I

> would be betraying her by being close to other adults (meaning

people her

> age).

>

> I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her crap.

So every

> time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada I

curse her and

> I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes me

feel a

> little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even when

she was a

> creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER! And why

> wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction to the

things

> she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off track.

>

> Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

didn't have

> any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived the

experience

> of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or ending

up dead

> in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

determination. So,

> the same goes for you.

>

> I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

>

> Take care,

>

> Deirdre

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

You're right, it is possible that someone in my family might have wanted to

help. Part of my healing has been recognizing that my nada's viewpoint of

the rest of my family is skewed and her version of events is not to be

trusted. Since she isolated me, her version of events is the only one that I

know. At some point soon I am going to need to start doing detective work

and figure out which of the things that she has told me are true, and which

are her twisted view of the world.

I hope you can be close to your daughter and grandchildren again. I really

can't imagine a greater pain than losing your relationship with your

daughter and grandchildren.

Take care,

Deirdre

_____

From: eventoftheseason

Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 4:26 PM

To: ModOasis

Subject: Re: Also Having A Horrible Night and Role Models?

> >

[Guest guest]

> > > >Hi Deirdre,

> > >

> > > I used to feel so much rage at my nada that I would lay there

at

> > > night and just sent out black waves of hatred and rage to her.

I

> > > wanted to give it to her because I didn't want it anymore. It

> > helped

> > > alot.

> > >

> > > Tammy

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > > >

> > > > First of all, to everyone here, I am also having a horrible

> > night.

> > > What's up

> > > > with that? I should be asleep trying to get better from a

nasty

> > > lingering

> > > > cold, but instead I lay in bed seething with rage about my

foo.

> I

> > > couldn't

> > > > stop going over in my mind the ways that they either ignored

> the

> > > fact that

> > > > my nada was mentally ill when I was growing up or they

actually

> > > contributed

> > > > to abusing me. Of course the more I thought about it the more

> > white

> > > hot with

> > > > rage I got. I could actually feel my body heating up from the

> > > emotions

> > > > surging through my body. THEN I started to get angry that

> because

> > > of being a

> > > > KO I was feeling these feelings instead of getting the rest I

> > > really need!

> > > > So, I gave up on sleep and sat at my computer.

> > > >

> > > > My therapist asked me the role model question a couple of

> months

> > > ago. I also

> > > > came up empty. And, I am also furious that there were so many

> > > adults who

> > > > were around to see what was happening to me but none of them

> > tried

> > > to help.

> > > > I am utterly disgusted by this fact. Just a small amount of

> > > friendship and

> > > > support would have made a huge difference in my life.

However,

> my

> > > nada was

> > > > very threatened by anyone who showed any interest in me, and

> made

> > > it clear

> > > > that she wanted me to jettison the relationship. So I

probably

> > kept

> > > other

> > > > adults at bay. Therefore I'm not sure if the adults around me

> > > didn't try to

> > > > help me or if they got subtle signals from me and/or nada

that

> > they

> > > were not

> > > > welcome. Also, she moved us at least once a year, so we

didn't

> > > really ever

> > > > have a community. The whole thing just makes me sick to my

> > stomach

> > > with

> > > > grief, and yes, loneliness. My mother so cleverly isolated

me.

> > > Well, she

> > > > postponed my inevitable rejection of her until the age of 38,

> but

> > > it finally

> > > > came. As of March 2003 I have not had a relationship with

her.

> It

> > > has been a

> > > > real relief. But, I realize how alone in the world I am. I

feel

> > > envious of

> > > > people who have large loving families, or even small loving

> > > families. They

> > > > are so wealthy and I feel so poor. I have really tried to

grow

> a

> > > family and

> > > > community of my own, but because of my fleas I have not been

> > > terribly

> > > > successful. It is only now that I am uncovering and cleaning

> out

> > > all the

> > > > crap from my nada that I think I have a hope of forming

> trusting

> > > intimate

> > > > friendships. Also, since I am free from her now I don't feel

> any

> > > pull that I

> > > > would be betraying her by being close to other adults

(meaning

> > > people her

> > > > age).

> > > >

> > > > I am still in the anger phase of dealing with my nada and her

> > crap.

> > > So every

> > > > time I think about what I have missed out on because of nada

I

> > > curse her and

> > > > I say to myself " I hate her, I HATE HER! " This actually makes

> me

> > > feel a

> > > > little better. I used to feel so obligated to love her even

> when

> > > she was a

> > > > creep, it is really freeing to openly admit that I HATE HER!

> And

> > why

> > > > wouldn't I hate her? Isn't that a perfectly natural reaction

to

> > the

> > > things

> > > > she has done to me? Hmmm, sorry , I've gotten off

track.

> > > >

> > > > Oh, I should add that my therapist was actually amazed that I

> > > didn't have

> > > > any role model relationships in my life yet I have survived

the

> > > experience

> > > > of being raised solely by a BP without becoming BP myself or

> > ending

> > > up dead

> > > > in a ditch! It is a testament to my inner character and

> > > determination. So,

> > > > the same goes for you.

> > > >

> > > > I hope you get a good night's sleep. I hope I do too.

> > > >

> > > > Take care,

> > > >

> > > > Deirdre

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > _____

> > > >

> > > > From: sherby2k [mailto:sherby2k@y...]

> > > > Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 9:16 PM

> > > > To: ModOasis

> > > > Subject: Role models?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > Posting tonight reminded me that there was something else I

> > wanted

> > > to

> > > > ask this list. I'm reading " Surviving a Borderline Parent " ,

and

> > > there

> > > > was a section on Role Models...the exercise talked about

> > recalling

> > > > the adults in my life who inspired me, or who taught me about

> > love,

> > > > or even just about what was normal in relationships. Well, I

> came

> > > up

> > > > empty. It made me feel pretty broken, to realize that there

was

> > > > simply nobody in my life that I had ever looked up to, no one

> > close

> > > > enough to give me hope that not every family was like mine,

> that

> > > not

> > > > everyone acted like nada. I had some friends, but their

parents

> > > were

> > > > divorced, or alcoholics, or as crazy as nada. There were a

few

> > > adults

> > > > in our church who I tried to form friendships with, but they

> both

> > > > distanced themselves from me for reasons that I don't know..

> > maybe

> > > > they knew the truth about my family and just didn't want to

get

> > > > involved, I don't know. It was painful and confusing.

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone else have this experience? Am I the only one who

> > never

> > > > had a role model growing up?

> > > >

> > > > My brothers all have/had role models, my older brother still

> > talks

> > > to

> > > > his. The funny thing about that is that he's only two years

> older

> > > > than me, and I could have connected with her as well, but I

got

> > the

> > > > feeling from her that one of us was quite enough for her.

> > > >

> > > > I realize now that I'm actually pretty bitter about it. I was

> so

> > > > desperately in need of *someone*, *anyone*, to look up to, to

> run

> > > to

> > > > when things got tough, and I think I carried this with me

into

> my

> > > > current life - some days I feel so incredibly lonely, like I

> need

> > > to

> > > > be hugged and never let go. My husband gives me some of this

> > > support,

> > > > but I feel like nothing he or anyone else can do will ever be

> > > enough,

> > > > like I have this huge hole that a mother should have filled

but

> > > never

> > > > did (I wonder how he can put up with me when I'm in these

> moods).

> > > >

> > > > And the irony of that is, now I have lots of trouble getting

> > close

> > > to

> > > > anyone, but especially to anyone significantly older than me.

I

> > > have

> > > > a terrific mother-in-law but I don't open up to her and I

don't

> > > call

> > > > her, she has even asked me to call her whenever I need to

talk

> > but

> > > I

> > > > don't, I'm just waiting for her to walk away from me, like

> > everyone

> > > > else did.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >